Team Fortress 2

[Wyntonian]

So, I found out that when steam says something will take 11 hours to download, it actually will. TF2 has been going 6 hours strong, and I'm wondering who else here in the Playground has played Team Fortress 2? How was it? Favorite class? Favorite map? Favorite hat?

Discuss!

[Mando Knight]

You might say the Playground plays a little TF2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253659)...

(It's the general Steam thread, but whenever a major update like Mann vs Machine or an apparently-hax item like the Red Tape Recorder hits, about 80% of the discussion turns to TF2.)

[Maxios]

It took me fifteen figgin' hours to download

[Wings of Peace]

Class wise I'm pretty fond of Soldier and Scout. Scout is just unfair in small 5v5 games. In larger game sizes he tends to lose his advantage. The Soldier I like just because there are very few completely impossible situations for him. The same is true for the Demoman I'm just not a very good Demoman.

[Jeivar]

My advice is; play against bots for a little bit to get a feel for the mechanics, classes and map layouts.
Medic is a good starting class, since it lets you contribute even as a total newbie. Just constantly heal and overheal your teammates and stay out of the line of fire. And try to save an Ubercharge for either a sentry gun or multiple enemies.

Aside from that, Heavy and Soldier are good starting combat classes. They take experience and tactics to play WELL, but they are straightforward and have no particular pitfalls. When playing Soldier, aim for an enemy's feet and try to hit him with the splash damage rather than try for a direct hit; The rockets are slow and easy to dodge if you see them coming.

And just remember: Everyone is a Spy.

As for my favorites, I play the payload maps almost exclusively, but now Mann vs Machine has come along and given me something different. I've clogged the most time as a Sniper and I have had some really good runs with him, though it varies pretty wildly. I once got 21 kills in a single life, with two other Snipers and a Spy trying to put me out of business.

[The-Mage-King]

And just remember: Everyone is a Spy.

Yep. Even that enemy demoman. He's a Spy who needs to infiltrate. :smalltongue:



Yeah, I play. Main Proro. There is a VERY small chance my team burns to death when I'm playing Pyro, mostly since my job is extinguishing them, setting everyone else on fire, then shooting what's left.


Of course, when I'm goofing around, I tend to play Stickyjumper Demopan.

:smalltongue:

[Eloel]

My favorite is a toss up between Engineer and Spy. Engineer because sentries rule if you are careful with placement and have support from your team. Spy because not everyone checks everyone else for spies :smallbiggrin:

[Aidan305]

Medic is my current favourite. Find a heavy a stand behind him and you can do no wrong.

[Kurgan]

Love the game, almost always a way to have fun in it.

Favorite class? Hard to say. I love playing heavy, medic, and pyro. Spy and sniper are fun. I suck at soldier [can never figure out rocket jumping], but he also has the best vanity items I think [cigar + some of the best hats in the game], so I am occasionally popping in as him for practice. I just cannot play scout or demo at all. Engie, depends on the level, some levels I love playing him, others not so much.

Currently working on making a Pinkie Pie themed Heavy: umbrella hat [obtained!], pink paint for it, and then a festive minigun to name the "Party Cannon" :smallbiggrin:

I just hate hate hate KOTH maps, and to a lesser extent control points. Perfectly symmetrical maps are not my favorites [exception: capture the flag], which both map types run exclusively. I groan, and sometimes disconnect when I see that the server I am on goes to these map types.

That said, payload, payload race, capture the flag, and attack/defense are fantastic, and I almost always have a jolly good time on those maps. For the most part, the worst of these map types are still better than the best of the Koth/control points.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I just hate hate hate KOTH maps, and to a lesser extent control points. Perfectly symmetrical maps are not my favorites [exception: capture the flag], which both map types run exclusively. I groan, and sometimes disconnect when I see that the server I am on goes to these map types.

Huh. I, on the other hand, love KOTH more than any other game mode and disconnect almost immediately when I'm put in a CTF server.

I wish they'd let you exclude certain game modes when you hit Random, though; sometimes I don't know what mode I want to play, as long as it's not one specific mode (usually CTF), which I inevitably get stuck in three times in a row.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Does anyone play on the Xbox?

[Mando Knight]

Does anyone play on the Xbox?

...TF2 on the consoles? When the Steam (both PC and Mac!) version is free and is the only one that's really ever updated (316 updates including 22 major updates, compared to 4 relatively minor patches)?

[The Dark Fiddler]

Does anyone play on the Xbox?

My girlfriend's younger brother does, because he's having a hard time switching over to computer controls and hasn't found a controller to connect to the computer yet. Like Mando said, though, it's pretty much a strictly inferior version, unless you for some reason cannot stand other people using the new weapons (it's not even about you using them yourself, because using the basic weapons is perfectly viable in most cases).

[Mando Knight]

My girlfriend's younger brother does, because he's having a hard time switching over to computer controls and hasn't found a controller to connect to the computer yet.Tell them to search for a wired XBox 360 controller. The drivers for the things are in all Windows computers and many PC games are compatible with it. You can use wireless ones, too, but as far as I know there's no way to connect them without using the overly expensive ($40-50 last I checked) special adapter (though there's probably some Bluetooth hack or something that lets you do it cheaper). Using the Play & Charge kit doesn't work, since apparently all the USB connection does then is charge the battery pack, not relay controller inputs.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/182-2909025-2139936?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=wired%20360%20controller&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20) has a few dozen wired ones available for relatively cheap. If he's using PS3 instead, you can also download the drivers for Sixaxis/Dualshock 3 controllers...

Like Mando said, though, it's pretty much a strictly inferior version, unless you for some reason cannot stand other people using the new weapons (it's not even about you using them yourself, because using the basic weapons is perfectly viable in most cases).
Even then, there's Vanilla servers, which let you experience all of the new and custom maps with none of the new items.

[Chromascope3D]

I find it odd that I hate playing healer in other games, yet have the most hours logged as medic. I guess when you're good at something, you just stay with it. :P

[Aidan305]

I find it odd that I hate playing healer in other games, yet have the most hours logged as medic. I guess when you're good at something, you just stay with it. :P

I think it's more that the medic is an enjoyable class to play in TF2. You actually feel as though you're contributing to the team effort right there on the front lines, assisting with kills and whatnot.

And they have a cool healing gun.

[Forbiddenwar]

I think it's more that the medic is an enjoyable class to play in TF2. You actually feel as though you're contributing to the team effort right there on the front lines, assisting with kills and whatnot.

And they have a cool healing gun.

While this is very true, it can also be the most frustrating class to play, as you are consistently target fired while trying to heal a suicidal team.

As for controllers, I don't think it's a good idea. There is no aim assist in the PC game, so if you are playing with a controller, it might seem like everyone is using a cheat, since they have keyboards and mice and you don't.

[Cikomyr]

I am a fairly decent Heavy and Medic myself. I had my shining moments. I usually am very deadly and precise with the Machinegun in choke points (I remember a 20-kill streak.. Good times).

Otherwise, I like to position myself cleverly. I remember saving my team's ass once in an Assault game when, instead of going ahead in the Blue team's exit, I remained in ambush close to the 1st checkpoint and gunned down the three scouts who got clever enough to sneak up there.

They never saw me coming...

Otherwise, medic is pretty fun. Pyro + Medic are a frightful team to Uber.

[SamBurke]

While this is very true, it can also be the most frustrating class to play, as you are consistently target fired while trying to heal a suicidal team.


Indeed... I usually only play medic when I can Skype-call a good friend. He plays a very strategic Heavy, and if I can communicate with him, I never get stranded by the person I'm supposed to get healing. THAT annoys me... if a guy wants to get healed, then, presumably, he's going to make sure that he doesn't stickjump into the middle of a crapfest, leaving the medic in prime sniping position. Blaaaaaaaaah.

Perhaps we should have a set way to put up our names and such, if we want to play with the friends list and such?

Steam Name: tao.iiiii, also going by jroddez4 (I can never figure out which shows up better on searches.
Classes: [Pyro], [Soldier], [Engineer]

For Pyro, I just recently got my Backburner back. It feels soooooo good, getting all those crits. In actuality, I play almost every class in a given game, doing whatever the team needs. I just play those classes most.

[Daer]

It is one of the best if not the best fps games around. Even though some of the updates (specially the one they boosted heavies to be lot faster and loose his weakness. ) have pushed me away from it i still play it time to time.. And mvm is lots of fun at leat on advanced and with friends.

i would suggest soldier for beginner it is simple, strong class even on stock items. Though medic is ok as long you are paranoid enough to keep watching your back and heal people around you and give them uber when needed.

try avoid spy and sniper for beginning unless your team is steam rolling anyway.

[Eloel]

Steam Name: tao.iiiii, also going by jroddez4 (I can never figure out which shows up better on searches.
Classes: [Pyro], [Soldier], [Engineer]

Steam Name: ozguno
Classes: All non-soldier in pvp, all non-spy in mvm

[Hiro Protagonest]

Don't have the game (but it's on the top of my list. It's free, after all), but I want to ask: how do you figure out who's a spy? Do you just watch your team to see if they heal allies/attack enemies, and if they don't, you shoot them and see what happens?

[SamBurke]

Don't have the game (but it's on the top of my list. It's free, after all), but I want to ask: how do you figure out who's a spy? Do you just watch your team to see if they heal allies/attack enemies, and if they don't, you shoot them and see what happens?

Let me set this up for you:

You're standing there, as a sniper, and you see a pyro walk up to you, spy-checkin like he's supposed to. What do you do?
YOU STAB IT. IT'S A SPY.

You're running around like nobody's business, as a scout, and you gotta stop at this dispenser. The engineer's just wailing away at it, repairing the thing from fire. What do you do?
YOU STAB IT. IT"S A SPY.

Imagine with me a heavy, stopping to eat his beloved sandvich. A medic walks up, and he's got an uber. What do you do?
YOU STAB IT. IT IS A FRIKIN SPY.

Not even kidding... well, maybe a bit.

If it moves, if it has a weapon or item of any sort, you attack it. If it hurts the thing, you attack it until it dies.

That sums up all of TF2's strategy, gentlemen.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/088/Gentlemen.jpg

[Teln]

Don't have the game (but it's on the top of my list. It's free, after all), but I want to ask: how do you figure out who's a spy? Do you just watch your team to see if they heal allies/attack enemies, and if they don't, you shoot them and see what happens?

There's no friendly fire in TF2, so Pyros tend to puff everybody with their flamethrowers--if the teammate lights up, he's an enemy Spy.

[Jeivar]

Don't have the game (but it's on the top of my list. It's free, after all), but I want to ask: how do you figure out who's a spy? Do you just watch your team to see if they heal allies/attack enemies, and if they don't, you shoot them and see what happens?

You learn to spot suspicious behavior; An ally running from the direction of the enemy base, a Scout running too slowly, someone manouvering as if to get behind you or an ally, an ally not contributing to a nearby fight, an ally moving out of your way when he sees you coming, etc. Just generally be mindful of the players around you and try not to expose yourself to an "ally" you haven't seen fire a shot.
Spies lose their disguise immediately if they shoot or stab, even if it misses.

Also, Heavies and Snipers are favorite backstab targets because the heavy is slow and generally focused on pushing forward, and the Sniper is usually busy staring down his scope at a very small area. Be mindful of this and remember to regularly glance behind you, especially if you are isolated and a Spy doesn't have to worry about your teammates.

[Wyntonian]

One of my crowning moments so far is when, as a medic, a Pyro from my team with just a sliver of health left came running at me mashing the call medic button. So, I shot him. He died. I felt remarkably accomplished.

[Vitruviansquid]

If you're serious about learning the game, play a lot of soldier and play him PvP. You'll learn more about most of the other classes by going up against them as a soldier than by actually playing those classes.

Just remember, the soldier might look like a long-range class because his rockets can go straight across the map and you risk hurting yourself when you fight in close quarters. But he's not. The only long-range classes in the game are Sniper and Demoman. Your job is to get up close to an enemy and ram two to four rockets under his feet.

[SamBurke]

If you're serious about learning the game, play a lot of soldier and play him PvP. You'll learn more about most of the other classes by going up against them as a soldier than by actually playing those classes.

Just remember, the soldier might look like a long-range class because his rockets can go straight across the map and you risk hurting yourself when you fight in close quarters. But he's not. The only long-range classes in the game are Sniper and Demoman. Your job is to get up close to an enemy and ram two to four rockets under his feet.

It's *Possible* to play the soldier as a sniper, but it is very, very, difficult, and not as useful as any other method... never thought about it that way, really. Thanks!

*nibbling note of dissent* You could equip the Wrangler and make the Sentry-gun a stablized sniper. */note done*

[Mando Knight]

Just remember, the soldier might look like a long-range class because his rockets can go straight across the map and you risk hurting yourself when you fight in close quarters. But he's not. The only long-range classes in the game are Sniper and Demoman. Your job is to get up close to an enemy and ram two to four rockets under his feet.
Demoman isn't really long-range unless you count spamming grenades downhill or detonating sticky bombs. With the Liberty Launcher and Direct Hit, the Soldier is better at long-range bombardment, though he still can't get the level of accuracy a Sniper can due to projectile flight time.

[Dublock]

One of my crowning moments so far is when, as a medic, a Pyro from my team with just a sliver of health left came running at me mashing the call medic button. So, I shot him. He died. I felt remarkably accomplished.

My all time favorite achievement to date is "FYI I am your Medic!"

[SamBurke]

My all time favorite achievement to date is "FYI I am your Medic!"

I really want to get that one...

[Mando Knight]

So far, I've only gotten one hat from playing MvM...

...and it was a normal random drop, rather than one of the special drops from Manning Up. As such, it was a normal ($7.49) hat (wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Your_Worst_Nightmare).

[SamBurke]

So far, I've only gotten one hat from playing MvM...

...and it was a normal random drop, rather than one of the special drops from Manning Up. As such, it was a normal ($7.49) hat (wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Your_Worst_Nightmare).

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET. I haven't ever gotten a hat as a drop... :(

[Mando Knight]

And then the next mission after I posted that, I got the Stealth Steeler (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Stealth_Steeler) by logging into a Mann Up mission literally moments before the last wave was won. I felt like a cheater. The hat was thus fitting...

...Also, I scrounged up enough metal to forge another hat, and I got the Crocodile Smile (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Crocodile_Smile). I think the item system wants me to play more Spy and Snoipah. Which, they are my less-played classes (http://tf2stats.net/player/MandoKnight)... (Sniper only has as much playtime as he does because I'm passable at him in DeGroot)

[SamBurke]

Question: if your best moments ARE ALL SOLDIER, why don't you play it more?

[Mando Knight]

Question: if your best moments ARE ALL SOLDIER, why don't you play it more?*Shifty Looks*

...Achievement server so I could get his milestones out of the way. The best "Points Captured" for Soldier was weirdly legit, though. Was pushing the Cart and was fighting a moronic team and so I didn't die at all.

You can tell it was an achievement server by the fact that the best Kills and Dominations were 34 and 7, respectively. That doesn't happen on a normal server except by fluke or playing against a team orders of magnitude below your level.

[Squark]

Just tried Mann Vs. Machine for the first time, and man, was it a blast. Took a few tries to get through the rounds, but the PUG I was in did eventually get through the easier match.

[SamBurke]

*Shifty Looks*

...Achievement server so I could get his milestones out of the way. The best "Points Captured" for Soldier was weirdly legit, though. Was pushing the Cart and was fighting a moronic team and so I didn't die at all.

You can tell it was an achievement server by the fact that the best Kills and Dominations were 34 and 7, respectively. That doesn't happen on a normal server except by fluke or playing against a team orders of magnitude below your level.

I need to find one of those. I played on empty servers to do it before... where do you find actual achievement ones?

[Mando Knight]

You'll need to search for servers with "achievement" in the map name. Some of these are simply idle servers for people who like to get the drops without playing the game, however (Manning Up with friends and Supply Vouchers is a better but more expensive way, IMO... if six people fully cash in, it's $2.98 for seven clean items, possibly including MvM hats...).

[Neftren]

I need to find one of those. I played on empty servers to do it before... where do you find actual achievement ones?

Filter in the server browser for prefix: achievement_

achievement_idle_noglass is a pretty good way to get the kill achievements done. For more specialized achievements, you'll want to try some other servers.

[SamBurke]

Filter in the server browser for prefix: achievement_

achievement_idle_noglass is a pretty good way to get the kill achievements done. For more specialized achievements, you'll want to try some other servers.

Sounds like a perfect way to get my weapons to high levels.... Server clearing on all of them, here we come!

[Lhurgyof]

I don't really have s favorite class- I try to play what my team needs.

In other words, I don't play Sniper often. :smalltongue:

[GolemsVoice]

I love Medic and Heavy, they're both pretty straightforward classes, and the the Heavy can accomplish a lot by himself even if the rest of the team are idiots, which tends to happen with annoying frequency. Just stand somewhere and blast away with your minigun. Combined with a medic you can become and unstoppable force capable of truly amazing feats.

Medic, on the other hand, can turn, say, an assault from slaughter to stampede, but only if the teammates know what they're doing, which, often enough, they don't, which is just frustrating.

[Fan]

Just as a note for everyone who trades / buys keys from the store from time to time to buy items they like.

I'm selling keys at a 1.30 USD, currency conversion fees are on you guys, a big apology to our friends in Austrailia and Europe, but Paypal is a nasty witch of a currency system, even though your currency is technically more.

Alternatively, everything in my backpack (http://tf2b.com/tf2/76561198025289277)is for sale, minus the balloonicorn, the fast learner, the jefe, and my capacitors (because my name wouldn't be worth much without the largest collection of Capacitors in the game. =V).

Not sure if anyone has unusuru monies here. XP

I also play Scout / Soldier. In MVM with my sandman with the slow and mark for death on the mad milk / sandman respectively and from there I use vanilla scatter.

On Soldier, Beggar's Bazooka + Buff Banner + Escape Plan, simply because SO MUCH FIRE POWER, with horde play all but necessitating a spread, you just do so much AOE damage with the buff banner it's ridiculous. Though ammo IS a problem, but rocket jumping to an ammo pack is usually more than enough to keep you loaded.

[Cikomyr]

The Heavy is, indeed, straightforward to use from the get go. Point and shoot. But you never realized a Heavy's true power if you don't understand smart positioning and player anticipation.

Thing is, you are slow to move, and slow to shoot. Which is why you always need to be a step ahead of the other team. Know where to be, where to face, and when to start rotating your gun for insta-shoot.

I think I get it inherently after about half a game (when it's been long since last time I played). I always end up in the top 2 of points of my teams, except if I camp defensive position to win the game. Then again, I like my team to win more than I like to be top ranking :smallbiggrin:

[Wyntonian]

In every game so far, I've played a medic. I kinda like it. Maybe I'll branch out, try an engineer or a demoman or something, but medics are pretty cool.

[Dark Elf Bard]

I'm not sure how to build as and engineer...

[Tectonic Robot]

Cycle to your build tool 'weapon', DEB. Then just choose the number and put the building down. ^^

I'm on Steam as 'Tectonic Robot' if anyone wants to be friends with me!

[SamBurke]

In every game so far, I've played a medic. I kinda like it. Maybe I'll branch out, try an engineer or a demoman or something, but medics are pretty cool.

And everybody loves you! And *generally* protects you, if they're smart.



Cycle to your build tool 'weapon', DEB. Then just choose the number and put the building down. ^^

I'm on Steam as 'Tectonic Robot' if anyone wants to be friends with me!
Sadly, I don't have a premium account. However, you can find *me* with jroddez4 or tao.iiii, I believe. Avvie should be the reciever of a gun.

[Wyntonian]

Oh. Since everyone else is doing this, I might as well too. My Steam account is Wyntonian. I don't have tons of time to play, and I'm going back to school shortly, so that'll be even less. But, yeah. Playgrounders are good folk, I'd love to mess around in a game with some of you guys and gals.

[SamBurke]

Oh. Since everyone else is doing this, I might as well too. My Steam account is Wyntonian. I don't have tons of time to play, and I'm going back to school shortly, so that'll be even less. But, yeah. Playgrounders are good folk, I'd love to mess around in a game with some of you guys and gals.

Plus there are achievements for having friends on a server. XD.

[Volthawk]

My main class is Medic, but I also sometimes go for Heavy or sometimes Pyro, but I do have a habit of switching around with classes a bit (well, apart from a few I barely ever play). As for Steam name, I'm Volthawk, and I'm usually up for playing whenever I'm online on Steam.

[Dark Elf Bard]

I'm making a Steam account soon.. tell you guys my name when I do.

[super dark33]

As a sniper, once you get the razorback use it all the time.
Even at MvM levels with no spys.
EVEN at Degroot keep as defender.
ESPECIALY at Degroot keep as defender.

[Dark Elf Bard]

What's a razorback?

[SamBurke]

I'm making a Steam account soon.. tell you guys my name when I do.

Cool! Steam is a great game system anyway...

[Volthawk]

What's a razorback?

A Sniper item that protects from a spy backstabbing you.

[super dark33]

What's a razorback?


This is the razorback. (http://www.teamfortress.com/sniper_vs_spy/day03_english.htm)

[SamBurke]

A Sniper item that protects from a spy backstabbing you.

Sadly, only once.

Still, whenever there are spies, it's worth it.

[pffh]

No, no, no, no. Never ever use the razorback it's a waste of a slot. And so is the machina.

The jarate and the SMG are both much better and much more useful then the razorback ever will just don't stand there like an idiot with your eye glued to the scope and you'll be fine. Besides the only time you'll ever be shooting a full charge is at an overhealed heavy the rest of the time it's always better to quick scope and keep dodging enemy snipers. Also the Machina is a straight downgrade from any of the other rifles.

And if we are sharing steam thingies and want to play on the EU side I'm pffh from the past future and my main classes are sniper and heavy but recently I've really been getting into the soldier which is strange since I used to hate him.

[Teln]

A Sniper item that protects from a spy backstabbing you.

So they shoot you instead. Any Spy dumb enough to backstab into a Razorback deserves his upcoming trip back to the spawn.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Okay, I unsta;;ed Steam and it's in my Applications now. I clicked "Play TF2." "Yes, I have Steam." But then it just opened an endless amount of blank tabs saying file://steam.run.

Anyone know what's up?

[Cikomyr]

What's a razorback?

Whats a paladin?

[Eloel]

No, no, no, no. Never ever use the razorback it's a waste of a slot. And so is the machina.

The jarate and the SMG are both much better and much more useful then the razorback ever will just don't stand there like an idiot with your eye glued to the scope and you'll be fine. Besides the only time you'll ever be shooting a full charge is at an overhealed heavy the rest of the time it's always better to quick scope and keep dodging enemy snipers. Also the Machina is a straight downgrade from any of the other rifles.

And if we are sharing steam thingies and want to play on the EU side I'm pffh from the past future and my main classes are sniper and heavy but recently I've really been getting into the soldier which is strange since I used to hate him.

While I agree with your remark on Razorback, I love Machina. At full charge, a body shot kills anything but a heavy or a soldier. You penetrate targets. Why kill 1 enemy when you can kill 2? (just position right) Also, body shots are alot easier than headshots for obvious reasons.
(also, an engineer AND a sentry? yes please)

[SamBurke]

So they shoot you instead. Any Spy dumb enough to backstab into a Razorback deserves his upcoming trip back to the spawn.

Except for the fact that you can now hear them. Also, getting shot isn't an insta kill with any Spy weapon.

[pffh]

While I agree with your remark on Razorback, I love Machina. At full charge, a body shot kills anything but a heavy or a soldier. You penetrate targets. Why kill 1 enemy when you can kill 2? (just position right) Also, body shots are alot easier than headshots for obvious reasons.
(also, an engineer AND a sentry? yes please)

But you shouldn't be firing fully charged*. A quickscope + bodyshot will kill anyone but a heavy and two quick scopes will take care of that and those are quicker then waiting for that charge. Another drawback of the machina is the fact that it gives away your position and that means that if you miss or your target has friends or even if just a random enemy sniper spots the trail you're a dead man.

Also while you are getting to the right position for the machina and then waited for that charge I've probably gotten off a dozen shots and half a dozen kills (numbers may be slightly exaggerated but not by that much)

Now if it gave the damage boost for just being scoped and not having to be fully charged or could fire no scoped then yeah it might be situationally useful but as it is right now it's just not worth it.


Except for the fact that you can now hear them. Also, getting shot isn't an insta kill with any Spy weapon.

But they can two or three shot you and if you are, like most razorback snipers, glued to the scope you won't have time to react against a halfway decent spy before you hit the ground.

*There are situations where a fully charged shot is useful such as against an overhealed heavy or a minisentry.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Okay, I installed Steam and it's in my Applications now. I clicked "Play TF2." "Yes, I have Steam." But then it just opened an endless amount of blank tabs saying file://steam.run.

Anyone know what's up?

??????????

[pffh]

??????????


Have you tried verifying your install?

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=2037-QEUH-3335

[Dark Elf Bard]

Yup, same thing happened.

[pffh]

Are you opening TF2 through steam?

[SamBurke]

Are you opening TF2 through steam?

Indeed. Use Steam to go to your Library, then look at your specific game, and just click "Play."

If that doesn't work, then you have a number of options, which PC-savvy people will know. At worst, you have to Reinstall TF2 (which I've done... twice... GRGHFFFGFGGGFHHFHFFGGGG), but it shouldn't come to that.

[Kurgan]

In every game so far, I've played a medic. I kinda like it. Maybe I'll branch out, try an engineer or a demoman or something, but medics are pretty cool.

Engie is a fun class to play, just be warned, if you want to be effective, you need to know the level. Knowing the level lets you place your sentries in good places and allows you to move your teleporters farther forwards or back depending on where spawn moves in short order. Also, attack anybody who walks towards your nest, it might be a spy.

Oh, and on spies, right clicking before you deploy an item rotates it, use this on your teleporter exits so that when you go through it, your back is facing the wall. Sometimes spies will go for a backstab or two if they can before sapping a teleporter.

[The Dark Fiddler]

You can tell it was an achievement server by the fact that the best Kills and Dominations were 34 and 7, respectively. That doesn't happen on a normal server except by fluke or playing against a team orders of magnitude below your level.

Kinda reminds me of the time I got into an empty payload server, and played Scout for gits and shiggles. Ended up with 32 points riding the cart straight to the goal, and now it's mocking me by being my most points on the loading screen... but Heavy is close, with 30 points. Still, I wish I could purge that game from my record, because it's so annoying to see a class I never play have the most points in a life.

If anybody really wants to add me, I'm thedarkfiddler on Steam as well. I only play occasionally on Wednesdays and Thursdays, and I'm likely to forget who you are if I add you, and therefore not invite you to a game, but I'll probably join one you're in if you ever invite me. If not, that's cool.

[Squark]

I'm sir_dwar_of_ebberon on steam.

Hmm... Would anyone be interested in organizing an all GITP MvM game? It'd be nice to be able to pre-plan one of those, and doing it with playgrounders would be that much more fun, anyway.

[Forbiddenwar]

I'm sir_dwar_of_ebberon on steam.

Hmm... Would anyone be interested in organizing an all steam MvM game? It'd be nice to be able to pre-plan one of those, and doing it with playgrounders would be that much more fun, anyway.

it's been tried, but the time zones make it difficult. I'm all for an attempt, either Mann up or boot camp. I play a good medic.

[Kurgan]

Kinda reminds me of the time I got into an empty payload server, and played Scout for gits and shiggles. Ended up with 32 points riding the cart straight to the goal, and now it's mocking me by being my most points on the loading screen... but Heavy is close, with 30 points. Still, I wish I could purge that game from my record, because it's so annoying to see a class I never play have the most points in a life.
.

Yeah, reminds me of the time I ended up on an empty payload server and played soldier for giggles. Decided to do ride the cart achievement, and just sat on top of cart for entire level. Ended up with 56 points, kind of outshining everything else I have done in game, with one of my worst classes...still, sets a nice bar to beat with other classes, to see if I can make it.

[Fan]

I've played through MvM a couple times with Kurgan, Trix, and some others.

I'm happy to be the one guy with a squad surplus whenever that does happen. =V

[GolemsVoice]

I'll give you my Steam name as soon as I get to my Steam-PC, I'd love to play some games with you guys.

[Forbiddenwar]

If you add me as a friend and you are not friends with anyone else on my list or not in the GITP steam group (which is public) then I assume you want to trade, and if I have nothing to trade, I assume you're responding to an old trade (which has happened to me).

In short, join the Steam Playground Group. You can even do announcements like "Looking for players for a MvM match"

[Dark Elf Bard]

Okay, I got a Steam account... I'm darkelfbard.

What's MvM?

[Wyntonian]

What's MvM?

Mann v. Machine. I haven't played it, but I believe you play co-op, with other humans, against bots. I'm sure there's special drops and hats and whatnot.

[SamBurke]

Okay, I got a Steam account... I'm darkelfbard.

What's MvM?

Mann vs. Machine. To translate, "The only Horde Mode on a game, ever, that's actually worth playing.*" Basically, it's TF2 with Tower Defense. The enemies come in through a gate, and try to get a bomb to the other side. Sound boring? WRONNNG! If you can kill an enemy, they drop some money, which you collect... what do you use it for? To upgrade your weapons! Get health on kills, better speed, more health, more damage, resistance to bullets or fire or bombs, better reloading, more shots, and a number of other special abilities. If you can complete an entire game (it's actually quite a challenge, even for a good and communicative team), then you get a special reward for all future MvM games: A canteen, which has its own abilities, such as cheap insta-ubers, crit-charges, health kits, ammunition kits, and a number of other things.

There are a TON of different enemy types, making it as challenging and unique as ever. You are absolutely required to work together with your team. If you don't, you are dead, and fast.



*I've heard that ME3's is OK, but it's not as good as anything Valve did. Period.

[Squark]

What's really great about MvM is how they've made sure every class has something to contribute. Sure, Demoman, Soldier, Heavy, and Engineer are strong choices, but Pyros can upgrade their airblast to control the bomb (and Double damage on the flamethrower is hillarious), Scouts are better at collecting money, respawn instantly, can upgrade mad milk to slow enemies in addition to it's normal effects, and the sandman's baseball can mark enemies for death (and you can hold 7 baseballs at once!), Medics can share their power-ups with the person they're healing (Which makes it theoretically possible to give someone invulnerability and all crits at the same time), Sniper rifles now penetrate through enemies (and Jarate can slow enemies), and Spies can use their sappers to disable groups of robots (Plus, the robots don't spy check).

[Dark Elf Bard]

I dunno, if it's a horde game it seems only the Heavy, Demoman, Pyro, and possibly the Soldier could do well. The other classes are all mostly single target.

Who's Mann?

Also MOVIES (http://www.teamfortress.com/movies.php)! These are so great. My favorite is the medic, or maybe the spy.

[SamBurke]

I dunno, if it's a horde game it seems only the Heavy, Demoman, Pyro, and possibly the Soldier could do well. The other classes are all mostly single target.

Who's Mann?

Also MOVIES (http://www.teamfortress.com/movies.php)! These are so great. My favorite is the medic, or maybe the spy.

Valve is amazing, aren't they? My favs are the Spy and the Pyro.... Scouts' got some great lines, though.

The others have uses, but they're lesser. Snipers are about the worst, though if they got obscene damage, they'd be great for taking out the bigger enemies.

Spy-sappers can be EPIC awesome if done correctly, though Pyros might still do the jobs better.

Medics are Must-haves, to keep the people from having to deal with respawn times.

Engie gets a ton of great things. You NEED one in all games, for the teleporter, health and ammo regen, as well as TWO Sentry guns. If he's got the wrangler, that's killer good too.

As to who "Mann" is, that requires a lot of backstory into the company and the game and... lolnope.

Mann's the guy who owns the major company selling supplies. Two brothers (maybe a third?) inherited each half of their father's company years ago, and made two separate ones. They fight each other. I *think*, somebody correct me if that all si wrong.

[Volthawk]

Mann's the guy who owns the major company selling supplies. Two brothers (maybe a third?) inherited each half of their father's company years ago, and made two separate ones. They fight each other. I *think*, somebody correct me if that all si wrong.

The third brother is the man behind the robot army. He vanished right after he was born, kidnapped by a bird and intelligent and speaking right out of the womb. He returned, killed the two brothers and is now trying to take out Mann. Co, and since the mercenaries you play as were hired by the two dead brothers, and now that job's gone, they're now fighting against the robots.

[SamBurke]

The third brother is the man behind the robot army. He vanished right after he was born, kidnapped by a bird and intelligent and speaking right out of the womb. He returned, killed the two brothers and is now trying to take out Mann. Co, and since the mercenaries you play as were hired by the two dead brothers, and now that job's gone, they're now fighting against the robots.

That was the impression I was getting.

[Dark Elf Bard]

The engineer movie is pretty sweet too.

And they both made robots? Why are the mercs fighting the robs then?

[SamBurke]

The engineer movie is pretty sweet too.

And they both made robots? Why are the mercs fighting the robs then?

Because they're defending Mann Co from being destroyed. Also, apparently, they'd die otherwise.

Or something.

It's a game that makes fun of the minimal justifications of shooter plotlines by having EVEN LESS justification.

[Mando Knight]

I dunno, if it's a horde game it seems only the Heavy, Demoman, Pyro, and possibly the Soldier could do well. The other classes are all mostly single target.

Engie gets a ton of great things. You NEED one in all games, for the teleporter, health and ammo regen, as well as TWO Sentry guns. If he's got the wrangler, that's killer good too.
Engineer is the king of MvM. So much so that a specific enemy was created to counter his power. Two, if you also count the Spybot.

Mann's the guy who owns the major company selling supplies. Two brothers (maybe a third?) inherited each half of their father's company years ago, and made two separate ones. They fight each other. I *think*, somebody correct me if that all si wrong.
Close.

The brothers, Redmond and Blutarch, were cut out of Mann Co. by their father Zephaniah Mann because they encouraged him to spend his wealth on worthless gravel pits in the middle of the desert. He gave the lands to them to share and Mann Co. to his boistrous aide, Barnabas Hale. The brothers continue to squabble over their worthless land (they think gravel's worth more than gold) while Barnabas's just-as-boistrous descendent (likely grandson) SAXTON HALE (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Saxton_Hale) sells Mann Co. weapons (and hats and trinkets) to the mercenaries they hire. The brothers were kept alive by immortality machines, allowing them to live well over a hundred years after the death of Zephaniah (they were thirty-ish at the time, and had never put in an honest day's work).

The third brother, Grey Mann, absconded by an eagle at birth, recently appeared to his brothers, murdered them both, and created an army of robots to take Mann Co. back from Hale. Grey perfected a miniaturized, spine-mounted version of the not-dying machine (unless Radigan did that towards the end of his Australium-fueled fervor) and looks fit as a fiddle, if a bit wrinkled and grey-haired.

If this all sounds too ridiculous, go watch Meet the Pyro again and seriously evaluate whether you want to continue playing. If this sounds intriguing, here's links to the wiki's condensation of the storyline (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Storyline) and links to the comics (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Comics) where this is developed.

[Archonic Energy]

Engineer is the king of MvM. So much so that a specific enemy was created to counter his power. Two, if you also count the Spybot.

Close.

The brothers, Redmond and Blutarch, were cut out of Mann Co. by their father Zephaniah Mann because they encouraged him to spend his wealth on worthless gravel pits in the middle of the desert. He gave the lands to them to share and Mann Co. to his boistrous aide, Barnabas Hale. The brothers continue to squabble over their worthless land (they think gravel's worth more than gold) while Barnabas's just-as-boistrous descendent (likely grandson) SAXTON HALE (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Saxton_Hale) sells Mann Co. weapons (and hats and trinkets) to the mercenaries they hire. The brothers were kept alive by immortality machines, allowing them to live well over a hundred years after the death of Zephaniah (they were thirty-ish at the time, and had never put in an honest day's work).

The third brother, Grey Mann, absconded by an eagle at birth, recently appeared to his brothers, murdered them both, and created an army of robots to take Mann Co. back from Hale. Grey perfected a miniaturized, spine-mounted version of the not-dying machine (unless Radigan did that towards the end of his Australium-fueled fervor) and looks fit as a fiddle, if a bit wrinkled and grey-haired.

If this all sounds too ridiculous, go watch Meet the Pyro again and seriously evaluate whether you want to continue playing. If this sounds intriguing, here's links to the wiki's condensation of the storyline (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Storyline) and links to the comics (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Comics) where this is developed.

ah yes... TF2... the only game where being attacked by a robot horde is the LEAST unbeleivable thing to happen :smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

ah yes... TF2... the only game where being attacked by a robot horde is the LEAST unbeleivable thing to happen :smallbiggrin:

Well, coming off of the Horseless Headless HorseMann and MONOCULUS!, it's a little hard for it to get less believable.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Sniper actually is rather useful in MvM. I find piss gun with fully upgraded jarate is most effective. Fast charging mini crits that also slow the enemy? Oh yeah. What is so great about mini crits is that it does more than the 35% bonus damage. It removes damage fall off! So heavy's mid range 6-8 damage gets upped to around 13 per bullet. With the piss gun, you can stay back and keep dangerous giant robots covered in piss with little danger to self and still do some respectable damage.

The major down side is that you can't effectively take out large groups by yourself and much like scout, your effectiveness at the beginning is a bit low.

[SamBurke]

Sniper actually is rather useful in MvM. I find piss gun with fully upgraded jarate is most effective. Fast charging mini crits that also slow the enemy? Oh yeah. What is so great about mini crits is that it does more than the 35% bonus damage. It removes damage fall off! So heavy's mid range 6-8 damage gets upped to around 13 per bullet. With the piss gun, you can stay back and keep dangerous giant robots covered in piss with little danger to self and still do some respectable damage.

The major down side is that you can't effectively take out large groups by yourself and much like scout, your effectiveness at the beginning is a bit low.

Well, I'll give the Sniper that its usefulness corresponds to your skill. IF you're good, have a Sydney Sleeper, and can position yourself right, you can provide some neat buffs.

Scout is also a difficult class, but the right weapons can make it work.

[Mando Knight]

much like scout, your effectiveness at the beginning is a bit low.

...The Scout is fantastic. Run in, throw Mann Milk, swing your Fan about, and collect money. That'll start the fight, and you don't need to buy anything for the Fan if you intend on using the Sandman later. You can end up with like 400 points of overheal. At the beginning, no other class will want to get in as close as necessary to grab all the cash needed to ensure that you win later on.

[Thufir]

Actually, Scout isn't that hard once you've got going, and is very useful. Because you have a bigger money-collection radius, and the money heals you (including overheal, which can rack up quite a lot), combined with the Scout's usual speed and dodging ability, you can do a fair amount of damage and just stay alive collecting all the money.

[Squark]

I'd break it down the team roughly like this;


-Heavy AOE Hitter (Heavy, Soldier, Demoman, or Pyro)
-Heavy AOE Hitter
-Engineer
-Medic or Engineer 2
-Heavy AOE Hitter or other class (Engineer works, and a Combat medic is fine too)
-Other class

Scout, Spy and Sniper aren't nesacarily worse than the others, they just require more thought to play, and aren't as straightforward.

[Forbiddenwar]

I'd break it down the team roughly like this;


-Heavy AOE Hitter (Heavy, Soldier, Demoman, or Pyro)
-Heavy AOE Hitter
-Engineer
-Medic or Engineer 2
-Heavy AOE Hitter or other class (Engineer works, and a Combat medic is fine too)
-Other class


Scout is required. IMHO, there is no point in playing a match without a scout.
Ideal teams seems to be: Medic, Scout, Engie, Heavy, Other heavy class (high damage, high HP) (another heavy, soldier or demo), other light class (pyro, sniper, spy) I like to see the last two slots be a demo for kritz stickies on the tanks and a pyro, for clutch airblasting and kritzing for scout bots)

[SamBurke]

Actually, Scout isn't that hard once you've got going, and is very useful. Because you have a bigger money-collection radius, and the money heals you (including overheal, which can rack up quite a lot), combined with the Scout's usual speed and dodging ability, you can do a fair amount of damage and just stay alive collecting all the money.

I think I'll play scout... IF I CAN EVER GET INTO A SERVER!

Tips on that, folks?

[Wyntonian]

Kritz? What?

[Squark]

Kritz? What?

The Kritzkrieg. It's an alternate medigun for the medic that provides auto-crit to the person you're healing instead of invincibility when you use the ubercharge, and generates ubercharge more quickly.

How long are you waiting for queues, SamBurke?

[SamBurke]

The Kritzkrieg. It's an alternate medigun for the medic that provides auto-crit to the person you're healing instead of invincibility when you use the ubercharge, and generates ubercharge more quickly.

How long are you waiting for queues, SamBurke?

Kritzkrieg is often looked down on in normal servers because the Uber is perceived as more useful. However, on a server where everyone's trying to deal damage, it can quickly become the best option.

I can get into a queue within 15 or so minutes, the problem is after that, when I'm loading the maps. It fails every time with some sort of "too many requests" message... I forget the exact wording. Basically, my internet drops every now and again, not toooooooo often, but even just a few times a day could mess things up. Thoughts?

[Scowling Dragon]

Well after hearing how bloody awesome the game was I decided to try it out after steam came to the mac....

And my god was the game overhyped. The way it was described was some kind of RTS except a shooter and the most amazing FPS ever.

And it was alright. It was better then most shooters but it suffered the same flaws as most of them in that the whole mess was a giant fluster****. Its not BAD. Just overhyped.

Things die just way too fast, with barely any reaction time at all, leaving little room for strategy other then "SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!". The classes had all unique abilities but allot of their use at the time just depended on luck. Sometimes playing the Spy is easy as cake, and other times you get giant clusters of people shooting wildly hitting you 90% of the time not through tactics or strategy but blind luck.

And thats my main gripe with the game. So much of it depends on blind luck (Wasting the awesomely crafted classes). I would at the very least double all the characters HP to allow for more thinking time.

[SamBurke]

Well after hearing how bloody awesome the game was I decided to try it out after steam came to the mac....

And my god was the game overhyped. The way it was described was some kind of RTS except a shooter and the most amazing FPS ever.

And it was alright. It was better then most shooters but it suffered the same flaws as most of them in that the whole mess was a giant fluster****. Its not BAD. Just overhyped.

Things die just way too fast, with barely any reaction time at all, leaving little room for strategy other then "SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!". The classes had all unique abilities but allot of their use at the time just depended on luck. Sometimes playing the Spy is easy as cake, and other times you get giant clusters of people shooting wildly hitting you 90% of the time not through tactics or strategy but blind luck.

And thats my main gripe with the game. So much of it depends on blind luck (Wasting the awesomely crafted classes). I would at the very least double all the characters HP to allow for more thinking time.

1. Agreed that it can be overhyped. I don't think it's "the best FPS ever", as I believe that RPGFPS is a much better game (ME3 et all).
2. Too little HP. I think some classes do need a buff. However, I think that it's more because of point #3.
3. My problem with the game is mainly my inexperience with it, and shooters in general. If you get into decent servers, start to learn the lingo and the various tactics people have thought up, then you'll be able to do better.
4. This isn't a game about strategy. Well, I lied. The main experience isn't. COOP, though, is exactly what you may look for. If you play it smart, you survive for much longer, due to the de-buffed attacks of swarming enemies.

[The Dark Fiddler]

And my god was the game overhyped. The way it was described was some kind of RTS except a shooter and the most amazing FPS ever.

...why would anybody describe it as an RTS? Because it's not, not at all.

Anyway, I agree with the assertion that scout is necessary for MvM; I've seen, too many times, a team without a scout NOT go for the money (of course, I die when I try to pick up as much as I can), and then we can't upgrade to keep up with the waves. The tank plows through, or we manage to get it just before it drops the bomb... only for the horde of robo-heavies to come charging in.

[Mando Knight]

Kritzkrieg is often looked down on in normal servers because the Uber is perceived as more useful. However, on a server where everyone's trying to deal damage, it can quickly become the best option.
Kritz is the only way to go in MvM: It finishes off Tanks and Giants faster, natively charges faster, and Kritz + Über canteen is cheaper than Über + Kritz canteen.

2. Too little HP. I think some classes do need a buff. However, I think that it's more because of point #3.
3. My problem with the game is mainly my inexperience with it, and shooters in general. If you get into decent servers, start to learn the lingo and the various tactics people have thought up, then you'll be able to do better.
It is mostly inexperience. Experienced Medic/Engineers can make experienced Heavies last forever, classes with less than 175 base HP shouldn't be standing out in the open anyway, and those places where it's already hard to break a defensive line would be even worse if the HP was set higher.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'm watching a TF2 Let's Play series (about a half hour given for each class, then some other stuff), and strategy does exist - but it's class-oriented, not team-oriented.

Snipers want to get up on things like water towers and just camp out there, using their sidearm or melee weapon on anyone that comes up to them (even friendlies - scratch that, especially friendlies, 'cause friendlies don't have much reason to be up there, but spies do), or grab the Huntsman and act sorta like a Scout.

Soldiers can Rocket Jump around, shooting missiles into the fray, or they can equip the Direct Hit and be more Sniper-like.

Medics can pick a Heavy and stick with it, occasionally waving the heals around if anyone else gets close by, or they can just go through the chaos healing and shooting.

Scouts can flank/ambush easily with their speed and jumping power, or they can equip things like the Sandman and Mad Milk to act as debuffers/harassers.

Heavies in open areas want to get their back up against a wall, and in corridors, they can really dominate with their minigun (just remember to get ammo pickups or stay near a dispenser).

Engineers, regardless of strategy, want to get to a place that's great for a teleporter (say, inside a corridor so that they enemy Demoman can't just plant a bunch of stickybombs on the doorway), and then find a good place to put their dispenser and sentry. Then they can either go off and help on the front lines (which can be good if you placed your buildings in different areas), or they can stay behind and protect their stuff (which is practically mandatory if you placed it all down right next to each other, unless you've got other engineers on your team and they place their sentry guns next to yours).

Some Spies prefer invisibility, others prefer disguise. Don't underestimate your revolver, backstabbing isn't the only way you can kill. Also, most experienced players pull the trigger at the first hint of a cloaked or disguised spy - some, like Engineers who stay with their stuff, just shoot everyone that comes through the teleporter, or even near one of the Engineer's buildings!

Demomen are sort of a balance between defensive and offensive. With the Chargin' Targe equipped, you are undeniably an attacker, but you can easily be one of the most powerful defenders, if not the most powerful defender, with the Scottish Resistance equipped.

Cannot comment on the Pyros, I have no idea how they work beyond "shoot flames, and sometimes airblast burning allies".

[Scowling Dragon]

Anyway, most shooters aren't my kind of thing. I liked Metroid Prime Hunters (and all the Metroid series, But its not really focusing on the shooting) because the healthbars where pretty high. Yes it was not very diverse and the abilities where very similar, but at least I could think and react.

I just can't play longer then for 45 minuted. Its just so monotonous. With so little time to react, with things so chaotic I feel like Im not doing much. Its just run and shoot and die with little input every 1 minute after you enter combat. From lets plays I have seen its not different so Im not playing it wrong or such. But whatever.

[Robert Blackletter]

Anyway, most shooters aren't my kind of thing. I liked Metroid Prime Hunters (and all the Metroid series, But its not really focusing on the shooting) because the healthbars where pretty high. Yes it was not very diverse and the abilities where very similar, but at least I could think and react.

I just can't play longer then for 45 minuted. Its just so monotonous. With so little time to react, with things so chaotic I feel like Im not doing much. Its just run and shoot and die with little input every 1 minute after you enter combat. From lets plays I have seen its not different so Im not playing it wrong or such. But whatever.

If fps are not your thing, then that properly your problem, It not that chaotic IME it just learning to play the game. I found heavy and pryo as good starter classes, but if you want to avoid choastic combat maybe try spy.

[Ceric]

If fps are not your thing, then that properly your problem, It not that chaotic IME it just learning to play the game. I found heavy and pryo as good starter classes, but if you want to avoid choastic combat maybe try spy.

This, except I would not recommend playing spy. Spy is more like a mindgame where you have to know how players will think and act in order to not make them suspicious, and that's going to be difficult if the game looks like it's just chaos right now. Play other classes first and get a feel for the game flow and how you react in situations, then apply that knowledge to the other team.

Engineer is probably the least chaotic - possibly even boring - class to play, once you have a good sentry nest set up to kill everything for you. Again, engineer's a class where you have to have a bit of knowledge about the game and the maps ahead of time, but memorizing a few good locations on every map and spychecking everyone is most of the engineer strategy. (Note: engineer's a defensive class. A BLU engineer on a control point map isn't usually going to be very helpful.)

[Hiro Protagonest]

Engineer is probably the least chaotic - possibly even boring - class to play, once you have a good sentry nest set up to kill everything for you. Again, engineer's a class where you have to have a bit of knowledge about the game and the maps ahead of time, but memorizing a few good locations on every map and spychecking everyone is most of the engineer strategy. (Note: engineer's a defensive class. A BLU engineer on a control point map isn't usually going to be very helpful.)

Yeah. Like I said, a good strategy for engineer is to set up your receiver teleporter, your dispenser, and your sentry gun in one spot, and just sit there with your back up against the wall so Spies can't sabotage your buildings or backstab you. Make sure to upgrade your sentry to level 3, if not your other stuff as well.

Another good option, of course, is to just embrace the chaos - play a Soldier, and don't bother with the Direct Hit. Just spam rockets wherever you see opponents, and Rocket Jump to get around. Generally, when shooting rockets at opponents, aim for the feet.

[SamBurke]

@Jade Dragon: Sadly, Pyro is very gimped with weapons. Yes, he has a number of them, but they are all just one primary playstyle. You run up and burn stuff. Sure, it's a very effective style, and there is nothing worse than a pyro up in your grill (unless it's a ninja-spy... dear heavens...), but they do have less strategy. Not NO strategy, but less.

[Wyntonian]

@Jade Dragon: Sadly, Pyro is very gimped with weapons. Yes, he has a number of them, but they are all just one primary playstyle. You run up and burn stuff. Sure, it's a very effective style, and there is nothing worse than a pyro up in your grill (unless it's a ninja-spy... dear heavens...), but they do have less strategy. Not NO strategy, but less.

I actually rather enjoy the Pyro. Yeah, it's like my 4th best class, but it can be really fun at times, when there's some squishies defending a point and you get like 4 kills within 10 seconds.

[SamBurke]

I actually rather enjoy the Pyro. Yeah, it's like my 4th best class, but it can be really fun at times, when there's some squishies defending a point and you get like 4 kills within 10 seconds.

Oh, I ain't knocking the pyro. I have almost double the hours sunk into that beautiful thing as the next lower class. Still, it only has one playstyle. Even the engie gets several item sets (Wrangler, no wrangler, using the mini-sentry, going Battle Engie with the Crit Shawty, etc, etc), and so does every other class.

But you just gotta love playing the pyro... no matter what, it is awesome when you're the only pyro on a server fulla scouts. They think their fast legs save them. Hint: they don't.

[Ceric]

Pocketing a pyro as a medic isn't the most strategic course of action, but it's so much fun :smallbiggrin:

[SamBurke]

Pocketing a pyro as a medic isn't the most strategic course of action, but it's so much fun :smallbiggrin:

Plus, you get an ACHIEVEMENT! What other motivation do you need?

[The-Mage-King]

Cannot comment on the Pyros, I have no idea how they work beyond "shoot flames, and sometimes airblast burning allies".

That is just one, silly, strategy.


Me, I'm a more refined gentleman.


I go with the Puff-Then-Sting approach, or Airblast-into-sentry-range approach.

As a heavy, it's, quite frankly, terrifying to suddenly be in the air, on fire, and having a sentry's rockets aimed at your face, while your medic finds himself with a mailbox (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Postal_Pummeler) in the back of his head. Or front of head. Or back.


(As you can probably guess, I play Degreaser/Reserve Shooter/Pummeler Pyro. It's scarily effective.)

[SamBurke]

I go with the Puff-Then-Sting approach, or Airblast-into-sentry-range approach.

As a heavy, it's, quite frankly, terrifying to suddenly be in the air, on fire, and having a sentry's rockets aimed at your face, while your medic finds himself with a mailbox (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Postal_Pummeler) in the back of his head. Or front of head. Or back.


(As you can probably guess, I play Degreaser/Reserve Shooter/Pummeler Pyro. It's scarily effective.)

That's because you're actually decent at the game... sadly, I'm still learning how to Airblast right, and not shoot it at my own feet.

[The-Mage-King]

That's because you're actually decent at the game... sadly, I'm still learning how to Airblast right, and not shoot it at my own feet.

Eh. Just catch 'em with a small burst of flame, aim 'em upwards (so they can't recover and flee), and hit 'em with the axetinguisher or pummler until they die you get the hang of it. :smalltongue:

Airblasting projectiles, just aim a bit above where you think it should go, and a half second before you think you should.


But I mostly airblast an enemy up, into the line of my team's sentries/RAWKET LAWNCHAIRS/Lucksman/stickies/ect. Gets them out so I can go on to set the enemy medics on fire.


Sure, it's only assists. But you know you're the one getting the job done.



EDIT: Oh, and the best way to get a good eye for airblasting?


Play a game or ten of tennis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPBeEYzzM0).

I was terrible at airblasting for a few months, then finally managed to find a server of folks who were willing to tennis. My skills shot up dramatically.

[Triscuitable]

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET. I haven't ever gotten a hat as a drop... :(

I've gotten three. Two of them (Elvis and the powdered wig) were hair. The last was the Demoman Stuntman hat that goes with the Explosive Ordinance set.


Sadly, only once.

Still, whenever there are spies, it's worth it.

A smart sniper player will return to base when their expendable item (Ullapool Caber, Razorback) is destroyed.

[Ceric]

Plus, you get an ACHIEVEMENT! What other motivation do you need?

I wish. We found like the entire opposite team in one corner, preparing for a push, and my pocket decided the best use of an uber was to destory their teleport exit. :smallsigh:

[SamBurke]

I wish. We found like the entire opposite team in one corner, preparing for a push, and my pocket decided the best use of an uber was to destory their teleport exit. :smallsigh:

Well, then. You do realize you can de-uber him, and give it to some other, more worthy soul, right? AND it gives you more time than you have left (Only by a second or so, but)?

Flashing people is actually a valid Uber technique, if obscenely tough. I've never seen it done, save for videos.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Tennis has improved my Pyro skills SO MUCH.

[Eledragon]

Flashing people is actually a valid Uber technique, if obscenely tough. I've never seen it done, save for videos.

If flashing means switching ubers between multiple people, I always take the chance to uber half of my team on the point at once whenever possible :smallbiggrin:

[The-Mage-King]

Tennis has improved my Pyro skills SO MUCH.

I know, right! Before I found that tennis server, I was, well, sub-par is gentle for how bad I was at airblasting. Then, suddenly, I wound up being the single most targeted person on my team when playing at one of those insta-respawn servers, getting a reasonable number of kills from reflected rockets, killing sentries with their own rockets, and so on.

[Volthawk]

EDIT: Oh, and the best way to get a good eye for airblasting?


Play a game or ten of tennis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPBeEYzzM0).

I was terrible at airblasting for a few months, then finally managed to find a server of folks who were willing to tennis. My skills shot up dramatically.

Heh, that's awesome.

By the way, just went around adding all the people who mentioned their names on this thread, so that's why some of you may notice a friend invite from 'Volthawk'. Just a heads up so you know.

[SamBurke]

If flashing means switching ubers between multiple people, I always take the chance to uber half of my team on the point at once whenever possible :smallbiggrin:

Indeed. I"m not sure there's an official term for it, but that's what I use.

[Dark Elf Bard]

I'm currently playing a 2fort. The other team has a Scout, three Heavys, two Pyros, a Soldier, and two Snipers.

We have nine Demomen.

:smallbiggrin:

[Forbiddenwar]

I'm currently playing a 2fort. The other team has a Scout, three Heavys, two Pyros, a Soldier, and two Snipers.

We have nine Demomen.

:smallbiggrin:

I take it by the smile that their 2 pyros don't know how to play.

[Dublock]

This just came out in my mind..


I take it by the smile that their 2 pyros don't know how to play.

As in puff puff kill? :P

I am not the best pryo, but I can have fun while doing decent :smallsmile:

[Volthawk]

I'm playing on a randomiser server (so you randomly get given a class and weapon loadout - these two are not linked, so you can have any weapon as any class) that also has this rtd thing (typing rtd gives a random effect). So. Much. Fun. Oh, and all the models and animations are broken too, which is hilarious.

[Robert Blackletter]

Heh, that's awesome.

By the way, just went around adding all the people who mentioned their names on this thread, so that's why some of you may notice a friend invite from 'Volthawk'. Just a heads up so you know.

If your adding people, I'm lord blackletter, not particular good but do enjoy the game

[Teln]

I'm playing on a randomiser server (so you randomly get given a class and weapon loadout - these two are not linked, so you can have any weapon as any class) that also has this rtd thing (typing rtd gives a random effect). So. Much. Fun. Oh, and all the models and animations are broken too, which is hilarious.

Now I'm picturing Scout trying to lift Sasha.

[Ceric]

Well, then. You do realize you can de-uber him, and give it to some other, more worthy soul, right? AND it gives you more time than you have left (Only by a second or so, but)?

Flashing people is actually a valid Uber technique, if obscenely tough. I've never seen it done, save for videos.

We were the only two team members nearby. If I knew how to communicate back then I would have told him to ignore the tele and go after the players.


My favorite Randomizer broken animation is Soldier with jarate or mad milk. It uses the buff banner animation, so it looks like he's drinking it.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Yeah, randomize can give some seriously messed and hilarious up animations.

[Volthawk]

Yeah, randomize can give some seriously messed and hilarious up animations.

Jarate's always good, although the animation isn't that funny, the actual form it takes it weird - instead of the usual jar it has some long stretched form depending on the class.

[SamBurke]

This just came out in my mind..



As in puff puff kill? :P

I am not the best pryo, but I can have fun while doing decent :smallsmile:

You can use the bouncy-air to reflect projectiles... which means that most of the weapons for a Demo are out.

EXCEPT THE FRIGGIN SWORD. I hate that sword... so fast.... And the Targe. Hate it too. XD

[Forbiddenwar]

You can use the bouncy-air to reflect projectiles... which means that most of the weapons for a Demo are out.

EXCEPT THE FRIGGIN SWORD. I hate that sword... so fast.... And the Targe. Hate it too. XD

Sword shouldn't be a problem for a decent pyro. the airblast deflects players too:smalltongue:

[SamBurke]

Sword shouldn't be a problem for a decent pyro. the airblast deflects players too:smalltongue:

1. It... does? My life is now perfect...
2. I did try airblasting a medic away from his uber, but I couldn't get it right.

[Kurgan]

1. It... does? My life is now perfect...
2. I did try airblasting a medic away from his uber, but I couldn't get it right.

Yeah, while not the most effective tactic you can use, airblasting enemies off of cliffs is one of the funnest things to do in the game. A round of Hightower or Doublecross is just not the same without a pyro running around airblasting left and right. :smallbiggrin:

[SamBurke]

Yeah, while not the most effective tactic you can use, airblasting enemies off of cliffs is one of the funnest things to do in the game. A round of Hightower or Doublecross is just not the same without a pyro running around airblasting left and right. :smallbiggrin:

*brain splatters against wall* MIND. BLOWN.

Because that is precisely what I needed to make it work.

[The-Mage-King]

1. It... does? My life is now perfect...
2. I did try airblasting a medic away from his uber, but I couldn't get it right.

Huh. Thought you knew that/could gather that from this part of my proro advice post.


But I mostly airblast an enemy up, into the line of my team's sentries/RAWKET LAWNCHAIRS/Lucksman/stickies/ect. Gets them out so I can go on to set the enemy medics on fire.

:smalltongue:

[SamBurke]

Huh. Thought you knew that/could gather that from this part of my proro advice post.
:smalltongue:


>.>

<.<

*So you know my secret: I'm an idiot... please don't tell!*

[tyckspoon]

1. It... does? My life is now perfect...
2. I did try airblasting a medic away from his uber, but I couldn't get it right.

Just juggle both the medic and the uber-target with airblasts (uber pairs often stay close enough together to get both players in the same blast. If not, pin the uber-ee to the wall, the medic can't do much of anything besides maintain uber.) They will probably kill you, but you probably also completely wasted their uber- spending the full duration of uber to deal with one mouse-2-happy Pyro is not a good use of that charge. Similarly, Pyros make excellent defenders in capture-point maps; you might not be good/powerful enough to actually kill all of the enemy on the point, but you can certainly bounce them off long enough for more of your team to get there to back you up (this kind of play is frankly kind of suicidal and tends to result in lowish scores, since this behavior does not register on the scoreboard. It does mean you win actual rounds more, tho.)

(...and then there's those maps that have capture points delightfully placed on or near killer pits. I think it's.. Thunder Mountain, map 2, that has the entire first half of the map going along a death-border, with the approach to one of the capture points winding up a limited-visibility ramp very close to the edge? I got something like a quad-kill once just airblasting an enemy group off the cart there.)

[Wyntonian]

So....Engineers are a lot of fun. and Snipers seem to be better on offense than defense. And nobody can get past me as a heavy. Huh.

[SamBurke]

So....Engineers are a lot of fun. and Snipers seem to be better on offense than defense. And nobody can get past me as a heavy. Huh.

I see you have experience with other FPS. *bows*

Engies ARE awesome, and everyone loves one or three on their team, if they get a well placed teleport and dispenser.

Snipers... never thought of it that way. It really depends on the lines of the map. For example, on Gravel Pit, snipers work better for defense for most maps. On 2Fort, though, both sides need them (because, well, neither side is specifically attacking or defending, unless they're noobs).

So you're one of *THOSE* heavies?

Anyone on a Mac, with slow net, having problem doing MvM? It took me about 20 minutes to get into a regular server last night, and I keep getting error messages for MVM, which is fantastically annoying.

[Wyntonian]

I see you have experience with other FPS. *bows*

Snipers... never thought of it that way. It really depends on the lines of the map. For example, on Gravel Pit, snipers work better for defense for most maps. On 2Fort, though, both sides need them (because, well, neither side is specifically attacking or defending, unless they're noobs).

So you're one of *THOSE* heavies?


1. Not really? Some battlefront, way back when, but this is the first I've ever owned.

2. Can't remember the name of the map, but it was against bots. I got a couple good nests, and picked off medics and engies. Good times.

3. Against bots, again, defending a point. Got a medic buddy, and killed ten or twelve per spawn.

[SamBurke]

1. Not really? Some battlefront, way back when, but this is the first I've ever owned.

2. Can't remember the name of the map, but it was against bots. I got a couple good nests, and picked off medics and engies. Good times.

3. Against bots, again, defending a point. Got a medic buddy, and killed ten or twelve per spawn.

*sniffs enviously* Depending on the strength of the bots, they can actually be far better than normal-grade players. Not better than MLG folks, but definitely good.

You'll get the hang of the maps. It took me ages to remember them (80 hours to remember about 10 maps, and not even the different iterations. I can remember nests, though).

A 10x1 KxD count is pretty stinking hax, man.

[The Underlord]

My steam name is Underlord if anyone wants to add me. Why can I never rocket jump? I can sometimes mannage a sticky jump but never pull off a rocket jump. Is there some guide to rocket jumping?

[Forbiddenwar]

My steam name is Underlord if anyone wants to add me. Why can I never rocket jump? I can sometimes mannage a sticky jump but never pull off a rocket jump. Is there some guide to rocket jumping?

I had a lot of trouble with rocket jumping the the past. My problem was you have to jump and fire the rocket at the same time. I didn't realize that. Could that be your problem?
It's good to practice with either gunboats or a rocket jumper if you can get it. If I get a spare of either of those, want me to save it for you?

[Archonic Energy]

Now I'm picturing Scout trying to lift Sasha.

WHO TOUCHED SASHA!

:smallamused:

[Jeivar]

So, does anyone have amusing stories of TF2 gameplay?

One of my personal favorites happened when I was a Sniper, put an enemy in my sights from a considerable distance, pulled the trigger . . . and killed an invisible Spy who just happened to be in the line of fire. I had no idea he was there. :smallbiggrin:

Also, one time as a Spy I entered a sniper's nest in the hopes of getting some backstabbing done, but an enemy Heavy was inside and covering the entrance. My Dead Ringer saved me from the spray and got me inside, but I found I couldn't get at the Heavy's back since he had it up against a wall. He was focused on the door and didn't notice me inside, but I had very little room to move about and couldn't leave without getting shot.
So I used a barrel to jump on top of his head and just stabbed downward until he died. He spent his last moments firing in all directions (except up) trying to find me. :smallamused:

And maybe not amusing so much as personally satisfying but: The Pyro was one of the last classes I got the hang of, and the first time I successfully used an Airblast was when I redirected a crit rocket back at a Soldier AND the Medic healing him. At short range. Felt great.:smalltongue:

[Ceric]

I usually main Scout and a few other classes, whereas I have less than 5 hours of time on Sniper and Spy combined. (At least, I did before Halloween.) So I chose Sniper and went to practice in some pub on koth_badlands.

I was standing at one end of the bridge, just outside my team's house and next to the crates. My team had the point and were pushing forward, so I felt pretty safe. I took a shot and unscoped just in time to see an enemy Pyro rushing at me from the side.

I quickscoped and headshotted him by pure luck. He even called it a nice shot over voice chat, while I ran away for the health pack to extinguish myself. That was how close he was to me when I turned around :smalleek: Of course, I'm still terrible at Sniper and I think he ended up dominating me on the next map, but it felt pretty good :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Protagonest]

I usually main Scout and a few other classes, whereas I have less than 5 hours of time on Sniper and Spy combined. (At least, I did before Halloween.) So I chose Sniper and went to practice in some pub on koth_badlands.

I was standing at one end of the bridge, just outside my team's house and next to the crates. My team had the point and were pushing forward, so I felt pretty safe. I took a shot and unscoped just in time to see an enemy Pyro rushing at me from the side.

I quickscoped and headshotted him by pure luck. He even called it a nice shot over voice chat, while I ran away for the health pack to extinguish myself. That was how close he was to me when I turned around :smalleek: Of course, I'm still terrible at Sniper and I think he ended up dominating me on the next map, but it felt pretty good :smallbiggrin:

As a Sniper, you want to get out of your scope and look around every few seconds, unless you're lining up a shot rather than just trying to follow running enemies.

Remember kids, Razorback breeds bad habits!

[Arbane]

So, does anyone have amusing stories of TF2 gameplay?



Two:

One was on good old 2fort. I was playing Engineer, and I'd set up a sentry in the loft covering the courtyard, so anyone who went either way would have to get past it to get to the intel. Some smart scout figured he could drink Bonk and get past the sentry while he was unhittable...

...except Bonk doesn't REALLY make you unhittable, you just don't take damage. The stream of bullets from the sentry pinned him in the corner, and his attempt at jumping pushed him up in the air, rising steadily on a pillar of hot lead until the Bonk wore off and he got gibbed.

The other one happened to me, on a Turbine map. I was running through the enemy air-vents, and a turned a corner. I had just enough time to register:

1: there were stickybombs all around the walls, ceiling, and floor of the vent.
2: There was a demoman standing outside the vent.
3: He was making the "Ka-BOOM!" taunt.
4: I was now chunky salsa.

:smallfurious:

[The-Mage-King]

So, does anyone have amusing stories of TF2 gameplay?

There was the time I made a lucksman sniper ragequit due to skill...

To expand on it, it was on Turbine. I was my usual degreaser pyro. The lucksman was using the aforementioned bow, jarate, and an unknown melee weapon. I think it was the kukri, but it ended too soon.

I closed to the top of the stairs too fast for him, forcing him to drop the jar of urine on me while withdrawing behind his team, and go for a lucky shot with the huntsman.

Catch is, I reflected it to his team, then caught the arrow and got a headshot.


Cue rage quit.


Of course, I died fairly quickly, but....

Hey, I made someone ragequit with a lucky reflect.

[Ceric]

As a Sniper, you want to get out of your scope and look around every few seconds, unless you're lining up a shot rather than just trying to follow running enemies.

Remember kids, Razorback breeds bad habits!

Yep (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v30L7L35VOw), and especially since I'm used to heading straight to a Sniper's nest and bodyshotting him as soon as I learn where he is, I definitely try to move around pretty often when I'm the one playing Sniper. Absolutely zero situational awareness while scoped :smalleek:

[Kurgan]

Well, not a great story, but just last night was playing on Degroot as Medic, topped the scoreboards for one of the rounds and capped 2 of the points personally. Then, I get a trade request. Odd, but out of curiosity I accept, guy puts in a Haunted Rump-O-Lantern and says "GOOD JOB", and hits ready. Got to love the random kindness some days.

On another note, when going Medieval Medic, never forget your crossbow heals teammates! Very situational, but it has won the round more than once. I remember playing on Hightower once and just kept spamming long distance arrows at a Heavy on the final cart, keeping him healthy, as the area right around the cart had a few too many enemies for me to be comfy running to as Medic.

[Alabenson]

So, does anyone have amusing stories of TF2 gameplay?

I have a couple amusing (at least to me) sniper vs. spy stories;

I was doing my usual "holding down a choke point and making the other team's life difficult" thing, when a rocket lands near me from outside my line of sight. I turn around to grab a nearby medkit and see a friendly pyro, whom I promptly spy-check via Tribemen's Shiv. Lo and behold, I'm rewarded with a dead spy, but when I go to grab the medkit it seems like computer has hit a major lag spike, as my movement suddenly becomes very jerky. When that stops, I look up and see the same pyro I had just spy-checked, and realize that the spy was using the dead ringer, and that the reason I was moving so jerkily was because he had been going for the same medkit (and thankfully hadn't thought to backstab me while cloaked). The spy runs, I chase after him, corner him, jarate him, and finally finish him off, getting my "Kook the Spook" achievement in the process :smallbiggrin:.

The second happened during a particularly good run for me (to be honest I tend to die and awful lot), during which I had managed to dominate one of the opposing teams snipers. By this point I've gotten into the habit of turning around and slashing the air/any apparent friendlies every so often, and during one such instance I turn to see a very wounded demoman, whom I promptly smack with my knife. The demoman promptly keels over dead, and I learn that the sniper I had been dominating had switched to spy, with the same amount of success :smalltongue:.

The third was mostly a matter of dumb luck on my part. I had been covering one entranceway, and saw an enemy scout being followed by a friendly pyro. I decide to kill the scout (I had a full scope, so all I needed was a body shot) and take aim, only to miss and hit the pyro. Who then promptly dies and loses his disguise.

[Mando Knight]

(and thankfully hadn't thought to backstab me while cloaked).

If they could, that would be hell. (A Spy needs to fully decloak before he can use any of his attack options, whether it's Revolver, Knife, or Sapper)

[Thump]

Well, I have killed multiple Spies by rocketjumping. I was playing a match of Gravel Pit, and a Scout with BFB was running beside me, so I couldn't tell the speed difference. I rocket jump, get a CRIT on it, and the Scout promptly asplodes into little giblets. The player behind the Spyscout was four or five years old (Why he was playing TF2 and why he was swearing, I don't know), and started swearing over the mic, and another player says this quote over the mic;

"You know, that disguise wasn't really neccesary, considering you resemble it so perfectly."

Cue ragequit.

[Geno9999]

One time I was playing Spy on Granary (CP), I was near the center point, mostly on the enemy side. I walk up the ramp to the catwalks when I see a enemy soldier trying to rocket jump onto the large crates near the point. So I jumped off of the catwalk, and backstabbed the soldier in midair.:smallcool:

A more recent moment of Spy awesomeness was on Viaduct Event (also known as Eyeaduct.) I was running my Strange Saharan Spy set (minus the Fez.) I see on the summit, oppose to the hill, was a sentry nest, and more importantly, two scouts that weren't moving. I let the sentries kill me, sneak around behind them, decloak, run up the stairs, backstab both scouts, then backstab the engineer. A Soldier teleports in, apparently unaware of my true nature, walks past me as I start sapping all the engineer's stuff. I then backstab him after sapping the sentry, but I then get killed by one of his teammates. Doesn't matter, as afterward, the Engineer nest was reduced to a pile of scrap.

[Teln]

Hey guys, I could use some advice on what to do with my duplicate weapons--should I stockpile them for later selling, or should I just go ahead and make scrap out of them?

[Geno9999]

Hey guys, I could use some advice on what to do with my duplicate weapons--should I stockpile them for later selling, or should I just go ahead and make scrap out of them?
You could always try posting your extras on this thread, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259463) or on a trade server. Otherwise, I usually scrap them.

[Dublock]

If the weapon is new, like the pretty boy's pistol or the red tape recorder they can be worth more to trade then scrap, anything older I just scrap when I can.

[banthesun]

I'd suggest going on a trade server and looking for people scrapbanking. Scrapbanking is when someone will buy your duplicate weapons at a rate of two weapons for one scrap. The advantage for you is your weapons don't need to be of the same class, and the advantage to them is they can either resell the weapons at a higher price, or they can keep weapons they don't already have.

[Teln]

Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to try that next time. Turned out I had a whole refined's worth of dupes!

[Thufir]

I offer mine around to anyone looking to buy those specific weapons for a scrap each, until I start feeling my backpack's getting too full, at which point I smelt everything and start looking at what hats I can buy with the resulting metal.