[PF] Shield Bashing Magus

[Laniius]

I have a player who wants to use a shield as a weapon, do his funky shield-bashing stuff like that. He does not want to be a Skirnir, and he's willing to take the ASF. He is also paying the feats for it (Shield proficiency, and then improved shield bash).

He wants to use it with spell combat as well.

I kind of don't want to allow him to do this. Something sits me as wrong with this.

Also, he wants to use his shield as a thrown weapon. Will the bonuses from Arcane Pool persist once the weapon leaves his hand?

[grarrrg]

I have a player who wants to use a shield as a weapon, do his funky shield-bashing stuff like that. He does not want to be a Skirnir, and he's willing to take the ASF. He is also paying the feats for it (Shield proficiency, and then improved shield bash).

Well, making it out of Mithril will reduce ASF by 10%, so any shield other than Heavy or Tower would have 0% failure.


He wants to use it with spell combat as well.I kind of don't want to allow him to do this. Something sits me as wrong with this.
Hey, he's willing to pay the feat taxes when there is a perfectly viable archetype. I see nothing wrong.

Yes. Keep in mind though, that a Shield Defensive Enchantments are SEPARATE from its Offensive Enchantments.
Magic Armor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor):
"Shield enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used in a shield bash."
Shield Spikes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/shield-spikes):
"An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right."
And Throwing Shield (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/shield-throwing) for good measure:
"Neither a shield’s enhancement bonus to AC nor its shield spikes apply to your attack or damage rolls"

The only way around "paying twice" for your Shield is the Shield Master Feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shield-master-combat---final), which your Magus is NOT going to qualify for anytime soon.
As long as he's willing to pay feats and Pay to Enchant his Shield's Offense/Defense separately, then I see no problems.


Also, he wants to use his shield as a thrown weapon. Will the bonuses from Arcane Pool persist once the weapon leaves his hand?

The Magus Arcane Pool abilities would persist while the shield was thrown, the specific wording is:
"These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the magus."
So 'technically' they still function is no one wields it.

He's also going to want to put Returning on it if he plans on throwing it a lot.

[Daftendirekt]

Why doesn't he want to take Skirnir exactly? It's specifically there to allow a Magus to do what he wants to do without wasting several feats and risking arcane spell failure. All he'd be doing is horribly gimping himself. Tell him to either be a Skirnir or find a different concept.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Why doesn't he want to take Skirnir exactly? It's specifically there to allow a Magus to do what he wants to do without wasting several feats and risking arcane spell failure. All he'd be doing is horribly gimping himself. Tell him to either be a Skirnir or find a different concept.

I hate to force my players into a class/archetype... but to do otherwise in this case would make the character seriously gimped. Your player wouldn't have any fun.

[Larpus]

Why doesn't he want to take Skirnir exactly? It's specifically there to allow a Magus to do what he wants to do without wasting several feats and risking arcane spell failure. All he'd be doing is horribly gimping himself. Tell him to either be a Skirnir or find a different concept.
He's most probably displeased with the not sensible at all reduced spellcasting.

Though yeah, I would ask for the Skirnir without reduced casting before blowing feats.

[PinkysBrain]

With no ASF it's hardly gimping himself ... he's just out two feats to use the shield as an effective weapon, but gets a better AC in return.

A perfectly valid choice.

Skirnir doesn't just have reduced number of spells, the delayed spell combat is a much bigger pain in playing it ... in mid level before it gets spell combat, but after you get iteratives (because of haste) it's the Skirnir which is gimped in fact.

[Larpus]

Skirnir doesn't just have reduced number of spells, the delayed spell combat is a much bigger pain in playing it ... in mid level before it gets spell combat, but after you get iteratives (because of haste) it's the Skirnir which is gimped in fact.
It does have diminished spellcasting, they cast 1 less spell per level per day. And for what? I don't really see anything there worth a spell per day per level.


A skirnir casts one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number to 0, he may cast spells of that level only if his Intelligence allows bonus spells of that level.

[PinkysBrain]

"doesn't just"

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

SO.. wasting two feats just to WIELD the shield, plus ASF (which, admittedly, ANOTHER feat can negate) is less gimped that an archetype based around it, (which loses quite a bit, yes)?

You could have Power Attack and an Extra Arcana or something else if you prefer. You could be shield bashing, with meaningful damage, instead of just shield bashing... and rolling for ASF every round. (which at least once, will lose you... one spell a day, if not more.)

The loss of a spell/day is a calculated loss. A loss of a spell mid combat, wasting your turn, and possibly causing your character to die, is not fun.

In any case, neither choice is optimal.

[PinkysBrain]

SO.. wasting two feats just to WIELD the shield, plus ASF (which, admittedly, ANOTHER feat can negate)
Mithral light shield has no ASF ... and only the first feat is really lost, the second feat gets you AC as a bonus.

is less gimped that an archetype based around it, (which loses quite a bit, yes)?
Across certain level ranges, yes ... yes it is.

[Larpus]

"doesn't just"
Paraphrasing Jack Black after exploding a man's head: "...sorry!"

Anyway, I'd certainly give the archetype a slight re-design to make it viable. It's an interesting concept but mechanically it's a nearly unplayable mess.

[Roguenewb]

Skirnir seems to lose like every class feature of magus I like...

If he really wants to shield bash with Magus...let him bash with the Shield spell as if it was a Tower Shield?