Monk Overpowered?

[Lord_Kimboat]

I'm thinking the 4e might be suffering from a bit of book creep. In a game I'm running we have a 13th lvl Monk with Enlightened Action who spends an action point and essentially gets a free move (all shifts so no AoOs) as well as taking half damage from everything for being insubstantial.

Compare this to the Warlord who gets to give everyone a +1 to all defense for a round or the Wizard who can spend their action point and recover an encounter spell INSTEAD of taking an action.

So, I brought out the nerf bat and said the monk could take the extra action OR the free move, not both. The player wasn't happy so I'm asking all of you, what do you think?

[Kurald Galain]

Yes, 4E is suffering from power creep. On the other hand, no, monks are not anywhere near overpowered. The monk is a middle-tier class, whereas warlord and wizard are both top tier.

However, the issue here is not with classes, but with paragon paths, because that's where the action point abilities come from. PPs have several other features as well, so it's possible that one PP has a good action point ability and a poor level-11 encounter power, and another PP is the other way around. Of course, it's also possible that one PP is much stronger than another, because they really are all over the chart in terms of power level. For instance, the party wizard is apparently a Wizard Of The Spiral Tower, which is pretty bad.

I don't think your nerf is warranted, no. Instead, suggest that the warlord and wizard player may want to pick a better paragon path.

[obryn]

No, the monk isn't anywhere near overpowered.

They are a highly-mobile skirmisher and something of an AoE striker. They are about middle-of-the-road class. I'd be miffed at you nerfing my character, too, in these circumstances. :)

Now, there are varying levels of optimization, and if the monk's player happens to be better at the charop game than the rest of the party, the monk might seem OP. But really, the Wizard and Warlord in your party have higher optimization thresholds than the monk does; well-built Wizards will completely destroy many encounters on their own while the monk ... moves around a lot? And a well-made, capably-run Warlord makes a 5-character party act more like a 7- or 8-character party.

-O

[Ashdate]

I'm seconding what Kurald is saying; Paragon Paths are all over the place in terms of power level. Consider:

The "Platinum Warlord" (which I assume is what your Warlord too) is considered to be an "average" Paragon Path, same as the Wizard of the Spiral Tower (although Kurald is probably right that such a rating is probably giving it credit).

The "Transcendent Perfection" PP you dislike so much? It's considered to be absolute garbage (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/25065021/No_Paper_Tigers!!!!:_The_Monk_Handbook).

As a fellow GM, you've got to accept that players will take really good powers/feats/abilities (even if it isn't true in this case). Rather than trying to nerf it from the player side, tackle it from the GM side if it bothers you so much (but remember that as 4e suffers from "long combat syndrome", you should focus on making your creatures more deadly, not more survivable),

[neonchameleon]

I'm thinking the 4e might be suffering from a bit of book creep. In a game I'm running we have a 13th lvl Monk with Enlightened Action who spends an action point and essentially gets a free move (all shifts so no AoOs) as well as taking half damage from everything for being insubstantial.

Compare this to the Warlord who gets to give everyone a +1 to all defense for a round or the Wizard who can spend their action point and recover an encounter spell INSTEAD of taking an action.

So, I brought out the nerf bat and said the monk could take the extra action OR the free move, not both. The player wasn't happy so I'm asking all of you, what do you think?

Oh for...

Monks get to utterly absurd places. It's what they do, and ever since they first came out they've had the option of being able to fly at level 1 as an encounter power (Rising Storm). They don't do high damage by striker standards, they just are the best at getting where they need to be. And if this isn't causing headaches for the DM, they aren't being played well. (An actually powerful striker like the archer ranger with the Battlefield Archer PPC just makes things dead). So no, the monk being mobile doesn't need a nerf bat.

[Zaq]

Yeah, that nerf is totally uncalled-for. Ask yourself, what is the Monk breaking by having a cool trick on his AP? Positioning is cool, but it's just positioning, nothing more.

And yeah, Monks aren't overpowered in any way.

[Raimun]

Yes, the ability itself is good but not overpowered, all things considered.

Sure, free, uninterupted, move w/action point might open up nice tricks like 1st turn nova, w/all actions (and AP) used to deal damage. I've killed some melee monster to death that way. Is the monk capable of that with his AoE-attacks?

Even if yes, adding insubstantial on top of that doesn't really make that much of a difference if the monk has just taken out a sizeable portion of the enemy forces... which I seriously doubt.

[Vknight]

Its a monk.
Monks are built around agility your crippling your player for using his classes abilities
A monk just doesn't have the damage to make movement overpowering
A monk moves around and hurts people they are the striker designed to hit and run

Trust me when you have a high opp swordmage, wizard, warlord, ranger working together the things they will do

[Lord_Kimboat]

Okay guys, maybe my monk isn't overpowered when compared to optimised characters but that isn't what the rest of the party is. Aside from saying to the other players, "well guys, you suck at creating characters, try again," honestly what else can I do to get the rest of the players to stop glaring at me and slipping on their +3 Boots of Groin Kicking?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Okay guys, maybe my monk isn't overpowered when compared to optimised characters but that isn't what the rest of the party is. Aside from saying to the other players, "well guys, you suck at creating characters, try again," honestly what else can I do to get the rest of the players to stop glaring at me and slipping on their +3 Boots of Groin Kicking?

...Let the monk keep his power? Seriously, it doesn't matter what the warlord and wizard's power levels are, it's some free movement and a bit of damage reduction on a glass cannon melee class that's focused on being wherever he needs to be, whenever he needs to be there.

[Kurald Galain]

Aside from saying to the other players, "well guys, you suck at creating characters, try again,"

Obviously if you bring it that negatively, it's not going to work. If you simply point at the retraining rules, and point out that the monk has this particular combo but the warlord and wizard have something else (because they're, you know, not a striker) I'm sure you can work this out.

[Ashdate]

Okay guys, maybe my monk isn't overpowered when compared to optimised characters but that isn't what the rest of the party is. Aside from saying to the other players, "well guys, you suck at creating characters, try again," honestly what else can I do to get the rest of the players to stop glaring at me and slipping on their +3 Boots of Groin Kicking?

dealwithitdog.gif

As pointed out, this power is not unreasonable strong, and (as I mentioned before) this particular Monk prestige class is actually considered to be kind of considered terrible! This one power it has is probably one of the few good things about the prestige class.

Apologize to your player for overreacting, and if you really feel like this monk is ruining your well-crafted encounters, then increase the difficulty of your well-crafted encounters. The players get to play what they want, and you get to compensate for whatever grief that one power is giving you without the players ever knowing you're adding +2 to all damage rolls.

[neonchameleon]

Okay guys, maybe my monk isn't overpowered when compared to optimised characters but that isn't what the rest of the party is. Aside from saying to the other players, "well guys, you suck at creating characters, try again," honestly what else can I do to get the rest of the players to stop glaring at me and slipping on their +3 Boots of Groin Kicking?

I can't even find on a quick scan which PPs your guys have picked - but they have very low AP benefits.

[obryn]

Okay guys, maybe my monk isn't overpowered when compared to optimised characters but that isn't what the rest of the party is. Aside from saying to the other players, "well guys, you suck at creating characters, try again," honestly what else can I do to get the rest of the players to stop glaring at me and slipping on their +3 Boots of Groin Kicking?
Can you give us a breakdown of what the other PCs are doing?

Ideally, the Wizard should be shutting down entire encounters. Even a middle-of-the-road Wizard will define entire combats with their Dailies. The Warlord is going to be enhancing the rest of the party and letting them attack more.

Let the monk do what the monk does.

-O

[tarlison]

Well I guess that is not so bad u can always block shift movement , well the ranger of our party (ranger/rogue/cloak sniper) with a warlock multiclass and an acolyte power he got ethereal side step (a teleportation at will) level 10 utility and he got eladrin boots and the eladrin ring of passage, I guess this is worst than shifting at full blast he could fire triple shot+sudden bolt+snap shot +action point compounding arrows which make him a real pain but still he is not quite a problem just attack him with range attacked :-) running guys won't have it easy escaping that :-)

[tarlison]

I'm thinking the 4e might be suffering from a bit of book creep. In a game I'm running we have a 13th lvl Monk with Enlightened Action who spends an action point and essentially gets a free move (all shifts so no AoOs) as well as taking half damage from everything for being insubstantial.

Compare this to the Warlord who gets to give everyone a +1 to all defense for a round or the Wizard who can spend their action point and recover an encounter spell INSTEAD of taking an action.

So, I brought out the nerf bat and said the monk could take the extra action OR the free move, not both. The player wasn't happy so I'm asking all of you, what do you think?

Compare to that cloak sniper that only happen once per encounter and aside from that it requires an action point so it's not quite useful in multiple encounter , even how u put it just ignore him at that time and after that give him all the range attack u can throw at half damage is still a damage :-) just let him be he is a lot easier to handle than someone who teleport like a jumper :-) if its really getting ur goat don't nerf is .......side bord it u can always. make a monster to handle that; monster maker DM guide to address the problem nerfing is not the answer at this point.

[Vknight]

Okay guys, maybe my monk isn't overpowered when compared to optimised characters but that isn't what the rest of the party is. Aside from saying to the other players, "well guys, you suck at creating characters, try again," honestly what else can I do to get the rest of the players to stop glaring at me and slipping on their +3 Boots of Groin Kicking?

Suck it up. You made a character that is not perfect so I'm not going to punish the other PC's for that so you feel even.
Simple

As a wizard damage is not a primary focus.
As a warlord damage is not a primary focus.
Neither is movement

As a Leader you help the party, as a secondary defender you can tank for a round.
As a wizard you do blast damage and/or effects that cripple

So here
Make an encounter to beat on the Monks weakness, and show normal wizard and warlord strengths(Make sure the wizard and warlord have some of these)
and play out the fight

If there still complaining then you have my Thursday group ungrateful.
Constantly questioning you on every rule.
Constantly saying your a bad DM, because I called another Dm on his bad stuff and that means its acceptable to just berate me for no reason
Whining and never actually giving logical or conclusive reasons to why
Complaining if given a mystery to solve, or any type of puzzle solving
Simply not paying attention to information given in game or just not listening in general

[Raimun]

Okay guys, maybe my monk isn't overpowered when compared to optimised characters but that isn't what the rest of the party is. Aside from saying to the other players, "well guys, you suck at creating characters, try again," honestly what else can I do to get the rest of the players to stop glaring at me and slipping on their +3 Boots of Groin Kicking?

Ok, so the monk player isn't happy that you are nerfing his character and other players aren't happy with their Action Point-abilities?

Let the other players change their Paragon Paths, if that's such an issue for them. Stress that this is a one time thing and they should come to next session after reading some books and thinking it over. Either they can have their much vaunted Action Point-abilities or they might even figure out they had it good already. Yes, that requires bending the rules but so does nerfing. Either way, the end result would be RAW.

Also, rolling a new character should always be on the table, if used in moderation.

[NecroRebel]

Okay guys, maybe my monk isn't overpowered when compared to optimised characters but that isn't what the rest of the party is. Aside from saying to the other players, "well guys, you suck at creating characters, try again," honestly what else can I do to get the rest of the players to stop glaring at me and slipping on their +3 Boots of Groin Kicking?

Think of it this way: is it the monk's fault that your other players suck at making characters? If it is, somehow, fine, but if it's not, why are you punishing him for it?

Actually, another likely problem is that your other players' effectiveness simply isn't as visible to them as the monk's is. The monk is always doing something, after all. The Warlord class, however, is a Leader - an enabler. Their best options are those that cause other people to do things, which can hide that they're doing anything at all. The Wizard can be even worse in that regard, as as a Controller their goal is to make nothing happen - every action an enemy doesn't take is a success for a wizard, but things not happening is less obvious than things actually occurring. You might try noting the damage each player's actions do during a battle and then averaging them out, including noting whether a hit would've missed if not for the warlord granting bonuses to attacks and treating the damage dealt by other characters due to warlord-granted attacks as the warlord's, and making sure you sometimes point out when a monster would have done something if not for the wizard's disables.

And yeah, looking at that Transcendent Perfection PP, it is terribly weak. It seems like it tries to add leader and to some extent defender functionality to a striker-controller, but it doesn't do either well, and adds no actual striker function. The non-AP L11 feature lets you reposition allies (a leader's job), the L11 power lets you immobilize or stop yourself from being forced around (most useful for a defender), the L12 power is a weak heal (leaders get to use something superior twice per encounter at level 1), the L16 feature is extremely situational and just not that big an advantage, and the L20 power does merely average damage and eats your stance for a benefit that's pretty minor at that level. Even the L11 AP feature doesn't accomplish much that charging couldn't.

[Kurald Galain]

Actually, another likely problem is that your other players' effectiveness simply isn't as visible to them as the monk's is.

That is likely. I find that a controller's effectivity tends not to be noticed by the other players, but it is highly visible to the DM.

Aside from that, controllers are the hardest role to play well (with strikers being the easiest) so it is quite possible that the wizard looks ineffective because he is. There are some really crappy spells on the wizard list, after all, and the class requires more tactical insight than most strikers would.

[demigodus]

So the monk can walk into the middle of enemies (unless they are the type for whom shifting provokes), and not die in one round? At the cost of 1 power point? On a character class that needs to be in the middle of enemies to do effective damage? Who's class is built around dealing damage?

If the other players are glaring at you because the monk isn't dying on round one from DOING HIS JOB, the problem is with your other players not the monk character.


The Warlord class, however, is a Leader - an enabler. Their best options are those that cause other people to do things, which can hide that they're doing anything at all.

Only if they roleplay poorly. I am currently playing a lazy warlord in a game, with the Fey Beast theme, so I always have an owlbear in combat, flanking/giving aura benefit/etc. I'm always contributing, even out of turn, which actually gives the impression that I'm over-contributing, until we run the numbers. Of course, this is level 2. Maybe by level 13, warlords run out of things to do...

Just fluff it as the warlord yelling, and stuff happening. You yell, and someone attacks against, HARDER, an more accurately. You yell at someone to walk off the sword stuck in their heart, and they do.

[Lord_Kimboat]

Very well, your words have convinced me.

My game day is tomorrow and I will reinstate the monk's abilities (probably much to the delight of the munchkin of a player). I will also point out that he is not over powered but that the others are underpowered and will thus be granting a bonus of my own choosing to each of the others.

Many thanks to all of you. And Kurald, for your Thursday group, I feel your pain brother.

[obryn]

My game day is tomorrow and I will reinstate the monk's abilities (probably much to the delight of the munchkin of a player). I will also point out that he is not over powered but that the others are underpowered and will thus be granting a bonus of my own choosing to each of the others.
This may sound crazy, but why not encourage them to ... you know, make their characters stronger instead of solving it via DM Fiat which will probably generate yet more ill will at your table? Or tell them, "He's a monk; that's what monks do."

I have nothing against a low-op style of play. But "envy of the other PCs' power" is not really characteristic of a low-op player or playstyle. When you refer to him as a "munchkin" for simply making an effective character within the rules, it points to some dysfunction in the group. Unless there's more going on? "Moving around a ton with an action point" isn't really great evidence, here.

Some members of the WotC CharOp community can be obnoxious sometimes, but most of their class guides are much more even-handed and helpful. Pointing your other players in this direction might not be a horrible idea.

Monk (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/25065021/No_Paper_Tigers%21%21%21%21:_The_Monk_Handbook)
Wizard (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28817645/Archmages_Ascension_-_The_Wizards_Handbook?pg=1)
Warlord (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29049967/The_Warlord,_Or_How_to_Wield_a_Barbarian_One-Handed%22)

-O

[Ashdate]

Very well, your words have convinced me.

My game day is tomorrow and I will reinstate the monk's abilities (probably much to the delight of the munchkin of a player). I will also point out that he is not over powered but that the others are underpowered and will thus be granting a bonus of my own choosing to each of the others.

Many thanks to all of you. And Kurald, for your Thursday group, I feel your pain brother.

I'm still not sure you understand; none of your players are "over powered", least of all the Monk. As stated twice already, the paragon path he's in is a garbage one for a Monk. One decent ability usable every two combats do not a munchkin make.

Tell your Monk player you're sorry for overreacting, and just let it be.
Stop comparing the Monk to your other players (and your other players to each other!); if they feel they're underpowered, then let them pick a different paragon path, but rest assured, the monk is not going to be breaking anything in his current path.

[tarlison]

Very well, your words have convinced me.

My game day is tomorrow and I will reinstate the monk's abilities (probably much to the delight of the munchkin of a player). I will also point out that he is not over powered but that the others are underpowered and will thus be granting a bonus of my own choosing to each of the others.

Many thanks to all of you. And Kurald, for your Thursday group, I feel your pain brother.

I don't think the other characters are under power they just dont know thier place, in our game I hate the ranger/rogue/cloak sniper (main striker), but what can I do he teleports around and when I chase him the wizard/artificer(controller part time leader who happen to heal him if I do damage him) slows the monster down, when I do get near there is the paladin/dragon sorcerer (main defender)with all it's insane defense powers blocking my way and marking the monster , forcing his way I at last reach the cloak sniper the tempest/ranger/kensai(secondary striker and back up defender) pound the monster and with all The penalty of the paladin mark giving the monster a hell of a time trying to hit the crazy elf who keeps teleporting around and firing his crossbow. (note for two rounds this cloak sniper does a pinning strike +snapshot on the next round triple shot+sudden bolt) even though he has the largest damage it's his companion together give this monsters death even if though the bulk of the damage is from the cloak sniper. Without his companion the cloak sniper pitiful defense will have him overwhelm by the monster quite easily

[OracleofWuffing]

I still want to know more about the Wizard and Warlord builds. I mean, it's possible that they're just holding the phone wrong and forgetting to use abilities or misunderstanding their powers.

I'd guess the Warlord's a Knight Commander, which like the Wizard of the Spiral Tower, isn't particularly chosen for the Action Point boost. If that's the case, with all that movement the Monk has, he's robbing himself of an easy +2 to hit on his big Action Point turn- one that the Wizard's getting quite easily.

In comparison to the Monk, though, other Strikers get extra AP movement Paragon Paths, too. Ranger's got Pathfinder and Stormwarden, Rogue's got Cat Burglar and Master Infiltrator, Avengers have Zealous Assassin, Barbarians have Wildrunner, and that's just aiming for the low-hanging fruit. Try comparing to those paths instead of to the controller and leader paths- the Monk might be better off with his movement defensively, but others might have the upper hand offensively due to their other features (and heck, Strikers are supposed to like being offensive). Or, perhaps, the Warlord and Wizard paths that involve movement: Combat Veteran lets Warlords give out a move action, and Arcane Wayfarers get to teleport.

[tarlison]

I think the problem here is everybody wants to have high damage and a lot of show like manurvers wizard will have a problem keeping up with the monks dps even if he take the class Wizard/Warlock/Hell bringer , he will still fall short of the damage capability of a monk, what more if he warlord who is design for support, unless he hybrid ranger and get multiclass fighter with kensai I think he will get over that dps problem :-) worst he will take the snow tiger and grab a pair of katar and that's would be one wierd looking warlord :-) but functional

[tarlison]

Well i guess this is ur players idea of a leader :)

Beiro, level 13
Elf, Monk|Cleric, Transcendent Perfection
Monastic Tradition (Hybrid): Centered Breath (Hybrid)
Hybrid Monk: Hybrid Monk Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Unarmored Defense
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 14, Dex 21, Int 11, Wis 21, Cha 12.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 11.


AC: 30 Fort: 24 Reflex: 26 Will: 26
HP: 93 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
Heal +16, Insight +18, Perception +18, Diplomacy +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Arcana +6, Bluff +9, Dungeoneering +11, Endurance +8, History +6, Intimidate +9, Nature +13, Religion +6, Stealth +11, Streetwise +7, Thievery +11, Athletics +5

FEATS
Level 1: Valenar Weapon Training
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Unarmored Agility
Level 6: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Great Fortitude
Level 11: Two-Weapon Defense
Level 12: Weapon Proficiency (Parrying dagger)

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Five Storms
Hybrid at-will 1: Lance of Faith
Hybrid encounter 1: Open the Gate of Battle
Hybrid daily 1: Spinning Leopard Maneuver
Hybrid utility 2: Swift Flight
Hybrid encounter 3: Astral Flare
Hybrid daily 5: Weapon of the Gods
Hybrid utility 6: Bastion of Health
Hybrid encounter 7: Zealous Sanction
Hybrid daily 9: Flame Strike
Hybrid utility 10: Word of Vigor
Hybrid encounter 13: Overpowering Strike (replaces Open the Gate of Battle)

ITEMS
Magic Githweave Armor +3, Ki Scimitar +3, Rhythm Blade Parrying dagger +2, Cloak of Resistance +3, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier)

And of a Controller

Varis, level 13
Elf, Invoker|Monk, Transcendent Perfection
Covenant Manifestation: Manifestation of Preservation
Hybrid Invoker: Hybrid Invoker Reflex
Monastic Tradition (Hybrid): Centered Breath (Hybrid)
Hybrid Monk: Hybrid Monk Will
Hybrid Talent: Unarmored Defense
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 14, Dex 21, Int 11, Wis 21, Cha 12.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 11.


AC: 30 Fort: 24 Reflex: 26 Will: 26
HP: 80 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Perception +18, Religion +11, Thievery +16, Insight +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Arcana +6, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +11, Endurance +8, Heal +11, History +6, Intimidate +9, Nature +13, Stealth +11, Streetwise +7, Athletics +5

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Valenar Weapon Training
Level 4: Unarmored Agility
Level 6: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Two-Weapon Defense
Level 11: Weapon Proficiency (Parrying dagger)
Level 12: Great Fortitude

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Fallen Needle
Hybrid at-will 1: Grasping Shards
Hybrid encounter 1: Open the Gate of Battle
Hybrid daily 1: Spinning Leopard Maneuver
Hybrid utility 2: Divine Protection
Hybrid encounter 3: Chains of Carceri
Hybrid daily 5: Searing Orb
Hybrid utility 6: Centered Defense
Hybrid encounter 7: Lightning Spike
Hybrid daily 9: Summon Blade Angel
Hybrid utility 10: Iron Dragon Defense
Hybrid encounter 13: Storm's Wake (replaces Open the Gate of Battle)

ITEMS
Magic Githweave Armor +3, Ki Scimitar +3, Rhythm Blade Parrying dagger +2, Amulet of Mental Resolve +3, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier)

But I would prefer this even if there is not add on to the action point powers

Lance, level 13
Half-Elf, Paladin|Sorcerer, Paragon Hybrid
Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Fortitude
Sorcerous Power: Sorcerous Power Strength
Paragon Hybrid Talent: Soul of the Sorcerer
Soul of the Sorcerer: Dragon Soul
Dragon Soul: Dragon Soul Fire
Hybrid Talent: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 15, Dex 13, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 21.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 16.


AC: 32 Fort: 24 Reflex: 25 Will: 25
HP: 94 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +13, Bluff +16, Diplomacy +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +5, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +6, Heal +6, History +5, Insight +8, Intimidate +11, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +5, Stealth +5, Streetwise +11, Thievery +5

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Valenar Weapon Training
Level 4: Versatile Expertise
Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Parrying dagger)
Level 8: Lightning Reflexes
Level 10: Mark of Warding
Level 11: Armor Specialization (Plate)
Level 12: Dual Implement Spellcaster

POWERS
Dilettante: Direct the Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Virtuous Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Burning Spray
Paragon Hybrid: Spark Form
Paragon Hybrid: Sudden Scales
Hybrid encounter 1: Valorous Smite
Hybrid daily 1: Majestic Halo
Hybrid utility 2: Spatial Trip
Hybrid encounter 3: Poisonous Exhalation
Hybrid daily 5: Glacial Armor
Hybrid utility 6: Wrath of the Gods
Hybrid encounter 7: Rimestorm
Hybrid daily 9: Adamantine Echo
Hybrid utility 10: Narrow Escape
Hybrid encounter 13: Castigating Strike (replaces Valorous Smite)

ITEMS
Summoned Gith Plate Armor +3, Bradaman's Scimitar +3, Rhythm Blade Parrying dagger +2, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Badge of the Berserker +3, Boots of Quickness (heroic tier)

[Fallbot]

I'm going to agree with Ashdate and obryn that fiat is definitely not the way to go. Unless the Warlord and Wizard are actively complaining about being underpowered, you don't need to do anything. And if they are complaining, just let them rebuild (with the help of the guides obryn linked). Fiating extra powers is just going to make the poor Monk feel cheated all over again.

I'm also going to Nth that it's incredibly easy to undervalue the contributions of a controller/leader.

Anecdotal proof from the transcript of a post game conversation (because I'm still mad about it):

me: I'm so glad [my Wizard] actually did something this week

DM: well his charm did no damage and the charmed dude didn't either and the ice thing did 1 damage

me: He's not a blaster. He's not supposed to be doing damage

DM: so two damage over two turns might not count as good

me: He successfully kept that slaver from doing anything really for the entire battle, and had him take damage from the auras, and he immobilized the bagman and prevented it from doing anything for a turn

DM: suuuure

Also tarlison please use the 'Edit' button to amend your posts instead of double-posting.

[Lord_Kimboat]

Okay, to try to better portray the situation. Unfortunately I don't have the PCs character sheets handy so I can't provide too much hard information on class choices, etc.

I inherited this group from another DM at 11th level. The player of the Monk joined when I did and created his character then. He has chosen his feats for a great deal of defense and actually has better defenses than the Warlord as well as more HP.

Now I'm guessing the original players are not optimized well at all and none of the players seem to want to spend excess amounts of time researching and tweaking their characters.

However, they are the ones that are unhappy with the Monk who seem to have powers and abilities far beyond their own. It is also a little difficult for me as I don't want to design encounters too powerful for them but powerful enough to challenge the Monk.

It also doesn't help that the player of the Monk tends to brag a lot about his character and is always pushing for bonuses. I've told him more than once that combat advantage does not stack and I've caught him trying to use an encounter power twice in one encounter.

I've valued all the advice here but my guess is that when I tell the Monk's player that he's fine to use the PP, he's going to whoop and holler saying how great he is and if I just tell the other players to 'suck it up' and hit the books to optimize their own characters, they're just going to leave and not come back. I live in a rural area and there aren't exactly thousands of players waiting for a spot in a game.

[Ashdate]

Then it sounds like the problem is your players, not this particular Monk's Paragon Path.

Tell your Monk player that he needs to cut down the bragging. If you catch him cheating, either tell him to pay more attention, or you're going to start "cheating" as well (Whoops! Another critical hit on the monk!).

As for your other players, sit down and talk to them without the Monk-guy present. If their alleged effectiveness in combat is an issue, tell them they can't go comparing themselves to each other; they're playing different roles, and each of them are important to "solving" an encounter (damage isn't everything!). But, if they're unhappy with their character's effectiveness, tell them you'll sit down and work with them.

[Fallbot]

Then this seems to be less a problem with the Monk class and more a problem with one of your players being a jerk. If he powergames (or, from the sound of it, thinks he powergames) then he'll be a problem whichever class he plays.

If he's gloating and belittling other players, and outright trying to cheat with his encounter powers, then that's an out of game problem and should be solved out of game, instead of by applying in-game penalties, which are likely to cause bitterness and bad feeling.

The non confrontational option (the confrontational option being you telling him 'dude, you're being a ****. Quit it or you're out'), would be persuading him to help the other players improve (or 'improve' depending on his optimization abilities) their characters so that they're more on a par with his - he gets to feel like the big important RPG guru with everyone looking up to him, they get characters more capable of keeping up with his without needing to trawl through books, you get a party all at a similar level of power. Everybody wins.

Edit: Ouch. Beaten to the punch.

[NecroRebel]

This does sound more like you have a single problem player rather than a problem character. If you catch him trying to use a single encounter power twice in an encounter again, ban him from using that power ever again. Don't let him replace it, just don't let him use it, even in later encounters. That'll teach him to cheat :smallannoyed:

Actually, if you've caught him cheating three or more times, just boot him from the group. A player cheating makes things less fun for everyone else, and that defeats the whole point of the game.

You might also try researching his character and then talking about how it's not actually that great (hopefully in ways that your other players' characters aren't weak). In particular, you might comment on how bad all the people on the 'net find his paragon path and the reasons why. In addition, comparing his damage to the other players might help, especially if he's not dealing at least half again as much as they are - he's a striker, that's what he should be doing, and if he isn't averaging at least 150% of an equal-level non-striker, he just sucks.

[Tegu8788]

See now, this provides some key information. If the monk player is being a jerk about it, smack him with the DM hammer. If the character was built later, then it's possible he had access to some significantly better feats.

The key thing is the behavior. I suspect that, no matter what the mechanics are, with that attitude, no matter what he does the other players would be upset. Any reasonable person would get tired of someone constantly flaunting what they do in a team focused game like 4E.

I think any DM here would agree that jerks deserve a hammering, not the mechanics used.

Edit: Ninja. And see how quickly we all changed our tunes the second we found out it was a player, not character, issue.

[Fallbot]

In addition, comparing his damage to the other players might help, especially if he's not dealing at least half again as much as they are - he's a striker, that's what he should be doing, and if he isn't averaging at least 150% of an equal-level non-striker, he just sucks.

See that made me paranoid enough to immediately go and run our party's average DPRs to make sure I'm not playing a sucky striker. Oh god, I'm so insecure! :smallfrown:

[tarlison]

Okay, to try to better portray the situation. Unfortunately I don't have the PCs character sheets handy so I can't provide too much hard information on class choices, etc.

I inherited this group from another DM at 11th level. The player of the Monk joined when I did and created his character then. He has chosen his feats for a great deal of defense and actually has better defenses than the Warlord as well as more HP.

Now I'm guessing the original players are not optimized well at all and none of the players seem to want to spend excess amounts of time researching and tweaking their characters.

However, they are the ones that are unhappy with the Monk who seem to have powers and abilities far beyond their own. It is also a little difficult for me as I don't want to design encounters too powerful for them but powerful enough to challenge the Monk.

It also doesn't help that the player of the Monk tends to brag a lot about his character and is always pushing for bonuses. I've told him more than once that combat advantage does not stack and I've caught him trying to use an encounter power twice in one encounter.

I've valued all the advice here but my guess is that when I tell the Monk's player that he's fine to use the PP, he's going to whoop and holler saying how great he is and if I just tell the other players to 'suck it up' and hit the books to optimize their own characters, they're just going to leave and not come back. I live in a rural area and there aren't exactly thousands of players waiting for a spot in a game.

I think he is cheating try to find a character creator I think u might download it it torrent the latest u can find :-) input all his stats there and if possible use an index card where they will right all thier limited power like encounters and daily which they must give u when they use the power , monk max ur modifies AC at 13 with standard gear meaning +3 armor and stuff is 31+1, +1 if he is a stone momk witn a weapon in hand,if he have 2 weapon defense fear, +2 when he is not hit if he have cloak of displacement. And +2 if he have hem of able defense when not yet been damage, so if have all those he will have a whopping AC:37 considering all condition are meet if u hybrid it with avenger which is not likely he will be able to reach AC 34 and 39 if full that is if that the case this can only be use in paragon hybrid, which difinately not his character. Try to police his character.
Well what armor is ur warlord wearing plate,scale or chain :-) try to give him the master work version of each armor , a gith plate +3 can give a pc 10+3 enchantment = +13 to armor class just give us the built of ur party warlord and wizard and we will try our best to modify it and if possible the monk :-)


Gonna be playing later cant wait to try the airship dog fight :-) hope the Virulent Hive don't pound my Players too much bwahahahaha :smallamused: seeya later guys
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/603556_4555963619752_1988988939_n.jpgseeya guys :-) we will try our best to help lord kimboat I guess we all know how it feels to have cheating bragging pc :-) seeya

[NecroRebel]

See that made me paranoid enough to immediately go and run our party's average DPRs to make sure I'm not playing a sucky striker. Oh god, I'm so insecure! :smallfrown:

It's not really a hard-and-fast rule, but it does just happen that most strikers' striker feature boosts damage by around 50%, with that number slowly dropping as you go through each tier. Consider a warlock with 18 Con using Dire Radiance with and without curse at level 3, with a +1 implement. Without curse, that averages 3.5+4+1, or 8.5, damage, while curse boosts that by another 3.5 to 12 (~41% increase). An 18-int wizard using Ray of Frost with the same +1 implement would simply deal 8.5.

Notice, though, that dealing damage is a striker's main goal while other classes have other concerns, so the striker will probably be spending more feats and item properties on damage boosting, so that changes the numbers significantly.

[OracleofWuffing]

I think everyone else has eloquently handled things regarding problem playering, so I just want to point out one thing.


Unfortunately I don't have the PCs character sheets handy so I can't provide too much hard information on class choices, etc.
...
It is also a little difficult for me as I don't want to design encounters too powerful for them but powerful enough to challenge the Monk.
As long as you don't know your PCs' abilities, building encounters is going to be a crapshoot at best. The more you know your characters, and the more you know your players, the easier encounter construction will be. We narrowed down a bit of advice just with what you've given us, but any little bit of information you can give us helps a lot. Any effects that you see the Wizard and Warlord give out frequently? What are the results of their powers?

What WotC is hoping for, as far as your party construction goes, is that you'll send out spread-out monsters. Ideally, the Wizard will group the monsters together so the Monk can spread damage best or vice-versa. The biggest catch is that Monks like to target non-AC defenses, which is sort of the Wizard's schtick. At the very least, that means the Warlord is likely to shine against low-AC, high defense opponents. As far as three-person parties go, you've got a strong control influence. Without knowing too much about the Monk's options, you want to use enemies that can shrug or reduce the effects the Monk's handing out, while remaining open to whatever the Wizard throws out. Monks aren't particularly know for energy damage outside of force, so does the Wizard hit any major energy types well (cold, fire, lightning, nectrotic, acid, poison)? My big concern is that since your Wizard uses a class known for turning a weapon into an implement, is that he's getting too close to combat.

You can try using the Monk's defensiveness against him. Throw out one or two big solo targets (one that can slow or immobilize, hopefully), and two or three turns later, have a wave of lesser enemies come from the other direction. Maybe artillery, so the monk has a sense of urgency to get over there ASAP, but also gets torn deciding whether or not to continue smacking on the big bad. That said, that's the kind of thing certain Monk builds dream about. :smallyuk:

I am guessing the Wizard is building only using the Player's Handbook. If that is the case, you want to make sure you have huge encounter maps. Range 10 is 21 squares altogether, and he won't be able to use that range to his full advantage if everything's closer than that.

It is also not rude to ask players to bring a copy of their sheet that you can keep for yourself. Heck, you're the guy that's going to determine what magic items they might find or purchase, it will be practically mandatory for you to do this if you want to keep their inventories in line with where they should be. The game assumes players will have magic items, and... arguably, the magic item system might be biased towards favoring newcomers to the party. Depending on how the previous DM did things, the Wizard and Warlord may be in for some trinkets.

[Kurald Galain]

It also doesn't help that the player of the Monk tends to brag a lot about his character and is always pushing for bonuses. I've told him more than once that combat advantage does not stack and I've caught him trying to use an encounter power twice in one encounter.
Sounds like you've got a player issue, not a character issue. If his behavior is causing concern to you and the other players, you should talk to him, not arbitrarily nerf his character.

Also, if the wizard and warlord feel ineffective, feel free to post their builds here and we'll "fix" them for you.

[Fallbot]

It's not really a hard-and-fast rule, but it does just happen that most strikers' striker feature boosts damage by around 50%, with that number slowly dropping as you go through each tier. Consider a warlock with 18 Con using Dire Radiance with and without curse at level 3, with a +1 implement. Without curse, that averages 3.5+4+1, or 8.5, damage, while curse boosts that by another 3.5 to 12 (~41% increase). An 18-int wizard using Ray of Frost with the same +1 implement would simply deal 8.5.

Notice, though, that dealing damage is a striker's main goal while other classes have other concerns, so the striker will probably be spending more feats and item properties on damage boosting, so that changes the numbers significantly.

Thanks for the breakdown. I'm just being silly and paranoid anyway; it looks like my characters are within the expected parameters.

On topic, Oracle raises a good point. Not only will checking their sheets help you balance encounters and distribute loot, but it will let you check that no one is either making mistakes that reduce their effectiveness (Wizard and Warlord), or making 'mistakes' that just happen to make them stronger (Monk).

[tarlison]

Hi guys well i guess we might give him sample of warlord and wizard builds :) lets try to post some build for him to check out maybe it will give them some idea or maybe even improve what we show them
My version of the Warlord

Rangrim, level 13
Dwarf, Warlord|Ranger, Knight Commander
Warlord Leadership: Battlefront Leader (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlord: Hybrid Warlord Will
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Warlord Armor Proficiency
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 23, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 11, Wis 15, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10.


AC: 30 Fort: 26 Reflex: 19 Will: 22
HP: 95 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
Dungeoneering +15, Endurance +13, Heal +13, Athletics +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +6, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, History +6, Insight +8, Intimidate +6, Nature +8, Perception +8, Religion +6, Stealth +4, Streetwise +6, Thievery +4

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Armored Warlord
Level 4: Shield the Fallen (retrained to Armor Proficiency: Plate at Level 11)
Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Double axe)
Level 8: Weapon Expertise (Axe)
Level 10: Weapon Focus (Axe)
Level 11: Armor Specialization (Plate)
Level 12: Lasting Frost

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Direct the Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Hammer and Anvil
Hybrid daily 1: Pin the Foe
Hybrid utility 2: Aid the Injured
Hybrid encounter 3: Thundertusk Boar Strike
Hybrid daily 5: Adaptive Assault
Hybrid utility 6: Weave Through the Fray
Hybrid encounter 7: Claws of the Griffon
Hybrid daily 9: Attacks on the Run
Hybrid utility 10: Rousing Words
Hybrid encounter 13: Armor Splinter (replaces Thundertusk Boar Strike)

ITEMS
Frost Double axe +3, Badge of the Berserker +3, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Gloves of Ice (paragon tier), Black Iron Gith Plate Armor +3

My Version of a Wizard

Wil, level 13
Human, Wizard|Swordmage, Rimetongue Caller
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Shielding
Hybrid Talent: Swordmage Warding
Human Power Selection: Bonus At-Will Power
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 23, Wis 13, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 8.


AC: 32 Fort: 23 Reflex: 26 Will: 23
HP: 95 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
History +17, Religion +17, Endurance +13, Arcana +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +7, Heal +7, Insight +7, Intimidate +5, Nature +7, Perception +7, Stealth +6, Streetwise +5, Thievery +6, Athletics +7

FEATS
Human: Intelligent Blademaster
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 4: Armor Proficiency: Leather
Level 6: Rose King's Step (retrained to Armor Proficiency: Hide at Level 11)
Level 8: Far Spell (retrained to Burning Blizzard at Level 12)
Level 10: Wintertouched
Level 11: Lasting Frost
Level 12: Armor Specialization (Hide)

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Chilling Cloud
Hybrid at-will 1: Sword Burst
Hybrid at-will 1: Ray of Frost
Hybrid encounter 1: Chilling Blow
Hybrid daily 1: Frost Backlash
Hybrid utility 2: Dimensional Warp
Hybrid encounter 3: Icy Rays
Hybrid daily 5: Bigby's Icy Grasp
Hybrid utility 6: Swordmage's Decree
Hybrid encounter 7: Winter's Wrath
Hybrid daily 9: Summon Arrowhawk
Hybrid utility 10: Mirror Image
Hybrid encounter 13: Enervating Challenge (replaces Chilling Blow)

ITEMS
Frost Longsword +3, Inner Warmth Earthhide Armor +3, Cloak of Resistance +3, Gloves of Ice (paragon tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier)

[Kurald Galain]

Hi guys well i guess we might give him sample of warlord and wizard builds :)

You probably shouldn't recommend hybrid builds to novice players.

[tarlison]

You probably shouldn't recommend hybrid builds to novice players. I guess your right , hmmm base of what they say iy seem the main problem is not just mobility but also damage hmmm , I guess this will be a bit tough hmmmm
Warlord

Flint, level 13
Dwarf, Warlord, Knight Commander
Warlord: Battlefront Leader
Commanding Presence: Inspiring Presence
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 19.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16.


AC: 32 Fort: 25 Reflex: 24 Will: 24
HP: 93 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +11, Intimidate +15, Diplomacy +15, Athletics +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +6, Bluff +10, Dungeoneering +8, Heal +6, History +6, Insight +6, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +6, Stealth +2, Streetwise +10, Thievery +2

FEATS
Level 1: Armored Warlord
Level 2: Directing Inspiration (retrained to Armor Proficiency: Plate at Level 11)
Level 4: Weapon Expertise (Hammer)
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Hammer)
Level 8: Winter Touch
Level 10: Lightning Reflexes
Level 11: Armor Specialization (Plate)
Level 12: Lasting Frost

POWERS
Warlord at-will 1: Wolf Pack Tactics
Warlord at-will 1: Direct the Strike
Warlord encounter 1: Guarding Attack
Warlord daily 1: Bastion of Defense
Warlord utility 2: Aid the Injured
Warlord encounter 3: Warlord's Strike
Warlord daily 5: I've Got Your Back
Warlord utility 6: Rousing Words
Warlord encounter 7: Lion's Roar
Warlord daily 9: Blood Designation
Warlord utility 10: Tactical Orders
Warlord encounter 13: Bolstering Blow (replaces Guarding Attack)

ITEMS
Frost Warhammer +3, Hammer Shield Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Black Iron Gith Plate Armor +3, Mantle of the Golden General +3, Antipathy Gloves (heroic tier), Quickling Boots (heroic tier), Helm of Opportunity (heroic tier)

This is the Wizard I come up with not sure if its effective enough but just check it out :)

Riardon, level 13
Eladrin, Wizard, Wizard of the Spiral Tower
Arcane Implement Mastery: Staff of Defense
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Staff)
Corellon's Implement: Staff
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 16, Dex 13, Int 23, Wis 9, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 10.


AC: 32 Fort: 24 Reflex: 26 Will: 22
HP: 81 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +14, Arcana +19, Diplomacy +11, Religion +17, History +19

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Bluff +6, Dungeoneering +5, Heal +5, Insight +5, Intimidate +6, Nature +5, Perception +5, Stealth +7, Streetwise +6, Thievery +7, Athletics +8

FEATS
Wizard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Eladrin Soldier
Level 2: Armor Proficiency: Leather
Level 4: Weapon Proficiency (Parrying dagger)
Level 6: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: Armor Proficiency: Hide
Level 10: Wintertouched
Level 11: Armor Specialization (Hide)
Level 12: Lasting Frost

POWERS
Wizard at-will 1: Chilling Cloud
Wizard at-will 1: Ray of Frost
Wizard encounter 1: Icy Terrain
Wizard daily 1: Freezing Cloud
Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Sleep
Wizard utility 2: Shield
Wizard utility 2 Spellbook: Guardian Blades
Wizard encounter 3: Icy Rays
Wizard daily 5: Bigby's Icy Grasp
Wizard daily 5 Spellbook: Stinking Cloud
Wizard utility 6: Fire Shield
Wizard utility 6 Spellbook: Dispel Magic
Wizard encounter 7: Winter's Wrath
Wizard daily 9: Ice Storm
Wizard daily 9 Spellbook: Mordenkainen's Sword
Wizard utility 10: Repelling Shield
Wizard utility 10 Spellbook: Mirror Image
Wizard encounter 13: Frostburn (replaces Icy Terrain)

ITEMS
Spellbook, Displacer Earthhide Armor +3, Frost Longsword +3, Rhythm Blade Parrying dagger +1, Cloak of Resistance +3, Bracers of Mental Might (heroic tier), Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier), Boots of the Fencing Master (heroic tier), Diamond Cincture (heroic tier)

[Lord_Kimboat]

I'd just like to thank all members of this forum once again. The situation has been pretty well resolved.

The monk player has toned down being as much of a fool as he usually is (or has for the last couple of sessions anyway) and the others have worked out that 1) that they have different roles in the group and it isn't all about flashy powers, 2) that the monk actually doesn't do that much better than they do - counting up all damage, working out hp taken and general battle positioning has helped - as well as most of the monsters beginning to now focus attacks on the monk who keeps moving away from the rest of the group and finally 3) some of them finding powers, feats, etc., that they hadn't realised that they had.

So it's all working out. Thanks once again.

[Fallbot]

That's good to hear. It sounds like you resolved everything in the best possible way. Well done :smallsmile:

[tarlison]

Thats nice to hear :) Im glad that thing works out :)hope the rest of u have many more great session ahead of u :)

[Sol]

I see (and am glad) that you have largely resolved the issue, but I want to point out something that concerned me as I was reading this thread.

You said, "He has chosen his feats for a great deal of defense and actually has better defenses than the Warlord as well as more HP."

I just want to clarify here, both for you and your players, that warlords aren't defenders, and shouldn't expect to have above-average defenses and HP. It's rare to see one as squishy as a wizard, certainly, but they're, like i said, average when it comes to defenses.

Monks, on the other hand, deal significantly less damage-per-target than "normal" strikers, but have many area attacks. To help them deal with the resulting swarm of angry monsters, monks have defender-level defenses as a baseline, and can be easily built (without even getting cheesy) to have defender-level-defenses+4.

If your party is just these three characters, the monk isn't an all bad substitute for a real defender. He lacks a mark or any sort of punishment (monk OAs are usually pretty bad unless feats are taken), but his mobility and defenses can often annoy a cluster of monsters into confronting him. This is both his greatest strength and his greatest weakness. When he leaps into melee with 4 orcs, attack him with 4 orcs.

[Yakk]

I inherited this group from another DM at 11th level. The player of the Monk joined when I did and created his character then. He has chosen his feats for a great deal of defense and actually has better defenses than the Warlord as well as more HP.
"Actually" has better defences than the Warlord? I would expect a Monk to have higher defences than a Warlord.

Warlords are more likely to make another character invulnerable than to be invulnerable themselves.

It also doesn't help that the player of the Monk tends to brag a lot about his character and is always pushing for bonuses. I've told him more than once that combat advantage does not stack and I've caught him trying to use an encounter power twice in one encounter.
That's a problem. You might want to encourage printing out of "power cards" on cardstock at your friendly neighborhood print shop. You can keep them in stacks, then flip over the cards once you've used them. It makes tracking that kind of thing easy.

...

For a Warlord, you can make a really effective character with like 1 power and 1 feat and 1 item. Commander's Strike (grant a MBA, damage bonus equal to Int), Lend Might (+1 to hit on granted attacks), Chieftain's Spear (+1 to hit on granted basic attacks). You can now use any allies optimized MBA at +2 to hit and +2 to 5 to damage at-will. And all of the rest of your powers that grant attacks end up with a +2 bonus to hit, which is pretty strong. The monk may have to pick up a feat to boost her MBA for this to work if all you have is a Warlord, Wizard and Monk in the party.