2 Weapon Fighting

[seth6]

So im looking to write up a 6th lvl Character who will use 2 weapons any one have any good ideas for best class, race, and what not. Any one with any ideas please feel free to post em ^^ Thanks in advance

[seth6]

Oh ya and feats any suggestions on them

[Ashtagon]

Oh ya and feats any suggestions on them

Two-Weapon Fighting is probably a good idea for this build. May want to go for Improved TWF too.

[killianh]

So im looking to write up a 6th lvl Character who will use 2 weapons any one have any good ideas for best class, race, and what not. Any one with any ideas please feel free to post em ^^ Thanks in advance

Human fighter 2/rogue 4 is the easy route. Straight ranger can be good too as can warblade or swordsage from ToB. just about any melee can pull off TWF

There are literally tons and tons of threads on this subject. You can probably find most of the advice that will follow this post by a simple google search or even searching the subject on this site.

[eggs]

Warblade (Tome of Battle) is usually one of the better TWF-users. You might sneak in 2 levels of Ranger to delay the Warblade's level 4 stance and to get Two-Weapon fighting without the Dex requirement. Add Gloves of the Balanced Hand (Magic Item Compendium) for Dex- and feat-free Improved TWF and a good spattering of boosts and counters to complement the fighting style.

With Human race, that would leave 4 feats free - Ironheart Aura and Stormguard Warrior (both also ToB) can be a useful damage boost for a TWFer and either Combat Expertise+Dodge (building toward Karmic Strike from Complete Warrior) or Combat Reflexes (building toward the Player's Handbook 2's Robilar's Gambit and maybe either filling the other feat slot with Mage Slayer from Complete Arcane or skipping that feat slot and going Orc for the strength boost) would set the Stormguard Warrior combo up to generate a lot of bonus damage.

[Gwendol]

A different route to consider is rogue/swashbuckler (dual progression thanks to the daring outlaw feat) and rely on sneak attack damage and insightful strike to up the damage.

Google "daring outlaw build" for suggestions. Some points of note: get the rogue ACF penetrating strike for dealing SA to those normally immune. Feats: TWF, weapon finesse (bonus), staggering strike, craven (though note the will save penalty). Try to get hide in plain sight asap. There are a few ways to do that, pick one that fits.

[Hyde]

Thri-Kreen. The feat is "Multiweapon fighting".

From there, you can basically do what other people suggested, just more of it.

Also you have a psychotically high jump check, if you're into that sort of thing.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Warblade (Tome of Battle) is usually one of the better TWF-users. You might sneak in 2 levels of Ranger to delay the Warblade's level 4 stance and to get Two-Weapon fighting without the Dex requirement. Add Gloves of the Balanced Hand (Magic Item Compendium) for Dex- and feat-free Improved TWF and a good spattering of boosts and counters to complement the fighting style.

With Human race, that would leave 4 feats free - Ironheart Aura and Stormguard Warrior (both also ToB) can be a useful damage boost for a TWFer and either Combat Expertise+Dodge (building toward Karmic Strike from Complete Warrior) or Combat Reflexes (building toward the Player's Handbook 2's Robilar's Gambit and maybe either filling the other feat slot with Mage Slayer from Complete Arcane or skipping that feat slot and going Orc for the strength boost) would set the Stormguard Warrior combo up to generate a lot of bonus damage.

If you go this route, consider entring bloodclaw master (ToB) it'll get you a few more TWF options as well as a couple of more generally useful abilities and, since it's only 5 levels, leaves room for other PrC's too.

[limejuicepowder]

It's far from the best way to TWF, but I've always wanted to try a "combat rhythm" based twfighter. Combat rhythm is one of the tactical abilities from the Stormguard Warrior feat. Basically, it turns all of your attacks in to touch attacks for round, doing no damage, and then you get to unleash hell on the following round based on how many touch attacks hit.

For this, get as many ways to make attacks as possible, since touch attacks are usually really easy to make. TWF, snap kick, haste, etc.

[docnessuno]

Get weapon finesse, a dip into swordsage, the assassin's stance and the shadow hand feat. Pump your Dex to the roof, and enjoy full dex to hit and damage on both hands, on top of 2d6 SA (possibly more).

[Hunter Noventa]

Get weapon finesse, a dip into swordsage, the child of shadow stance and the shadow hand feat. Pump your Dex to the roof, and enjoy full dex to hit and damage on both hands, on top of 2d6 SA (possibly more).

But that will be very tight on feats, since to be a truly effective Swordsage you'll also need Weapon Finesse and Adaptive Style, on top of the TWF tree.

Granted, the entire Tiger Claw school lets you simulate TWF with maneuvers too.

The only issue I've discovered with the Shadow Blade feat that applies your dex to melee damage, is that you must be in a Shadow hand stance, some of which are less than spectacular, especially at higher levels.

My current character has a build of this style, and I'm still using one of mt 1st level stances simply because my gear replaces everything else, but YMMV.

[docnessuno]

But that will be very tight on feats, since to be a truly effective Swordsage you'll also need Weapon Finesse and Adaptive Style, on top of the TWF tree.

Granted, the entire Tiger Claw school lets you simulate TWF with maneuvers too.

The only issue I've discovered with the Shadow Blade feat that applies your dex to melee damage, is that you must be in a Shadow hand stance, some of which are less than spectacular, especially at higher levels.

My current character has a build of this style, and I'm still using one of mt 1st level stances simply because my gear replaces everything else, but YMMV.

Adaptative style is not really mandatory, and assassin's stance is a GREAT stance for a TWF character (for some reasong i wrote child of shadow earlier, editing my post). Also swordsage nets yyou 1 free decent feat (wepon focus) and the very nice Wis-to-AC in light armor.

To grab assassin's stance go either:
Swordsage 5
Something 6 / Swordsage 2
Something 2 / Swordsage 4 and use a feat on martial stance
Something 8 / Swordsage 1 (not recomended)

[lsfreak]

It's far from the best way to TWF, but I've always wanted to try a "combat rhythm" based twfighter. Combat rhythm is one of the tactical abilities from the Stormguard Warrior feat. Basically, it turns all of your attacks in to touch attacks for round, doing no damage, and then you get to unleash hell on the following round based on how many touch attacks hit.

For this, get as many ways to make attacks as possible, since touch attacks are usually really easy to make. TWF, snap kick, haste, etc.

A similar, alternative way of doing this is to use Stormguard Warrior combined with Karmic Strike and/or Robilar's Gambit. Every successful or attempted attack (respectively) against you provokes, you then don't use the AoO and instead turn it into a +atk/+dmg bonus for your next turn (from Stormguard). It's a fairly late thing though; Karmic is 8th level and Robilar's is 12th.

And a Jack B. Quick-type build: AoO retaliation, with Improved Trip and High Sword Low Ax, Knockdown, or some other way of reliably getting trip attempts while attacking. They attack once, you get an AoO that's both weapons, a trip, and improved-trip, once for Karmic and once for Robilar's. Going the full route is very feat-heavy, though (Knockdown and Robilar's-based is the cheapest at 6 feats if you grab ImpTrip for free, original Jack B. Quick is 12 feats for the core build).

Full AoO-retaliation builds require miss chance or some other non-AC defense, however, because Karmic Strike is -4AC and Robilar's Gambit grants enemies +4atk/dmg.

[Dusk Eclipse]

One option I have considered for TWF and Robilar Gambit is getting mobility (armour, heroics, actual feat :smallyuk:) and just run around enemies provoking AoO; but mitigating the +4 attack from Robilars with the AC bonus of mobility, start in Child of Shadows for an easy 20% miss chance.

[gorfnab]

Swift Hunter (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0) Dervishes can be fun with TWF

Human Scout 5/ Ranger 2/ Dervish 10 (or Barbarian 1/ Dervish 9)/ Scout 3
Feats:
1. Expeditious Dodge or regular Dodge, Mobility
3. Weapon Finesse
4. B: Combat Expertise
6. Weapon Focus Scimitar
7. B: Two Weapon Fighting
9. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. Swift Hunter
15. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. *Open Feat*
20. B: Improved Skirmish

*Open Feat Options* - Improved Critical Scimitar (decent as usual), Elusive Target (negates Power Attackers), Improved Buckler Defense (nice AC boost, take a few levels earlier if necessary), Combat Reflexes (extra attacks, somewhat situational depending on the game), Deadly Defense (combos with Elaborate Parry), Flay Foe, or Nemesis (great for Arcane Hunter ACF)

The last level of Dervish can be dumped if necessary (A Thousand Cuts is 1/day anyways) for a level of Whirling Frenzy (UA) Spiritual Totem: Lion (CC) Barbarian (take the Barbarian level at level 8 before entering Dervish). This then means you could take Extra Rage (set to Whirling Frenzy) as your 18th level feat (or at 12 or 15 if you move Swift Hunter and GTWF around).

[Vizzerdrix]

A 1 level dip into cleric for travel devotion is always a good Idea with TWF.

[Wonton]

My favourite TWF build has always been the Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5.

By the end of the build, you'll be feinting on every one of your 4 attacks, doing 1d4 + Int + 5d6 sneak attack damage (assuming your Feint succeeds). Adding another level will put you at level 12 and +11 BAB, so with GTWF you'll now have 6 attacks at the above damage.

Your AC won't be very high with this build (10 + Dex + Int), you'll be very reliant on Bluff, and it runs into the usual hurdle of "what to do vs crit-immune enemies"... so it's probably not as mechanically strong as some of the other Tome of Battle builds in this thread, but I really like the Dex/Int synergy and the idea of fighting with 2 daggers and NO armor.

[Gwendol]

With penetrating strike (ACF) you still do half SA damage to immune creatures, so that's not all bad. With such low AC concealment and hiding will be even more important, but not impossible to pull off. I guess you'll have to get good at picking your fights :smallsmile:

[Wonton]

With penetrating strike (ACF) you still do half SA damage to immune creatures, so that's not all bad. With such low AC concealment and hiding will be even more important, but not impossible to pull off. I guess you'll have to get good at picking your fights :smallsmile:

Ah, I'd never heard of that ACF. Where's it from? The only one I knew was from PHB2 that lets you impart a -5 to AC instead. Of course, there's always the option of using a Wand of Grave/Golem/Vine strike with UMD, but UMD leaves a bad taste in my mouth so I generally try to stay away from it. (I mean, it's like the designers went "We know casters are much more powerful than non-casters... so let's just toss in a skill that will let non-casters cast spells once in a while." So I stay away from it just to spite them.)

Edit: Saw your post. Daring Outlaw + Craven are too damn good not to take for this build. The only problem is the sheer number of feats required to make it work. Point-Blank Shot, Far Shot, WF (Dagger), Daring Outlaw, Craven, TWF, ITWF, GTWF... I guess regular Rogue/Swashbuckler is probably better in most situations then. This build was more of a design challenge anyway - I was playing a solo campaign and wanted to see how I could make a solo rogue work without magical invisibility or summons. In regular campaigns, you can just get your fighter buddy to flank for you.

[Urpriest]

My favourite TWF build has always been the Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5.

By the end of the build, you'll be feinting on every one of your 4 attacks, doing 1d4 + Int + 5d6 sneak attack damage (assuming your Feint succeeds). Adding another level will put you at level 12 and +11 BAB, so with GTWF you'll now have 6 attacks at the above damage.

Your AC won't be very high with this build (10 + Dex + Int), you'll be very reliant on Bluff, and it runs into the usual hurdle of "what to do vs crit-immune enemies"... so it's probably not as mechanically strong as some of the other Tome of Battle builds in this thread, but I really like the Dex/Int synergy and the idea of fighting with 2 daggers and NO armor.

Correction: you won't be feinting on every attack because it's only 1/round after the errata. However, with Surprising Riposte that hole is plugged.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Which is really stupid.... I mean bluffing in combat is the whole schtick of the Invisible Blade... stupid errata.:smallmad:

What is the source of Surprising Riposte? I have seen it mentioned a lot of times; but I've never found where it is printed.

[eggs]

Drow of the Underdark. That book has a surprising amount of useful stuff for Rogue-types in general.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Thanks, though I am not that surprised, after all the Drows are all about cloak and dagger politics aren't they?

[Gwendol]

I'd drop the ranged combat feats for now and concentrate on make TWF work and hurt.
Penetrating strike is from Dungeonscape.

Suggested build: swashbuckler 3/rogue 3 (penetrating strike ACF @ r3)
Human
Feats: weapon finesse (bonus), TWF, craven (human), Darkstalker, daring outlaw

If you have room for flaws travel devotion is useful, as is able learner (for accessing rogue skills as you continue to advance swashbuckler).
Looking ahead a shadowdancer dip for gaining hide in plain sight is advised.
For your 9 level feat I propose staggering strike.