Alex Mercer vs. Batman

[Milo v3]

Prototype has its own DC Comic. Though it isn't stated whether it is in the DC Universe (Though it would explain a few things).

Basically the idea of this thread is to guess/estimate what would happen if the events of Prototype 1 & 2 occured in the DC universe.

[Worira]

Batman does extensive research and detective work on the background of Alex Mercer, the Blacklight virus, and any other important information. Batman goes in armed with all the psychological triggers, mysterious red deathmists, and sapient megacancers possible. He then talks to Alex, and discusses the events and circumstances in a reasonable manner. Together, they deal with the various antagonists of the story, and Mercer starts working as a superhero.

Oh and probably some supervillains take a whole bunch of samples of the blacklight virus for future shenanigans.

[Xondoure]

Batman. Virus repellent from the bat belt. :P

Mercer in a marvel crossover seems more interesting. Specifically what would happen if he ran into Venom or Carnage.

[TheFallenOne]

Batman is Always Prepared, so he has read Concerning vs. Threads. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70661) He points out they shouldn't be fighting like this, match ends in a draw, moral victory for Batman.

It's a metasolution, but Bats breaking the 4th Wall like this could be entertaining.

[Reverent-One]

Mercer in a marvel crossover seems more interesting. Specifically what would happen if he ran into Venom or Carnage.

Or Anti-Venom.

[Eldan]

Batman. Virus repellent from the bat belt. :P

Mercer in a marvel crossover seems more interesting. Specifically what would happen if he ran into Venom or Carnage.

I just don't want to know what happens if they eat each other, in any combination.

[Milo v3]

Mercer in a marvel crossover seems more interesting. Specifically what would happen if he ran into Venom or Carnage.
Especially since Mercer basically has the same powers of venom and carnage combined with genius intellect.


Batman is Always Prepared, so he has read Concerning vs. Threads. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70661) He points out they shouldn't be fighting like this, match ends in a draw, moral victory for Batman.

It's a metasolution, but Bats breaking the 4th Wall like this could be entertaining.
This isn't actually a Vs. Thread.
Its more about implications of the Prototype series upon the DC universe as it may or may not take place in it. When I suggested this to one of friends, he said that Batman would just come in and battle mercer, thus the origin of the threads name.


Or Anti-Venom.
Whitelight.

[Reverent-One]

Whitelight.

Looks like a poor comparision. Whitelight is apparently a cure specifically for the blacklight virus that ended up getting tainted. Unless you're saying that Anti-Venom would do what Whitelight was meant to do before being tainted.

[Milo v3]

Unless you're saying that Anti-Venom would do what Whitelight was meant to do before being tainted.

Yes. And look what Mercer did to it with a small amount of his blood. As long as the infected themselves don't touch Anti-Venom directly they should be able to modify Anti-Venom's genetics. Though containing him will be difficult without massive amounts of evolved casualties.

Or they could try and get samples of Anti-Venom, infect themselves with traces of him, adapt until they are immune to it, mimicing what he did with Bloodtox.

[Reverent-One]

Yes. And look what Mercer did to it with a small amount of his blood. As long as the infected themselves don't touch Anti-Venom directly they should be able to modify Anti-Venom's genetics. Though containing him will be difficult without massive amounts of evolved casualties.

Or they could try and get samples of Anti-Venom, infect themselves with traces of him, adapt until they are immune to it, mimicing what he did with Bloodtox.

See, I don't see how you can say with certainty that the infected can modify Anti-venom's genetics. AV's healing abilties go beyond a simple manufactured cure and given his regenerative capabilities, it's at least as likely he'd be able to cleanse himself of anything they may try.

[Soras Teva Gee]

This isn't actually a Vs. Thread.
Its more about implications of the Prototype series upon the DC universe as it may or may not take place in it. When I suggested this to one of friends, he said that Batman would just come in and battle mercer, thus the origin of the threads name.

I believe the proper answer then is: Bigger. Than. Batman.

From what I've read of Prototype this would get the entire Justice League involved along with anyone they care to call in to help. And the entire thing is cleared up quickly and with a modicrum of melodrama.

Depending on the writer, Mercer's specific conduct, and form of the resolution he is either: thrown in super-jail for being a murderous bastard, becomes a super villain for those reasons, cured and sent on his way, or allowed to become a new superhero if he doesn't eat people.

[Calemyr]

Depending on the writer, Mercer's specific conduct, and form of the resolution he is either: thrown in super-jail for being a murderous bastard, becomes a super villain for those reasons, cured and sent on his way, or allowed to become a new superhero if he doesn't eat people.

Actually, I was kinda wondering if eating people wouldn't eventually make him a bit heroic, in a warped sense. Blackwatch isn't an admirable organization, but most of the people in it likely signed on for the same reasons most join the military, including a deep need to protect their people.

I half expect the raising cacophony in Mercer's head to calling him more and more to heroic actions, albeit through non-heroic means. I mean, hero or not, he's still an all-consuming, grey-goo, shape-shifting bio-Cthulu. His methods are not going to be Superman's.

[Eldan]

I was always wondering why Mercer behaved the way he did anyway. I mean, he's running around slaughtering everything, and I don't quite see why in the game. He could try, you know, talking to someone. Or at least go after his targets without killing everyone.

[MLai]

I don't understand how people can suggest he may become a superhero, when the man is a mass murdering psychopath? His sob story origin is irrelevant.

[Eldan]

Why is he a mass murdering psychopath? That's what I want to know. He was a scientist, still has much of the personality, then runs away out of a lab and begins killing things.

[Tavar]

Technically, the Virus mercer is only a mass murderer if you play him that way(at least in the first game). Considering that both Marines and Blacklight have kill orders regarding him, for reasons unknown to the person in question, it's questionable how to regard his actions towards them. Not good, certainly, but villians or the like have reformed, from time to time.

Also, it's it explicit that he doesn't have the same personality? The virus took on his features, and eventually gets his memories(I think), but I'm pretty sure his sister comments on how he's a nicer person now than before.

Also, I think psychopath is the wrong word. I'd say his default state of being is a sociopath, which is very, very different. For example, some studies I've heard of placed many top business men among the ranks of the latter.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Actually, I was kinda wondering if eating people wouldn't eventually make him a bit heroic, in a warped sense.

I'd rather not give an all encompassing answers I would say the DCU and the League frown much more heavily on anti-heroics then say Marvel does.

I think the League will have something to say, what is too much of a question of how the story turns out to be for sure. Mercer might say be judged too dangerous but not truely to blame.... then wake up a little later having relevant memories and powers sealed by J'onn messing with his head.

Something I believe the League did back in the day with the White Martian population.

Or alternately the League intervention from the start reduces any need for the more extreme actions on Mercer's part. I'm not writing it all, and there's too many possibilities to cover.

[Tavar]

I'd say the latter: there's no way that a huge, biological attack on that scale wouldn't warrant a response from the JL(actually, that brings up a question: I know in Marvel real cities exist, but does New York exist in the DC verse, or is it replaced with metropolis). Most likely, they'd quarantine him once they realized he's some weird, viral lifeform.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'd say the latter: there's no way that a huge, biological attack on that scale wouldn't warrant a response from the JL(actually, that brings up a question: I know in Marvel real cities exist, but does New York exist in the DC verse, or is it replaced with metropolis). Most likely, they'd quarantine him once they realized he's some weird, viral lifeform.

Metropolis, Gotham, and NYC all exist separately but on the East Coast... somewhere.

In JLA/Avengers they even established once that the DCU Earth is a bit bigger in every portion to create space for all the fictional cities heroes tend to inhabit.

Now where exactly these cities are...

[Mordokai]

Why is he a mass murdering psychopath? That's what I want to know. He was a scientist, still has much of the personality, then runs away out of a lab and begins killing things.

He isn't and since these are major spoilers, I'm gonna spoil it for everybody who hasn't played the first game. Which, by the way, you really should. It's chalk full of awesome.

Alex Mercer, as you see him in game, isn't really Alex Mercer. He's Blacklight, a sentient virus, created by original Alex Mercer, who died while threatening to release the same virus on the New York, before he got killed. The virus found it's way into Alex's dying body and reanimated him some days later. Since virus basically grants powers of shapeshifting and Alex was the only body he had to model, Blacklight still considers and refers to itself as Alex Mercer.

Now, Mercer was a sociopath, no doubt about it. And since Blacklight also gets acess to the memories of the person, it copied Alex's behaviour patterns. When Blacklight starts killing and consuming other people, it gains access to other emotions, like love, compassion, worry... That reflects in Alex getting more humane during the course of the game. If Alex is killing people at random, that's your doing. You, as the player makes him do all those attrocities. Blacklight is shown(in cinematics of the game and in the comics that were released to shine the light on some of the events in the game) in much more positive light, only killing when neccessary and even then mostly just Blackwatch and marines.

[Calemyr]

He isn't and since these are major spoilers, I'm gonna spoil it for everybody who hasn't played the first game. Which, by the way, you really should. It's chalk full of awesome.

Alex Mercer, as you see him in game, isn't really Alex Mercer. He's Blacklight, a sentient virus, created by original Alex Mercer, who died while threatening to release the same virus on the New York, before he got killed. The virus found it's way into Alex's dying body and reanimated him some days later. Since virus basically grants powers of shapeshifting and Alex was the only body he had to model, Blacklight still considers and refers to itself as Alex Mercer.

Now, Mercer was a sociopath, no doubt about it. And since Blacklight also gets acess to the memories of the person, it copied Alex's behaviour patterns. When Blacklight starts killing and consuming other people, it gains access to other emotions, like love, compassion, worry... That reflects in Alex getting more humane during the course of the game. If Alex is killing people at random, that's your doing. You, as the player makes him do all those attrocities. Blacklight is shown(in cinematics of the game and in the comics that were released to shine the light on some of the events in the game) in much more positive light, only killing when neccessary and even then mostly just Blackwatch and marines.

It's actually a little trickier than that, I think.

As I understood it, they used the word "sociopath" correctly, which is quite rare. Alex Mercer (the scientist) was indeed a sociopath, but he was the every day run-of-the-mill sociopaths you meet every day without knowing it. Mercer wasn't particularly evil or cruel or anything, he simply didn't have any empathy, any concept that other people actually mattered. That's exactly the psychological profile you'd need to be able to work on a bio-weapon as dubious as Blacklight.

The exact details of the station incident (Mercer's death, Blacklight's birth) are something I still don't haven't seen all of, but what I saw gave the impression that Mercer's final moments might not have been as evil as they seemed - I got the impression that he was trying to blackmail Blackwatch into stopping this project, and Blackwatch chose to shoot him rather than relent. Mercer drops the vial, releases Blacklight, and Blacklight becomes Mercer.

See, the thing about Blacklight is it has just enough of Mercer's memories to mistake itself for him, but not enough to comprehend his situation. It starts the game lost, confused, hunted, scared, upset, and very powerful.

Besides, Blacklight tries on multiple occasions to talk with people, and it really never turns out good for it. Mercer's sister becomes a target for it, and most of the other people he tries to talk to are manipulating him for one aim or another. And when he does talk to these people, he quite clearly is trying to accomplish his goals while minimizing the damage. And failing. Catastrophically.

Blacklight Mercer is almost certainly the most ineffective hero I've played in years. He is too powerful for his own good, he's never given a chance to state his case until right at the end, and he only finds out what he is after being hunted like an animal for half the game, his enemies are ridiculously powerful at times, and his only means of survival (and understanding) is feeding on the creatures around him.

[Mordokai]

It's actually a little trickier than that, I think.

As I understood it, they used the word "sociopath" correctly, which is quite rare. Alex Mercer (the scientist) was indeed a sociopath, but he was the every day run-of-the-mill sociopaths you meet every day without knowing it. Mercer wasn't particularly evil or cruel or anything, he simply didn't have any empathy, any concept that other people actually mattered. That's exactly the psychological profile you'd need to be able to work on a bio-weapon as dubious as Blacklight.

The exact details of the station incident (Mercer's death, Blacklight's birth) are something I still don't haven't seen all of, but what I saw gave the impression that Mercer's final moments might not have been as evil as they seemed - I got the impression that he was trying to blackmail Blackwatch into stopping this project, and Blackwatch chose to shoot him rather than relent. Mercer drops the vial, releases Blacklight, and Blacklight becomes Mercer.

See, the thing about Blacklight is it has just enough of Mercer's memories to mistake itself for him, but not enough to comprehend his situation. It starts the game lost, confused, hunted, scared, upset, and very powerful.

Besides, Blacklight tries on multiple occasions to talk with people, and it really never turns out good for it. Mercer's sister becomes a target for it, and most of the other people he tries to talk to are manipulating him for one aim or another. And when he does talk to these people, he quite clearly is trying to accomplish his goals while minimizing the damage. And failing. Catastrophically.

Blacklight Mercer is almost certainly the most ineffective hero I've played in years. He is too powerful for his own good, he's never given a chance to state his case until right at the end, and he only finds out what he is after being hunted like an animal for half the game, his enemies are ridiculously powerful at times, and his only means of survival (and understanding) is feeding on the creatures around him.


Why would Mercer try to stop Blacwatch? As you said yourself, he was a sociopath, but we disagree on how big he was. I don't think he was a regular sociopath, I think he was quite much more than that. But that doesn't matter here.

What matters is, Mercer didn't care any for his fellow humans. Hell, he didn't care for his own sister, he used her as a cheap and effective source of information. Blacklight cares more about Dana than Alex ever did.

The way I got it, Mercer was blackmailing Gentek for more information and that put him on hit list, which is why he decided to run. Blackwatch corners him in Penn Station, he releases Blacklight, gets shot, gets infected. End of story. Or as it would turn it, the beggining.

This is supported by Blacklight itself, near the end of the game, when it figures out what happened.

"What Mercer did was... beyond forgiveness."

[Calemyr]

Why would Mercer try to stop Blacwatch? As you said yourself, he was a sociopath, but we disagree on how big he was. I don't think he was a regular sociopath, I think he was quite much more than that. But that doesn't matter here.

What matters is, Mercer didn't care any for his fellow humans. Hell, he didn't care for his own sister, he used her as a cheap and effective source of information. Blacklight cares more about Dana than Alex ever did.

The way I got it, Mercer was blackmailing Gentek for more information and that put him on hit list, which is why he decided to run. Blackwatch corners him in Penn Station, he releases Blacklight, gets shot, gets infected. End of story. Or as it would turn it, the beggining.

This is supported by Blacklight itself, near the end of the game, when it figures out what happened.

"What Mercer did was... beyond forgiveness."

According to Mercer's sister, he was getting uncomfortable with his work and asking her to do research on his company. There are also other little details that suggested things were going in a bad direction, but I don't remember them off hand.

I can't fault your interpretation, of course. I just don't believe Mercer was as black and white as all that. Blacklight shows a level of empathy (even early on) that goes beyond the raw villain it was supposedly cut from. Besides, I humans are never black and white in any event, so I find it hard to assume that's the case with Mercer.

[Tiki Snakes]

Not having played the game, I thought I'd chip my 2 cents in anyway on Mercer;
If he is a Sociopath, he wouldn't necessary empathise as such, or instinctively see a problem with what he was doing for Blackwatch. But if he's smart, and capable of functioning in society despite that, it's possible that he came to realise how bad it all was or might be on a purely intellectual level?

[Mordokai]

According to Mercer's sister, he was getting uncomfortable with his work and asking her to do research on his company. There are also other little details that suggested things were going in a bad direction, but I don't remember them off hand.

I can't fault your interpretation, of course. I just don't believe Mercer was as black and white as all that. Blacklight shows a level of empathy (even early on) that goes beyond the raw villain it was supposedly cut from. Besides, I humans are never black and white in any event, so I find it hard to assume that's the case with Mercer.

Did you finish Web of Intrigue 100%? I did and let me tell you, there are some pretty damning evidence in there.

Of course, I still may be wrong and you may be right, I can't argue that. But I really think Mercer was pretty black and white. Humanity in itself is not black and white, I agree. But few individuals here and there are. You say Blacklight wasn't bad from the begining. How long did it take it to consume it's first victim? Five minutes? Probably less. Until then, it was in a state of raw panic and shock, waking on dissection table of the morgue, getting shot at, figuring he has strange, alien powers... it's mind was blank for first few moments and when he consumed the first blackwath soldier, his memories started feeling the blanks in Blacklight's memory. Some time later, Mercer's memories became dominant.

Once again, this is the way I intrpret it. I may be wrong, though.

[Milo v3]

Interesting in the comics, "Zeus" tries to make sure he doesn't kill civilians. If you killed innocent people that was your decision.

Also, his mind is a gesalt where he gains mental traits from people he consumes. He mainly consumes blackwatch, 80% of which are murderous psychopaths.

[Smart_alec]

Metropolis, Gotham, and NYC all exist separately but on the East Coast... somewhere.

In JLA/Avengers they even established once that the DCU Earth is a bit bigger in every portion to create space for all the fictional cities heroes tend to inhabit.

Now where exactly these cities are...

If I remember correctly (and that's a big if) Metropolis is up the coast from Chicago and for the most part follows the same sort of pattern as New York's up scale business district. Gotham is somewhere in New Jersey and based off Detroit and Bludhaven is New York with the serial numbers filed off. (Given that there are frequent references made to a Gotham Bay it's not hard to imagine that there are massive changes made to the coastline.)

Star City and Fawcett City are around LA somewhere and the latter is based off New York. Gateway City is within spitting distance of Boston and based off same. While Central/ Keystone city is in one of the states bordering Texas and owe their duality to Saint Paul/ Minneapolis. Four Hero's City is Crab Apple Cove and Coast City is Miami (but it may be on the east coast rather than the west).

[Soras Teva Gee]

If I remember correctly (and that's a big if) Metropolis is up the coast from Chicago and for the most part follows the same sort of pattern as New York's up scale business district. Gotham is somewhere in New Jersey and based off Detroit and Bludhaven is New York with the serial numbers filed off. (Given that there are frequent references made to a Gotham Bay it's not hard to imagine that there are massive changes made to the coastline.)

Star City and Fawcett City are around LA somewhere and the latter is based off New York. Gateway City is within spitting distance of Boston and based off same. While Central/ Keystone city is in one of the states bordering Texas and owe their duality to Saint Paul/ Minneapolis. Four Hero's City is Crab Apple Cove and Coast City is Miami (but it may be on the east coast rather than the west).

Hmm I've not heard the majority of those before and have never heard of a couple of those. Some variances I know:

-Gotham is based on NYC. Like factually. Its one of the old nicknames for the place actually. Gotham is named after Bill Finger decided he didn't want NYC but went and found a "Gotham Jewelers" in the phone book. Is NYC at night while Metropolis is NYC by day.

-Metropolis has a fair bit of being played as close to Gotham, a quasi-canon atlas apparently puts them across the Delaware Bay with Metropolis in Delaware and Gotham in Southern NJ. With A LOT of variation mostly up in NY state. Location inconsistent, but definitely NYC in analogue. The bright and shiny portions to Gotham's dark and scummy.

-Bludhaven was down the road from Gotham, so dependent there. I believe the basic description has always been "Gotham, but worse". uhh Newark to Gotham's NYC?

-Keystone City apparently moved being first though to be in the Keystone State. Plenty of material more recent links it to being next to Central City going back to the resolution of COIE when before they were on separate Earths. Now mostly Kansas City/Kansas City analogue on on the Kansas/Missouri border.

-Fawcett City. Somewhere the upper Mid West but not Chicago.

-Coast City is always California. Apparently at the moment its close to Edwards Air Force Base, which is quite far inland but north of LA IRL. The military connection is suggestive to me of a bit more San Diego then LA, but Southern CA city all the same.

-Gateway City, another in CA. Apparently started by some Russian fur traders so definitely a different coast if this (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Gateway_City) is accurate.

-Star City has apparently settled now as a Northern CA city but started has switched entire coasts and varied a lot more.

Among MANY others some with definite locations like Happy Harbor RI, or the really really silly Sub Diego (guess what happened to a part of San Diego)

Wiki's got a pretty serious list. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_locations_of_the_DC_Universe#Cities_of_the _DCU_Earth)