starting out as 5th level archivist. what spells?

[Venger]

I'm starting in a new game and have the spells known of a 5th level archivist (just the ones from leveling up, no buying spells before the game starts in other words) so I'll have:
3 0s
4 1s
4 2s
2 3s

all from the cleric list. what are spells people suggest having?

I'm afraid I don't know what the rest of the party (3 others including myself, so party of 4) will be rolling, so I'm not sure what other casters will have or if the party will in fact have any other casters. with this in mind, I wanted to "cover my bases" as it was, and have spells that are general utility.

As far as I'd been able to figure, that means:

2nds:
close wounds
lesser restoration

any suggestions from other levels or as 2nds? what are spells that (assuming I'm the only caster) a starting 6th level party will likely need in the field? close wounds in case someone dies, and lesser restoration because poison is uncomfortably common and dangerous at low levels.

[Eonir]

Can they only be cleric? I was under the impression that archivist can cast ANY divine spell.

[Lostbutseeking]

Can they only be cleric? I was under the impression that archivist can cast ANY divine spell.

They can, the spells they get at level one and at level increases are cleric only however.

[Eonir]

Oh I see.

Well I would refer to this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=6n3kbe2jj6n2vsun77ieiqp070&topic=420.msg8434#msg8434).

[LTwerewolf]

What I did when making my archivist (started at 7, so not too far from you) was spend a good chunk of my money on scrolls, and took the time to start scribing them when the game started. The rest i spent on a little mithral armor and wands. Take some of the "staple" spells like cures (so you can use the wands without a problem), and start going with the buffs. How I played my archivist (until i amassed a large array of spells) was as a primary buffer. It worked out well, and during combat i spent my time controlling the battlefield.

[Venger]

What I did when making my archivist (started at 7, so not too far from you) was spend a good chunk of my money on scrolls, and took the time to start scribing them when the game started. The rest i spent on a little mithral armor and wands. Take some of the "staple" spells like cures (so you can use the wands without a problem), and start going with the buffs. How I played my archivist (until i amassed a large array of spells) was as a primary buffer. It worked out well, and during combat i spent my time controlling the battlefield.

thanks for the advice!

like I said, the DM's not letting me enter the game with any scrolls already bought/scribed into my prayerbook, but I likely will be spending my money largely on scrolls (after a decent set of medium armor to wear; mithral fullplate ftw)

are there any armor enhancements that are really worth it? I can laugh at ASF, so I feel that should likely be taken advantage of. Anything I should put on my battlefist? (warning, probably, since it'll always be considered "held" obviously)

I had always heard that since all divine spells are "on an archivist's list" as it were, it can automatically use divine wands without a roll. Is this incorrect? It seems as if this were the intent, they would have UMD, which they do not.

what is good equipment specifically for a low level archivist (besides the famous list of good equipment everyone should have) besides an int booster and aureon's spellshard? the game's eberron (of course) if that helps any.

[LTwerewolf]

For armor enhancements, I usually go for types that keep my character safe vs spells, and use my spells to keep me safe vs physical attack.

You are correct that you can use any divine wand without a roll. It's technically on your spell list. The spell trigger description even says you don't have to actually know the spell yet in order to use the wand. The example they use is a paladin. Don't discount eternal wands for some of those every day buffs you plan to cast.

The reason i paid attention to ASF on my archivist is that i went into wizard as well, and then mystic theurge. Can use pretty much any spell, any scroll, any wand, other than very specific ones, like some of the sorcerer only spells. Even without armor as a pure archivist, you have plenty of spells that can keep you safe without armor, so it's up to you how much you want to spend on it. Pearls of power are also going to be your friend.

[Venger]

You are correct that you can use any divine wand without a roll. It's technically on your spell list. The spell trigger description even says you don't have to actually know the spell yet in order to use the wand. The example they use is a paladin. Don't discount eternal wands for some of those every day buffs you plan to cast.

The reason i paid attention to ASF on my archivist is that i went into wizard as well, and then mystic theurge. Can use pretty much any spell, any scroll, any wand, other than very specific ones, like some of the sorcerer only spells. Even without armor as a pure archivist, you have plenty of spells that can keep you safe without armor, so it's up to you how much you want to spend on it. Pearls of power are also going to be your friend.
that's what I thought.

that sounds cool. I was going to go arch5/renegade mastermaker 10/ landforged walker 5. RM has UMD as a class skill, so if I want arcane stuff it shouldn't be a problem.

I wasn't going to spend a huge amount, just enough to get a decent masterwork set of armor to give me an armor bonus. I'm proficient with medium, so I might as well enjoy AC at low levels when it at least kind of matters.

pearls of power are the best, I'll be sure to see if I can afford one after buying normal equipment

[Suddo]

I would like to point out that if your DM is really lax you can have there be Divine Bards (maybe called Oracle Bard), from Unearthed Arcana, would allow you to get bard spells into your book and wands for it too.

This combined with Paladins can give you some really powerful (and obscure) spells. I personally wish there was a handbook or that I had the go get it attitude to make one.

[Venger]

I would like to point out that if your DM is really lax you can have there be Divine Bards (maybe called Oracle Bard), from Unearthed Arcana, would allow you to get bard spells into your book and wands for it too.

This combined with Paladins can give you some really powerful (and obscure) spells. I personally wish there was a handbook or that I had the go get it attitude to make one.

this DM and I played together in a game where I was a chameleon and our DM allowed me to use divine bard for my divine half. it wasn't exactly game breaking. so since the DM's seen it in practice, I'm pretty sure it'll be allowed

I would recommend the chameleon handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8750.0) for that. it does only go up to 6ths (obviously) but since most of them are pulled from limited casters, it doesn't end up mattering much. divine bard's on here too, so have fun with that.

[ahenobarbi]

Hmm I never played an Archivist but here are some spells my cleric uses that should work for you too:

1: Obscuring mist, Protection from <alignement>, Vigor, Summon Monster 1
2: Luminous Armor, Lesser Restoration
3: Magic Vestment, Bestow Curse, Blindness/Defaness, Dispell Magic
4: Freedom of Movement, Giant Vermin

[LTwerewolf]

If you're not going to be using many touch attack or ray spells, there's not much reason not to use armor you're not even proficient with. You don't suffer failure, and the proficiency only deals with attacks rolls. No attacks and there's no downside to equipping it.

[Draz74]

I would like to point out that if your DM is really lax you can have there be Divine Bards (maybe called Oracle Bard), from Unearthed Arcana, would allow you to get bard spells into your book and wands for it too.

This combined with Paladins can give you some really powerful (and obscure) spells. I personally wish there was a handbook or that I had the go get it attitude to make one.

There is one (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=185.msg611#msg611), although it doesn't cover Bard spells. "Just" Cleric/Domain/Druid/Paladin/Ranger/Adept/Healer/Shugenja/Nentyar Hunter/Emissary of Barachiel/Consecrated Harrier/Disciple of Thrym/Blighter spells. :smalltongue:

I haven't done a careful side-by-side comparison, but I suspect that if you just look at the Cleric section of the list at this link, it will serve you better than the Cleric spell list someone linked to earlier. It just seems like the author knows more what he's talking about, optimization-wise.

[Venger]

If you're not going to be using many touch attack or ray spells, there's not much reason not to use armor you're not even proficient with. You don't suffer failure, and the proficiency only deals with attacks rolls. No attacks and there's no downside to equipping it.

huh? but archivists are proficient with medium armor

There is one (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=185.msg611#msg611), although it doesn't cover Bard spells. "Just" Cleric/Domain/Druid/Paladin/Ranger/Adept/Healer/Shugenja/Nentyar Hunter/Emissary of Barachiel/Consecrated Harrier/Disciple of Thrym/Blighter spells. :smalltongue:

I haven't done a careful side-by-side comparison, but I suspect that if you just look at the Cleric section of the list at this link, it will serve you better than the Cleric spell list someone linked to earlier. It just seems like the author knows more what he's talking about, optimization-wise.

this is true. the cleric handbook is more towards talking about different roles a cleric fills rather than being specifically about spells, and its advice is by no means bad, it just doesn't have as many spells as this list. I haven't seen this one before, thanks.

[LTwerewolf]

May be proficient with medium, but can dump dex and just go ahead and throw on some heavy armor.

[Venger]

I, like many, usually end up going one of the most common routes regarding armor: unarmored if not proficient, mithral chain shirt/breastplate if light, full-plate if heavy, but medium's kind of throwing me. darkleaf banded mail looks like the one that provides the best AC bonus for the lowest cost at +6. I was wondering if I could apply "darkleaf" to full-plate (since like mithral it's treated as one category lighter) since then I'd get another +2 to AC, and could comfortably dump dex entirely. unlike mithral which has a table for how much it costs to make a mithral version of light/med/heavy, I didn't see one in the ECS when talking about darkleaf.

it says it can be applied to heavy armors "made of metal" so I figure full-plate is legal, but I can't find a formula for pricing. taking the cost off the base coas of the sample breastplate/banded mail give 2 different numbers, 2250 for the breastplate and 3k even for the banded mail. since "banded mail" is heavy armor, do I assume that it'd fall in the same pricing bracket? is this worth it since we're using standard starting gold (13k) or should I just go for the darkleaf banded mail and not worry about the 2? I'm eventually going to wind up with ironwood body for landforged walker, which precludes wearing armor anyway, so I don't want to spend too much, but I just want advice about what "too much" is.

[LTwerewolf]

Exactly how much is too much is up to you. If he's going to allow you to start buying scrolls once you start playing, save a good chunk for that and spend your time transferring them.

[Thomasinx]

May be proficient with medium, but can dump dex and just go ahead and throw on some heavy armor.

Don't do this. Remember that if you aren't proficient with an armor, you have to add the armor check penalty to attack rolls and all skill checks involving movement.

This means you add a -6 to all attack rolls (including touch attacks/ranged touch attacks) if wearing full plate you aren't proficient with.

It's generally better to just stick with mithral.

[Venger]

Don't do this. Remember that if you aren't proficient with an armor, you have to add the armor check penalty to attack rolls and all skill checks involving movement.

This means you add a -6 to all attack rolls (including touch attacks/ranged touch attacks) if wearing full plate you aren't proficient with.

It's generally better to just stick with mithral.

that makes sense. I figure you mean the ubiquitous mithral chain shirt. hasn't steered me wrong yet. darkleaf fullplate (if I can apply darkleaf to fullplate) would be treated as medium though, I'm just not sure if it's possible.

[Gavinfoxx]

Get Collegiate Archivist! The feat, to get more spells known.

[LTwerewolf]

Don't do this. Remember that if you aren't proficient with an armor, you have to add the armor check penalty to attack rolls and all skill checks involving movement.

This means you add a -6 to all attack rolls (including touch attacks/ranged touch attacks) if wearing full plate you aren't proficient with.

It's generally better to just stick with mithral.

If you're not using attack rolls, it's not important, and archivists aren't exactly known for their acrobatic feats. It would be different if it were a character regularly in melee, but archivists probably won't be.