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Pandyman
2012-08-28, 12:16 PM
So first, I got pinholed into using the knight class from Player's Handbook 2. I'm currently using feats Deft Defense from The Deft Fighter and Ptah’s Cunning from Ronin The Book of Days both allow you to add your intelligence to your AC as long as you are unarmored and unencumbered. They both clearly note, "This stacks with other dodge bonuses, unless that other bonus specifies otherwise." - Deft Defense, and "This improvement stacks with other dodge bonuses, but comes from your base, unaltered Intelligence score, ignoring temporary increases (such as those granted by the fox’s cunning spell)." - Ptah’s Cunning. And I took the flaw shaky and I'm making use of the defense bonus from Unearthed Arcana Variant. This DM is super lenient with everything but my class. He's making me go knight 20.

My race is Lesser Wispling. At level 1 with my racial modifiers, my stats rolled by my GM are.
Str-14
Dex-20
Con-15
Int-20
Wis-12
Cha-15

AC- 10+Dex+size+Int+Int+shield+Defense bonus= 34

so yeah, I'm focusing on attacks of opportunity, which will make me good against most other fighter-type characters. I do, however, lack the versatility to combat magic and psionic characters. Other than the mage Slayer feat line, what are the suggested stuff I should make use of to combat mages. I'm planning on getting an item to add magical concealment on top of my good AC later, but what else would the playground suggest. Skill tricks, feats, items, etc?

He's also allowing knight variants posted here. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177085

Gavinfoxx
2012-08-28, 12:35 PM
Uhhh...

Do you want to combat, you know...

Minor Arcanists?

Dabblers, two bit necromancers, stuff like that?

Or do you wish to be a credible threat to an actual... you know... Wizard worthy of the title?

Because if you want to be a threat to a competent Wizard... than sorry, there is really nothing the Knight class can do for that purpose.

eggs
2012-08-28, 01:25 PM
Knight kind of sucks at this (it doesn't have any strong survival abilities like Mettle/Evasion/Divine Grace/immunities, any built-in ways of piercing caster defenses or much versatility to go into the high-level game).

Coming off the Knight base, I suspect you'd have some luck with something along the lines of Knight 4/Mystic Fire Knight Paladin 2/Suel Arcanamach 4/Swiftblade 10, Knight 4/Educated Wilder 15/Anarchic Initiate 1 or Knight 4/Sorcerer 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8/Spellsword 1 - all get the Knight's big useful abilities when they're still big and useful ("Hit Me!" and the AoO thing), but they also get abilities that scale well with level, provide some defenses or immunities against the big nasty effects that mages tend to like throwing at people who ask to be attacked and play off the Knight's Charisma score.

If married to the Knight class itself, you might be able to get by with the Mage Slayer line, some Fear speccing (at least Dreadful Wrath + the usual intimidate tricks) and some very serious gear optimization (get immunities to as much as possible, alternate movement and sensory modes and shutdown items like eggshell grenades and sudden stunning weapons).

Pandyman
2012-08-28, 03:52 PM
Uhhh...

Do you want to combat, you know...

Minor Arcanists?

Dabblers, two bit necromancers, stuff like that?

Or do you wish to be a credible threat to an actual... you know... Wizard worthy of the title?

Because if you want to be a threat to a competent Wizard... than sorry, there is really nothing the Knight class can do for that purpose.

I was afraid of the latter, i sorta got forced into it though, so I'm trying to make the best of it.

Gavinfoxx
2012-08-28, 04:03 PM
I was afraid of the latter, i sorta got forced into it though, so I'm trying to make the best of it.

Could you tell us some more details of your precise situation, then?

docnessuno
2012-08-28, 08:39 PM
A very good route (but quite feat-intensive) is:
Mage slayer
Combat reflexes **
Stand still **
EWP: spiked chain (or other reach weapon)
Martial study
Martial stance
Robilar's Gambit

** = Avaiable as a bonus feat for the "Unshakable Soldier" variant.

Combining Stand still, mage slayer, reach and the thicket of blades stance means caster won't be able to do much in your threatened area (except swift/immediate action casting). Standstill combined with reach can also completely shut off melee, and Robilar's Gambit means attacking you is VERY dangerous.

Flickerdart
2012-08-28, 08:44 PM
Are you stuck on the race? Because Hengeiyokai make excellent Knights, since their Sparrow forms have absolutely insane bonuses to both AC and to-hit due to their diminutive size and massive Dexterity. Force everyone to attack you, they will probably miss, and then you counterattack with Confound the Big Folk.

Adamantrue
2012-08-29, 12:18 PM
A very good route (but quite feat-intensive) is:
Mage slayer
Combat reflexes **
Stand still **
EWP: spiked chain (or other reach weapon)
Martial study
Martial stance
Robilar's Gambit

** = Avaiable as a bonus feat for the "Unshakable Soldier" variant.

Combining Stand still, mage slayer, reach and the thicket of blades stance means caster won't be able to do much in your threatened area (except swift/immediate action casting). Standstill combined with reach can also completely shut off melee, and Robilar's Gambit means attacking you is VERY dangerous. Neat...someone is using that Knight project. I gotta get away from the X Box and finish it.

You shouldn't need Thicket of Blades if you have Bulwark of Defense, freeing up 2 Feats from that list (though a different direction with Martial Study/Stance might not be a bad idea).

herrhauptmann
2012-08-29, 12:27 PM
Are you stuck on the race?
There's also Karsite from ToB ToM (human with a template). And Quorbred (another template from Eberron)

So why are you being forced to play knight?

Gwendol
2012-08-29, 12:41 PM
Defensive sweep is good. And I strongly support fear stacking, be it by feat or gear. You might want to look at ability focus to increase the DC of your test of mettle.
Also, you get mounted combat feats, so something like wild cohort can be good (flying mount perhaps).

Venger
2012-08-29, 01:25 PM
Knight kind of sucks at this (it doesn't have any strong survival abilities like Mettle/Evasion/Divine Grace/immunities, any built-in ways of piercing caster defenses or much versatility to go into the high-level game)

One very knight friendly prc is tome of magic's witch slayer. all you need is BA 5 and 4 ranks in religion and sense motive. a 2 level pally of x dip will nab you both of those and cha to saves or cha to AC if you take that one variant that I forget the name of (anyone know it?)

if you go the insurmountable AC route. though if you wanted to do that, you'd be better off doing the abj champ/spellsword thing suggested earlier on.

but if you go, say, knight 3 (for bulwark of defense) pally 2 (for skills and divine grace) then you could enter witch slayer as early as level 6, and that's plenty of time for it to be useful to you:
knight3/pally2/witch slayer 5/ xx10

smite spirit sharer is kind of whatever, DMs don't use binders much since they're so much bookkeeping, but it's very flavorful if your character's backstory is a magic hater. you also get the coveted Mettle ability at 2, which you can only get from pious templar (2 bad feats), hexblade (bad class), or vigilante 9 (ohgodwhy). you get a spidey sense for possessed/binder-style bound creatures, slippery mind (situational, but useful, especially since you get a good will save from this class too) and at the last lvl, 5, momentary disjunction, which you can use as a swift action on an enemy and essentially target them with an AMF for a round. (it's usable every 5 rounds, so be careful) the DC is high, too. while 20+cha isn't an autofail for enemies at level 10, it will certainly make people think twice about messing with you.

you don't really seem to want to gish it up, and that's cool. I'd certainly suggest against it if you're going to take the mage slayer line since they absolutely destroy your caster level. if you took witch slayer, you wouldn't even need to buy the ranks in spellcraft cross-class, so that's pretty cool too.

EDIT: this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109429) might also be of use to you, OP. it's very thorough.

eggs
2012-08-29, 03:21 PM
One very knight friendly prc is tome of magic's witch slayer. all you need is BA 5 and 4 ranks in religion and sense motive. a 2 level pally of x dip will nab you both of those and cha to saves or cha to AC if you take that one variant that I forget the name of (anyone know it?)
I'm with you for the Witch Slayer, but that Paladin ACF (Red Falcon?) is really awful: it trades Divine Grace's always-on, untyped save bonus for a 1/day swift-action-eating 1-round typed AC bonus.

Venger
2012-08-29, 04:33 PM
I'm with you for the Witch Slayer, but that Paladin ACF (Red Falcon?) is really awful: it trades Divine Grace's always-on, untyped save bonus for a 1/day swift-action-eating 1-round typed AC bonus.

I agree with you, I rather enjoy divine grace.