3.5 Warshaper Clerification

[Axier]

Let me see if I have all the information I need on the Warshaper.

Firstly, there are 0LA races that automatically have the abilities on all the time, namely Changling, and my favorite, Hengeyokai. All you need is +4 BAB

Second
,the first level gives you immunity to Stunning and Crits, which also makes you immune to Sneak Attack and other things that follow the same exclusions. It also gives you Morphic Weapons, which is where it all starts going down hill...

Morphic Weapons, as I read it, offers the player the chance to make any number of Natural Weapons, within the obvious limits of the weapons (Specified under the weapon's descriptions, such as Claws requiring one seperate appendage for each, and they are on the hands; Things only have one set of horns, ect.) This of course allows all sorts of cheese on its own, however, I have seen in places where the second ability is used to increase the damage of a newely formed weapon up to colossal.

However, I see the words "If the Warshaper's form already had natural weapons...", which implies that changes made through said ability cannot be increased, and the increase "...deals damage as if it where one size catagory larger" would not allow it to stack with itself (because the medium tenticle you have grown deals damage as a large tenticle, it is still medium, and cannot increase from this again.). Although, as we have seen before, enlarge person, strong arm bracers, and powerful build do stack, but they are not the same methods.
^^^^^^
In short, warshaper can grow any number of weapons. The weapons it wants to empower have to be on the base form to be empowered, and they can only be empowered once by this ability alone

And third, the morphic reach cannot be noticed until used; but is it apparent to EVERYONE engaged with combat in the area, or only the ones really targeted by the warshaper?

Anyone have any further input or change?

*Edit: Warshaper is on Page 89 of Complete Warrior :smalltongue: forgot to put that for reference.

[Urpriest]

The extended reach should become apparent to everyone once used, since the attack itself is not concealed in any way.

As to increasing one weapon's size arbitrarily, it depends on what the weapon is treated as one size larger than: its size, or the size which it was treated as. Regardless, Warshaper cheese typically goes for the unlimited number of natural weapons route, rather than unlimited damage on one particular weapon. Any DM that actually allows Warshaper will houserule some sort of functional cap to the number of natural weapons gained.

[MrRigger]

The cap I use on Warshaper Natural Weapons is one of each kind of natural weapon. So one bite, one claw, one slam, and so on.

MrRigger

[HunterOfJello]

The Morphic Reach ability is clear that, "Unlike most creatures, warshapers don’t appear to have a longer reach until they actually use it."

That implies that warshapers appear to have a longer reach when they do actually use it. However, their limbs are normally of a distance that would imply a short reach instead of a longer one.

~

I haven't heard about this natural attack business using that PrC, so I can't comment on it. I generally just avoid situations of infinite or near infinite attacks for characters, unless they're using Lightning Maces.

~

It's also worth noting that the Hengekokai has a finite number of shapechanges per day and has to be in a modified shape to gain the benefits of the Warshaper class. The reason the Changeling is so popular for it, is that the vast majority of changeling have their Disguise Self ability activated 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and 365 days of the year.
~

Question: Does being immune to critical hits automatically make you immune to sneak attacks?

[TuggyNE]

Question: Does being immune to critical hits automatically make you immune to sneak attacks?

Yes, it does:
Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks.

[Togo]

My reading of the natural weapon ability is that you can add one natural weapon, not any number, or improve one natural weapon by one step.

[Axier]

It's also worth noting that the Hengekokai has a finite number of shapechanges per day and has to be in a modified shape to gain the benefits of the Warshaper class. The reason the Changeling is so popular for it, is that the vast majority of changeling have their Disguise Self ability activated 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and 365 days of the year.


They have a finite number of changes, but they don't have a definite length of time they can or cannot stay shifed, their ability functions as the spell Polymorph Other, which is a permanent effect, and they have no other duration listed under the race ability (although there may be some eratta that I have not seen). It only limits when you can turn into your other forms, but you can stay in the form you want, and a warshaper might as well stay in its hybrid form.


My reading of the natural weapon ability is that you can add one natural weapon, not any number, or improve one natural weapon by one step.

It mentions plurals too often and never specifies a limit, only that you can form natural weapons as a move action.


As a move action, a warshaper
can grow natural weapons such as claws or fangs

If it ever intended one, I would figure it to be mentioned right at the begining, something to the effect of As a move action, a warshaper can grow a natural weapon as a move action, such as a claw attack or fangs for a bite attack., instead it brings up plural claws, and multiple weapons. It doesn't make any notion of a limit further on either.


As to increasing one weapon's size arbitrarily, it depends on what the weapon is treated as one size larger than: its size, or the size which it was treated as. Regardless, Warshaper cheese typically goes for the unlimited number of natural weapons route, rather than unlimited damage on one particular weapon. Any DM that actually allows Warshaper will houserule some sort of functional cap to the number of natural weapons gained.

The weapon is treated as one size larger than, but does not increase its actual size, so you cannot chain it because it never changes the physical size that the increase is originaly based on.

As for a DM making a houserule cap, yeah, but I think I would make it situational, based on the creativity of the ensemble. This is absolutely where DMs HAVE to houserule a limit, unless they are being Tippy or something crazy high op like that. I did the calculations, If I go without food or sleep, I can spend a 24 hours and grow 28.800 tentacle attacks, all with atleast 10ft reach! lol.

Anyway, I also want to find a list of ALL natural attacks, becuase while it references the Monster Manual, it does not restrict the list to those.

Changeling could use this to blend in even better with Rilkans! Arm Spines!