Binder//Sha'ir gestalt build help!

[HunterOfJello]

I'm strongly considering playing a level 12 Binder//Sha'ir gestalt character in an upcoming game and am wondering what everyone here thinks of that idea.

I love the idea of the charisma synergy, don't love the apparent lack of skill points, and like the idea of having both wizard-type spells per day and spammable abilities from the Binder side.

The Zceryll vestige seems godly and the Astaroth vestige excites me because I'll be able to craft any arcane item in the game, as well as some divine ones.

I've looked at these handbooks so far:
Consolidated Binder Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871830/Consolidated_Binder_Handbook)
Binder handbook: Let's make a deal (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2942.0)
Sha'ir Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10153.0)


I have some decent knowledge of the classes, but wanted to get some responses by the class building geniuses on this board.
~

Does anyone have any advice from playing either of these classes before or any specific advice on feats, skills, Prestige classes, or any of that stuff? I would appreciate any help anyone can give.

[Analytica]

This is a great idea. The only one I would favor more would be Shair//Warlock.

[HunterOfJello]

This is a great idea. The only one I would favor more would be Shair//Warlock.

I get that some people like the Warlock, but I just don't understand it. I think the class was written to be sub-par and really doesn't live up to what it should have been. Frank and K's Warlock, on the other hand, is pretty damn awesome. Maybe I've just never seen a properly optimized Warlock in-play.

I would much rather have the Zceryll vestige bound than play a Warlock. Gaining the CA Pseudonatural Template gives better defensive benefits than what a level 12 Warlock would get. The warlock has some halfway decent invocations, but most of them seem lame to me. Bolts of Madness every 5 rounds, Summon Monster VII every 5 rounds, Telepath, Mindsight, AND a whole other vestige of my choice to bind seems like much more fun.

More abilities that are completely at-will would be nice, but I can always grab reserve feats or make buttloads of eternal wands.

Why do you love the Warlock?

[Fouredged Sword]

The great deal maker. I love the idea. I would mix it up a bit with a dip in marshal to pick up a spell boosting aura, and maybe warweaver. You can then cast spells into the weave and store them for when you need them. It saves the Sha'ir from having to have his buffs on hand at all times.

[HunterOfJello]

The great deal maker. I love the idea. I would mix it up a bit with a dip in marshal to pick up a spell boosting aura, and maybe warweaver. You can then cast spells into the weave and store them for when you need them. It saves the Sha'ir from having to have his buffs on hand at all times.

Which 'spell boosting' aura are you refering to? I might end up dipping into marshall for that sexy and hell "Bonus on rolls to overcome spell resistance" equal to my charisma modifier. Getting a +8 to +10 to overcome SR would be godly. Especially since it affects allies too.

There's already a War Weaver in the party and it will likely be a party of 2. If I got into War Weaver (or Marshall), then i'll have to give up Recaster. I don't want to lose more than 1 level of Sha'ir spellcasting, and I need a full 12 level in Binder progression to get what I need.

Some kind of progression into a spellpool would likely be good. I'm going to take another long look into the Mage of the Arcane Order prc.


*edit*

Actually, your suggestion has inspired me to take Sha'ir 3/Mage of the Arcane Order 4/Recaster 5. At least, that's my current build idea.

[kardar233]

Keep in mind that due to Sha'ir's unique casting method he can benefit from classes that advance divine spellcasting as well as the usual arcane ones.

Allows crazy builds like:

1. Archivist1//Sha’ir1
2. Archivist2//Sha’ir2
3. Archivist3//Whirling Frenzy Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian1
4. Archivist4//Sha’ir3
5. Cloistered Cleric1//Sha’ir4
6. Dweomerkeeper1//Sha’ir5
7. Dweomerkeeper2//Mindbender1
8. Dweomerkeeper3//Bone Knight1
9. Warblade1//Bone Knight2
10. Ruby Knight Vindicator1//Incantatrix1
11. Ruby Knight Vindicator2//Incantatrix2
12. Ruby Knight Vindicator3//Incantatrix3
13. Bone Knight3//Raumathari Battlemage1
14. Bone Knight4//Ruby Knight Vindicator4
15. Bone Knight5//Ruby Knight Vindicator5
16. Ruby Knight Vindicator6//Bone Knight6
17. Bone Knight7//Ruby Knight Vindicator7
18. Ruby Knight Vindicator8//Dweomerkeeper4
19. Spelldancer1//Ruby Knight Vindicator9
20. Bone Knight8//Ruby Knight Vindicator10

[Psyren]

There really isn't much to say. Sha'ir is extremely powerful, and a Cha focus makes Binders just as powerful.

I do have two suggestions:

First, find out from your DM how he plans to handle spell dissipation. (i.e. when a Sha'ir retrieves a spell, it stays available for 1 hour/Sha'ir level then dissipates; you should find out whether dissipating frees up the slot for a subsequent retrieval, or counts as the prepared spell being wasted. You should also find out if you can voluntarily empty your slots, or if they are locked in until dissipated.)

If your spells stay locked in, and if dissipating lets you reuse the slot, shorter retrieval times can actually be better (as you get to swap your slots halfway through the day and aren't stuck with any spells.) This means you'll want to prestige out of Sha'ir sooner rather than later to keep the clock down. But if dissipation costs you spell slots, you'll want more Sha'ir levels so you don't risk losing an early spell randomly during the day.

Second, I wouldn't worry too much about SR - your Binder side ignores it, so you'll always have a way to deal with high-SR opponents. Late-game you can revisit the Marshal dip (because Improved Binding stops being useful at 18 or so.)