[WIP] New Vestiges (3.5e) PEACH

[NPC White Mage]

Well, in the game I'm currently involved in, I've been playing a Binder / Warlock, but I've been finding the limited choices in vestiges disappointing and ineffective. They seem to be fantastic in certain situations, but in standard combat they fall flat. So, my DM and I decided that I should try my hand and some Homebrew vestiges.

This is my first ever Homebrew anything, and further more, it is my first thread here, so any and all suggestions are desired. Like the title says, PEACH!

Without further ado...Vestiges.

I'll admit, I made a mistake looking over the Binder class in ToM when building my character, and didn't realize the scope of power of 8th level Vestiges.

If anyone could help me rework Tiamat to better fit a Vestige of 8th level, it would be greatly appreciated!


CHANGELOG

8/30/2012- Any Blue text is the fixed version the text, and will be in the final iteration of the vestige. I am leaving both the black text and the blue text so that it is easier to determine what has been changed and compare it to the previous versions.
8/30/2012-Changed Tiamat's Fly
8/30/2012-Changed Tiamat's Sign
8/30/2012-Added Ythulk'xoraan's Legend
8/30/2012-Added Ythulk'xoraan's Special requirement
8/30/2012-Added Ythulk'xoraan's Manifestation


{table=head]Index
{table=head]Level | Name | Bind DC | Spec Req
8th | Tiamat, The Vile Influence | 30 | Yes
? | Ythulk'xoraan, Herald of Insanity | ? | Yes
[/table][/table]



Tiamat, The Vile Influence*
(Under reconstruction)
Vestige Level: 8th
Binding DC: 30
Special Requirement: Yes

Legend: Also known as the Daughter of Khyber,Tiamat embodies the evil that lurks in the heart of every dragon, and thus has the power to corrupt dragons. Chromatic dragons are the most vulnerable to her wiles, but every dragon can fall prey to her influence.

During the Age of Demons, Tiamat was bound below Argonnessen. In the Pit of Five Sorrows she stirs and rouses dark emotions in the heart of dragonkind. Like in all things, evil is a powerful force, and cannot remained bound forever. Indeed the Talons of Tiamat, a cult devoted to the evil being, has developed a way of summoning forth an avatar of Tiamat's will through the strange and misunderstood methods of Pact Magic.

Special Requirement: After drawing Tiatmat's sign, you must place within a vial of dragon's blood plugged with a stopper made from a dragon's fang.

Manifestation: Tiamat's vanity and arrogance shines through in her choice of manifestation. From the seal erupts a single element related to one of the chromatic dragons. The Sign glows a moment before erupting in Tiamat's choice of element. Only a single head of Tiamat appears amidst the illusonary element, with its neck disappearing into the ground. The color of the head, as well as the element that accompanies it is dependent on each other.

While Tiamat is summoned, she may be inclined to answer the Binder's questions about Dragons. Although her answers may not be the truth, as she is a fickle being. Once the pact has been made and Tiamat has given over her sign to the Binder, the head looses a mighty roar and attacks the Binder with a bite that would easily swallow a large creature. As the dragon's maw closes around the Binder, the vestige dissappears, leaving the Binder with her sign and abilities.

In order to determine which of Tiamat's 5 heads appears upon binding, the Binder rolls a d10 along with her normal binding check.

Roll | Element | Color
1-2 | Pillar of Fire | Red Dragon
3-4 | Spire of Ice | White Dragon
5-6 | Lightning Strike | Blue Dragon
7-8 | Geyser of Acid | Black Dragon
9-10 |Acidic Mist | Green Dragon


Sign: Tiamat's sign appears as a spiked ridge along the Binder's back. The spikes are colored the same as Timat's choice of Chromatic Dragon when she manifested. The spikes are sharp and will tear through any clothing used to cover them. When the vestige is dispelled, anything torn by the spikes is returned to normal.

The spikes can be supressed for 1d4 + Binder levels in round, but after that time limit, the spikes must surface.

Tiamat's sign appears as a pair of leathery Dragon wings, colored to the chromatic dragon Tiatmat appeared as. The wings cannot fit in normal clothing or armor, whereas magical equipment reshapes to accomodate the wings.

If the wings are somehow damaged or removed, they instantly grow back. Any attacks made to the wings do not damage the Binder.

Influence: (WIP)

Granted Abilities
Tiamat provides the Binder with her knowledge of dragons and the ability to dominate them in combat.

Chromatic Immunty: When the pact is made, the Binder chooses one of the 4 Chromatic elements (Fire, Ice, Acid, or Lightning). While bound to Tiamat, the Binder gains Immunity to the selected element.

Deific Knowledge: Tiamat's great wealth of knowlege benefits the Binder and grants a +10 on Knowledge (Arcana /History / Religion)

Dragon-God's Resolve: Tiamat grants the Binder, and any ally within 30 ft of her, immunity to a Dragon's Frightful Presence.

Mind of the Dragon: When fighting a Dragon, Tiamat provides the Binder with useful knowledge of dragons. This knowledge manifests as a +2 to attack rolls, Damage rolls, and on all saves against dragons.

Fly: Summoning forth the most renowned abilities of Dragons, the Binder can take to the sky just as skillfully as the scaly beasts. The Binder gains flying 60ft for 1 round. Once this has been used it cannot be used again for 5 rounds.

The wings Tiatmat grants to her Binder are not only for looks but can also be used to take to the skies as easily as the dragons can. The Binder gains flying with average manuverability with a speed equal to twice her base land speed. While airborne, the Binder gains Frightful Presence as a dragon. Once the binder lands, she cannot take flight again for 5 rounds.

This ability cannot be used if Tiamat's sign is not shown.


Ythulk'xoraan, Herald of Insanity*

Vestige Level: ???
Binding DC: ???
Special Requirement: Yes

Legend: After the Daelkyr War, a group of druids known as Gatekeepers emerged to hold back the denizens of Xoriat, the plane of madness. The Daelkyr and their aberrations were kept in check by these Gatekeepers, and the plane of Xoriat no longer posed a great threat to the material plane of Eberron.

As the years passed, the magical seals holding shut the path from Xoriat to Eberron began to weaken, and occasionally one of the horrors of that maddening plane would make its way to Eberron. This is where the Gatekeepers came in. Using their powers, they would force what ever horror came from the realm of insanity back from where it came. Sealing it away once more.

Even though the Gatekeepers were vigilant and steadfast in their charge, it wasn't possible to stop the ebb and flow of time from wearing away the magic that sealed the god of madness. One fateful day, a young Gatekeeper known as Kal'Gor, and his companions, were confronted by Vyrhulk, a wicked Daelkyr who managed to slip through into Eberron.

The conflict was over before Kal'Gor knew it had begun, and all the few of his companions that were still alive were writhing on the ground in mental agony, or had been turned into an aberration.

That was when the madness set in. Kal'Gor soon lost himself in a vortex of impossible patterns and inconceivable shapes. With his mortal eyes he glimpsed the very fabric of Xoriat and was sent into the pits of insanity. It seemed like years passed by as the young orc floated in a sea of madness, and when he finally found a shard of sanity, he clung to it like a drowning rat to a piece of drift wood.

Through that slice of sanity he managed to escape back into reality and found that no more than a day had passed; however, he discovered that his mind was not the only thing affected by the mad god. He found that his body had been warped into that of an Illithid, an aberration, the very thing he had sworn to destroy! Along with his new form he also felt another conscious, something dark and impossible to understand.

With his sense of sanity and self regained, he realized than in becoming an Illithid, the Daelkyr blessed him with an immense intellect, as well as abilities far beyond that of a typical Gatekeeper. He had access to telepathic powers, untapped magic, and so much more.

Using his superior intellect he hunted down Vyrhulk and confronted him. Now, with his immense intellect as well as abilities, Kel'Gor bested the Daelkyr in a horrible game of wits, and ended up swallowing his master's brain, absorbing the intellgence of the Daelkyr. All at once, the fragment of insanity that plagued the Illithid's mind vanished. Instantly the Illithid regained his full sanity, but lost his memories from before he was warped into an aberration. With his new intellect, and free will, he decided to become a scholar and study Eberron and all its aspects.

Ythulk'xoraan lives in the mountains of Drooam,sealed in a tower on his own accored. He moves about Eberron via portals, but tends to remain hidden, engrossed in his studies.

Special Requirement: Ythulk'xoraan's sign must be drawn on the back of a chair with black ink.

Manifestation: Ythulk'xoraan like to pass himself off as a distinguished scholar, and as such, prefers to have his sign drawn on a chair so he may sit while he speaks with his Binder. At times, he may also require the Binder to sit so they may have a civilized conversation.

There is no fantastic or awesome visual effect when the Illithid appears, nor is there an ominus sound, or anything of the like. Instead, he simple appears, sitting in the chair the sign is drawn on, as though he had been sitting there the entire time.

He is wearing the same robes most Mind Flayer wear, but he also wears a strange little hat; Something a scholar might wear. He chooses to speak whatever language is the Binder's primary language, but can also choose to speak to the Binder telepahically should he desire.

Ythulk'xoraan is prone to idle conversation about mundane life in Eberron and must be often reeled in to focus on the conversation at hand.

Once the pact has been made, Ythulk'Xoraan stands and shakes the Binder's hand. But, also takes the opportunity to latch onto the Binder's head with his tentacles, but instead of extracting her Brain, this is how the Vestige imparts his abilities to the Binder.

The Mind Flayer leaves in the same manner he arrived. Suddenly and without warning.
Sign:
Influence:
Granted Abilities

*Designed for Eberron setting.

[NPC White Mage]

Edited main post.

If anyone could help me with reworking Tiamat to better fit an 8th Level vestige it would be much appreciated! :D

[Vauron]

A few points:

First: the clause on Tiamat's sign you added is pointless. Binders already can suppress signs without them suddenly breaking through. Additionally, the line about the spikes returning would also be turned of by the Suppress Sign class feature.

Second: You need to include the maneuverability of the fly speed. Also, lets put it into context: Greyon is a 5th level vestige which allows you to fly for a round at a speed of 60ft and perfect maneuverability. At level 17 perma-flight has long been available to anyone who really wants it. Perhaps just change the sign to draconic wings based on the head that Tiamat greeted you with, and give an Average maneuverability fly speed equal to twice your land speed.

Third: When writing up vestiges, I suggest you start with thematic abilities appropriate to your vestige, and only decide on the level once you already have locked down your abilities. Here is a link to a guide to writing up vestiges. (http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp%3Fx%3Ddnd/dd/20060407a)

Fourth: Mind of the Dragon doesn't really feel appropriate. If anything, I'd expect a Dragon vestige would grant powers akin the those possessed by dragons, like a breath weapon or Frightful Presence.

Fifth: Ythulk'xoraan is the Herald of Sanity in the table, but not in the writeup below.

[Kellus]

Hey, first up, welcome to the Homebrewing boards! It's a lot of fun, glad you're putting yourself out there! :smallsmile:

Anyway, on to the vestige:

This is pretty cool! It's obvious that you really know the lore behind Tiamat and the chromatic dragons, the manifestation is really interesting! Vauron's right that the sign can already be suppressed, so you probably don't need to include that clause unless it's a new rule. In general you don't really need two rules for the same effect, since it usually just mixes people up. That being said, don't be afraid to challenge established rules if you have a better idea!

In general I agree that it's not really powerful enough to justify an 8th level vestige. You have the pattern (1/5 round active abilities and some passive benefits) down pat, but it's just a little underwhelming– especially for channeling an avatar of the dragon goddess.

I could think of a few things to punch it up a little bit. For example, you get to choose an elemental affinity based on dragon colour. Maybe you could go further with that. Maybe you could shapechange (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm) into the appropriate kind of dragon for the situation. Or gain a breath weapon of some kind, or even all five that Tiamat controls. For example, there's a super-cool breath ability that the dragonfire adept in Dragon Magic gets, the Fivefold Breath of Tiamat, which is essentially five breath weapons in one. Think about all the cool things that Tiamat represents, and how you could represent those as character options that someone would really enjoy using at high levels of play.

Otherwise, there's definitely nothing wrong with lower-level vestiges, either. More people will have a chance to play stuff at lower levels, so a lot of the time it's better to aim for a low-level option for accessibility.

A few other rules quibbles here: like Vauron mentioned, fly speeds always have a maneuverability associated with them, from clumsy to perfect.

Chromatic Immunity is kind of cool, but it might be nice to be able to realign yourself during combat as well, if you run into another energy type. Kind of an adaptive immunity, if you will. In the same vein, these effects are always classified as "energy" types, not "elements". I know it's a minor quibble, but terminology is important for the game to run smoothly.

Anyway, awesome first crack at homebrew, definitely beats the pants off my first homebrew anything! :smalltongue:

[NPC White Mage]

A few points:

First: the clause on Tiamat's sign you added is pointless. Binders already can suppress signs without them suddenly breaking through. Additionally, the line about the spikes returning would also be turned of by the Suppress Sign class feature.

Second: You need to include the maneuverability of the fly speed. Also, lets put it into context: Greyon is a 5th level vestige which allows you to fly for a round at a speed of 60ft and perfect maneuverability. At level 17 perma-flight has long been available to anyone who really wants it. Perhaps just change the sign to draconic wings based on the head that Tiamat greeted you with, and give an Average maneuverability fly speed equal to twice your land speed.

Third: When writing up vestiges, I suggest you start with thematic abilities appropriate to your vestige, and only decide on the level once you already have locked down your abilities. Here is a link to a guide to writing up vestiges. (http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp%3Fx%3Ddnd/dd/20060407a)

Fourth: Mind of the Dragon doesn't really feel appropriate. If anything, I'd expect a Dragon vestige would grant powers akin the those possessed by dragons, like a breath weapon or Frightful Presence.

Fifth: Ythulk'xoraan is the Herald of Sanity in the table, but not in the writeup below.

Yeah, Tiamat fell flat. Reason being was that I was too afriad of making her an overpowered Vestige that I actually shot myself in the foot with it.

So, I'm in the process of reworking her now.

I completely forgot about the Suppress Sign class feature that Binders get. I had been looking at another Vestige when I made the sign, and it forces you to show the sign after so many rounds. I might make the sign a full pair of dragon wings, and include under the Fly ability (which I love your suggestion for) that you cannot use it unless you show Tiamat's sign.

Well, the reason I added in Mind of the Dragon is because Tiamat is the corruptive influence on dragons. The cause of a Dragon's evil, as such, I thought it would be fitting to grant the ability to easier defeat a dragon. My logic train may be flawed in that sense though. I'll give it some more thought, but a breath weapon does seem rather interesting. I don't know how that most basic of draconic abilities seemed to slip by me. lol. I was trying so hard I couldn't see the trees through the forest...er couldn't see the scales through the dragon rather.

Simple typo. Ythulk'xoraan is still in the works. One I realized that I have done Tiamat wrong, I decided to hold back the other vestige and give him a proper and second look to see if he is adequate. My conclusion was that he was not, and needs to be reworked, and in light of the new work I've done on him, his Vestige level may end up being lowered to 4 or 5 instead of 7.

Your post really helped me a lot, thanks!


Hey, first up, welcome to the Homebrewing boards! It's a lot of fun, glad you're putting yourself out there! :smallsmile:

Anyway, on to the vestige:

This is pretty cool! It's obvious that you really know the lore behind Tiamat and the chromatic dragons, the manifestation is really interesting! Vauron's right that the sign can already be suppressed, so you probably don't need to include that clause unless it's a new rule. In general you don't really need two rules for the same effect, since it usually just mixes people up. That being said, don't be afraid to challenge established rules if you have a better idea!

In general I agree that it's not really powerful enough to justify an 8th level vestige. You have the pattern (1/5 round active abilities and some passive benefits) down pat, but it's just a little underwhelming– especially for channeling an avatar of the dragon goddess.

I could think of a few things to punch it up a little bit. For example, you get to choose an elemental affinity based on dragon colour. Maybe you could go further with that. Maybe you could shapechange (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm) into the appropriate kind of dragon for the situation. Or gain a breath weapon of some kind, or even all five that Tiamat controls. For example, there's a super-cool breath ability that the dragonfire adept in Dragon Magic gets, the Fivefold Breath of Tiamat, which is essentially five breath weapons in one. Think about all the cool things that Tiamat represents, and how you could represent those as character options that someone would really enjoy using at high levels of play.

Otherwise, there's definitely nothing wrong with lower-level vestiges, either. More people will have a chance to play stuff at lower levels, so a lot of the time it's better to aim for a low-level option for accessibility.

A few other rules quibbles here: like Vauron mentioned, fly speeds always have a maneuverability associated with them, from clumsy to perfect.

Chromatic Immunity is kind of cool, but it might be nice to be able to realign yourself during combat as well, if you run into another energy type. Kind of an adaptive immunity, if you will. In the same vein, these effects are always classified as "energy" types, not "elements". I know it's a minor quibble, but terminology is important for the game to run smoothly.

Anyway, awesome first crack at homebrew, definitely beats the pants off my first homebrew anything! :smalltongue:

Thanks for the welcome!

I like the idea, as stated above, for a breath attack, and the fivefold sounds like a perfect idea; however, the part of your post that struck me with the most inspiration was the Adaptive immunity idea. I have a few ideas floating around in my head for that, nothing established though. Maybe when you get hit with one of the chromatic elements, you gain an immunity to that element for X amount of rounds...*shrug* I'll give it some thought and run it by my DM on sunday and see what he thinks about it, and if he has any suggestions.

I appreciate the feedback, and am working hard to improve these vestiges. (Ears are currently leaking steam) and hopefully (provided work doesn't get in the way) I'll have the improved version of Tiamat posted over the weekend.

[TopCheese]

I like it, doesn't seem to be powerful enough though. Please note it has been a while since I looked into ToM but...

My problem is that Vestiges are powerful (ish) beings not of any world. They are also never dieties since clerics get their power from them. Some vestiges were gods at one point or close but something went wrong...

What I suggest is doing a fluff on Io being split up into Bahamut and Tiamat but Io soul/essence still lingered onward with no place to go... So it went to the same place as the other vestiges.

This would give go well with the current fluff and make clerics/paladins of Bahamut and Tiamat hate you haha. Binders don't seem to be well liked by good or evil clerics that much.

Anyways..

Dragon Mind should be beefier for a level 8. Perhaps give them some bonuses like "against all dragons oposite of your allignment L/C or G/E you may reroll 3 rolls/round. This effect can only be used once every 5 rounds". This can be a an offensive or defensive ability.

The immunity to frightful presence could use a boost. "And 1 ally/3 EBL" perhaps?

[NPC White Mage]

I like it, doesn't seem to be powerful enough though. Please note it has been a while since I looked into ToM but...

My problem is that Vestiges are powerful (ish) beings not of any world. They are also never dieties since clerics get their power from them. Some vestiges were gods at one point or close but something went wrong...

What I suggest is doing a fluff on Io being split up into Bahamut and Tiamat but Io soul/essence still lingered onward with no place to go... So it went to the same place as the other vestiges.

This would give go well with the current fluff and make clerics/paladins of Bahamut and Tiamat hate you haha. Binders don't seem to be well liked by good or evil clerics that much.

Anyways..

Dragon Mind should be beefier for a level 8. Perhaps give them some bonuses like "against all dragons oposite of your allignment L/C or G/E you may reroll 3 rolls/round. This effect can only be used once every 5 rounds". This can be a an offensive or defensive ability.

The immunity to frightful presence could use a boost. "And 1 ally/3 EBL" perhaps?

I do understand that Vestiges are kind of "in-betweeners" but the DM I am working with said that for the Eberron setting (at least ours) this didn't have to apply to ALL vestiges. In fact, a living being that is powerful enough can have a Binder summon an apperation of that being to make a pact with, such is the case with Tiamat in Eberron (Being bound beneath Argonnessen she is still alive) and Ythulk'xoraan, he is still alive, but has such a huge intellect and psionic ability that he can be summoned by a Binder as well.

I know what ToM says, but this was for the sake of Eberron, adding interest, and allowing more options for Vestiges.

[NPC White Mage]

EDIT

Fixed(?) two of Tiamat's entried, and added a few things for Ythulk'xoraan.

Added a changelog in main post

As always, PEACH!