Intelligent item with a goal

[Blue1005]

I have a LE intelligent weapon that is designed to oppose and slay LG toons. It wearer is LN. How would the Item be able to manipulate the toon(PC) to do its bidding? The item is more intelligent and has more charisma, only afew points lower on wisdom. The goal is to get the toon to swing to LE and align with the ring. Any ideas are welcome.

[the_archduke]

subtle suggestions that any good pc is actually CN. A few senseless acts of violence later... bam... LE

[Psyren]

Are you playing 3.5 or Pathfinder? The rules for intelligent items are slightly different.

The answer to your specific question, however, is the same in both:


When a personality conflict occurs, the possessor must make a Will saving throw (DC = item’s Ego). If the possessor succeeds, she is dominant. If she fails, the item is dominant. Dominance lasts for one day or until a critical situation occurs (such as a major battle, a serious threat to either the item or the character, and so on). Should an item gain dominance, it resists the character’s desires and demands concessions such as any of the following.

- Removal of associates or items whose alignment or personality is distasteful to the item.
- The character divesting herself of all other magic items or items of a certain type.
- Obedience from the character so the item can direct where they go for its own purposes.
- Immediate seeking out and slaying of creatures hateful to the item.
- Magical protections and devices to protect the item from molestation when it is not in use.
- That the character carry the item with her on all occasions.
- That the character relinquish the item in favor of a more suitable possessor due to alignment differences or conduct.

In extreme circumstances, the item can resort to even harsher measures, such as the following acts:

- Force its possessor into combat.
- Refuse to strike opponents.
- Strike at its wielder or her associates.
- Force its possessor to surrender to an opponent.
- Cause itself to drop from the character’s grasp.

Naturally, such actions are unlikely when harmony reigns between the character’s and item’s alignments or when their purposes and personalities are well matched. Even so, an item might wish to have a lesser character possess it in order to easily establish and maintain dominance over him, or a higher-level possessor so as to better accomplish its goals.

The first list is a list of typical demands the item may make of the character if it achieves dominance. The second list is actions the item can take if its demands are not being met. I could see an evil item doing any of the things on that second list - it's up to the DM to choose an appropriate one for the situation, keeping in mind the item's goals, craftiness, and special purpose (if any.)

[Blue1005]

Are you playing 3.5 or Pathfinder? The rules for intelligent items are slightly different.

The answer to your specific question, however, is the same in both:



The first list is a list of typical demands the item may make of the character if it achieves dominance. The second list is actions the item can take if its demands are not being met. I could see an evil item doing any of the things on that second list - it's up to the DM to choose an appropriate one for the situation, keeping in mind the item's goals, craftiness, and special purpose (if any.)


It is for 3.5 and i have read the rules. I can dominate the player I know. My goal is to get him to actually change his alignment and become more useful. If i dominate him into evil eventually he will make his save and take off the ring. Instead, i would want to slowly change him to evil. Thus my dilemma because LN seems difficult to change based on the PHB description.

[killianh]

LN characters are a step closer to LE than LG so it should actually be easier. If you're the DM create some grey area encounters where the item pushes the character to continue down a certain path, and due to the apparent grey area the player follows along. If the item's choices are orderly and end up benefiting the character, the character's player will hopefully begin to take note of the suggestions the item makes. Willingly agreeing to follow the demands of evil is evil.

Why does the PC need to become LE?

[ThiagoMartell]

Everytime someone calls their characters 'toons' I die a little inside

[Blue1005]

LN characters are a step closer to LE than LG so it should actually be easier. If you're the DM create some grey area encounters where the item pushes the character to continue down a certain path, and due to the apparent grey area the player follows along. If the item's choices are orderly and end up benefiting the character, the character's player will hopefully begin to take note of the suggestions the item makes. Willingly agreeing to follow the demands of evil is evil.

Why does the PC need to become LE?

The item is designed to slay and oppose opposite alignment (LG) and I dont think that a LN character will do that. At least not this one.

And why is toon bad????

[killianh]

If its the neutral side of the character you're having problems with then it seems that you need to focus on the Law side. Create encounters wherein the player has the choice of slaying the good guy for the sake of law, or an adventure that involves an "ends justify the means" solution.

Truthfully though its something you could actually talk to your player about. The D&D alignment system is flawed and restrictive and if character decision are being made based on that rather than the alignment being chosen to best suit the character at hand then there are some RP problems usually.

The bad thing about calling a character a "toon" is that it shows a level of detachment from the characters. detachment usually means less involvement which in turn means less role playing which is the point of a table top RPG.

[Malroth]

Unless you're playing Toon the roleplaying game in which case its okay

[TuggyNE]

And why is toon bad????

It smacks of MMOs and offhandedness. In point of fact, I don't even use it when playing MMOs, because it sounds so lame to me. (I use "alt" or "char" instead.)

Suffice it to say, it's very much an acquired taste that many people haven't acquired.

As far as the actual topic, I'm not sure why you need to change the character's alignment if the item can generally get them to do what it wants. If it can't get them to do what it wants, how would it change their alignment? (Also, an item that provides an extremely useful function, or one that is perceived to be extremely useful, is much less likely to be abandoned by its owner.)

[Psyren]

It is for 3.5 and i have read the rules. I can dominate the player I know. My goal is to get him to actually change his alignment and become more useful. If i dominate him into evil eventually he will make his save and take off the ring. Instead, i would want to slowly change him to evil. Thus my dilemma because LN seems difficult to change based on the PHB description.

The item can't force the player to be evil. It can seriously screw with him, and perhaps continuing to wield it knowing that it might randomly attack innocents could be a black mark on his record, but it can't supernaturally change his alignment or anything like that.


Everytime someone calls their characters 'toons' I die a little inside

"Can I get a buff in case we go back to pwning their d00ds? kthx" :smallwink:

[Mando Knight]

The item is designed to slay and oppose opposite alignment (LG) and I dont think that a LN character will do that. At least not this one.

You don't quite understand. Why does the character need to follow the item and kill LG characters? IMO, forcing a player to change his character's alignment so he'll be more willing to do something you want him to do can be one of the worst things you can do, and it's generally at its worst when you're pushing him towards more Evil or Chaotic, as that implies the task is going to be disruptive to the party or reprehensible to the player.

That said, falls toward Evil are best accomplished with temptation. Appeal to the character's Lawful tendencies and twist them. Encourage "frontier justice" and disproportionate retribution for perceived wrongs (i.e. use the death penalty for everything), and so forth.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Make it so if anyone detects alignment on him, it shows them the ring's alignment instead of his own. This should lead to no end of trouble from the LG churches, police, inquisitors, etc.

Intelligent items get to take their own actions separate from the wearer, and they can activate their own special abilities. If his ring can produce a Lightning Bolt, it can fire it off in a random direction to kill some bystanders and bring some LG guards running, to force the PC into a confrontation with them. Of course, make it use whatever abilities it has to aid him a few times first so he'll want to keep the item around.


From Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=toon) (site contains bad words):
Toon
The most annoying thing you can ever call one of your video game characters, often used in World of Warcraft by tools.

[elonin]

I recommend the subtle approach. Chip away at the character's reasoning for his actions unless it matches what the item wants. The Elric series handled intelligent magic items well.

[2xMachina]

Maybe let the item limit it's usefulness? Let the item tell the toon that it needs to kill LG for the item to powerup.

Say, it's normally a +3 save ring. If the toon has killed an LG in the last week, it becomes a +4 save ring. If the toon has killed an LG in the last day, it gets some extra power.