Q: Disarm countermeasures

[darioun]

hi there!

just a quick question: is disarm in 3.5 RAW books really that broken?

while the DM is "loading" we often do test fights between our chars. one of them is fighting with a spiked chain, giving a +2 to disarm. additionally, he has the improved disarm feat giving him a +4 on the disarm check und no AoO when he tries a disarm attack.
furthermore, most of us fight with one handed weapons, giving him another +4 on the disarm check, so a +10 all in all...
since he's got reach with the chain and combat reflexes, he uses the disarm attack as AoOs, so when we try to attack, he simply disarms us and if that doesn't work, he uses his chain and improved trip to trip and hit us in his next turn.

is there nothing we can do about it?

AC bonus is disregarded, dodge bonus does not count (though it should), no mobility bonus (which should also count), nothing... i know that locked gauntlets give +10 against disarm, but then you can't do magic... anything else?

any suggestions?

all the best, darioun

[ahenobarbi]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Locked_Gauntlets

[darioun]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Locked_Gauntlets

*plonk*, already mentioned that in my post.

[Larpus]

Not strict 3.5, but if it's too big of an issue, you can also ask your DM to port this one (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/weapon-and-armor-accessories#TOC-Weapon-Cord).

Not a game breaker, but it really helps in recovering the weapon, and trying to break the cord is a sunder attempt.

Still, the guy has reach, so it'll be an uneven fight regardless if it's one on one and terrain is not really being accounted for.

[darioun]

Not strict 3.5, but if it's too big of an issue, you can also ask your DM to port this one (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/weapon-and-armor-accessories#TOC-Weapon-Cord).

Not a game breaker, but it really helps in recovering the weapon, and trying to break the cord is a sunder attempt.

Still, the guy has reach, so it'll be an uneven fight regardless if it's one on one and terrain is not really being accounted for.

nice idea, thanks! will definitively suggest that to the DM.

[Duke of URL]

I don't think it's broken, per se. He's put the vast majority of his character resources into optimizing disarm (and trip, apparently), so he's going to be good at it.

You just need to find ways to not fight on his terms. Ranged attacks, for one. If you're worried about disarms on approach, don't draw a weapon until the end of your move (doesn't help against trip, of course). Find ways to avoid AoOs, such as making him flat-footed, using Tumble for movement, etc.

[Gwendol]

Just tumble in and grapple him. Or use magic, it works against everything else in the game. Heat metal perhaps?

[KillianHawkeye]

Wear spiked gauntlets or put spikes on your armor. No disarms now.

Or find a way of increasing your size or Strength (or Dexterity if you have Weapon Finesse). Anything you can do to mitigate his bonuses.

[Psyren]

One of you could try fighting unarmed to counter. Kung-fu it up with Unarmed Swordsage/Tashalatora Monk, or unleash the beast with Totemist/Druid. Either way, disarm worries are a thing of the past.

For your casters, get Eschew Materials (it's a good idea to get it anyway) and their material components can't be taken away.

[Eldan]

The problem is: anything without a weapon, such as most monsters, will just not care.

[docnessuno]

i know that locked gauntlets give +10 against disarm, but then you can't do magic... anything else?

You need a single free hand to cast spells with somatic components. Wear a locked gauntlet in the hand carrying your weapon, and leave your other hand free.

[ahenobarbi]

AC bonus is disregarded, dodge bonus does not count (though it should), no mobility bonus (which should also count), nothing... i know that locked gauntlets give +10 against disarm, but then you can't do magic... anything else?


http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Locked_Gauntlets


*plonk*, already mentioned that in my post.

Ah I didn't notice. I don't know why would you like to get close to the character and then cast spells (as opposed to casting when being far away), but...

Lesser Crystal of Return costs just 1000 gp and allows you to:
- Draw weapon as free action (so you can draw it after you get close (so he can't make disarm attempts before you get close)).
- Call the weapon (if unattended) to your hand from up to 30ft as move action.

If you want full-attacks combine with Belt of Battle (12'000gp) to convert swift action into move action 3/day.

Both items from MiC.

[ahenobarbi]

Also what character do you have? Cleric might just cast Ice Axe and not care. If you have lots of gold to use on this you could get Brilliant Energy weapon. You might polymorph into many-headed hydra and not care etc.

[Randomguy]

There are a few builds that specialise in fighting with a cursed sword. Just carry a dagger as well as that, and draw it when he disarms your sword, and the sword reappears in your hand instead of the dagger.

The real downside to disarming is that it's kind of niche: It doesn't really matter if you disarm a caster, and there are loads of monsters (and a few builds) that don't even use weapons.

Doesn't it say that if you're wearing spiked gauntlets you can't be disarmed? Or does it mean that you can't be disarmed of the gauntlets?

[ahenobarbi]

Doesn't it say that if you're wearing spiked gauntlets you can't be disarmed? Or does it mean that you can't be disarmed of the gauntlets?

No, PHB and SRD say


Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of spiked gauntlets.

[KillianHawkeye]

Alternatively, play a Soulknife. Not really.

:smallbiggrin:

[Randomguy]

No, PHB and SRD say

Yes, but under disarm they say:

Note: A defender wearing spiked gauntlets can’t be disarmed.

Which implies that they can't be disarmed of the weapons they're wielding, not just the gauntlet. But they probably just worded it badly here.

[ahenobarbi]

Note: A defender wearing spiked gauntlets can’t be disarmed.



Yes, but under disarm they say:
Which implies that they can't be disarmed of the weapons they're wielding, not just the gauntlet. But they probably just worded it badly here.

I'm impressed by bad wording there.

[GnomeGninjas]

Use a two-handed weapon? You'll do more damage and you won't get disarmed as easily.

[danzibr]

Alternatively, play a Soulknife. Not really.

:smallbiggrin:
Or Totemist.

[ericgrau]

It's one of those things that's extremely good... when it applies at all. Don't ignore improved disarm if you fight a lot of humanoids, but otherwise it's useless.

That's why it's totally fair, because it's only spectacular some of the time. Thus the best defense is to not worry about it too much because on the flipside not too many smart foes will have it unless the DM is unreasonable. Maybe get a weak backup weapon or 3 or spiked armor.

Even for arena duels not every foe uses a weapon, so it's hard to build around too much and you shouldn't expect too many opponents to have it. If they do, it did cost them resources that could be put elsewhere and they likely won't even make it to you unless you got an unlucky first match-up. In that case, well, not even the best legal build can expect to dominate every type of foe in the world anyway unless they all suck.

It's working well against you since your party is 100% humanoids. What happens in the campaign depends on your enemies.