Pathfinder Melee Witch

[Lord Tyger]

So, I'm going to be playing a Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor in an upcoming campaign, and, given that I'll be playing an archetype that pretty much requires me to prioritize constitution, I figured why not go whole-hog and build a melee-capable witch. Half-Orc weapon proficiencies mean I can pick up a Greataxe or Falchion without burning a feat, and I figure Arcane Strike is a must to offset the fact that I'm at less than full BAB, but does anyone have any other suggestions for feats/hex/spell selection?

Let's assume that I know that melee power is not the optimal way to build a witch for pure power, and go with it.

[The Redwolf]

There's an archetype called White-Haired witch where you grow your hair out and use it to attack with and as you level up it gains increased reach and such, that might be worth looking into.

After going to the SRD I see that the Scarred Witch Doctor is already an archetype and that White-Haired Witch loses hexes, so that's two reasons against it.

[Akal Saris]

As a sidenote, I think the archetype is only available to full Orcs.

My own build went for 1 level of Unarmed Fighter to pick up improved unarmed strike and the dragon style feat, and then I took Hex Strike at level 3 or so.

[Andvare]

As a sidenote, I think the archetype is only available to full Orcs.

Well it depends on whether or not you think archetypes are an "effect" :smallwink:


Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.

RAW is that archetypes are only for the races stated, unless specifically stated otherwise. I think. But racial subtypes in the ARG states that you are a member of any race that you have a subtype in.

There's some confusion on the subject:

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5ygp?Racial-Heritage-and-Archetypes

Edit: More fuel to the fire:


If a feat or other character option has a prerequisite of "elf subtype", then a half-elf would qualify, as half-elves have both the human and elf subtypes. If, however, something requires a character to be of the elf race, then only elves need apply, as half-elves aren't elves, rather half-elves.

That is from PFS though, so YMMV.

Edit2: From the FAQ


Can a human with the Racial Heritage feat take levels in an archetype that requires you to be of a specific race?

Yes, the Racial Heritage feat allows you to qualify for archetypes that have the chosen race as a requirement, assuming you still meet all of the other requirements to take levels in the archetype.

—Jason Bulmahn, 07/27/12

I am now, thoroughly, on the fence.

[Chained Birds]

If it is true that a Human could simply exchange his Bonus Feat (For the Racial Heratige Feat) to gain access to the Scarred Witch Doctor Achetype, then that might be the best option. An Orc is a -2 Race anyways, so having a +2 in the stat of your choice (Con) would really be helpful.

[Lord Tyger]

I talked it over with my GM when I first started planning, and at least for purposes of this game, it works with a half-orc.

[NamelessNPC]

I've been thinking about this as well. I think the Strength patron may be the better for a melee combatant.
Also, looking at the Hexes there's not really anything to benefit you, so maybe you should also get the Hedge Witch archetype, which let's you cast cure spells spontaneously (Even if they aren't spells known!) and transfer poison or disease effects from your allies to yourself, which isn't that big of a deal, but hexes won't help you either.

[grarrrg]

I've been thinking about this as well. I think the Strength patron may be the better for a melee combatant.
Also, looking at the Hexes there's not really anything to benefit you, so maybe you should also get the Hedge Witch archetype, which let's you cast cure spells spontaneously (Even if they aren't spells known!) and transfer poison or disease effects from your allies to yourself, which isn't that big of a deal, but hexes won't help you either.

Actually, some Hexes can be quite useful.

Evil Eye can reduce targets AC or Saving Throws (amongst other things), granted, it's a Standard action, but it can last up to 3+INTCON rounds.

Nails gives you 2 Secondary Claw attacks, likewise Prehensile Hair is another attack that uses INTCON for to-hit and Damage, and it has reach! Even if you are holding a weapon, that's still 2 extra attacks per round.

Slumber is 1-target Sleep with no HD limit.

And there are a variety of Major Hexes that can be good as well (Agony, Retribution,...)

[NamelessNPC]

Actually, some Hexes can be quite useful.

Evil Eye can reduce targets AC or Saving Throws (amongst other things), granted, it's a Standard action, but it can last up to 3+INTCON rounds.

Nails gives you 2 Secondary Claw attacks, likewise Prehensile Hair is another attack that uses INTCON for to-hit and Damage, and it has reach! Even if you are holding a weapon, that's still 2 extra attacks per round.

Slumber is 1-target Sleep with no HD limit.

And there are a variety of Major Hexes that can be good as well (Agony, Retribution,...)

Yeah, you are quite right. I was assuming he was going to PrC out as soon as possible, because that's what I had planned for my Orc Witch. By the way, being a full Orc is probably better for a melee witch.

[Arbane]

Yeah, you are quite right. I was assuming he was going to PrC out as soon as possible, because that's what I had planned for my Orc Witch. By the way, being a full Orc is probably better for a melee witch.

I don't think there currently are any good PrCs for Witches. None I've seen advance Hexes, which are their second-best trick (next to spells).

[Larpus]

Just realized that Witch Doctor half-orc + Prehensile hair finally allow me to make Bobobo (http://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/bobobo_bobo_bobo11.jpg), which is awesome.

But yeah, sadly there's no good PrCs for Witches as mentioned, because if you're not using hexes, it becomes questionable why you're not a Wizard instead (though in this particular case, the Con to casting might be enough to justify).

Still, considering you're going for a specific concept that isn't at all doable with the standard chassis due to BAB issues, I'd try to homebrew one, maybe based on Dragon Disciple.

Or maybe homebrew a feat or hex that allows you to use HD as BAB for melee attacks.

[grarrrg]

Still, considering you're going for a specific concept that isn't at all doable with the standard chassis due to BAB issues, I'd try to homebrew one, maybe based on Dragon Disciple.

Actually, you can use Dragon Disciple as-is.
It only needs 1st Level Spontaneous Arcane as a pre-req.
But it will advance any Arcane casting (and gets +2 CON at level 6)
1 level of Bard/Sorcerer/Summoner and you're in (bonus if your DM uses Fractional Bab!).


I don't think there currently are any good PrCs for Witches. None I've seen advance Hexes, which are their second-best trick (next to spells).

You are correct in that there are no "witch flavor" PrC's, but if you're going for a Gish-Witch (say that 3 times fast) it shouldn't much matter.
There are enough "No-Save" Hexes that will still be useful even if you PrC out early: Nails, Prehensile Hair, Healing, Cauldron, Disguise, etc... Granted some of them have a duration based on Witch level, but you'll (presumably) have 5+ Witch levels, so it shouldn't be much of an issue.