3.5 heironeous help.

[robertbevan]

we've got a game starting up tomorrow night. i'm going to be playing a cleric for the first time in... well maybe forever. i don't remember.

i chose heironeous as my diety. i'll be going for an obnoxiously righteous hard-ass who thinks more along the lines of 'fighting evil' than 'achieving good through piece and harmony'.

the domains i chose were 'good' and 'war'.

i'm starting off at first level, and only using core books.

can anyone recommend any good ways to take advantage of my domains?

i chose 'combat casting' and 'improved turning' as my feats (i'm human). were those good choices?

thanks!

[killianh]

self buff, then beat the piss out of anything that comes your way. Thematically you'll also want some battle field control on your side as well. The good domain is usually best for defences against evil and some good boosts to fighting it, and War domain IIRC is mostly about buff and fight

EDIT: for feats drop improved turning (unless this is a heavily undead themed campaign you're in) and grab improved initiative. With the kinds of spells the cleric gets even in core, a battle can be over much quicker if they get to act early

[Akto]

we've got a game starting up tomorrow night. i'm going to be playing a cleric for the first time in... well maybe forever. i don't remember.

i chose heironeous as my diety. i'll be going for an obnoxiously righteous hard-ass who thinks more along the lines of 'fighting evil' than 'achieving good through piece and harmony'.

the domains i chose were 'good' and 'war'.

i'm starting off at first level, and only using core books.

can anyone recommend any good ways to take advantage of my domains?

i chose 'combat casting' and 'improved turning' as my feats (i'm human). were those good choices?

thanks!

As Killianh said, self buff is the way to go, especially stuff like Divine Power and righteous might are extremly good, personnely i love quicken spell on my melee clerics, so i can both cast and attack same round, but might be less viable without DMM.

Else try and bribe your DM (Hard) to allow Ordained champion prestige class from Complete champion, it's really awesome, and is fluffed as being a divine champion of Heironues, so fluffwise, it would be a perfect fit

[robertbevan]

for feats drop improved turning (unless this is a heavily undead themed campaign you're in) and grab improved initiative. With the kinds of spells the cleric gets even in core, a battle can be over much quicker if they get to act early

thank you. would this advice be the same if i mentioned that my dex is only a 9?




Else try and bribe your DM (Hard) to allow Ordained champion prestige class from Complete champion, it's really awesome, and is fluffed as being a divine champion of Heironues, so fluffwise, it would be a perfect fit

thank you too. i'll have a talk with the DM before i qualify for that. he said he wants to start with core only. for anything beyond that, he'll judge it on a case by case basis. thanks for the tip, though. i just looked it up, and it looks really cool.

[Akto]

thank you. would this advice be the same if i mentioned that my dex is only a 9?


thank you too. i'll have a talk with the DM before i qualify for that. he said he wants to start with core only. for anything beyond that, he'll judge it on a case by case basis. thanks for the tip, though. i just looked it up, and it looks really cool.

Personnaly i would still recommend improved ini, just because going first is always important, and you could use the boost, when you are starting off with a -1 base :smalltongue:

If you are already trying to talk your DM into allowing Ordainded champion, it might also be worth considering the reserve feat Holy Warrior from the same book, it is a nice boost on a melee focused cleric IMO, especially with war domian, as that gives you extra spells that can power the feat

[killianh]

Definitely take improved Initiative. Just out of curiosity what does your current build look like? what level?

Also other than it being good for PrCs (which it sounds like you're not going to have goo access to) drop combat casting and pick up Skill focus (concentration) it will do about the same, but end up more usable in more situations

[robertbevan]

Just out of curiosity what does your current build look like? what level?




here is a cut and paste without having taken any of your advice yet. let me know if you spot anything else. (i deleted the skills because they didn't cut and paste well... i maxed out 'heal', 'concentration', and 'knowledge:religion'.)

*******************************

Justice Simon von Sinslayer
Male Human Cleric 1
Lawful Good
Representing Bob

Strength 11 (+0)
Dexterity 9 (-1)
Constitution 15 (+2)
Intelligence 10 (+0)
Wisdom 15 (+2)
Charisma 10 (+0)
Size: Medium
Height: 5' 11"
Weight: 175 lb
Eyes:
Hair:
Skin:
Domains: Good War

Energy: Positive [Healing / Turns Undead]

Total Hit Points: 10

Speed: 20 feet

Armor Class: 16 = 10 + 5 [chainmail] + 2 [heavy steel] -1 [dexterity]

Touch AC: 9
Flat-footed: 16
Initiative modifier: -1 = -1 [dexterity]
Fortitude save: + 4 = 2 [base] + 2 [constitution]
Reflex save: -1 = 0 [base] -1 [dexterity]
Will save: + 4 = 2 [base] + 2 [wisdom]
Attack (handheld): + 0 = 0 [base]
Attack (missile): -1 = 0 [base] -1 [dexterity]
Grapple check: + 0 = 0 [base]

Languages: Common
Longsword [1d8, crit 19-20/x2 4 lb, one-handed, slashing]

Chain mail [medium; + 5 AC; max dex + 2; check penalty -5; 40 lb.]

Heavy Steel Shield [ + 2 AC; check penalty -1; hardness 10; hp 20; 15 lb.]

Feats:

Combat Casting
Improved Turning
Weapon Focus x1 Weapon(s):
Weapon Focus [war domain, sect weapon]


Zero-level Cleric spells: 3 per day



First-level Cleric spells: 2 (1 + 1) per day + 1 from a domain:



Human

Extra feat at first level (already included)
Four extra skill points at first level (already included)
One extra skill point at each additional level (already included)
Cleric
Alignment Aura

Spontaneous Casting (heal)

Turn Undead (3x/day)

High wisdom gains bonus spells daily

Domain choices give additional abilities

[eggs]

With that stat distribution, I'd look at debuffing/summoning/buffing other party members as a default combat option, at least until long durations and quickened spells make self-buffing more practical.

On Combat Casting, you'd probably be better off with Skill Focus: Concentration - it's almost the same bonus, but it applies way more often (and in situations where a 5ft step is less likely to obviate the need of the bonus entirely).

[Keld Denar]

You can't get into OC until level 5 anyway, so you will have 4 levels of straight cleric to get used to the game. You already have nearly all of the prereqs filled. Just keep the Knowledge Religion and Concentration up as you level, and you will be good.

[docnessuno]

With that kind of stats i would consider makein the character middle-aged (-1 to all physical stats, +1 to all mental ones). Your str/dex/con modifiers wouldn't hange at all, but your wiss would be bumped to 16.

[robertbevan]

With that kind of stats i would consider makein the character middle-aged (-1 to all physical stats, +1 to all mental ones). Your str/dex/con modifiers wouldn't hange at all, but your wiss would be bumped to 16.

the character's backstory involves him being young and impetuous. we'll see how game time passes.

[Garwain]

If you want to be more an utility caster, consider scribe scroll. Otherwise there are only a few feat actually interesting for a cleric. You could amplify your good spells by taking spell focus: good, but that's only because there is nothing better in core. You'd be better off taking prerequisite feats for the PrC you want to enter.

[ahenobarbi]

If you want to be more an utility caster, consider scribe scroll. Otherwise there are only a few feat actually interesting for a cleric. You could amplify your good spells by taking spell focus: good, but that's only because there is nothing better in core. You'd be better off taking prerequisite feats for the PrC you want to enter.

I think it's a bad idea. Firstly Spell Focus (Good) is non-core (it's from BoED IIRC). Secondly there are very few spells with [Good] descriptor in core (and they don't benefit much from increased Save DCs).

[ahenobarbi]

Strength 11 (+0)
Dexterity 9 (-1)
Constitution 15 (+2)
Intelligence 10 (+0)
Wisdom 15 (+2)
Charisma 10 (+0)


You'd benefit from being middle aged as someone pointed out (but if you want the character to be young it isn't a must)



Longsword [1d8, crit 19-20/x2 4 lb, one-handed, slashing]

Chain mail [medium; + 5 AC; max dex + 2; check penalty -5; 40 lb.]

Heavy Steel Shield [ + 2 AC; check penalty -1; hardness 10; hp 20; 15 lb.]


If you can afford buy a sling (in case you want to attack from distance) and morning star (as backup weapon).



Feats:

Combat Casting
Improved Turning
Weapon Focus x1 Weapon(s):
Weapon Focus [war domain, sect weapon]


Skill Focus (Concentration) is better than Combat Casting.
Skip improved turning - with low charisma your character will not be good at turning undead (and it doesn't work right at higher levels anyway) replace it with Improved Initiative or Scribe Scroll (so you will have scrolls of that rarely-used but sometimes life-saving spells available).