Nightmares as mounts

[ILM]

So I'm building an archetypal Dark Knight (ECL in the 8-12 range) and I figured this guy needs to ride a flaming demonic horse from hell. Unfortunately, the only way I found to do that was to get the Leadership feat and attract one, or more likely a Lesser Nightmare from the Planar Handbook. They still have a total ECL of 9, which puts me at a minimum level of 11. If I want to combine cohort and mount, that's another +2 LA per DMG rules, so I need a minimum character level of 13. That's rather over where I need this guy to be. Do I have any other options?

oh, important edit: I'm going with a chassis of Paladin of Tyranny or Slaughter, and will avoid Blackguard (due to some spellcasting-related ACFs and feats I need to use, and that don't apply to Blackguard casting).

[Pilo]

In fact, Nightmare are ECL10 (6HD+4LA as a cohort (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm)).

You may look at Phantom Steed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantomSteed.htm) as a base for your mount. Maybe as a magic item like a custom Figurines of Wondrous Power that will, unlike the others, not suck, or a spell-like ability that replace "Special mount".

If what you want is only cosmetic, maybe you can ask your DM to allow it, as paladin's mount are special and become magical beast.

[ILM]

In fact, Nightmare are ECL10 (6HD+4LA as a cohort (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm)).
Lesser Nightmare has 1 less LA.

[Piggy Knowles]

Seriously, nightmares are insanely powerful... Two 9th level spells at will is no joke, considering how easy they are to attain.

Any how, their HD is low enough to be valid options for Lesser Planar Binding/Ally. If you can UMD a scroll or pay someone to cast it for you, that will probably be your easiest option.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Obsidian Steed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#obsidianSteed)



Obsidian Steed

This figurine appears to be a small, shapeless lump of black stone. Only careful inspection reveals that it vaguely resembles some form of quadruped. On command, the near-formless piece of obsidian becomes a fantastic mount. Treat it as a heavy warhorse with the following additional powers usable once per round at will: overland flight, plane shift, and ethereal jaunt. The steed allows itself to be ridden, but if the rider is of good alignment, the steed is 10% likely per use to carry him to the lower planes and then return to its statuette form. The statuette can be used once per week for one continuous period of up to 24 hours. Note that when an obsidian steed becomes ethereal or plane shifts, its rider and his gear follow suit.

Thus, the user can travel to other planes via this means.

Strong conjuration and transmutation; CL 15th; Craft Wondrous Item, animate objects, etherealness, fly, plane shift; Price 28,500 gp.


Not sure if you can afford it at those levels though.

[Urpriest]

First, it's almost never worthwhile to take the +2 LA option to make the creature your special mount, because the added HD will almost always push you beyond the cap anyway. In this case, ECL 11 would become at least 13 for a Paladin of level 5-7 due to the 2 bonus HD, and would increase the higher your effective Paladin level.

You've still got the option of just taking it as a cohort, but as you mentioned that requires you to be level 11-12, at the upper range.

As mentioned, asking your party caster to use Planar Ally or Planar Binding will work fine, provided you offer a good enough deal.

Planar Handbook says that Blackguards can use Lesser Nightmares at the cost of a step down on the advancement table, essentially. I would guess that the only reason that sidebar doesn't address paladins is because the writers didn't remember the existence of Paladin of Tyranny. I would allow the same deal for a Paladin: count yourself as two levels lower, and add two fewer bonus hit dice. That's not RAW, but it does seem a reasonable houserule.

[Deepbluediver]

How open are you to other options? For example, take a normal horse, then add the Fire-creature template and say you Gated it in from the elemental plane. You get most of the same visual appeal, but without the ridiculously high-level requirements or problems to deal with for an actual Nightmare.


Option B: make your Dark Knight a halfling, and have him ride a Nightmare-version of one of these guys (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pygmy%20horse&gbv=2&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi). Lower the CR or ECL as appropriate to account for reduced speed and ability scores. :smalltongue:

[Urpriest]

How open are you to other options? For example, take a normal horse, then add the Fire-creature template and say you Gated it in from the elemental plane. You get most of the same visual appeal, but without the ridiculously high-level requirements or problems to deal with for an actual Nightmare.

I think if he had access to Gate, he could just Gate in a Nightmare.

[LanSlyde]

While nightmares are the typical choice for blackguards and whatnot, might I suggest you look into the Ecalypse from Manual of the Planes: page 170?

They kick the crap out of nightmares any day.

[Deepbluediver]

I think if he had access to Gate, he could just Gate in a Nightmare.

Ok, you gotta work to meet me half-way here; since the OP didn't specify how he was getting ahold of his intended mount, I assumed it wasn't terribly important.

A Nightmare is a high-level intelligent outsider, so it seems like it would still be easier to get a flaming-horse and ring of energy protection than it would be to dominate or ally with a free-willed hellbeast.

[Urpriest]

Ok, you gotta work to meet me half-way here; since the OP didn't specify how he was getting ahold of his intended mount, I assumed it wasn't terribly important.

A Nightmare is a high-level intelligent outsider, so it seems like it would still be easier to get a flaming-horse and ring of energy protection than it would be to dominate or ally with a free-willed hellbeast.

The other side of the coin is that horses don't have level adjustment, so if you don't have some sort of Gate/Planar Ally/Planar Binding spell available, the flaming horse will have little motivation to hang around, since it can't, unlike the lesser nightmare, be a cohort.

[LanSlyde]

A Nightmare is a high-level intelligent outsider, so it seems like it would still be easier to get a flaming-horse and ring of energy protection than it would be to dominate or ally with a free-willed hellbeast.

Indeed, which is why I still advocate the Ecalypse. Plane Shift your way to the Plane of Shadow, find one, mount it, beat the DC30 ride check. If you win you now have the best horse ever as a loyal steed.

[Deepbluediver]

The other side of the coin is that horses don't have level adjustment, so if you don't have some sort of Gate/Planar Ally/Planar Binding spell available, the flaming horse will have little motivation to hang around, since it can't, unlike the lesser nightmare, be a cohort.

I assumed that a flaming horse is just like a normal horse, except for the whole "being on fire" thing, meaning it could be tamed and trained with a few Handle Animal checks. Even if you convert it to a magical beast it would still only have an animal's intelligence.

[Black Cross]

Depending on how much of your precious gold you're willing to part with, there's always the option of the Horseshoes of Flame from the Savage Species; even if that book is a bit of a taboo around these parts, the equipment is still handy. Though, at character level 8th, they are entirely unaffordable due to starting WBL of 27,000gp. Still, it's an option, and it can keep your horse a "Nightmare" for 21 hours out of the days, so...

Horseshoes of Flame: An ordinary horse wearing these
horseshoes may transform up to three times per day, for up
to 7 hours each time, into a creature resembling a nightmare.
The transformation happens when the owner of the
horseshoes speaks the command word. Another command
word transforms the horse back to its normal form. Speaking
the command is a free action, but the transformation
takes a standard action. When transformed, the horse gains
a fly speed of 90 feet (good), +1d4 points of fire damage on
each successful hoof attack, +2 Dexterity, +10 Intelligence,
and +6 Charisma. A blow from the transformed horse’s
hooves sets combustible materials alight.
Caster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, polymorph
other; Market Price: 30,240 gp. Weight: 2 lb. each.

They're on page 57, should you want to check them out for yourself to make sure I didn't flub anything. Also, barring that, I'm quite sure the Arms and Equipment Guide had something in it about Nightmares as mounts. However, I could be mistaken.

[LanSlyde]

Depending on how much of your precious gold you're willing to part with, there's always the option of the Horseshoes of Flame from the Savage Species; even if that book is a bit of a taboo around these parts, the equipment is still handy. Though, at character level 8th, they are entirely unaffordable due to starting WBL of 27,000gp. Still, it's an option, and it can keep your horse a "Nightmare" for 21 hours out of the days, so...

Horseshoes of Flame: An ordinary horse wearing these
horseshoes may transform up to three times per day, for up
to 7 hours each time, into a creature resembling a nightmare.
The transformation happens when the owner of the
horseshoes speaks the command word. Another command
word transforms the horse back to its normal form. Speaking
the command is a free action, but the transformation
takes a standard action. When transformed, the horse gains
a fly speed of 90 feet (good), +1d4 points of fire damage on
each successful hoof attack, +2 Dexterity, +10 Intelligence,
and +6 Charisma. A blow from the transformed horse’s
hooves sets combustible materials alight.
Caster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, polymorph
other; Market Price: 30,240 gp. Weight: 2 lb. each.

They're on page 57, should you want to check them out for yourself to make sure I didn't flub anything. Also, barring that, I'm quite sure the Arms and Equipment Guide had something in it about Nightmares as mounts. However, I could be mistaken.

http://i.imgur.com/dYBbi.png

[Dusk Eclipse]

Umm the thread necromancy rules kick in after 6 weeks.... it has been 2.

[LanSlyde]

Umm the thread necromancy rules kick in after 6 weeks.... it has been 2.

Don't care. |^_^|

Considering he's never online I'm allowed to give my friend grief.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Ok..... if you say so.

[Black Cross]

I'm online everyday, I just rarely post since posting from a phone is irritating and time consuming. Regardless, I hate necromancers and would never indulge in such a horrid practice as defiling poor threads to swell the numbers of my secret army. Thus, this discussion is silly and quite off topic. n.n Free e-cheesecake for everyone! *throws e-cheesecake*