Kholai
2012-08-30, 11:40 AM
The other thread has descended to ignominity, and due to my excessive rambling was a CR 73 encounter as threads go.
So, in my quest to rework the magic system for E6; Save or Sucks must be reworked.
Issue 1: They're usually binary.
Either the mage is winning harder than Charlie Sheen, or they've wasted a turn and some resources on doing absolutely nothing.
Issue 2: They're incredibly powerful.
When they work, they're the only thing worth doing. You're not fighting the Dragon, you're holding out until the dragon rolls a 1 on its Fort save against Death so the wizard can save the day again.
Issue 3: They break the idea of improvement through levelling.
A level 20 Fighter still has a 5% chance of instantly dying to a Slay Living cast by a level 9 Cleric. A level 40 Dragon ditto.
So in response, the Scaling rule:
(S) Scaling
If the Saving Throw line ends with "(S)," the spell has different effects depending on how far the spell was succeeded or failed by. See the spell's text for details.
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 10 or more | XXX
Failed by 5 or more | XXX
Succeeded by less than 5 | XXX
Succeeded by more than 5 | XXX[/table]
With this, Blindness / Deafness becomes:
You call upon the powers of unlife to assault a target's senses, causing them to be blinded or deafened at your choice for 1 round per caster level unless they make a fortitude save.
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 10 or more | Duration is permanent.
Failed by 5 or more | Duration is 1 minute / level.
Succeeded by less than 5 | Target is dazzled for 1 round / caster level.
Succeeded by more than 5 | Target is dazzled for 1 round.[/table]
Hold Person/Animal/Monster:
The subject becomes pinned in place for 1 round and entangled for 1 round / caster level. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Whilst effected by this spell, on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity), this second saving throw is not subject to Scaling.
A winged creature who is pinned cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown.
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 10 or more | Subject is instead paralysed for 1 round / caster level.
Failed by 5 or more | Subject instead pinned for 1 round / caster level.
Succeeded by less than 5 | Target is entangled for 1 round / caster level.
Succeeded by more than 5 | Target is entangled for 1 round.[/table]
And the aforementioned Slay Living would be:
Fortitude Partial (S)
You can attempt to slay any one living creature. You must succeed on a melee touch attack to touch the subject and deal 1D6+1 damage / caster level (to a maximum of 15D6+15).
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 10 or more | Target is killed instantly.
Failed by 5 or more | Target takes an additional +2 damage / caster level.
Succeeded by less than 5 | Target takes only 3D6 damage + 1 / caster level.
Succeeded by more than 5 | Target takes only 1 damage / caster level.[/table]
Scaling could even replace Reflex save for 1/2, if you're feeling saucy:
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 20 or more | This subject takes 1.5 times the maximum possible damage dealt by the spell (so a 10D6 fireball would deal 90 damage to the subject).
Failed by 10 or more | This subject takes an additional 50% damage from the spell.
Succeeded by less than 10 | Target halves the damage taken from the spell.
Succeeded by more than 10 | Target takes no damage from this spell.[/table]
In a system with Scaling, Evasion and Mettle would be changed to improve the scaling effects of the spell by 1 step; whilst Improved Versions thereof would improve always consider the save to have been minimally successful.
A natural 1 means that you automatically fail, but doesn't mean that you automatically take the worst possible effect. Likewise, a natural 20 means that you automatically succeed, but don't necessarily get away scot-free.
Plus side:
- High level players are no longer viably threatened by low level spells, high enough saves mean
- Keep trying until it rolls a 1 is no longer a viable strategy.
- Low level play is moderately more balanced.
- Mages are drastically less swingy.
- More powerful effects remain in the system without dominating it.
- Less powerful effects reward the mage even when their target saves, lowering their median power but upping their mean power.
- Pumping saves and pumping DCs is still a viable mage tactic.
Down side:
- Save bonuses become more important to keep track of.
- The extra mathematics involved may be too much for some.
- Killing the Tarrasque just became that much harder.
- Probably some other stuff I haven't thought of.
So, in my quest to rework the magic system for E6; Save or Sucks must be reworked.
Issue 1: They're usually binary.
Either the mage is winning harder than Charlie Sheen, or they've wasted a turn and some resources on doing absolutely nothing.
Issue 2: They're incredibly powerful.
When they work, they're the only thing worth doing. You're not fighting the Dragon, you're holding out until the dragon rolls a 1 on its Fort save against Death so the wizard can save the day again.
Issue 3: They break the idea of improvement through levelling.
A level 20 Fighter still has a 5% chance of instantly dying to a Slay Living cast by a level 9 Cleric. A level 40 Dragon ditto.
So in response, the Scaling rule:
(S) Scaling
If the Saving Throw line ends with "(S)," the spell has different effects depending on how far the spell was succeeded or failed by. See the spell's text for details.
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 10 or more | XXX
Failed by 5 or more | XXX
Succeeded by less than 5 | XXX
Succeeded by more than 5 | XXX[/table]
With this, Blindness / Deafness becomes:
You call upon the powers of unlife to assault a target's senses, causing them to be blinded or deafened at your choice for 1 round per caster level unless they make a fortitude save.
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 10 or more | Duration is permanent.
Failed by 5 or more | Duration is 1 minute / level.
Succeeded by less than 5 | Target is dazzled for 1 round / caster level.
Succeeded by more than 5 | Target is dazzled for 1 round.[/table]
Hold Person/Animal/Monster:
The subject becomes pinned in place for 1 round and entangled for 1 round / caster level. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Whilst effected by this spell, on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity), this second saving throw is not subject to Scaling.
A winged creature who is pinned cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown.
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 10 or more | Subject is instead paralysed for 1 round / caster level.
Failed by 5 or more | Subject instead pinned for 1 round / caster level.
Succeeded by less than 5 | Target is entangled for 1 round / caster level.
Succeeded by more than 5 | Target is entangled for 1 round.[/table]
And the aforementioned Slay Living would be:
Fortitude Partial (S)
You can attempt to slay any one living creature. You must succeed on a melee touch attack to touch the subject and deal 1D6+1 damage / caster level (to a maximum of 15D6+15).
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 10 or more | Target is killed instantly.
Failed by 5 or more | Target takes an additional +2 damage / caster level.
Succeeded by less than 5 | Target takes only 3D6 damage + 1 / caster level.
Succeeded by more than 5 | Target takes only 1 damage / caster level.[/table]
Scaling could even replace Reflex save for 1/2, if you're feeling saucy:
{table=head]Save | Effect
Failed by 20 or more | This subject takes 1.5 times the maximum possible damage dealt by the spell (so a 10D6 fireball would deal 90 damage to the subject).
Failed by 10 or more | This subject takes an additional 50% damage from the spell.
Succeeded by less than 10 | Target halves the damage taken from the spell.
Succeeded by more than 10 | Target takes no damage from this spell.[/table]
In a system with Scaling, Evasion and Mettle would be changed to improve the scaling effects of the spell by 1 step; whilst Improved Versions thereof would improve always consider the save to have been minimally successful.
A natural 1 means that you automatically fail, but doesn't mean that you automatically take the worst possible effect. Likewise, a natural 20 means that you automatically succeed, but don't necessarily get away scot-free.
Plus side:
- High level players are no longer viably threatened by low level spells, high enough saves mean
- Keep trying until it rolls a 1 is no longer a viable strategy.
- Low level play is moderately more balanced.
- Mages are drastically less swingy.
- More powerful effects remain in the system without dominating it.
- Less powerful effects reward the mage even when their target saves, lowering their median power but upping their mean power.
- Pumping saves and pumping DCs is still a viable mage tactic.
Down side:
- Save bonuses become more important to keep track of.
- The extra mathematics involved may be too much for some.
- Killing the Tarrasque just became that much harder.
- Probably some other stuff I haven't thought of.