Brainstorming for an Assassin Handbook

[eggs]

I've been tinkering with a preliminary Assassin (class) handbook for a while, but since it's a relatively popular PrC with material buried all over 3e, I want to solicit some input from other posters before I cobble the thing together.

I'm going to try to keep this thread moving by going through the various elements of Assassin-building (race, base classes, other prestige classes, spells, magic items). But I'd welcome any clever builds, combos or new finds that you've dug up, even if they're not the topic I'm trying to plug at any time.

The first element is Races:

There are some of these that really have me on the fence, either out of ambivalence or unfamiliarity with their associated content (like racial feats, classes and so on). I'd love to get some secondary input.

So what do you think about these races in an Assassin build, and what would you do with them?

--Daelkyr Half-Blood

--Kobold (especially with web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)+desert (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) variants)

--Shifter

--Drow (especially acknowledging the LA+0 savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) option)

--Illumian

ETA:
--Warforged Scout

Thanks for any help! :smallsmile:

[Dusk Eclipse]

Mareulurk (Sandstorm) is a pretty neat monster race that is almost custom tailored for assassin entry (3 RHD + 1 LA) for pretty good stat modifiers, racial SA, racial DEATH Attack (cha based sadly), bonus feats, Nauseating breath (1/day) and sound based "Scent"-like racial ability.

[Essence_of_War]

I'm a big fan of poisondusk lizardfolk (mm3) for any sort of sneaky operations.

Do you want to include any templates also? Dark and Shadow seem like they'd be worth noting.

[eggs]

Yeah, templates would be excellent.

Just to lay my hand on the table:

I'm looking at plugging Human, Warforged, Gnome (esp. Whisper), Halfling (esp. Strongheart), Darfellan/Kenku/Skarn, Nerafim, Marrulurk, Tiefling (esp. Savage or Lesser), Lizardfolk (poison dusk specifically), Hengeyokai, Drow (Savage specifically) and Daelkyr Half-blood. (I suspect the latter two have more to them than I can think of off-hand or quickly track down)

I'm going to point at, but not strongly support Changeling, Dwarf, Elf (esp. Fire), Deep Imaskari and Raptoran.

I'm going to bash Half-Orc and Half-Elf, just to acknowledge all the PHB races.

On templates, I'm looking at the usual crowd of Dark, Shadow, Lolth-Touched and Draconic.

I'm up in the air about recommending Dragonborn (on account of alignment), web+desert Kobold (great racial features, but I'm having trouble making low levels look bearable with that Str/Wis penalty), Illumian (it has cool stuff, but without introducing something crazy like Lolth-touched or Persist+Wraithstrike, it's not looking so outstanding), Diopsid (great at being a blender, crap at being a magical sneak), Wispling (esp. Lesser - esp. if its Halfling Traits count for prerequisites) and Thri-Keen.

I'm still deciding whether to acknowledge Warforged Scout (it's pretty bad compared to Warforged, but on its own merits, that's a lot of immunities, good feat opportunities and small size), Shifter (natural attacks and Str/Dex are great, but these seem to have pretty severe costs and limitations), Elan (I'll probably shove it in a Psychic Assassin section) and Nezumi (it would be a great frontline race, but its Claw/Bite attack may actually nerf it if it runs with the natural weapons combat mode that I'll be endorsing). Maybe Catfolk, but it's boring.

I'll track down some of those Dragon Magazine planetouched and that set of +0 LA templates, and probably add one or two.

[docnessuno]

Races:
Changeling: amazing infiltration capabilities and easy entry in warshaper.
Stronghearth halfling: small, sneaky and a free bonus feat.
Marrulurk: sneak attack, death attack, poison use, insane stat bonuses, two racial bonus feats, full BaB from RHDs.
Human: humans always rule.
Kobold: the cheesy choice of optimizers
Whisper gnome: just... WOW

Templates:
Half fey: wings, dex and cha boost, DR, Immunity to mind-effecting, charm person at will, other spell likes. LA +1
Shadow creature: speed and move silently boost, constant concealment, interesting ability each 4HD. LA +2
Dark creature: Early HiPS. LA +1

Misc:
Little known trick: take extend spell and use your 3rd level slots for extended wtaithstrikes
Intresting options: While very feat-intensive, a spelldancer dip allows you to persist some very nice spells.

Edit: added templates

[gorfnab]

Whisper Gnome + Magic in the Blood feat (PGtF) + Silencing Strike feat (RoS)

Shadowwalker Template (UE)

Death Attack sources from Lists of Stuff (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1412)

Assasin 1, ecl 6
Black Flame Zealot 1, ecl 6, Complete Divine
Dark Hunter 5, ecl 10, Complete Warrior
Darkwood Stalker 10, ecl 15, Complete Warrior
Stonedeath Assasin 5, ecl 10, Races of Stone - stonedeath strike, not quite death attack
Cultist of the Shattered Peak 5, ecl ??, Forgotten Realms: Lost Empires of Faerun
Monk of the Long Death ???
Telflammar Shadowlord 6, ecl ???, FR: Unapproachable East
Thayan Slaver 1, ecl 8, FR: Unapproachable East - ennervating attack, can paralyze
Slayer of Domiel 1
Justice of Weald and Woe 10, ecl 16, Champions of Ruin
Strifeleader ??, ecl ??, FR: Faiths & Pantheons
Imaskari Vengeance Seeker 10, ecl ?? , FR: Underdark
Black Dog 2, ecl 7, Dragonmarked

Specal Mention
Jaezred Chalssin, feat, Dragons of Faerun, +4 DC
Viperfang, item, Waterdeep: City of Splendors, +1 DC and poison 1/day
Assassin's Dagger, DMG, +1 DC


Basic Assassin build I like, a little feat heavy though:
X 5/ Assassin 9/ Telflammar Shadowlord 6

[Hirax]

Tibbits, from Dragon Compendium, make unbelievably fun assassins.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Shifter can be interesting, longtooth shifter elite gives you non magical wounding ability on your bite attack. They obviously work much better for a more combat oriented assassin.

[Zaq]

Regarding illumians, which sigils would you be recommending? If you'd recommend Uurkrau, as I'd expect, you'd have to remember that ignoring INT means that your spells with saves will suck, and Death Attack becomes even less of an option (it was never a great idea, but you do need INT if you ever want to not ignore it). That said, reducing MAD is never a terrible idea. It's just not a free ride.

Vauluur might be interesting. It's only 2/day, but it's kind of like Arcane Strike for free (not quite, but similar).

Have you thought about muckdwellers (SK pg. 71)? Tiny size, good natural armor, +6 DEX, Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, a bite attack, DEX instead of STR for Swim checks, and a cute blinding ability, all for the low price of being a lowly and repugnant lizard-thing! Seems like a decent trade-off. Sure, you're looking at –6 STR, –2 WIS, and –2 CHA, but hey, it leaves your INT and CON alone. (Also, they're a valid player race AND a viable choice for Improved Familiar!)

[eggs]

Templates:
Half fey: wings, dex and cha boost, DR, Immunity to mind-effecting, charm person at will, other spell likes. LA +1I like the immunity, flight, dex boost and enchantments as an alternate action mode, but I'm concerned with the 2 LA, Charisma-reliant SLAs and Con penalty. I'll point it out for sure.

Little known trick: take extend spell and use your 3rd level slots for extended wtaithstrikesHuh. I never noticed that swift spontaneous spells don't extend their casting times with metamagic effects.

Intresting options: While very feat-intensive, a spelldancer dip allows you to persist some very nice spells.Good call. The investment is steep, but it's not an uncommon set of feats for Assassin PrCs.
-------------------

Whisper Gnome + Magic in the Blood feat (PGtF) + Silencing Strike feat (RoS)Hm. I was thinking about keeping Silence tricks in a Psychic Assassin section, but Silencing Strike takes out some of the downside.

Shadowwalker Template (UE)Nifty. I like that more than some of the stock template suggestions.

Death Attack sources from Lists of Stuff (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1412)
[snip]I never realized how inconsistent the DC-stacking on those is on those; thought it was just CWar whose Death Attackers didn't stack levels. :smallyuk: The Favored in Guild (Jaezred Chaulssin) was a really useful/obscure find.

Basic Assassin build I like, a little feat heavy though:
X 5/ Assassin 9/ Telflammar Shadowlord 6
Shadowlord's definitely getting some recommendations.
-----------------

Tibbits, from Dragon Compendium, make unbelievably fun assassins.Good catch. I remembered Hengeyokai, blanked on those. I'll get them in.
----------------

Shifter can be interesting, longtooth shifter elite gives you non magical wounding ability on your bite attack. They obviously work much better for a more combat oriented assassin.Neat.

I'm still way too ignorant of shifter resources to break this down, so I'm going to need to ask how this would be used: if you were making a shifter assassin, and you wanted it to have the endurance to shift in 4 fights a day, what sort of investments would be involved? What benefits would that have over something like Human with 2 feats spent on Deformity: Claws?
----------------
EDIT: un-double posting

Regarding illumians, which sigils would you be recommending? If you'd recommend Uurkrau, as I'd expect, you'd have to remember that ignoring INT means that your spells with saves will suck, and Death Attack becomes even less of an option (it was never a great idea, but you do need INT if you ever want to not ignore it). That said, reducing MAD is never a terrible idea. It's just not a free ride.

Vauluur might be interesting. It's only 2/day, but it's kind of like Arcane Strike for free (not quite, but similar).
This was basically my concern. I usually write Illumians off more quickly than other posters, and I'm really trying not to here, but I'm not seeing much beside slight stat tweaks or an extra spell or two per day. I was thinking I'd leave it with a recommendation for Uurkrau, but I hadn't noticed how much damage Vauluur would create on a multiattack and ranged build (which is probably what I'll be encouraging).

Have you thought about muckdwellers (SK pg. 71)? Tiny size, good natural armor, +6 DEX, Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, a bite attack, DEX instead of STR for Swim checks, and a cute blinding ability, all for the low price of being a lowly and repugnant lizard-thing! Seems like a decent trade-off. Sure, you're looking at –6 STR, –2 WIS, and –2 CHA, but hey, it leaves your INT and CON alone. (Also, they're a valid player race AND a viable choice for Improved Familiar!)That's hilarious. I'll check them out.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Shifting for a reasonable amount of times per day is quite feat expensive (you can shift 1/day + 1 extra time per two shifters feats) so for shifting 4 times a day you would need to spend your 6 feats... which is obviously not optimal.

OTOH Bloodclaw master gives extra shifting per day at levels 1,3 and 5 (though for some stupid reason if you are an actual shifter you only get that extra shifting at levels 1 and 5)

In any case I was thinking on something along the lines of this for a shifter combat assassin (sadly it needs flaws to be effective)

Longtooth Shifter +2 Str and Primary Bite Attack 1d6+str
Rogue 3/Ranger 2/Warblade 1/Bloodclaw Master 2/Assassin 10/ something 2 (probably more rogue)
Flaw Shifter Instincts (+2 Init and +1 to spot and listen, not bad; but not awesome)
Flaw: Longtooth Elite (Deal 1 con damage with bite attack
1 Extra Shifter trait, Razor Claw( Gain claw attacks while shifting)
3 Darkstalker
5 (Ranger 2) Two-weapon fighting
6 Great Rend/Razor Claw elite (1d4 rend damage or attack with both claws after a charge
9 Staggering Strike Save vs. Staggered condition, save based on damage, potentially really high
12 Sickening Strike/ Maiming Strike (No save sickening or dealing Cha damage
15 Open
18 Open

Star Priority Would be Str->Int->(16ish at the least to get all your spells even with the Int Penalty)->Con=Dex (14 base is ok)->Wis->Cha

With this set up you can Shift 4 times per day, for 9+Con rounds (which will be enough for most if not all fights.
Get gloves of Balanced hand if you want to get ITW or a Necklace of Natural attacks if you want to focus on your natural weapons.

[Zaq]

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like Vauluur for an illumian Assassin. +2 to all DEX-based and CHA-based skills is a pretty good deal for your race, honestly (the CHA skills may or may not be wasted, though having Bluff, Disguise, and UMD at usable levels is pretty awesome—and the DEX skills are surely going to be used) . . . ignoring Perform and non-PHB skills (Iaijutsu!), that's +2 to sixteen different skills, at least five or six of which are likely to actually be useful to you. Then, twice a day, we get the ability to upgrade a nova by quite a bit, in a manner that stacks with Arcane Strike (and, unlike Arcane Strike, in a manner that's very TWF-friendly). Oh, and Uur boosts your initiative as well, because we weren't getting enough out of this deal.

Yeah. I'm thinking Vauluur is the way to go on an illumian Assassin. Illumians are awesome.

[Igneel]

Something I've always found interesting is to use the Perform (Weapon Drill) (http://www.realmshelps.net/datafind/skills/perform.shtml) [C.Warrior] along with an idea someone somewhere on these boards thought about using a Undersong [Bard spell, SpC/Champ.Ruin switches Concentration checks with Perform] item with Diamond Mind manuevers.

Might be worth mentioning Karasites (Tome of Magic, basically humans but with SR, magic negation ability, +2 LA) for 'anti-mage' builds and don't feel like using some of the spells (nothing about Psionics if memory serves) from the Assassin class.

[eggs]

Shifting for a reasonable amount of times per day is quite feat expensive (you can shift 1/day + 1 extra time per two shifters feats) so for shifting 4 times a day you would need to spend your 6 feats... which is obviously not optimal.
I keep digging around, and Bloodclaw Master and Weretouched Master are the best sources of extra uses I can find. I'm seeing some cool concepts there, so I'll be sure to mention it, but it probably won't get the big neon sign treatment.


Something I've always found interesting is to use the Perform (Weapon Drill) (http://www.realmshelps.net/datafind/skills/perform.shtml) [C.Warrior] along with an idea someone somewhere on these boards thought about using a Undersong [Bard spell, SpC/Champ.Ruin switches Concentration checks with Perform] item with Diamond Mind manuevers.

Might be worth mentioning Karasites (Tome of Magic, basically humans but with SR, magic negation ability, +2 LA) for 'anti-mage' builds and don't feel like using some of the spells (nothing about Psionics if memory serves) from the Assassin class.
I think I'm missing something on these. The persistent Undersong+Perform+Concentration maneuvers thing uses feats, skills, spells and maneuvers that the Assassin doesn't have access to or any special ways of cost-reducing, and the Karsite takes away the Assassin's main appeal for some bonuses and tricks based on a dump stat.

[ILM]

Since Death Attack targets a save, jacking up the DC is only one part of the deal; the other side is debuffing. To this end I recommend the following:
- Unseelie Fey from Dragon Compendium, and its crazy -Cha to all saves within 5 ft.
- Hexblade 4 with Dark Companion ACF
- Paladin of Tyranny 3 or Blackguard 3 (may be a bit harder to work in the build, though)
- Sickening Strike (feat) from DotU: trades SA dice to sicken target (-2 to saves) for 1 round
- Terrifying Strike (feat) from DotU: trades SA dice to shaken target (also -2 to saves) for 1 round
- Aleval School (feat) from DotU: trades SA dice for a -2 penalty to any one save for 1 round

The 3 feats above only apply for one round, but I played a TWF assassin who enjoyed using his first attack to debuff, and his second one to kill (death attack only needs to be used within 3 rounds of the study - nowhere does it say it must be your next attack). That was for flavour purposes though; iteratives would work as well. Finding ways to full attack after movement becomes mandatory with this technique, since you need two attacks - pounce (or shadow pounce!) becomes your best friend.


And to complement stuff already mentioned before:
- Bracers of Murder (DotU) also adds 2 to the DC of death attacks
- Ability Focus, if allowed (and I don't see why not) would add another 2

[Xaragos]

My favorite race is whisper gnome.

However there was a race that I can't put a name to right now, that looked like a small mouse/rat type of creature and had I believe True Sight at will permanently and some other nifty abilities. If you didn't mind being a small rat with applicable bonuses. (If anyone knows the name feel free to post it)

[eggs]

However there was a race that I can't put a name to right now, that looked like a small mouse/rat type of creature and had I believe True Sight at will permanently and some other nifty abilities. If you didn't mind being a small rat with applicable bonuses. (If anyone knows the name feel free to post it)
Beguilers? Their LA is cohort-only, but a sociopathic murderer that looks like a tree kangaroo is amusing.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I keep digging around, and Bloodclaw Master and Weretouched Master are the best sources of extra uses I can find. I'm seeing some cool concepts there, so I'll be sure to mention it, but it probably won't get the big neon sign treatment.


I agree with you, Shifters can be good Assassins or good shifters; but both at the same time is quite feat-expensive. Though I do think that for a combat/feral type assassin they are an interesting option.

[eggs]

Since Death Attack targets a save, jacking up the DC is only one part of the deal; the other side is debuffing. To this end I recommend the following:
- Unseelie Fey from Dragon Compendium, and its crazy -Cha to all saves within 5 ft.This one I always feel a bit sleazy for recommending, since it's both 3rd party and it looks a whole lot like a copy/paste error. I'll think about it. It's definitely a really good option if taken as legitimately LA+0.

- Paladin of Tyranny 3 or Blackguard 3 (may be a bit harder to work in the build, though)Halfling Paladins already get the best version of Hide in Plain Sight from the champions of valor web enhancement (the Su version as an Ex ability). The fluff would be all sorts of weird, but it could be interesting.

- Sickening Strike (feat) from DotU: trades SA dice to sicken target (-2 to saves) for 1 round
- Terrifying Strike (feat) from DotU: trades SA dice to shaken target (also -2 to saves) for 1 round
- Aleval School (feat) from DotU: trades SA dice for a -2 penalty to any one save for 1 roundShould I assume these require the Mosquito's Bite skill trick, or there another way to stay undetected/not be taken as hostile after stabbing the target?

[Dusk Eclipse]

...snip

Should I assume these require the Mosquito's Bite skill trick, or there another way to stay undetected/not be taken as hostile after stabbing the target?

Not really as ILM mentions, nothing in Death Attack description says the Death Attack must be the first attack on the round, so you can set up a full attack, use all those tasty ambush feats on the first one and then on the second itterative (or off-hand attack if TWF) unleash the Death Attack.

I also think that Kalashtars can be one of the prime poison user-assassins. They are naturally psionic and as such can get Hidden Talent without problem (Psi. Minor Creation) and even get their character level in bonus PP, which means that unlike other characters they can keep making poison throughout the day. Add in the Psionic Assassin ACF in secrets of sarlona for more PP and powers and we have a pretty good poisoner.

Getting a poisonous companion through Wild Cohort is also something to be considered.

[ILM]

Should I assume these require the Mosquito's Bite skill trick, or there another way to stay undetected/not be taken as hostile after stabbing the target?
Mosquito's Bite couldn't help anyway since the target assumes you attacked and missed, which would still register as hostile. However, it doesn't matter:

If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy.
Once you've spent the 3 rounds studying the target, it doesn't matter if the target detects you. So if you have, say, 2 iterative attacks (or two-weapon fighting), you can just declare that your first sneak attack gets converted to a Sickening, Terrifying, Aleval School stab, and your second sneak attack is the actual death attack.

edit: yeah, what the ninja said. :smalltongue:

[eggs]

Okay, I'm with you. Only the studying requires the Assassin not to be detected. I may have been misusing that slightly. :smallredface:

Since you bring up psionic Assassin variant, there's thing that I was planning on recommending that I expect people to pounce on when I bring it up, and I could use some feedback on:

I'm thinking about pitching a Soulknife dip for psionic Assassins, namely for the Hidden Talent ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a). I think this is a better way to get new abilities than dipping into the conventional manifesting classes because the powers A) have ML determined by Assassin levels, which will presumably be higher than base class ML by the mid-levels and B) can be drawn from any power list without compromising a fairly robust chassis. And because Hidden Talent is often a useful feat, even the second time.

I expect to catch some flak on that on account of the Soulknife's usual crummy performance, but I'd like to get some feedback on this case specifically.


For another line of class-based questions, the Binder is another thing like Shifters and Illumians that I've just never paid much attention. I'm digging through the class's material now for things that might be Assassin-relevant, but for someone with some Binder experience: Does it have many abilities that would be useful to a typical face+scout+blender Assassin? Are there any vestiges that deserve particularly close attention? Are there any that might be traps?

[ILM]

The problem with Assassin (and this addresses your question about the Binder, but also applies to a number of cases) is that the best way to keep your Death Attack DC up is to stay with the class for all 10 levels, then add another class that also provides the ability (and lets it stack) on top of it. This leaves you with fairly limited room for other class combinations. It then becomes a choice of focusing on Death Attack or not. I mean, it's hard enough using Death Attack when you concentrate on it; if you don't, you can just forget about it.

Unfortunately, if you drop Death Attack, you're left with a decent class but not one you can't replace with others to achieve your goals. Face? There are better choices. Scout? Better choices. Blender? Definitely better choices.

Certainly you can make an assassin (lower case A) with Binder levels, but personally I'm of the opinion that if you're not going to optimize Death Attack, you may as well forgo the class altogether.

[docnessuno]

The problem with Assassin (and this addresses your question about the Binder, but also applies to a number of cases) is that the best way to keep your Death Attack DC up is to stay with the class for all 10 levels, then add another class that also provides the ability (and lets it stack) on top of it. This leaves you with fairly limited room for other class combinations. It then becomes a choice of focusing on Death Attack or not. I mean, it's hard enough using Death Attack when you concentrate on it; if you don't, you can just forget about it.

Unfortunately, if you drop Death Attack, you're left with a decent class but not one you can't replace with others to achieve your goals. Face? There are better choices. Scout? Better choices. Blender? Definitely better choices.

Certainly you can make an assassin (lower case A) with Binder levels, but personally I'm of the opinion that if you're not going to optimize Death Attack, you may as well forgo the class altogether.

The assassin still makes a dcent SA-focused "gish-in-a-can" granting access to spells like wraitstrike and improved invisibility, while also granting the very important HiPS. It's not the best PRC for this, but it's among the fews that can be entered without prior spellcasting levels.

When i look at death strike i just think "yeah, that will come in handy if i have to kill a lvl 4-5 Aristocrat and want to look cool while doing it". If i put assassin into a build is usually for access to some arcane spellcasting and HiPS without sacrificing SA progression (possibly improving it).

[eggs]

Ignoring tricks, there are going to be 5 levels to dink around with before Assassin entry. At worst, Binder is a level dip for an extra natural attack, so I think it's worth considering. I ask about other options because I suspect Binder has some benefits that aren't as apparent as an extra dose of sneak attack per full attack.

[Dusk Eclipse]

On the binder font there is Paimon which gives a +4 untyped bonus to dex, weapon finesse as a bonus feat an uncanny dodge when bound, you can get him with 3 levels plus a feat. There is also a vestige that gives sneak attack dice (Andromalus?) and one which gets you a raven/dove scout (Malphas?).

Naberious is actually pretty nice if you are going a more social route.

[ILM]

The assassin still makes a dcent SA-focused "gish-in-a-can" granting access to spells like wraitstrike and improved invisibility, while also granting the very important HiPS. It's not the best PRC for this, but it's among the fews that can be entered without prior spellcasting levels.
True, but as you say, there are way better and not all that complicated ways to get a gish with better BAB and better casting. Getting the skills and HIPS might be trickier, but realistically at ECL 13 (where you're going to get the Assassin's HIPS) you have a slew of options as a caster to disappear from sight.

However, I will readily admit that the simplicity of the class is a huge benefit in itself (as a core class that provides SA, HIPS, skills and minor casting with no multiclassing).

[Dusk Eclipse]

One of the biggest strength of the Assassin class, is that they were supported quite a lot in later splatbooks. Heck they even get support in different campaign settings, for example CoR has some awesome Assassin spells, including split arrow, and Unaproachable East has the Tellflamar Shadow Lord which dovetails quite nicely with Assassin, Eberron for it's part has some useful items burried in the Secrets of Xen'driks and the only (to the best of my knowlege) ACF for a prestige class!.

Never mind that almost any tricks a rogue has access to, the Assassin does too.

[danzibr]

One of the biggest strength of the Assassin class, is that they were supported quite a lot in later splatbooks. Heck they even get support in different campaign settings, for example CoR has some awesome Assassin spells, including split arrow, and Unaproachable East has the Tellflamar Shadow Lord which dovetails quite nicely with Assassin, Eberron for it's part has some useful items burried in the Secrets of Xen'driks and the only (to the best of my knowlege) ACF for a prestige class!.

Never mind that almost any tricks a rogue has access to, the Assassin does too.I always found that interesting...

Anyway, are Avengers going to make it into this book?

[God Imperror]

I personally like:

Lurk 5 (complete psionic) / Psionic Assasin 5 (ACF from secrets of sarlona) / Psychic assassin 10 (from here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d))

I personally like kalashtar for this, for more power points.

Combining Mind Cripple and Mental assault for 4 points of Intelligence per attack (no save) seems a good way to finish enemies. It also has 15 effective levels of death attack and is int based.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Add maiming strike (EoE) for extra cha damage and Psi Minor Creation for a Wis-damaging poison to target the three mental stats.

[God Imperror]

If none of them is a dump stat it is probably failing the fort save against your death attack :smallamused:

[eggs]

I always found that interesting...

Anyway, are Avengers going to make it into this book?
I'd only planned on mentioning the Avenger existed as a non-evil spinoff. I'm not aware of any tricks/tools the Avenger has that the Assassin doesn't.

Just mulling over their extra resources, there's Sacred Strike, the Raptor Arrow, Daggerspell Mage, Holy Weapons... anything else that might differentiate them?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Nothing that comes to mind.... Access to Slayer of Domiel?