What spells would you let a monk cast?? [3.5]

[animewatcha]

Keep in mind, I am asking this coming from a no-ToB, no MoI background. Casting stat wis. Spells per day as core-wizard. Spell level gain rate as a core-sorceror. Counts as neither arcane nor divine. Spells can't be modified by such things as class abilities, metamagic feats, items, etc. Defensive/healing meant to be cast as a free action ( 1/round ) ( if standard or less ). Pure offensive casted as full-round action ( assuming normal cast time is standard or less ) with full-round taking another full-round to cast. Middle ground ( like some divination spells ) taking normal time.

With limited spell list in mind ( like how duskblades are, hexblades, rangers, etc. ), what spells would be permissable for a monk to cast that still allows for a wizard to be a wizard, cleric to be cleric.

This topic is meant to help me try and present a homebrew ( 1st attempt ) on the core monk class on the forums for feedback.

[Prime32]

I'd suggest looking at these guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_%28Taoism%29) for inspiration.

Also, blood wind, shatter (touch range), levitate+fly, freedom of movement, stoneskin, nondetection, commune with nature, true strike+moment of prescience, celerity, statue and astral projection. All buffs become Personal.

Defensive/healing meant to be cast as a free action ( 1/round )You mean a swift action?

[Flickerdart]

Divine Divination, Enchantment and Abjuration spells with Personal range (or modified to only affect the caster) would be a good blanket way of determining what spells the Monk learns. Unless you want to change their role from "guy what punches things", keeping their spells to personal buff spells without major visible effects is probably for the best.

[animewatcha]

You mean a swift action?

No. Spells like cure light wounds being a 1/round free-free action. Still allowing swift, etc. actions.

[Psyren]

Check out Qinggong Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/qinggong-monk) and Psychic Fist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/psychic-fist) for inspiration on magical competent monks.

[Alaris]

Well my friend, you're likely looking for spells that will help buff the monk, or help him be better at what he does (unarmed combat primarily). While I don't have my other books around, I'll take a look at Core (PHB1), and see what I can come up with.

This is by no means a complete list, nor should you take ALL of it, this is just some suggestions to get you started, based off of what I believe you're looking for. Also, I agree with Prime32's choices. Definitely good spells for a Monk:

1st Level:
Enlarge Person
Exp Retreat
Jump
Magic Fang
Cure Light Wounds? (You mentioned wanting healing)

2nd Level:
Blur/Mirror Image (In the sense of monk-y-ness, don't know the flavor you're going for exactly).
Bear's Endurance/Bull's Strength/Cat's Grace/Owl's Wisdom (All Monk Stats)
Spider Climb

3rd Level:
Heroism (More self-buffing ftw)
Wind Wall (Deflect Arrows, but all around you essentially)
Displacement (Read Blur/Mirror Image)
Haste (Self-Only? This is something that would help Monk A LOT!)
Fly (Solves the Monk issue of not being able to fly)
Greater Magic Fang
Water Walk

4th Level:
Stoneskin (Wouldn't be remiss)
Shout (Seems like a more buff 'Ki Blast' to me)
Air Walk (Instead of fly?)
Divine Power (Instead of Tenser's Transformation?)

5th Level:
Overland Flight (if you're feeling generous)
Interposing Hand (And other hand spells. Extension of the body, etc etc)
Righteous Might (More Combat Buffs)

6th Level:
Globe of Invulnerability (Fun times for being able to stand up to a Wizard)
Greater Heroism
Tenser's Transformation (Ultimate combat spell)
Heal (Extreme for a "limited casting" class)
Spellstaff

7th Level:
Regenerate (More uber healing, if you want)


8th Level:
Moment of Prescience
Greater Shout
Iron Body
Shield of Law (Since Monks have to be lawful)

9th Level:
Foresight

Key:
Wizard/Sorcerer Spells
Druid Spells
Cleric Spells

EDIT: Suffice to say that most of these should be modified to "Self-Only" to keep flavor.

[Snowbluff]

None. I don't just dislike Monk. I despise it, it's fluff, it's core mechanics, and the people I know who play them. I was touched by a monk!

More seriously, their was a PF spell that let's you hit people with unarmed strikes at a distance. You could FoB wit hit and everything. Crow fiery something or other.

[Novawurmson]

None. I don't just dislike Monk. I despise it, it's fluff, it's core mechanics, and the people I know who play them. I was touched by a monk!

More seriously, their was a PF spell that let's you hit people with unarmed strikes at a distance. You could FoB wit hit and everything. Crow fiery something or other.

Blood Crow Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-crow-strike)?

[TuggyNE]

The thread title seems to be oddly typoed ("Would" instead of "What").

On topic, I'd feel odd about giving monks spells as such, though they could certainly use the boost; instead I might adapt some parts of PsyWar and call it a day (assuming, of course, that I was in the mood for class fixing rather than character building).

[killianh]

I would probably follow the general rules for the arcane swordsage so abjuration, evocation, and transmutation with ranges of personal or touch. arcane swordsage is allowed to pick and choose out of those, while keeping all of the other non manoeuvres attributes (most of which are the same as the monk anyway) and they can be cast like manoeuvres every encounter. I would say leave the list open rather than have a closed list, but keep a similar restriction on the spells that can be chosen

[Shpadoinkle]

Personally, I'd just use the psychic warrior.

[killianh]

Personally, I'd just use the psychic warrior.

Yeah a tash monk 1/psy warrior 19 would accomplish the same thing as what you're going for so just compare the types of abilities and use the arcane versions

[Coidzor]

(Greater/Superior) Magic Fang(or just change Ki strike to be a bit more like the Soulknife's Mindblade but not quite as bad), (Greater) Mage Armor, Dimension Door, Feather Fall, Protection from X, Cure X, Enlarge/Reduce Person, Wombat's X, Bloodwind...

[Novawurmson]

(or just change Ki strike to be a bit more like the Soulknife's Mindblade but not quite as bad)

What, you mean like the DSP PF Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife)? Psionics Expanded has the Deadly Fist archetype that lets you essentially apply the weapon bonuses to your unarmed strikes instead of making a weapon. Full BAB, d10 unarmed fighter with +9 weapon enhancements already applied to his unarmed strikes? Yes, please.

[ThiagoMartell]

None. I don't just dislike Monk. I despise it, it's fluff, it's core mechanics, and the people I know who play them. I was touched by a monk!

More seriously, their was a PF spell that let's you hit people with unarmed strikes at a distance. You could FoB wit hit and everything. Crow fiery something or other.

There is a 3.5 spell for that as well. Bloodwind, I think. It's in the spell compendium.

[ericgrau]

Spells

Not bad. Needs mage armor badly though. I consider mage armor, enlarge person, and greater magic weapon the bare essentials that even the unaltered monk needs to get from allies or items. GMF is ok but it pigeon holes the monk too much while GMW hits both unarmed and weapons. All the buffs that every class likes are nice too.

[Coidzor]

What, you mean like the DSP PF Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife)? Psionics Expanded has the Deadly Fist archetype that lets you essentially apply the weapon bonuses to your unarmed strikes instead of making a weapon. Full BAB, d10 unarmed fighter with +9 weapon enhancements already applied to his unarmed strikes? Yes, please.

I'll have to check that out. I guess I should have just said Kensai, though, haha, since that, IIRC, is actually what the soulknife wishes it had been to start with.

[Novawurmson]

I'll have to check that out. I guess I should have just said Kensai, though, haha, since that, IIRC, is actually what the soulknife wishes it had been to start with.

Plus, instead of throwing your mind blade, you get a mini hadouken

[kitcik]

Let them cast the unarmed swordsage "spell" list.

[sdream]

I don't know why they wouldn't just use the cleric list. My favorite monk fix is to give them cleric casting on even levels.

When I was a wee lad with an Ad+D 1 book, I always thought that's what monks were, very strange magical friars with shaved in bald spots and beer bellies.

Regardless of whether you consider occidental or oriental monks... they are religious figures IRL... only in DnD did they suddenly become completely divorced from religion (probably because the designers were thinking buddhist monks, and didn't count that as a religion because it doesn't go in for gods).

Giving them the ability to cure wounds and cast out evil spirits seems appropriate to the monks I have read about... if not the inferior face smashers in DnD.

[Novawurmson]

Regardless of whether you consider occidental or oriental monks... they are religious figures IRL... only in DnD did they suddenly become completely divorced from religion (probably because the designers were thinking buddhist monks, and didn't count that as a religion because it doesn't go in for gods).

I knoooooow. This is probably why I consider psionics the ideal fix for the Monk; I feel like psionics has a lot in common with Buddhism and "Eastern" cultures.

[El Dorado]

Psionics from the psychic warrior list. Manifester level = monk level. There's some overlap (catfall, body adjustment, etc) and some oddballs (my light?) but the list otherwise pairs well with the monk.

[Autopsibiofeeder]

There was this PrC in Sword and Fist.... *flips pages*.... Ninja of the Crescent Moon. They had an ability to hypnotize people with hand gestures. Never liked the class, but I did like the concept of a monk being able to pull off the enchantment/illusion mind-affecting type spells that are not charm, dominate, minor image et al. Confusing people (instead of or in addition to stunning), dazing, shadow-flavour spells, sleep, invisibility, hypnotism, touch of idiocy, blur, hold person (paralyse), displacement, gease....etc.

I would like to see a monk being able to pull these kind of tricks, but I wouldn't give it a Sor/Wiz derived casting table. I think adding a more Psychic Warrior derived 'degree of spell power' would be enough (~1 spell known per level, not too much per day). Of course, the standard gish spells would serve the monk much better, but I happen to like this concept. Less melee brutalism, but perhaps a bit more 'mystic' power :smallsmile:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd include a mix of offensive buffs, defensive buffs, flashy offensive energy spells, force effects, power word spells, a few decent heals, some decent mobility spells, and a bunch of utility.

1st:
Cure Light Wounds
Enlarge Person
Shield
Shillelagh
Mighty Wallop
Magic Fang
Produce Flame (adds fire to unarmed strikes!)
Faerie Fire
Power Word: Fatigue
Power Word: Pain

2nd:
Bull's Str; Cat's Grace; Bear's Endurance; Owl's Wisdom
Balancing Lorecall
Bladeweave
Blur
Daggerspell Stance
Listening Lorecall
Blast of Force
Fireburst
Spider Climb
Bite of the Wererat
Heart of Air
Power Word: Sicken

3rd:
Greater Magic Fang
Greater Mighty Wallop
Displacement
Flashburst
Vampiric Touch
Haste
Slow
Lesser Restoration
Bite of the Werewolf
Heart of Water
Power Word: Deafen
Power Word: Maladroit
Power Word: Weaken

4th:
Ray Deflection
Wingbind
Mass Resist Energy
Greater Resistance
Shadow Form
Orb of Force
Fire Shield
Bite of the Wereboar
Heart of Earth
Power Word: Distract

5th:
Greater Fireburst
Draconic Might (Wis bonus instead of Cha bonus)
Wall of Force
Telekinesis
Control Winds
Waves of Fatigue
Restoration
Bite of the Weretiger
Heart of Fire
Power Word: Disable
Mass Cure Light Wounds (you can target the same creatures multiple times up to the max number of targets, the caster level cap is per creature targeted)

6th:
Greater Dispel Magic
Heal
Mass Bull's/Cat's/Bear's/Owl's
Superior Resistance
Energy Immunity
True Seeing
Bite of the Werebear
Ruby Ray of Reversal
Power Word: Nauseate

7th:
Ironguard
Hiss of Sleep
Emerald Flame
Wind Walk
Control Weather
Spell Turning
Power Word: Blind
Waves of Exhaustion

8th:
Mind Blank
Power Word: Stun
Lightning Ring
Stormrage
Mass Death Ward
Greater Restoration
Dictum
Power Word: Petrify

9th:
Foresight
Time Stop
Mass Heal
Astral Projection
Storm of Vengeance