Feats for Shadow Servant

[LanSlyde]

So I'm in the process if building a Shadowcaster/Master of Shadow. I've gotten the PC fleshed out, but now I can't figure out what I want in terms of feats for the Servant. So far I have Combat Reflexes and Improved initiative. Can anyone think up some decent feats to slap on this thing? I normally don't deal in incorporeal monsters, but the DM is letting me draw this one up myself.

As a side note, we house-rule that feats are gained at 1st, 2nd, and every even level after. So again, does the most righteous Playground have any advice for this lowly soul?:smallbiggrin:

[theUnearther]

Without knowing anything about your build (except that you presumably qualify for Master of Shadow), I'm going to suggest that you make your companion a dabbler of all the subsistems.
Give it a few Martial Studies and/or Stances, Bind Vestige (and Improved) Hidden and/or Wild Talent (I don't know which is which), the Incarnum ones, hell even some Truenaming (though that will need it to take the skill).

Among those, I favor the Martial Stance(s) and the Vestiges, because they are long-lasting things. But it bears noting that first level truenaming gets it a +5 to all skills, which I think is unnamed. After that it becomes rather unimpressive, though I guess you could have it take one of the healing ones. They are like Vigor, just slightly worse and later.

[LanSlyde]

Without knowing anything about your build (except that you presumably qualify for Master of Shadow), I'm going to suggest that you make your companion a dabbler of all the subsistems...

Right, ignoring the snark I can tell you that I've rolled up a level 5 Shadowcaster / level 3 Master of Shadow.

This one is mainly going to be straight battlefield control.

Feat progression for the PC is as follows.

(1) Path Focus: Dark Terrain
(2) Greater Path Focus: DT
(4) Shadow Familiar
(6) Reach Mystery
(8) Combat Reflexes
(10) Stand Still
(12) Extend Mystery
(14) Line of Shadow
(16) Quicken Mystery
(18) Path Focus: Ebon Walls
(20) Greater Path Focus: EW

Using Ari Marmells fix:

(Path Bonus1) Nocturnal Casting: Dark Terrain
(Path Bonus2) Shadow Reflection
(Path Bonus3) Nocturnal Casting: Ebon Walls

Mysteries as follows

Apprentice Mysteries
Dark Terrain
Carpet of Shadow
Black Fire
Clinging Darkness

Cloak of Shadow
Steel Shadows
Sight Eclipsed

Touch of Twilight
Umbral Touch

Initiate Mysteries
Black Magic
Warp Spell
Echo Spell
Flood of Shadow

Veil of Shadows
Shadow Vision
Curtain of Shadows
Unveil

Master Mysteries
Ebon Walls
Prison of Night
Tomb of Night

Shadow Calling
Summon Umbral Servant

Dark Metamorphosis
Umbral Body
Shadow Time

[Dusk Eclipse]

Spring Attack+lifesense is hilarious with incorporeal undead (I can't remember if the master of shadows' shadows* get the con damage touch) since they can spring attack and move inside the wall, making so your enemies can only try to hit them with a readied action.

[LanSlyde]

Spring Attack+lifesense is hilarious with incorporeal undead (I can't remember if the master of shadows' shadows* get the con damage touch) since they can spring attack and move inside the wall, making so your enemies can only try to hit them with a readied action.

Sadly the servants do not deal con damage. Cold damage yes. Con? no... Although I like the thought of the thing jumping out of walls to poke people.

[Darrin]

Spring Attack+lifesense is hilarious with incorporeal undead (I can't remember if the master of shadows' shadows* get the con damage touch) since they can spring attack and move inside the wall, making so your enemies can only try to hit them with a readied action.

Shadow Elemental has a fly speed, so you'll want Fly-By Attack, not Spring Attack. Fewer annoying prereqs, and you actually get a standard action that you can use for other things: ToB maneuvers, activating magic items, etc. It never speaks, though, so no spell-trigger or command-word items... hmm.

Lifesense would be great, but unfortunately the Shadow Elemental doesn't qualify (it has a Con score). I'm not entirely clear you'd need it, though... it already has Blindsight 60', but you still need line of effect to detect another creature. It's not clear to me if you're phased into a wall with blindsight, does the wall block line of effect? Probably.

Extended Reach (Savage Species) might be nice. Vow of Poverty (BoED) could be amusing. Otherwise, I'd look at Shape Soulmeld... Gloves of the Poisoned Soul, Lightning Gauntlets, Necrocarnum Touch, or Thunderstep Boots could add something to your incorporeal touch attack.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oh it is an elemental? I thought they were actual Shadows as in the undead monster. My mistake :smallredface:.

[Psyren]

Lifesense would be great, but unfortunately the Shadow Elemental doesn't qualify (it has a Con score). I'm not entirely clear you'd need it, though... it already has Blindsight 60', but you still need line of effect to detect another creature. It's not clear to me if you're phased into a wall with blindsight, does the wall block line of effect? Probably.

An incorporeal creature in a wall can still sense/attack enemies adjacent to that wall. While in the wall, it has total cover; if it attacks out of the wall, the latter gets downgraded to cover for that round. In addition, if it attacks from inside the wall, its target benefits from total concealment (50% miss.)

To sense further out than that (even with blindsight) it must emerge from the wall, giving up its cover (but also denying the opponent its total concealment.)

[LanSlyde]

Shadow Elemental has a fly speed, so you'll want Fly-By Attack, not Spring Attack. Fewer annoying prereqs, and you actually get a standard action that you can use for other things: ToB maneuvers, activating magic items, etc. It never speaks, though, so no spell-trigger or command-word items... hmm.

Lifesense would be great, but unfortunately the Shadow Elemental doesn't qualify (it has a Con score). I'm not entirely clear you'd need it, though... it already has Blindsight 60', but you still need line of effect to detect another creature. It's not clear to me if you're phased into a wall with blindsight, does the wall block line of effect? Probably.

Extended Reach (Savage Species) might be nice. Vow of Poverty (BoED) could be amusing. Otherwise, I'd look at Shape Soulmeld... Gloves of the Poisoned Soul, Lightning Gauntlets, Necrocarnum Touch, or Thunderstep Boots could add something to your incorporeal touch attack.

I thought about flyby attack, but with extended reach(thanks) and all the nifty bonuses to dex that they get plus combat reflexes I can just slap him with a maximized umbral touch and have him just kinda hover over the field and poke things. I had actually thought about VoP before, but determined that the DM I will be unleashing this thing on would slap me and do bad things to my character sheet. Incarnum is right out as well. As for items... can incorporeal creatures even use them?

[Darrin]

An incorporeal creature in a wall can still sense/attack enemies adjacent to that wall. While in the wall, it has total cover; if it attacks out of the wall, the latter gets downgraded to cover for that round. In addition, if it attacks from inside the wall, its target benefits from total concealment (50% miss.)


Concealment depends on something obscuring your vision. Blindsight isn't based on vision.



To sense further out than that (even with blindsight) it must emerge from the wall, giving up its cover (but also denying the opponent its total concealment.)

That's how the Incorporeal rules work if the creature doesn't have blindsight. What I was wondering is, if the shadow elemental is phased into the wall, does the wall still block line of effect for blindsight? The wall isn't physically preventing movement, would it also prevent blindsight from working out to 60'?

I didn't feel like digging into the rules too much, but my gut feeling was "Yeah, the wall prevents blindsight from working, beyond the "sense/attack adjacent" stuff described by the Incorporeal subtype.


As for items... can incorporeal creatures even use them?

Yes. Any equipment the incorporeal creature picks up or carries becomes incorporeal. If it attacks with such an item, though, nonmagical objects have no effect on corporeal targets, and magical objects/effects have the normal 50% miss chance that means they may still be incorporeal when they strike their target. If the Shadow Elemental had a higher Cha, it could take Ghostly Grasp (Libris Mortis) and ignore the 50% miss chance, effectively turning all its attacks into Ghost Touch attacks. However, you need Cha 15 for that feat.

[Psyren]

I didn't feel like digging into the rules too much, but my gut feeling was "Yeah, the wall prevents blindsight from working, beyond the "sense/attack adjacent" stuff described by the Incorporeal subtype.

Yes, exactly. While inside a wall, you only have line of effect to that wall. Therefore blindsight doesn't work at all, and the elemental is forced to rely on the "sense adjacent," which suffers from total concealment.

Note also that the "sense adjacent" doesn't say anything about relying on sight or not - it just applies the miss chance regardless.

[LanSlyde]

Yes. Any equipment the incorporeal creature picks up or carries becomes incorporeal. If it attacks with such an item, though, nonmagical objects have no effect on corporeal targets, and magical objects/effects have the normal 50% miss chance that means they may still be incorporeal when they strike their target. If the Shadow Elemental had a higher Cha, it could take Ghostly Grasp (Libris Mortis) and ignore the 50% miss chance, effectively turning all its attacks into Ghost Touch attacks. However, you need Cha 15 for that feat.

Ah I see. Good to know, but I still probably won't be giving the thing items. Thanks for the help tho.