Swashbuckler 3rd level

[20percentcooler]

Any Ideas for race, feats, etc?

[Morithias]

Any Ideas for race, feats, etc?

Lesser Tiefling. Definitely lesser tiefling.

[killianh]

really heavilydepends on what you're planing to do with the character after that. The 3rd level of swashbuckler is a great point to leave the class and pursue other classes, the best of which are any INT/DEX classes. There are a lot of ways to go so I'm going to hold off on advice for now, but if you have an idea of where you want to take the character I'll offer what I can

[Thomasinx]

really heavilydepends on what you're planing to do with the character after that. The 3rd level of swashbuckler is a great point to leave the class and pursue other classes, the best of which are any INT/DEX classes. There are a lot of ways to go so I'm going to hold off on advice for now, but if you have an idea of where you want to take the character I'll offer what I can

Or to put it another way... you almost have to go somewhere else with the character after that.

After you get the 3rd level of swashbuckler (and the wonderful insightful strike), each additional level gives significantly reduced benefit, and pretty terrible abilities. It's basically like a fighter, except the feats have already been picked for you... bad feats.

[killianh]

Or to put it another way... you almost have to go somewhere else with the character after that.

After you get the 3rd level of swashbuckler (and the wonderful insightful strike), each additional level gives significantly reduced benefit, and pretty terrible abilities. It's basically like a fighter, except the feats have already been picked for you... bad feats.

Yeah pretty much, but you might be able to hold out till level 5 then get one of the dual progression feats for swashbuckler (they usually require dodge +1 IIRC)

As for up till level 3...I would suggest strongheart halfling. All the awesome of human, but with the +1 to attacks and AC from being small. You get weapon finesse for free so your main stats should be DEX>INT>CON in that order.

You'll have a total of four feats (three you can take, one is weapon finesse) so take Faerie Mysteries Initiate which has a host of abilities, but most importantly grants INT to HP instead of CON so you only need to focus on 2 of your 6 stats. Combat Expertise for extra defence (and as a prerequisite feat for later feats and PrCs) and Combat Reflexes for extra attacks each round (more attacks of opportunity equal to dex, normally only one per round granted) and as a prereq for later goodies

a rapier is going to be a good friend to you for this build, and better if you can get keen on it later on when you have the money.

[20percentcooler]

I'm going into the Scarlet Corsair Web enhancement PRC.

[TheTick]

You'll have to mix in a level or Rogue (or something else that gives sneak attack) to qualify...not sure if Daring Outlaw will be needed, though, as the Scarlet Corsair's SA stacks with the Rogue level(s). That's a cool PrC, have to remember that.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Yeah pretty much, but you might be able to hold out till level 5 then get one of the dual progression feats for swashbuckler (they usually require dodge +1 IIRC)

Daring Outlaw requires Grace +1, not Dodge, so it can be taken by a Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 2/X 1.

[eggs]

I'm going into the Scarlet Corsair Web enhancement PRC.
Dipping Sneak Attack Thug Fighter and Warblade (in that order) wouldn't hurt at all.

[Venger]

going changeling, then switching over to warshaper is a not-terrible option. remember, natural weapons are light weapons, so you get to add your insightful strike to them. warshaper boosts your str and con by 4, and gives you reach (which you sorely need)

if you were dead set on swashbuckler, take 3 levels of rogue immediately (or if the character's not built yet, put the first rogue level at the beginning for more skill points) and take daring outlaw at 6. rogue and swashbuckler levels stack for grace (who cares) and sneak attack (you now have 10d6 SA as swashbuckler)

you won't be winning DND any time soon, but it makes life as a swashbuckler a lot easier.

[Wise Green Bean]

Daring outlaw, go through swashbuckler for a while(8 is probably the maximum without hurting you too badly) and then some rogue PRCs(silent blade?) to keep up the ol' sneak attack.

[Venger]

Daring outlaw, go through swashbuckler for a while(8 is probably the maximum without hurting you too badly) and then some rogue PRCs(silent blade?) to keep up the ol' sneak attack.

that pretty much defeats the point of daring outlaw.

you go daring outlaw to have swashbuckler's most meaningful contribution (full BA) and then take as little rogue as possible at the beginning for the skill points and 2d6 SA (so 3 levels) then stay swashbuckler. then you take the TWF feats, gaining more attacks sooner thanks to your BA, which wish rog3/swash17 is 19, so you get 4 attacks plus 3 more, each one a SA. take flick of the wrist and staggering strike and just destroy everyone (as long as they're not immune to precision damage, of course)

daring outlaw only lets rogue/swashbuckler levels stack for determining SA. nothing else. if you're going to go into avenging executioner, or scarlet corsair, or invisible blade (I think what you meant), or assassin or what have you, don't bother with daring outlaw or swashbuckler in the first place, it's not doing anything.

[eggs]

Even with Daring outlaw, other classes often just have better features than Swashbuckler (Scarlet Corsair/Dread Pirate/Avenging Executioner/Warblade/etc), so PrCing out is usually a good move anyway.

But it makes the Daring Outlaw feat pretty questionable in the first place.

[Wise Green Bean]

It doesn't really defeat the point of daring outlaw. You just get a bit less for it. One feat for 4d6+ sneak attack isn't bad at all. And now you're a rogue with unusually good bab and hp and all the other swashbucklin' fun. Leans more towards the outlaw than the daring.

[killianh]

as eggs suggested dipping Sneak Attack Thug Fighter and Warblade will get you what you need to enter your PrC at level 6. From that point though I personally would drop the PrC around level 4 or 5. I would advise taking it no further than level 8 as the last two levels just aren't worth it. So you would end up with Swashbuckler 3/ Thug fighter 1/warblade 1/ SC 8/X 7

Thief Acrobat and Spymaster or some rogue levels would probably fit what you're going for with the build so far.

[The Random NPC]

daring outlaw only lets rogue/swashbuckler levels stack for determining SA. nothing else. if you're going to go into avenging executioner, or scarlet corsair, or invisible blade (I think what you meant), or assassin or what have you, don't bother with daring outlaw or swashbuckler in the first place, it's not doing anything.

No it doesn't, it also lets rogue/swashbuckler levels stack for Grace and Dodge. Yeah, it's practically worthless, but still better than a poke in the eye.

[Venger]

No it doesn't, it also lets rogue/swashbuckler levels stack for Grace and Dodge. Yeah, it's practically worthless, but still better than a poke in the eye.

while I am aware of that, it's not the reason people take daring outlaw. :smalltongue: you're right, I did forget to mention.

[Origomar]

Well i thought of something that might be cool in the flavor sense, but still be rather weak because of the monk levels.

Swashbuckler lv 3 and monk with Kung Fu Genius.

Was thinking something along the lines of monk 11, swashbuckler 3, and 6 duelist, but im not really an optimizer.

(if you are going for more of a fighter, theres this "broken" feat that makes your HP based off of intellect aswell, something like "faerie mysteries"

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Aiming for Scarlet Corsair means read The Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0), take no prisoners, show no mercy, etc.

Skip Swashbuckler, use Thug Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) plus Sneak Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) for three levels and take the Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) 3 substitution level to get Skill Focus: Intimidate for free.

I'd use Desert Half-Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs) with at least one level of Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon), and say you visited the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get the feat Menacing Demeanor for 3,000 gp instead of having to spend a feat on it. Use the Half-Humans variant from Races of Destiny (sidebar on page 150), to be a Humanoid (Human) instead of a Humanoid (Orc), which allows you to qualify for feats as though you were a Human. That lets you take the feat Dreadful Wrath (PGtF) at 1st level, which is an amazing fear-for-free effect.

Qualifying for Scarlet Corsair you should go Thug 1/ Half-Orc Paragon 2/ Thug 2, use Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) and take Extra Rage at 3rd. Include a second visit to the Otyugh Hole in your backstory for Extend Rage for another 3,000 gp if you can afford it. Your 6th level feat should be Intimidating Rage, and if you can use flaws be sure to pick up Power Attack and Craven.

Ability scores should be Cha > Str > Dex > Con > Int > Wis, but avoid negative Int and Wis modifiers if possible. You may want to include a third Otyugh Hole visit if you can afford it to pick up Iron Will as well. Switch your class skills from Ride to Tumble at all levels, and from Survival to Sense Motive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) on Half-Orc Paragon. Keep max ranks in Intimidate, and check out the Bluff, Balance, and Tumble skill tricks in Complete Scoundrel, plus be sure to get Never Outnumbered if starting below 10th level.