What do you consider the 5 most important skills?

[silverwolfer]

What do you figure are the most important 5 skills in d&d?

**excludes the obvious UMD and Concentration **


I am going to Say for myself


Balance , Survival , Sense Motive , listen , diplomacy

[ahenobarbi]

if excluding UMD and Concentration next 5 would be Bluff, Listen, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble IMO.

[Yora]

Stealth-skills: for scouting.
Perception-skills: against it.
Survival: for tracking and spoting natural dangers.
Arcane Knowledge: to make sense of magical phenomena.
Disarming Traps.

[Moak]

Uhm uhm... I remove UPD as well than UMD.

1) Autohypnosis
2) Tumble
3) Listen/Search/Spot
4) Sense Motive
5) Spellcraft

[Alleran]

Spellcraft, Diplomacy/Bluff, Spot/Listen, Balance.

[Salanmander]

1) Tumble: Useful for everyone, godsend for some. Good enough to take a half-rank in just to try.
2) Spellcraft: So SOMEONE knows what the enemy is doing.
3) Search: Not only does it find traps, but it's also useful in most "find information" scenarios. Good in pretty much any campaign.
4) Sense motive: Every campaign will have NPCs lie to you, it's just more interesting that way.
5) Listen: It's more important to know that something is nearby than exactly where it is.


So I mostly agree with ahenobarbi, except I think finding lies is more important than telling them, and I think finding doors/traps/stuff is more important than having another way to find sneaking folk.

[Dusk Eclipse]

For Balance you only really need 5 ranks so I wouldn't say it is that important

For my own list:

1.-Spot/Listen: Absolutely the most important skills in the game
2.-Diplomacy: Even if yo aren't sticking to RAW you will roll it sooner or later
3.-Knowledges, without them you won't know what the hell you are fighting and that can be extremely Dangerous (Arcana, Planes, Religion and Nature are the most important IMO)
4.-Spellcraft: At least someone should know how to deal with spells (casted in combat or otherwise) I think even the UMD rogue should spend a few skill points here.
5.-Forgery, because... who takes forgery?

[killem2]

For Balance you only really need 5 ranks so I wouldn't say it is that important



I would say it depends on the module. I know in Three Faces of Evil there are DC 15-30 balance checks in there, and it is suppose to be a level 3-5 module.

I personally love tumble, handle animal, listen, spot, sleight of hand,.

[BShammie]

I would say it depends on the module. I know in Three Faces of Evil there are DC 15-30 balance checks in there, and it is suppose to be a level 3-5 module.

You only need five ranks so that you're not flat-footed while balancing.
Everything else you said is true, but I'm pretty sure that was Dusk Eclipse was referencing.

[killem2]

You only need five ranks so that you're not flat-footed while balancing.
Everything else you said is true, but I'm pretty sure that was Dusk Eclipse was referencing.

OH right, completely forgot about that lol. I always forget the passive benefits.

[ericgrau]

With a bad DM you only need spot and listen and the rest is fluff.

But seriously I'll say balance (not maxed), climb (not maxed), jump and listen are the essential ones. In rare cases your party needs swim and/or survival.

The first 3 are for terrain while listen finds things you can't see. You also want rope, pitons, light and so on, maybe some flour bombs or similar. Technically jump and listen don't need to be maxed either but it's nice to have.

Other skills are less essential but useful. At very low levels everyone should be able to manage DC 15 heal checks at least half the time (+5 modifier) and the cleric should prepare cure minor wounds in case he runs out of spells.

[Psyren]

Perception, Acrobatics, Knowledge (I only count it once because the whole party should be covering each one), UMD and Stealth are the big 5 in my games.

[Zaq]

We often say, only half-jokingly, that Bluff is every skill.

Knowledges are critical, but it's not appropriate to just list one, because it really depends on the campaign.

Diplomacy is pretty important, because there are a lot of times when we like to try to not kill everything that moves, and it helps with that, as long as you don't abuse the hell out of it.

Spellcraft, as mentioned, is pretty damn important.

For the last one . . . yeah, I have a hard time not picking Tumble. It's that good.

[sonofzeal]

Balance - but only for 5 ranks to prevent Grease-SA

Diplomacy - utterly campaign changing if handled well

Bluff - it's like at-will suggestion if you get it high enough!

Jump - a good jump check can cover most other athletics much of the time, and can do things they can't like helping counter flying enemies.

UMD - I don't see why it should be excluded, and it's really fantastic


RUNNERS UP: Autohypnosis and Iaijutsu Focus


(Concentration is necessary for casters, but doesn't even make the top 10 overall; I'm not sure why it's excluded)

[eggs]

Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Speak Language:

Maybe this was designed as a combat adventure. Maybe that storm giant has been hankering to use that maul all day. But we are talking our problems out, dammit!
:smalltongue:

[kitcik]

A lot of good ones listed and I have none to add. But I do have a question.

Two people mentioned Balance. I am playing a monk (low op campaign) with a high Balance skill, but in 14 levels I have never been forced to make a Balance check. Jump, Tumble, Climb ==> yes. But not Balance.

I mean sure, there were a few times where the DM could have called for one, but I just don't see it as a critical skill - even for a physical-ability based character.

So, I'm just curious, in what situations do you find Balance so significant? (I note that a decent Dex and just a few ranks overcomes Grease)

[Venger]

Bluff: Get your mod high enough and you can literally walk past encounters and get the xp anyway. the DC for communicating a secret message is also pathetically easy, and few people know about it. use it to your advantage.

craft: (poisonmaking) a highly underrated skill. progress is made in gp instead of sp, and it only costs 1/6 of market value rather than 1/3. you can make some deadly stuff

diplo: not only for getting feeble-minded NPCs on your side, but also for the (difficult to use but worth it) haggle use from complete adventurer. 10% on everything you buy/sell really adds up if you do it every single time.

tumble: provoking AoOs sucks. monsters are big and threaten a lot of squares, and most importantly, tumble can't be used untrained. this beats the hell out of casting defensively and losing the spell or wasting your whole round withdrawing. especially nice since the DC for 1 enemy is only 15.


my number one skill:

Disguise.

Get it high enough and you can do pretty much anything you want. Ranks, a kit, a hat of disguise, assistance from trained party members, and changing minor details only (whenever possible, impersonate a generic individual of your demographic so as to get the +5 and avoid any penalties) make you pretty much whoever you want to be. The possibilities are limited only by your imagination. A mundane disguise check laughs at illusion-piercing magic the same way that a mundane hide check does. There's nothing you can do with magic if it isn't magic itself, not even true seeing gets through a decent disguise check. Like bluff/sense motive, it is much much easier to get a sky-high disguise check than it is a correspondingly ridiculous spot check.

can you tell I play a chameleon?

[Othesemo]

Bluff, Diplomacy, Tumble, Autohypnosis, Spot

[metabolicjosh]

UBW
Underwater
Basket
Weaving

[Venger]

UBW
Underwater
Basket
Weaving

whoa.

Your DM lets you take ranks in that?

your campaign must be really deadly.

[pyromanser244]

gather info, sleight of hand, use rope, open lock, hide.

what can I say, I have a soft spot checks to see what the DM will let me get away with. gather info alone can walk you threw some death traps untouched.

[Tar Palantir]

Forgery. Only opposed by Forgery. No one ever has ranks in Forgery.

[sonofzeal]

A lot of good ones listed and I have none to add. But I do have a question.

Two people mentioned Balance. I am playing a monk (low op campaign) with a high Balance skill, but in 14 levels I have never been forced to make a Balance check. Jump, Tumble, Climb ==> yes. But not Balance.

I mean sure, there were a few times where the DM could have called for one, but I just don't see it as a critical skill - even for a physical-ability based character.

So, I'm just curious, in what situations do you find Balance so significant? (I note that a decent Dex and just a few ranks overcomes Grease)
Dex doesn't help you overcome Grease; you could have the dexterity of a treecat and still be flatfooted, unless you've got five ranks. And it's pretty easy for a Rogue to force balance checks - wands of Grease, or even just bags of marbles or vials of oil. Even for non-Rogues the benefits of rendering an opponent flatfooted can be significant if Dex is a substantial portion of its AC.

[Yukitsu]

Knowledge local, bluff, forgery, listen, sense motive in my opinion.

[AmberVael]

Spot and Listen: Because you can't do anything about something you're unaware of.
Sense Motive: Same as above, except we're not talking about ninjas.
Spellcraft: As above, except unknown magic is more terrifying than ninjas AND cunning socialites (or both at the same time!)
Diplomacy: Turns out, you can be a cunning socialite and not need to lie, and it only takes one skill instead of an entire class.

[Shotaro]

Since I mostly play a Rogue (After UMD)

Spot
Listen
Bluff (what's that you can see me? oh well guess I'll just feint to get my sneak attack)
Balance
Tumble

Open Lock/Disable Device and Search are all important to a rogue too - but they're all utilitarian and can be covered by casters (thankfully the guys who play those roles in my group often don't go overboard with that kind of stuff meaning that in a dungeon my rogue is useful for things other than combat)

[ericgrau]

A lot of good ones listed and I have none to add. But I do have a question.

Two people mentioned Balance. I am playing a monk (low op campaign) with a high Balance skill, but in 14 levels I have never been forced to make a Balance check. Jump, Tumble, Climb ==> yes. But not Balance.

I mean sure, there were a few times where the DM could have called for one, but I just don't see it as a critical skill - even for a physical-ability based character.

So, I'm just curious, in what situations do you find Balance so significant? (I note that a decent Dex and just a few ranks overcomes Grease)
Balance is for narrow ledges and crumbly floors in ancient ruins rather than perfectly flat floors. Most DMs think of pits and walls but not ledges and floors so unless he uses an adventuring module you'll probably never use it. Then you get 5 ranks.

[kitcik]

Balance is for narrow ledges and crumbly floors in ancient ruins rather than perfectly flat floors. Most DMs think of pits and walls but not ledges and floors so unless he uses an adventuring module you'll probably never use it. Then you get 5 ranks.

OK, I get it - you need 5 ranks for that kind of stuff and Grease.

I just read the OP differently - I read it more like "which skills do you want as high as possible?" I realize now that is not exactly what it said, but it seems like most people read it the same way.

I don't see any reason to near-max balance (as I have sadly done).

[ericgrau]

Show the DM this: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm or the matching section of the DMG ("Dungeons", most likely)
and it could make for some more interesting dungeons, some use of balance, and your own chance to shine over the non-rogues/monks.

But it also adds other flavor as well which is nice, not just balance for you to show off.

[Telonius]

Most important to keep as high as possible, regardless of class?

Diplomacy, Bluff, Tumble (maybe not as high as possible, but you're shooting for +15), Spot, Listen. Sense Motive is a close runner up, as is 5 ranks of Balance.

[Gnorman]

Knowledge (nature)
Knowledge (arcana)
Knowledge (the planes)
Knowledge (religion)
Knowledge (dungeoneering)

In that order. Covers almost all your monster identification bases (humanoids tend to be either faceless minions or BBEGs, so they're either easily identified by plot or totally unimportant), plus it's always awesome to be that guy in your campaign. So many things that they end up being relevant to. Dungeoneering is a little overly specific and could be switched out for Knowledge (local) in a pinch, depending on the campaign (i.e., dungeon crawlers would obviously want the former). Knowledge (local) is great if your DM doesn't force you to define what "local" is - it's a catch-all cultural cornucopia if so. I would never play a character that doesn't invest maximum ranks in at least three of those.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Knowledge (nature)
Knowledge (arcana)
Knowledge (the planes)
Knowledge (religion)
Knowledge (dungeoneering)

In that order. Covers almost all your monster identification bases (humanoids tend to be either faceless minions or BBEGs, so they're either easily identified by plot or totally unimportant), plus it's always awesome to be that guy in your campaign. So many things that they end up being relevant to. Dungeoneering is a little overly specific and could be switched out for Knowledge (local) in a pinch, depending on the campaign (i.e., dungeon crawlers would obviously want the former). Knowledge (local) is great if your DM doesn't force you to define what "local" is - it's a catch-all cultural cornucopia if so. I would never play a character that doesn't invest maximum ranks in at least three of those.

Local is awesome in almost all campaigns due this little gem



Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids)

I've yet to hear of a game where the party doesn't end at odd with the local Law:smallbiggrin:

[Venger]

I agree with your sentiment, but would say that local is important if your character uses knowledge devotion. humanoid faceless minions are pretty common, so scoring a couple of points of extra damage is nice, especially since they hardly ever have very many HD, so it's easier to get a big bonus.

[Calimehter]

I would think the answer would depend a bit on the levels being played.

I tend to run low-level games, and in those games Survival would creep into our top 5 list. Tracking people and not starving to death in the woods are good things at low levels!

[Person_Man]

I would say that there are two major categories of Skills, and that their relative importance (how you choose to invest in them via class, Int, magic items, and feats) depends on which category they belong to.

Some Skills usually or always require a fixed DC to be successful. These Skills typically require a DC of 15, 20, 25. Thus you need to invest X - relevant ability score - 1 - miscellaneous bonuses you might have to get 100% success within combat. Or if a Skill will only be used outside of combat you only need X - relevant ability score - 10 - (number of other players in group * 2) - miscellaneous bonuses you might have to get 100% success out of combat, because out of combat you can Take 10 and allies can use the Aid Another ability to assist you.

For example, Appraise rarely requires a DC higher then 20 to be successful, and is always used outside of combat because it requires a minute to use. If you have an Int of 14, Take 10 on your check, and are playing with 2 other players who can reliable use the Aid Another ability to assist you on the Skills, then you only need to invest 3 Skills points into it to be 100% successful in most situations. So you've fulfilled a function which is potentially very important (is it worth hauling any of this back home, or worth taking the time to steal this) for a minimal investment.


Other Skills usually or always require opposed checks to be successful. Thus, if you've decided to use them, then you should fully invest in them to the point where you can defeat a "boss" enemy with that Skills the vast majority of the time. This is where the "importance" of the Skill (how much you should invest in them) really comes into play, because you could theoretically invest a large number of resources into getting that Skill sky high.

In that regards, I would say that the only truly important Skills would be Listen, Spot, and Sense Motive, as they protect you from being defeated by enemies who invest heavily in Move Silently, Hide, and Bluff.

[DeusMortuusEst]

Knowledge (Whatever the campaign is about) - So that you know what you're fighting/protecting/eating
Knowledge (Local) - Humanoids are typically the go-to guys for services. Knowing where to find the closest artificer can be pretty good.
Gather Information - When Know (local) doesn't cut it
Diplomacy - To get the artificer to sell you that macguffin.
Bluff - To get the artificer to sell you that macguffin.
Iaijutsu Focus - To get the artificer to sell you that macguffin.

So yea, I value knowledge very high.

[SamBurke]

Diplomacy.

Diplomacy.

Diplomacy.

Perception.

And, then, last but not least:

Diplomacy.

[OzzyKP]

So there are some skills you'll want to max out (it seems Diplomacy, Spot, Listen are on that list) and some skills you absolutely need, but maybe you don't absolutely need that much of.

For all the various skills what level of investment should you be comfortable with?

[Crasical]

Forgery. Only opposed by Forgery. No one ever has ranks in Forgery.



5.-Forgery, because... who takes forgery?

The 'Opposed by forgery, no-one takes forgery' line became so memetic in my group that people started actually taking ranks in Forgery, and eventually the DM started having Experts with the skill as part of noble courts and large businesses to counter it.

[Kelb_Panthera]

A lot of good ones listed and I have none to add. But I do have a question.

Two people mentioned Balance. I am playing a monk (low op campaign) with a high Balance skill, but in 14 levels I have never been forced to make a Balance check. Jump, Tumble, Climb ==> yes. But not Balance.

I mean sure, there were a few times where the DM could have called for one, but I just don't see it as a critical skill - even for a physical-ability based character.

So, I'm just curious, in what situations do you find Balance so significant? (I note that a decent Dex and just a few ranks overcomes Grease)

Balance an be fun if you're out doors. Jump up and balance on a tree branch that's too small to support your weight just to show the enemy you're a badass? Yes please.

If you can reliably hit DC 90 you can walk on water, which is also very cool.

For my five,

Sense motive - because you really want to be able to tell if that opponent is too strong to kill

Spot and Listen, because nobody likes being snuck up on. Listen if you can only pick one or the other.

Spellcraft - because not knowing what that wierd magical effect is can be worse than being snuck up on.

and Tumble - because tumble.

[falloutimperial]

Diplomacy- for buying that tricorn.
Bluff- for explaining how you got that tricorn. (See sleight of hand below.)
Knowledge (local)- for knowing where to get that tricorn.
Sleight of hand- for getting a free tricorn.
Use rope- for tying ropes.

[Seffbasilisk]

Appraise: Treasure. It's worth stuff.
Bluff: You agree with me. Really.
Listen: There's bad stuff comin'.
Sense Motive: Bluff and bluster at me boyo?
Tumble: Your polearm just slows me down.

[Flickerdart]

I'd say Spot is more valuable than Listen. While Invisibility is broken by attack, Silence isn't. A particularly skilled hider could harass you from within a sphere of Silence and all your listening won't do much, but it takes 4th level spells to do that with Invisibility, and the duration on Greater Invis makes such a tactic unreliable. Plus, True Seeing cuts through Invisibility, meaning that most people will be investing in Hide which you'll have to beat with Spot, especially if they have Darkstalker.

[Dumbledore lives]

To the people saying diplomacy is important I'm afraid I have a different opinion, and that is laser sword diplomacy, also called intimidate. Besides that bluff is pretty important, as is spot, search, and let's say all the knowledges, because those are the standard skills for my characters.

[Felandria]

Perception
Bluff
Knowledge (arcana)
Diplomacy
Intimidate

[Dictum Mortuum]

Intimidate: it's just good, not broken like diplomacy, lowers saves and has rp uses.
Knowledge(Nature): many creature types fall into this category; especially those that you'll be facing early.
Craft(whatever): because more for less is good.
Spellcraft: because I play casters.
Use Magic Device: because I like familiars.