Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers

[lord_khaine]

Well, congratulations guys, we finaly reached thread II in our discussion of the Fairy Tail manga.

It came as a bit of a surprise, so we didnt manage to agree on a title, but we can quickly try and agree on one.

My personal suggestion is "friendship is power"

Edit.

Seems the majority were for this title.

[Hopeless]

Well, congratulations guys, we finaly reached thread II in our discussion of the Fairy Tail manga.

It came as a bit of a surprise, so we didnt manage to agree on a title, but we can quickly try and agree on one.

My personal suggestion is "friendship is power"

What? are they introducing the ponies or the care bears to the story?

Oh, OH you mean Natsu's power ups!

Okay the new thread caught me by surprise!

[DiscipleofBob]

Fairy Tail II: Minecart Magic

[Dusk Eclipse]

Re: Title: Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers

So new chapter.
Nothing much in the chapter itself; but the implications of it are scary and awesome, first we have a scarred Levy writing to Lucy... and she mentions at least 4 o 5 people have died... and there is this girl with Zereff-like powers whose identity can make freaking Jerall crap in his pants....

[DiscipleofBob]

So who is the mysterious stranger?

Three guesses:

Ichiya.

The cat who looks like Ichiya.

A cat who looks like Jellal.

[lord_khaine]

ok, this have my vote now :smallsmile:


Re: Title: Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers

[Infernally Clay]

So three people will die and there's weight to Gajeel being one of them. As for who the mysterious woman is, I'm leaning towards the Edolas version of Erza.

/random

[jindra34]

So three people will die and there's weight to Gajeel being one of them. As for who the mysterious woman is, I'm leaning towards the Edolas version of Erza.

/random

If were going with potential Edo versions of people why not Edo-Zeref, who because they went missing caused Edolas not to have magic in the same sense.

[Drolyt]

Re: Title: Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers
I vote for this.
In other news, I think the person Jellal finds is probably someone from the future.

[INoKnowNames]

Re: Title: Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers

+1 Vote

The Graveyard of Dragons doesn't interest anyone else at all?

[CWater]

Re: Title: Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers
My vote goes for this too:smalltongue:

Chapter
Hoo, this one was interesting.. A lot of hinting is nice:smallamused: But I wonder what we should expect from that '5 people' dying thing.. Since so few characters have ever actually died in Fairy Tail, I fear it's just an empty scare to rise suspension.

...Not that I would wish any of the main charcaters to die, so maybe that wouldn't be too bad.:smalltongue:

[Dusk Eclipse]

I was more interested in the possible flash-forward, though now that you mention it, it is possible that Gajeel might die there fighting against an undead Dragon (bonus irony points if it is Metalicana)>_>

Edit: Woo People like my idea :smallbiggrin:

I don't know why it feels so good and if I should feel like that ... >_> <_<

[Forum Explorer]

I still like Minecart Magic better.



On the new chapter it was interesting but I've got no faith in it turning out.

[Xondoure]

Fairy Tail II: Minecart Magic

Thirded? I assume Forum Explorer meant this one but perhaps not.

[lord_khaine]

In other news, I think the person Jellal finds is probably someone from the future.

This is an interesting theory, and it does goes wery well with the hints we have of things going to end in blood and tears.


The Graveyard of Dragons doesn't interest anyone else at all?

Slightly, though would be more interesting if we knew their cause of dead, did they die from natural causes or were they killed?

[Xondoure]

This is an interesting theory, and it does goes wery well with the hints we have of things going to end in blood and tears.



Slightly, though would be more interesting if we knew their cause of dead, did they die from natural causes or were they killed?

My guess is it's left over from that ancient ceremony thing we saw on the wall earlier.

[INoKnowNames]

So... it has been decided.


Slightly, though would be more interesting if we knew their cause of dead, did they die from natural causes or were they killed?

They seem like they somehow did naturally... who could kill a Dragon? Think Natsu could actually slay his Dragon at this point? Well, power wise, not merely willingness.

I don't actually know how strong Dragons are beyond seeing that big boss dragon blow up the island and send everyone 7 years into the future.

[Xondoure]

So... it has been decided.



They seem like they somehow did naturally... who could kill a Dragon? Think Natsu could actually slay his Dragon at this point? Well, power wise, not merely willingness.

I don't actually know how strong Dragons are beyond seeing that big boss dragon blow up the island and send everyone 7 years into the future.

I think Natsu could, but no one else in Fairy Tail. And he'd have a hard time against any other dragon. That's the way dragonslaying works in FT after all, by consuming their element to become strong enough to beat them.

[lord_khaine]

My guess is it's left over from that ancient ceremony thing we saw on the wall earlier.

It might very well be connected to that thing if nothing else.


I think Natsu could, but no one else in Fairy Tail. And he'd have a hard time against any other dragon. That's the way dragonslaying works in FT after all, by consuming their element to become strong enough to beat them.

I honestly think Gildarts, Makarov or Laxus has a better chance at doing so.

Anyway, thinking closer about the timetraveler theory, i am now suspecting it to be Urtear, seing as she is the most likely candidate for learning to timetravel.

[Dusk Eclipse]

So a "x character returns in time to avoid doom plot" then? Could work; but I don't think it is that simple.

[INoKnowNames]

So a "x character returns in time to avoid doom plot" then? Could work; but I don't think it is that simple.

When time travel comes in, simplicity goes out the door.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I meant that while plot and/or implications of time travel are not simple, the structure of the that kind of plot is relatively simple.

[Forum Explorer]

Thirded? I assume Forum Explorer meant this one but perhaps not.

yeah that's what I meant. Oh well perhaps next time.

[lord_khaine]

yeah that's what I meant. Oh well perhaps next time.

Were still more votes for the other title from what i could see.

[Kato]

I need to keep paying attention when a new thread starts...

Aaaanyway, new chapter. My reaction at the end?
HIRO YOU ******* TROLL, HOW DARE YOU TAKE A BREAK WITH THAT CLIFFHANGER? I WILL FIND YOU AND TORTURE THE ANSWER OUT OF YOU!!!
But I'm better now...

Anyway, yeah, there was a lot of interesting stuff... everyone is going to ally against Fairy Tail... well, that means every Fairy Tail Mage needs to handle one guild and.. a bit more. That's not much of a challenge. Hahaha.....
I'll agree with the graveyard being leftovers from the tourney/ritual/whatever. Makes the most sense. It's still weird how that stuff is there and where the mine cart track suddenly came from that lead down there.
Concerning Levy's letter... I... I honestly don't believe anyone will die. Oh, I might be totally wrong there but I feel nobody will die in this arc. Or maybe in FT ever. Not that I wouldn't be happy if we get a great death scene but... I don't believe in it. This is Fairy Tail, after all. (Haha, sure OP readers were saying the same back in the days...)
And for the mysterious person... I have no idea. It's might be someone we never met, but it is unlikely. My guess is someone bacl from the... what was that arc? When Natsu fought Jellal to save Erza at the end? Some little girl from back then who also had some connection to Zeref when he possessed Jellal. But I can't recall a fitting character and I'm too lazy to search the archive, to be honest.

[ThiagoMartell]

So who do you think is gonna die? (I don't think death will be permanent, it might even be only apparent, but...)

My money is on Elfman, for starters.

[Zaydos]

Going with the apparent death only idea it might be cool if it was the dragonslayers. We have indications its 5 people, one of whom is Gajeel, would match with the 1st and 3rd generation dragonslayers we have assembled. The 2nd generation (Laxus) would get off by not being actually connected to a dragon. Sure two aren't FT but if they died fighting on the same side I think Levy would still be distraught over it.

[Xondoure]

Why does repeating the word death five times mean exactly five will die? Maybe it's a massacre, maybe it's just Gajeel.

[Kato]

So who do you think is gonna die? (I don't think death will be permanent, it might even be only apparent, but...)

My money is on Elfman, for starters.

Hm... I guess Lucy is out of the question if the letter is addressed to her. Then again, why would Levy write a letter to Lucy? Maybe it's like a letter to a dead friend thing...
Gajeel makes only sense because it is Levy... not for any plot reason I can see.
I'm not sure how serious Hiro was with Erza's near death way back... or Makarov nearly dying once or twice.
My most likely guess if we are talking real death is Jellal. For... no real reason.
But with fake out deaths, what I expect, it's anyone, most probably the usual member... Natsu, Erza, Gray... those.

[Hopeless]

Anime filler:
So Fairy Tail arrive at Zenotopia the wizard council chicken out again even after their operative figured out who was responsible, finally the head of the Legion went after the Cardinal and Gildartz performs an uppercut!
Imitatia is getting a mite possessive of Lucy...

Curious the manga is getting interesting...
Gajeel finds the Dragons Graveyard, seems the Festival might be some kind of means to decide who rules the roost maybe?

[INoKnowNames]

Think Master Makarov might be out the door if people really are about to be killed off? Force someone else to take over?

[ThiagoMartell]

Makarov could have had such an awesome death back in the island. Killing him now would be a mistake, IMHO.

[Kato]

Makarov could have had such an awesome death back in the island. Killing him now would be a mistake, IMHO.

He can still have an awesome death, I guess.

Anyway, I forgive Hiro for the cliffhanger. Today was just much too entertaining to be disappointed.

Fairy Tail goes to fanservice land! Or a... what do you call it? Water park? Indoor pool? Anyway, lots of bikinis and funny stuff.
If it wasn't already, Evergreen and Elfman is canon now (for me, anyway :smalltongue: ), Mystogan with his mask in the bath looks hilarious, Hiro really loves to draw breasts and tease us but that is nothing new.
The only kind of serious thing was Scarlet showing up and apologizing to Lucy. I wonder if this is going anywhere.
And... is it just me or do Wendy and Sherry look much more... grown up than one would think it that one shot.

Yeah, the chapter was all fanservice and jokes, but I love FT for it's jokes.

[Socratov]

I'm beginning to think collateral damage isn't FT's specialty per se, but more like Natsu's specialty...

[Drolyt]

I'm beginning to think collateral damage isn't FT's specialty per se, but more like Natsu's specialty...
Natsu is the collateral damage specialist in a guild that specializes in collateral damage; Fairy Tail is property damage personified. I'm pretty sure that Harry Dresden is a member of Fairy Tail as well.

[ThiagoMartell]

What was this chapter, filler in manga form? :smallconfused:

[Drolyt]

What was this chapter, filler in manga form? :smallconfused:
Yeah, manga can have filler. I still liked it though.

[slayerx]

What was this chapter, filler in manga form? :smallconfused:

Mashima: "Last chapter was very foreboding. Darkness looms over our heroes. **** is about to get real. So have a whole chapter of fanservice!" :smalltongue:

Mashima can be such a troll, but he's a fun kind of troll.

[Exsens]

This chapter seriously had me smiling throughout. I just couldn't believe how erza had no visible scars or wounds after the 100 monster battle, and mystogan in the pool, HILARIOUS!

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fanservice.Fanservice everywhere.

Still funny though.

[lord_khaine]

I did find it pretty hilarious how Makarov and Laxus were taking the first out swimming though, Laxus is slowly being turned into a singel dad :smalltongue:

[Hopeless]

Anime Filler
Michelle plucks Samuel out of the air.
Gildarts gives Byro a lesson on fist fights before one punching him!
Brain 2 after Gajeel nearly slices him pretty much throws him out of the renamed Infinity Castle and Gildarts tries to catch him of course the pillar he's holding onto breaks and the pair go falling down below where the airship was last seen.
Ezra and Cobra go toe to toe.
Angel and Gray are apparently the fight next episode and Wendy cures the archbishop giving Happy the idea that if they beat all the members of Oracion Seis then Lucy will be released ala the Phantom Guild saga.
Master Zero was a puppet which he didn't know about so that might mean Zero is still out there...

Oh and Elfman has a funny sequence!

Manga:
Hmm actually very funny I wonder how many other people could have pulled that off with Ezra?
Yeah nobody else could do that!

Loved the bit where Ezra was telling people off then ignored a certain member of Blue Pegasus who is supposed to be able to freak her out!
Reminded me from back when she was first introduced in the anime series!

[Dusk Eclipse]

Does anyone knows of a good Fairy Tail AMV? I am kinda in the mood for something like that.

[CWater]

Does anyone knows of a good Fairy Tail AMV? I am kinda in the mood for something like that.

I think these few are not too bad:smallsmile:
Edolas Arc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFmlSvz1IxQ) -fast and flashy:smallbiggrin:
Erza's Past (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfAbG4tvK6Q) -I like the composition:smalltongue:
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSIqf1g06Yg) is War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PKxwV2_LIo&feature=related) -seriously, there are amvs of every series to this song:smallamused: I like the first one better of these two

[Dusk Eclipse]

Thanks, I'll watch them later today.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Thanks, I'll watch them later today.

[Cen]

Update!
but it's a filler :(

[Infernally Clay]

Gildartz is such a goof... :smalltongue:

[Dusk Eclipse]

If that is how he behaves himself when near pretty women, I am wondering why does Kanna doesn't have any brothers or sisters... that we know of :smalltongue:

I also liked that it was entirely without dialogue, I thinks it conveys the situation much better that if he had used dialogue.

[Forum Explorer]

I liked this chapter even though it was filler. Particularly the complete lack of dialogue.

[Socratov]

I liked it as well, the dialogue wasn't that neccessary and he did show the guild's trademark :smallbiggrin:

[Drolyt]

I like how the author is experimenting with leaving out the dialogue, reminds me of some Calvin and Hobbes strips which omitted the dialogue to great effect. Really good chapter.

[LaZodiac]

Probably one of the best Fairy Tail chapters in awhile. Gildartz is the best.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Pretty cool side-story. Gildarts gets to show off his power, even if the last bit was accidental. I remember Negima experimenting with a dialogue-less chapter at one time. I'm sure the translators appreciate it too, for a different reason.

[ThiagoMartell]

So the filler was just to get the interesting stuff to happen at chapter 300. Hm.

[Dusk Eclipse]

It is a good manga, so I feel the Author is entitled to want a milestone to be important. Imagine if he had us wait till issue # 777:smalleek: Not even One Piece has reached that number.

[Kato]

So the filler was just to get the interesting stuff to happen at chapter 300. Hm.

Nah, this is Hiro. 300 will be a total lame troll chapter and then at 304 or something epic stuff will go down.

I'll agree that the chapter was nice and the lack of dialogue didn't hurt at all (though now that I think about it Kishimoto did the same just two weeks ago although for something that was not a filler. Well, it wasn't an entire chapter either. Maybe I'm just overthinking things)
But... Gildartz didn't really get to show off much. Except maybe that accident at the end. Ah, whatever.

[INoKnowNames]

I just want to say this: DAMN YOU SAKURAI!

http://img.mangastream.com/m/3/85583456/152231f3a9e15ccd5123f96ca83810ff.png

Lol Trip.

[LaZodiac]

The above is another bit of evidence as to why I think Gildartz is the best character in the manga.

[Hopeless]

The above is another bit of evidence as to why I think Gildartz is the best character in the manga.

And why unlike Laxus, Natsu looks up to Gildartz so much, who else could inspire Fairy Tail's own one man demolisher of ports?!:smallbiggrin:

[Cen]

New chapter!
Well that makes Sabertooth out of tournament I suppose...

[Xondoure]

Juri I mean the Sabertooth chick is shaping up to be a rather interesting villain.

[lord_khaine]

Well, that was certainly disapointing, from a guy who talked so much about strenght Genma sure went down fast, though its not like it wasnt well deserved, the guy was a jerk and a fool.

Overall, if his daughter takes over then it will proberly be a net gain for ST.

[jindra34]

New chapter!
Well that makes Sabertooth out of tournament I suppose...

Maybe not. They still have their five man team, and none of them are the guildmaster yet. So technically no rules will have been broken.

[Xondoure]

Well, that was certainly disapointing, from a guy who talked so much about strenght Genma sure went down fast, though its not like it wasnt well deserved, the guy was a jerk and a fool.

Overall, if his daughter takes over then it will proberly be a net gain for ST.

Dragonslayers are powered by emotions. After just heartlessly killing Sting's best friend in front of him? Yeah, I'm not sure anyone could take that blow.

[Cen]

Maybe not. They still have their five man team, and none of them are the guildmaster yet. So technically no rules will have been broken.

Yeah, but I don't think Sting and Rouge will be in mood to participate :|
Also Sting is now a murderer, right? Isn't murdering like a crime or something ;-)

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think Guilds have some leeway and I can't help; but think the smirking chick from ST will say something like "In ST a member can challenge the Master to a duel to death for the leadership, and you can also choose someone to fight in your stead. I challenged Master and asked Sting to fight for me"

Or perhaps I am sleep deprived and only make sense in my head.

[tyckspoon]

I think Guilds have some leeway and I can't help; but think the smirking chick from ST will say something like "In ST a member can challenge the Master to a duel to death for the leadership, and you can also choose someone to fight in your stead. I challenged Master and asked Sting to fight for me"



Fighting for the Master position makes sense, with ST's Might Makes Right philosophy- obviously you want the most powerful mage to be the Master so he can lead the Guild more strongly. Having a champion fight for you doesn't- that doesn't prove that you are strong enough to be the Master, it proves your champion is and should be Master instead.

[Cen]

Fighting for the Master position makes sense, with ST's Might Makes Right philosophy- obviously you want the most powerful mage to be the Master so he can lead the Guild more strongly. Having a champion fight for you doesn't- that doesn't prove that you are strong enough to be the Master, it proves your champion is and should be Master instead.

Also that would make Sting or Minerva a guild master - breaking their tournament team.

[lord_khaine]

Dragonslayers are powered by emotions. After just heartlessly killing Sting's best friend in front of him? Yeah, I'm not sure anyone could take that blow.
Cough*Hades*cought :smalltongue:

Also, had he been worth the title of GM he would newer have let it connect in the first place.


I think Guilds have some leeway and I can't help; but think the smirking chick from ST will say something like "In ST a member can challenge the Master to a duel to death for the leadership, and you can also choose someone to fight in your stead. I challenged Master and asked Sting to fight for me"

Or perhaps I am sleep deprived and only make sense in my head.

Whatever internal rules ST might have doesnt matter when they break the rules of the kingdom, and i am pretty sure they have rules about killing your own guild master.

[Dusk Eclipse]

As I said I am a bit sleep deprived and didn't think things fully. Besides I was talking more about the legal implications of killing the master, not their standing in the Tournament, which we know will be interrupted rather soon.

[Drolyt]

Yeah, but I don't think Sting and Rouge will be in mood to participate :|
Also Sting is now a murderer, right? Isn't murdering like a crime or something ;-)
Assuming the bastard is actually dead I doubt he would actually be convicted of anything for lashing out at someone who just murdered his friend right in front of him, especially if this is a feudal society.

[Fiery Diamond]

Eeep.

I went to read the new chapter.

And I went:

Holy **** that got dark fast. ST Master doesn't deserve to die that easily. He should have what ST chick did to Lucy done to him, be healed, have it done again, be healed, have it done again, and THEN be ripped into a million little pieces.

[Kato]

Ok, that was quite a surprise. And kind of disappointing since we know hardly anything new concerning... well, anything but ST. As interesting as that was.

I guess Sting could plead self defense or something like that here... Who knows what that **** would have done next. he just took... the safest course of action. I like how Rouge jumped to protect Frosch. So cute. Though, I'd not be surprised if he didn't somehow survive... seems way to easy to finish him off. Then again Makarov nearly died to... what was that guys name? The one Phantom Lord.

Otherwise... we will apparently get some interesting stuff on dragons soon. That's pretty much it...


edit:
anime spoilers

So... Michelle/Imitatia was a DOLL. An effing doll. Okay, I can see a filler not being on par with the main arc but I call major BS on that one. Thanks guys, thanks a lot.

[INoKnowNames]

Also Sting is now a murderer, right? Isn't murdering like a crime or something ;-)

..... I didn't think there were actually Laws in the Fairy Tail universe. With most people being Magic and capable of blowing up entire cities by tripping (DAMN YOU SAKURAI), I sure as heck would hate to be the town guard.

"Excuse me, sir, but we have to capture this criminal."
"What'd he do?"
"Um... he kinda just blew a hole in the chest of the guild master of the strongest force of fighting mages in the country."
"... I quit."

[Hopeless]

..... I didn't think there were actually Laws in the Fairy Tail universe. With most people being Magic and capable of blowing up entire cities by tripping (DAMN YOU SAKURAI), I sure as heck would hate to be the town guard.

"Excuse me, sir, but we have to capture this criminal."
"What'd he do?"
"Um... he kinda just blew a hole in the chest of the guild master of the strongest force of fighting mages in the country."
"... I quit."

Just in case you haven't read that issue of the manga...
Natsu: So why did he do that?
Makarov: He basically killed his version of Happy...
Natsu: WHAT he killed HAPPY! (goes ballistic)
Happy: I'm right here!
Natsu: I thought you said...
Ezra: Idiot! He said the sabertooth guildmaster murdered Sting's Exceed companion right in front of him and Sting punched a hole in the guildmaster's chest killing him!
Natsu and Gajeel glance at each other as the three Exceed's look at each other: GOOD for him!

Anime Filler:
Pretty much figured that out when Gildarts and the other wizardress found out she was a spy, the fact she was Lucy's favourite childhood toy was a surprise though.
Brain or whatever he's calling himself is overdue for a buttkicking, question is will he be absorbed by the infinity clock releasing Lucy because that would be poetic justice at this moment!

[INoKnowNames]

Just in case you haven't read that issue of the manga...
Natsu: So why did he do that?
Makarov: He basically killed his version of Happy...
Natsu: WHAT he killed HAPPY! (goes ballistic)
Happy: I'm right here!
Natsu: I thought you said...
Ezra: Idiot! He said the sabertooth guildmaster murdered Sting's Exceed companion right in front of him and Sting punched a hole in the guildmaster's chest killing him!
Natsu and Gajeel glance at each other as the three Exceed's look at each other: GOOD for him!

Well yeah, the Magic Mages would think like that. I'm thinking more about who has to clean up after all the guilds. 'cause this certainly won't go down easy.

You got your Dragon Slayers with their massive property damage, you've got guild leaders being murdered, you've got your innocent little cat dudes being blown up.... the local police force probably can't even touch anyone without the entire squad getting taken down with minimal effort. Especially since half of these crimes are being committed by the strongest gang in existance...

That's actually a good way to put it: you've got a bunch of Super Powered Gang Babies. Who's gonna even remotely keep them in line?

[Cen]

Well yeah, the Magic Mages would think like that. I'm thinking more about who has to clean up after all the guilds. 'cause this certainly won't go down easy.

You got your Dragon Slayers with their massive property damage, you've got guild leaders being murdered, you've got your innocent little cat dudes being blown up.... the local police force probably can't even touch anyone without the entire squad getting taken down with minimal effort. Especially since half of these crimes are being committed by the strongest gang in existance...

That's actually a good way to put it: you've got a bunch of Super Powered Gang Babies. Who's gonna even remotely keep them in line?

Oh? wasn't the point of Jellal hiding his identity to keep it secret from Magic Council Army? you know, the people who arrest rouge mages? you know, the magic police force. the people who fight mages. because they are mages too. and they can fight mages. cause they are, you know, mages trained to fight mages.



Assuming the bastard is actually dead I doubt he would actually be convicted of anything for lashing out at someone who just murdered his friend right in front of him, especially if this is a feudal society.

He killed a cat. Talking cat, but still a cat. Yes it wasn't nice but in response Sting killed a man. And not an ordinary man - a leader of strongest guild in Fiore - so he was somehow influential. Killed in a town full of Rune Knights - a magic police force. No, I don't think he will be able to escape it in any legal way.

[INoKnowNames]

Oh? wasn't the point of Jellal hiding his identity to keep it secret from Magic Council Army? you know, the people who arrest rouge mages? you know, the magic police force. the people who fight mages. because they are mages too. and they can fight mages. cause they are, you know, mages trained to fight mages.

Oh. Right then. I'm surprised Fairy Tail's gotten away with all of their property damage, then. But I suppose that puts my thoughts to rest.


He killed a cat. Talking cat, but still a cat. Yes it wasn't nice but in response Sting killed a man. And not an ordinary man - a leader of strongest guild in Fiore - so he was somehow influential. Killed in a town full of Rune Knights - a magic police force. No, I don't think he will be able to escape it in any legal way.

Well, he could claim self defense... though I agree this certainly isn't about to end prettily.

I thought that the creatures like Happy had rights... though I'm admitedly the least versed in the knowledge of Fairy Tail of the manga that I read. Probably why I love it the most; I'm ignorant of any of it's flaws.

[Kato]

Oh? wasn't the point of Jellal hiding his identity to keep it secret from Magic Council Army? you know, the people who arrest rouge mages? you know, the magic police force. the people who fight mages. because they are mages too. and they can fight mages. cause they are, you know, mages trained to fight mages.
Still, how powerful do you think the police mages are? It's not like real world, where more people=more weapons=better chance of winning. If a mage guild hoes rouge, I'm sure even the police force would be at a loss and needed to recruit another guild or two for a somehow fair chance. Otherwise, if the police mages were that powerful, why wouldn't they compete in the tourney or... something? Fiore is clearly strongly dependent on the goodwill of the guilds.


He killed a cat. Talking cat, but still a cat. Yes it wasn't nice but in response Sting killed a man. And not an ordinary man - a leader of strongest guild in Fiore - so he was somehow influential. Killed in a town full of Rune Knights - a magic police force. No, I don't think he will be able to escape it in any legal way.
Are you seriously implying an Exceed, a talking, sensitive, intelligent cat is inferior to a human in a legal sense? You're kidding, right? Yeah, what Rogue did was not okay but it can be justified. And it wasn't worse than what GM did. Cold blooded murder against... well... kind of revenge or possibly self-defense.

[Cen]

I thought that the creatures like Happy had rights... though I'm admitedly the least versed in the knowledge of Fairy Tail of the manga that I read. Probably why I love it the most; I'm ignorant of any of it's flaws.

I don't think it was stated anywhere so we can only speculate if Exceed have human rights and laws :/ But judging from Jemma's reaction - I don't think so.

[INoKnowNames]

Still, how powerful do you think the police mages are? It's not like real world, where more people=more weapons=better chance of winning. If a mage guild hoes rouge, I'm sure even the police force would be at a loss and needed to recruit another guild or two for a somehow fair chance. Otherwise, if the police mages were that powerful, why wouldn't they compete in the tourney or... something? Fiore is clearly strongly dependent on the goodwill of the guilds.


Are you seriously implying an Exceed, a talking, sensitive, intelligent cat is inferior to a human in a legal sense? You're kidding, right? Yeah, what Rogue did was not okay but it can be justified. And it wasn't worse than what GM did. Cold blooded murder against... well... kind of revenge or possibly self-defense.

See, this is exactly what I thought.

[Cen]

About power of wizard police - sure, I don't think they are very strong but they can fight in numbers untill oponent runes out of juice (like in Baldur's Gate 2 opening sequence - Ironicus vs Cowled Wizards). Still, it's hard to speculate about their fighting strength because we've never seen them in a fight ;-)
Also - how do you think a guildless police member would be able to participate in guild tournament?



Are you seriously implying an Exceed, a talking, sensitive, intelligent cat is inferior to a human in a legal sense?

I honestly don't know... would magic council even care to take time and make sure all of the... what... 5? 6? exceed were guaranteed laws equal to a human? I can see it going both ways...

[Forum Explorer]

Still, how powerful do you think the police mages are? It's not like real world, where more people=more weapons=better chance of winning. If a mage guild hoes rouge, I'm sure even the police force would be at a loss and needed to recruit another guild or two for a somehow fair chance. Otherwise, if the police mages were that powerful, why wouldn't they compete in the tourney or... something? Fiore is clearly strongly dependent on the goodwill of the guilds.


Are you seriously implying an Exceed, a talking, sensitive, intelligent cat is inferior to a human in a legal sense? You're kidding, right? Yeah, what Rogue did was not okay but it can be justified. And it wasn't worse than what GM did. Cold blooded murder against... well... kind of revenge or possibly self-defense.

Well we've seen them recruit guilds before to take down a dark guild.

Now while an Exceed deserves to be equal in a legal sense does not mean that they actually are. So with that in mind perhaps the ST GM didn't do anything legally wrong.

[jindra34]

I honestly don't know... would magic council even care to take time and make sure all of the... what... 5? 6? exceed were guaranteed laws equal to a human? I can see it going both ways...

Given that this is at least 7 years after the Edolas arc, and at the end of that arc all of them crossed over (iirc) and there were already 1000 in the world of Fiore, I don't think its as small an issue as you are making it out to be.

[Drolyt]

He killed a cat. Talking cat, but still a cat. Yes it wasn't nice but in response Sting killed a man. And not an ordinary man - a leader of strongest guild in Fiore - so he was somehow influential. Killed in a town full of Rune Knights - a magic police force. No, I don't think he will be able to escape it in any legal way.
Even if we assume that the cat was only property, such a blatant attack on another's property could be considered cause for lethal retribution in a feudal society, and Fiore is a feudal society, albeit one apparently on the verge of some sort of magic-industrialization (wasn't Lucy's father a railroad tycoon?). Remember that throughout most of human history legal justifications for homicide were easier to meet, and even under modern standards (mostly limited to self defense) Sting would at the very least go under a lesser crime.

[Cen]

Even if we assume that the cat was only property, such a blatant attack on another's property could be considered cause for lethal retribution in a feudal society.

Oh yes, you are right. Good thing that Fairy Tail mages never destroyed anybodys' property while fighting or on a mission. they would be surely beheaded in a country with such a strict property ownership law.

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC the guild had some money issues due clients asking for compensation of the damaged property and there is also the "faux" arrest of Erza near the beginning of the story. So while retribution with deathly force is a first, retribution for damaged property isn't.

[INoKnowNames]

Oh yes, you are right. Good thing that Fairy Tail mages never destroyed anybodys' property while fighting or on a mission. they would be surely beheaded in a country with such a strict property ownership law.

Again, who exactly is going to come after them for it? The strongest guilds so far have all proven to be weaker than them, with some members capable of soloing entire groups of others. And, as you yourself have stated, the magic army hasn't been seen in action, so we really have no idea if they're this universe's version of Storm Troopers or not. Given how most generic guards are treated in fiction, it's probably a safe bet, though.

[Cen]

Again, who exactly is going to come after them for it? The strongest guilds so far have all proven to be weaker than them, with some members capable of soloing entire groups of others. And, as you yourself have stated, the magic army hasn't been seen in action, so we really have no idea if they're this universe's version of Storm Troopers or not. Given how most generic guards are treated in fiction, it's probably a safe bet, though.

No. What you are implying is that the only reason why FT mages aren't in prison is because people are scared of them and they are too strong.
Council could have easily declar FT illegal and make it target for other guilds. Yes the are strong, but they were almost annihilated by Phantom Lords. They can be defeated.

[Kato]

Of course a guild can be defeated but taking the "we throw police men/soldiers at them until they can not kill anymore" tactic seems like those jobs are... unattractive would be quite an understatement. Maybe they really have elite forces for such things we don't really know about yet or special tactics but from what I can see in the story they are really mostly relying on a) the guilds being made up of weak guys and b) a single guild turning evil being the possible target of all other guilds in Fiore due to the magic council.


Also, back on the Exceed business...as Jindra said, there were at leadt a few hundred Exceed migrating into Fiore after the Edolas arc. Yeah, those are still a minority but it would be very strange if they'd not be given the same personal rights as all sentient beings. (Well, humans, in that case)
Also... I wonder if we will ever see the Exceed kingdom again... or are they really living like savages in some government hosted ghetto separated from humans?

[Drolyt]

Again, who exactly is going to come after them for it? The strongest guilds so far have all proven to be weaker than them, with some members capable of soloing entire groups of others. And, as you yourself have stated, the magic army hasn't been seen in action, so we really have no idea if they're this universe's version of Storm Troopers or not. Given how most generic guards are treated in fiction, it's probably a safe bet, though.
They actually outright said that the normal army was no match for a guild early in the manga, but we also know there are "rune knights" that are strong enough to deal with guilds, they are the ones who arrested Jellal and tried to interfere with Fairy Tail on Tenrou Island.

[Dusk Eclipse]

New Chapter

So it was an exposition heavy chapter; but it is quite interesting, apparently the more a Dragon Slayer uses his magic the more Draconic he becomes and Acknowlgia killed so many dragons he became the Dragon. Freaking.King. My already high respect for Gildartz shoot even higher.

This arc antagonis has been revealed and I am sure Lucy will get the remaining Gold keys by the end of the arc; but the thing that bothers me the most is that I am not sure if the final BBEG will be Zereff or Acknowlgia.

[lord_khaine]

This certainly moved the plot ahead by quite a lot, though im not sure it was using DS magic alone that created the Dragon king.

To start with we were told he was bathing in their blood, that might have been influencing thing, and Zeref might also have had a hand in the transformation.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Crap I can't remember the X Dragon scales was spell/techniques by itself or if it was a by-product of using other spells/techniques. Though now that you mention it, it probably has something to do with Zereff.

Crazy Theory Time: Dragons came to be because long before the Dragon's Kings Festival Zeref* created the Dragon Slaying magic and people abused it so much that they turned into dragons forgetting their life as human!





*Not to be taken seriously.

[Hopeless]

This certainly moved the plot ahead by quite a lot, though im not sure it was using DS magic alone that created the Dragon king.

To start with we were told he was bathing in their blood, that might have been influencing thing, and Zeref might also have had a hand in the transformation.


My penny's worth:
Hold on, the end of that chapter gave me the impression thats what those two want you to think.

What if the Dragon King came to Fairy Tail Island in pursuit of Zeref?

I'm wondering if Zeref is actually the dragon and the dragon was the dragon slayer who ended up being forcibly body swapped alowing Zeref to become the legendary and infamous sorceror he's known to be whilst the Dragon King has been left with no means of returning to his normal form and the other dragons taught their Dragon Slayers and then disappeared to try and get this matter resolved without losing any more dragons...

My reasoning is that none of the other dragons realised what had happened and assumed the Dragon King was a result of Dragon Slaying Magic gone horribly awry, given how it was discussed it wouldn't take much since a certain other character is supposed to be an alternate form of Grandine in human form to assume they have tried this before... whose to say one of the dragons didn't do this to escape the resulting apocalypse of the dragon war?

Of course there's still the matter of why Zeref claimed to recognise Natsu which I think might be important but still did any of you who read this chapter got any other ideas about this?

[lord_khaine]

I'm wondering if Zeref is actually the dragon and the dragon was the dragon slayer who ended up being forcibly body swapped alowing Zeref to become the legendary and infamous sorceror he's known to be whilst the Dragon King has been left with no means of returning to his normal form and the other dragons taught their Dragon Slayers and then disappeared to try and get this matter resolved without losing any more dragons...


I think this is highly unlikely, seing as Acnologia's transformation was gradual.

[9mm]

My penny's worth:
Hold on, the end of that chapter gave me the impression thats what those two want you to think.

What if the Dragon King came to Fairy Tail Island in pursuit of Zeref?

I'm wondering if Zeref is actually the dragon and the dragon was the dragon slayer who ended up being forcibly body swapped alowing Zeref to become the legendary and infamous sorceror he's known to be whilst the Dragon King has been left with no means of returning to his normal form and the other dragons taught their Dragon Slayers and then disappeared to try and get this matter resolved without losing any more dragons...

My reasoning is that none of the other dragons realised what had happened and assumed the Dragon King was a result of Dragon Slaying Magic gone horribly awry, given how it was discussed it wouldn't take much since a certain other character is supposed to be an alternate form of Grandine in human form to assume they have tried this before... whose to say one of the dragons didn't do this to escape the resulting apocalypse of the dragon war?

Of course there's still the matter of why Zeref claimed to recognise Natsu which I think might be important but still did any of you who read this chapter got any other ideas about this?


Other things to consider: who said Acnologia is the only DS to become a dragon? Igneel, and metalicono all could have been human once. I'm positive Grandine was human once though.

[LaZodiac]

Dragons dragons dragons. So many dragons. I mean, I can't blame him, they're awesome, but it's clear the mangaka has a bit of a fetish toward them (hell, just look at his last work, Rave Master).

[DiscipleofBob]

Dragons dragons dragons. So many dragons. I mean, I can't blame him, they're awesome, but it's clear the mangaka has a bit of a fetish toward them (hell, just look at his last work, Rave Master).

Considering dragons are one of the main plot points of the entire FT setting, I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Kato]

Well, that was an interesting bit of information...

So... since crazy theories are apparently allowed again I'll just try a shot in the blue: Seven, er, fourteen years ago the King of Dragons was around trying to get rid of the last "real" dragons, including the fire, metal and air varieties. Guilt tripped Zeref somehow figured it out and warned them but forcing them to leave their adepts behind when they went... wherever. Another dimension, probably. And... something like that happened to the Holy and Shadow dragon as well? I don't really know.

Also, now we can switch from wondering "What is Acnologia's element" to "What kind of slayer used Acnologia to be". Not sure if better or worse...

Otherwise... I liked the Jade dragon. He was funny. A bit stupid but funny.
(And stupid dragons... trusting humans to help them in their war and not turning against them... hahahahahaha.

[DukeGod]

Dragons didn't had so much appearance in Rave Master. They were mostly the Let, Julia and the Dragon Tamer dude side-plot.

So, anyone else thinks that the White Knight lying when he says Zeref did all the actual transforming?
Maybe going too far into any kind of magic simply changes you into that? Iced Shell kills the user and turns him/her into ice, Dragon Slaying apparently can make you a Dragon and maybe some kind of Dark Magic turns into demons?

[lord_khaine]

Other things to consider: who said Acnologia is the only DS to become a dragon? Igneel, and metalicono all could have been human once. I'm positive Grandine was human once though.

The Jade Dragon made it sound like it was a rather unique event, i dont think there is anyone else that has transformed like him.

And furthermore, considering the bloodcrazed killingspree Arcnologia had to embark upon to transform himself, then i find it even more unlikely that any of the dragons we know of would have done the same.

[tyckspoon]

They actually outright said that the normal army was no match for a guild early in the manga, but we also know there are "rune knights" that are strong enough to deal with guilds, they are the ones who arrested Jellal and tried to interfere with Fairy Tail on Tenrou Island.

Eh.. we do have some indication that even the Rune Knights probably can't be expected to stand up to the more powerful guilds. If you remember the Magic Power Finder game after Erza destroyed the entire house-o'-monsters, Milliana's score of 365 was high enough to rank as a standard squad captain. And then Orga scored 10 times higher, Jura more than doubled *that*, and Cana's Fairy Glitter was past the Power Finder's ability to measure. In the face of that much power difference I suspect most Rune Knights wouldn't be of any more use than non-magical soldiers.

Re New Chapter: Trololol Dragon. Just in case you thought dragons were majestic and wise or something.

[lord_khaine]

Eh.. we do have some indication that even the Rune Knights probably can't be expected to stand up to the more powerful guilds. If you remember the Magic Power Finder game after Erza destroyed the entire house-o'-monsters, Milliana's score of 365 was high enough to rank as a standard squad captain. And then Orga scored 10 times higher, Jura more than doubled *that*, and Cana's Fairy Glitter was past the Power Finder's ability to measure. In the face of that much power difference I suspect most Rune Knights wouldn't be of any more use than non-magical soldiers.

I dont quite agree, while that test certainly is excellent proof of that a Rune knight would lose a 1 vs 1 fight against most members from the higher ranked guilds, then at the same time it only showns how hard a punch the guild wizards pack, and doesnt measure their actual skill in battle, or how well their defence would hold against 8-9 different opponents all blasting low level offensive magic towards them.

Just as an example, while Cana did scored the highest on the test, would you belive her to stand any chance whatsoever in a 1 vs 1 with Jura or Orga?

[tyckspoon]

I and doesnt measure their actual skill in battle, or how well their defence would hold against 8-9 different opponents all blasting low level offensive magic towards them.

Just as an example, while Cana did scored the highest on the test, would you belive her to stand any chance whatsoever in a 1 vs 1 with Jura or Orga?

With the exception of Cana, I suspect the MPF does show skill in battle reasonably well, although mostly as an associated/correlated talent: People who have kinds of magic that perform well on MPF (that is, primarily direct combat-related bursts) will also likely have been practicing how to apply said direct combat talents. As for wave tactics/concentrated fire from significantly weaker opponents.. I'm pretty sure mages on the level of Orga and certainly Jura can functionally just ignore it, either with a basic defensive spell or by being Just That Strong. It's a pretty common Shounen thing, and I don't recall anything happening that shows that it doesn't apply in Fairy Tail.

For the question of Cana specifically: She's a Fairy Tail S-class candidate. None of those are people you can safely underestimate. That said, my guess is that she'd need to be granted another shot of Fairy Glitter in order to beat Orga or Jura; without it, she may have the necessary magic power reserves, but the kinds of magic we've seen her do so far don't have the face-smashing power and applications to duel with the styles Orga and Jura use.

[Xondoure]

Eh.. we do have some indication that even the Rune Knights probably can't be expected to stand up to the more powerful guilds. If you remember the Magic Power Finder game after Erza destroyed the entire house-o'-monsters, Milliana's score of 365 was high enough to rank as a standard squad captain. And then Orga scored 10 times higher, Jura more than doubled *that*, and Cana's Fairy Glitter was past the Power Finder's ability to measure. In the face of that much power difference I suspect most Rune Knights wouldn't be of any more use than non-magical soldiers.

Re New Chapter: Trololol Dragon. Just in case you thought dragons were majestic and wise or something.

Standard captains are a far cry from the upper ranks. And against a wizard saint I wouldn't expect a standard captain to be sent out.

[INoKnowNames]

The only thing I know is that I'd hate to be a human living in Fairy Tail land. Might be a little better than living in a Marvel Comic or Metropolis, but still.

[Drolyt]

The only thing I know is that I'd hate to be a human living in Fairy Tail land. Might be a little better than living in a Marvel Comic or Metropolis, but still.
At least in Fiore they make Fairy Tail pay for all the property damage they cause. I don't recall anyone ever sending Superman a check.

[Silva Stormrage]

The only thing I know is that I'd hate to be a human living in Fairy Tail land. Might be a little better than living in a Marvel Comic or Metropolis, but still.

Really? It seems like it would be interesting at least. It seems like there are magic items like the glasses levy and lucy used to read quickly. I would assume you don't need to be a mage to do those.

[Hopeless]

Anime Filler
Its done and dusted the ending sequence that speaks about the next episode which is entitled "Sabertooth" and the last scene is of a certain pair of dragonslayers!

Can anyone get a screen grab or better yet a colour pic of the new pair?

Looks like they're ready to rumble!:smallbiggrin:

[Kato]

Filler is finally over, yeah... And it started okay enough but I felt it really fust went downhill up to today's finale...
But we will finally turn towards the tourney arc and that means... we will have Norio back in a few episodes! Even if it's just for an episode I always smile when I hear his awesome voice.

[INoKnowNames]

At least in Fiore they make Fairy Tail pay for all the property damage they cause. I don't recall anyone ever sending Superman a check.

True, but (admitedly speaking completely out of my ass) Superman doesn't intentionally provoke as much property damage. His fights do get that messy, but when Superman's out and about, you don't expect him to blow up your entire town, or lol-trip and sink your village. You expect those kinds of shenanigans from Fairy Tail.

... how the heck do they possibly afford to be able to pay for all of the property damage they commit?


Really? It seems like it would be interesting at least. It seems like there are magic items like the glasses levy and lucy used to read quickly. I would assume you don't need to be a mage to do those.

Really? I thought it was because they were mages that you could use them. Use Magic Device isn't a commoner skill, and most commoners don't get to be high enough level to afford the cross class ranks, after all.

[Kato]

Really? I thought it was because they were mages that you could use them. Use Magic Device isn't a commoner skill, and most commoners don't get to be high enough level to afford the cross class ranks, after all.

*thwack* Don't get your fancy D&D in my Fairy Tail. Iirc there was a duo of not-magic user thugs way at the beginning (and then again somewhere in a filler(?) who was able to use some magic items. So apparently, yeah, commoners can use magic items. Is it even ever stated whether being a mage is a gift granted at birth or requires potential or if anyone can just decide to become one?

[ThiagoMartell]

I only read the chapter now... wow. I mean... wow.
It just... it just makes sense.

[LaZodiac]

Say what you will about the writing (ie, that the mangaka really has no idea how to set up a threat, as Natsu's complete solo crushing of Sting and Rogue show), but sometimes, Fairy Tail REALLY does stuff that makes sense. Or is atleast really awesome.

I still remember the fun I had when they all held hands, started chanting "we believe in friendship!" and half way through the chant they get Apocolypse Dragon'ed. Good times.

[ThiagoMartell]

Mashima admits openly that he is basically flying by the seat of his pants, so whenever you see things tying together so well, you can't help but be impressed.
That's one of the things I like most about FT - Mashima is very honest with us readers.

[tyckspoon]

Is it even ever stated whether being a mage is a gift granted at birth or requires potential or if anyone can just decide to become one?

I doubt there's anything official on it, but so far it seems like a mix of both; my guess is that anyone can *learn* magic, but how well one can do with it is (at least to start with, since this is a shounen and being willing to train really hard can do amazing things for you) more a matter of native potential.

[LaZodiac]

Mashima admits openly that he is basically flying by the seat of his pants, so whenever you see things tying together so well, you can't help but be impressed.
That's one of the things I like most about FT - Mashima is very honest with us readers.

Today we're going to have an entire chapter about titties. Then we'll have a nice artistic chapter with no dialoge featuring Gildartz. I'm doing this solely so chapter 300 can have a special revelation in it.

Yha, I'll give him that much. He's nothing if not honest about his style.

[Drolyt]

... how the heck do they possibly afford to be able to pay for all of the property damage they commit?
The same way they did it on Cowboy Bebop. That damage is almost always caused while on a job, so as long as the job pays more than the damage bill they are fine. Besides that though, I imagine that the top wizard guild in the kingdom is pretty rich. Real world guilds in Europe could get very rich and powerful, and I imagine wizards' guilds even moreso.

[Kato]

Well, chapter has been up for a while now but for the sake of completion...


Interesting stuff happening... I almost feel like trusting Mr White Knight there.
But the Minister is right, one does not simply travel to the past and mess with it.

Though, good chance everyone who supposedly dies at the end just make a quick hop through time.

[LaZodiac]

I'm just really excited for Acnologia showing up again. Acnologia spits in the face of friendship power, and his spit is apocolypse breath. The way he just completely interrupted their friendship speech last arc basically made me love him as a villian.

[lord_khaine]

It was actualy a quite interesting chapter, and while the minister is apperently one of the only sensible people around, then i still suspect his effords will be in vain, and the machine activated, so that next chapter is going to send the main cast back to the past.

[LaZodiac]

It was actualy a quite interesting chapter, and while the minister is apperently one of the only sensible people around, then i still suspect his effords will be in vain, and the machine activated, so that next chapter is going to send the main cast back to the past.

We're going to get into one big time loop aren't we, where it turns out like..Natsu and pals ARE their dragons, but they just forgot when they went into human form for some reason.

I also actually really hope we find out some more about Godslayer magic, if only because I liked the Firegod Slayer (even if he did get COMPLETELY punked by Natsu in a really stupid fight).

[Kato]

It was actualy a quite interesting chapter, and while the minister is apperently one of the only sensible people around, then i still suspect his effords will be in vain, and the machine activated, so that next chapter is going to send the main cast back to the past.
Wow, slow down. Next chapter? The finale is like... three days off(?) Give the Manga some time, pal :smallwink:


We're going to get into one big time loop aren't we, where it turns out like..Natsu and pals ARE their dragons, but they just forgot when they went into human form for some reason.

I really don't like the dragons are humans" theories... While Acnologia kind of supports it, Jade made a big deal out of it so I don't think we will have some great reveal about any dragon being their slayer... Or at least I hope not.

[Xondoure]

I think we already have proof they went back in time because Zeref recognized Natsu. And that's going to be the time loop.

[LaZodiac]

I think we already have proof they went back in time because Zeref recognized Natsu. And that's going to be the time loop.

Of course this also fits my theory that their dragon teachers are infact their "true forms" and that Zeref/Acnologia turned them into humans somehow.

I'm not going to commit to any theory though. I gave up trying to predict what would happen when I kept on saying "that kamaitachi guy from the Erza introduction arc is going to show up again" and he never did.

[Spacewolf]

But he also said Natsu had really grown which wouldn't make sense in that case.

If the slayers are their dragons the fire and sky dragons conversation would be abit strange what with the sky talking about how she hoped Wendy and Natsu would get along. Unless Gran was just trying to annoy him

[Xondoure]

But he also said Natsu had really grown which wouldn't make sense in that case.

If the slayers are their dragons the fire and sky dragons conversation would be abit strange what with the sky talking about how she hoped Wendy and Natsu would get along. Unless Gran was just trying to annoy him

True enough. Now I'm leaning towards just giving up on speculation and coming along for the ride.

[LaZodiac]

But he also said Natsu had really grown which wouldn't make sense in that case.

If the slayers are their dragons the fire and sky dragons conversation would be abit strange what with the sky talking about how she hoped Wendy and Natsu would get along. Unless Gran was just trying to annoy him

After what we've seen of the Jade Dragon? I would NOT put it past the dragons to troll each other that way. I really wouldn't.

[INoKnowNames]

Dang, I got ninja'ed on the newest chapter...

But why are the arresting Lucy, too?

And with 2 strong darkish guilds moving around in the dark, it seems like the tournament is about to be interrupted one and for all...

[LaZodiac]

It's a Tournament Arc. By law it has to be interrupted before it finishes.

[INoKnowNames]

It's a Tournament Arc. By law it has to be interrupted before it finishes.

DBZ only had 1 tournament arc that went unfinished... and only because Goku decided to train Uub.

Well, I guess 2, if you don't count 18 winning the tournament with the Saiyans chasing after Buu, but still.

[LaZodiac]

DBZ only had 1 tournament arc that went unfinished... and only because Goku decided to train Uub.

Well, I guess 2, if you don't count 18 winning the tournament with the Saiyans chasing after Buu, but still.

The only tournament arc that wasn't interrupted where the ones that were held before it became a cliche. I honestly think it doesn't count if DB did it.

[INoKnowNames]

The only tournament arc that wasn't interrupted where the ones that were held before it became a cliche. I honestly think it doesn't count if DB did it.

At what point did it get cliche? ... honestly, I've lost my grasp on what that word means.

[LaZodiac]

At what point did it get cliche? ... honestly, I've lost my grasp on what that word means.

Basically, by the time Dragonball Z had ITS tournament interrupt in the Buu Saga, is when it started being cliche. I think.

[INoKnowNames]

Basically, by the time Dragonball Z had ITS tournament interrupt in the Buu Saga, is when it started being cliche. I think.

What about when Hercule interrupted the Cell Games? :smallwink:

Even -Krillin- wanted Hercule to lose. :smallbiggrin:

Getting a bit back more ontopic, why is Fairy Tail seeming like such a better shonen series than most of it's current competition? One Piece I haven't gotten into the way I should (what with the primary dubbing when it came out bastardised as ****), but it beats the heck out of Bleach, and competes pretty well with Naruto, maybe even exceeds it due to lack of random bull **** haxing going on (at least as badly, if so).

Natsu is my favorie Goku reincarnation, basically.

[LaZodiac]

That wasn't so much an interruption as a half time show. Although, I'm going to be honest, as much as we joke and laugh at Mr Satan and how utterly ridiculous he is, when it gets to that final moment, he's the one responsible for saving the world. Hell, if it weren't for the fact that certain people are EXCESSIVELY stupid, Hercule would of saved the day before Kid Buu even got a chance to show up. He's that amazing.

Speaking of which, I feel like Fairy Tail is trying to make a Hercule or Yajirobi style character with that...whats his face, the really gonkish Blue Pegasus member.

Also, in answer to your question...no. Fairy Tail, in regards to shounen, is actually one of the worst. I'd actually put it under Katekiyo Hitman Reborn of all things (it's had a really good few months).

[INoKnowNames]

That wasn't so much an interruption as a half time show.

Tha main event hadn't even started yet, though...


Although, I'm going to be honest, as much as we joke and laugh at Mr Satan and how utterly ridiculous he is, when it gets to that final moment, he's the one responsible for saving the world. Hell, if it weren't for the fact that certain people are EXCESSIVELY stupid, Hercule would of saved the day before Kid Buu even got a chance to show up. He's that amazing.

Actually, if it wasn't for him, Gotenks would have just had to fight Fat Buu, and he'd have just had to stall long enough for Ultimate Gohan to get the job done. So technically, Hercule made things -worse-. Though he does end up helping give Buu a new chance at life, so I suppose the genocide of the human race and the destruction of several planets and almost the afterlife is fine.


Speaking of which, I feel like Fairy Tail is trying to make a Hercule or Yajirobi style character with that...whats his face, the really gonkish Blue Pegasus member.

Better than being a member of Yamcha's guild Quatro Puppy.


Also, in answer to your question...no. Fairy Tail, in regards to shounen, is actually one of the worst. I'd actually put it under Katekiyo Hitman Reborn of all things (it's had a really good few months).

Huh. Maybe I just don't know my shonen. But what's wrong with Fairy Tail?

[LaZodiac]

Actually, if it wasn't for him, Gotenks would have just had to fight Fat Buu, and he'd have just had to stall long enough for Ultimate Gohan to get the job done. So technically, Hercule made things -worse-. Though he does end up helping give Buu a new chance at life, so I suppose the genocide of the human race and the destruction of several planets and almost the afterlife is fine.

Better than being a member of Yamcha's guild Quatro Puppy.

Huh. Maybe I just don't know my shonen. But what's wrong with Fairy Tail?

Ah, but you see, if it weren't for some random dudes with bazooka's, Gotenks wouldn't of even been needed. Hercule managed to convince Fat Buu that killing was wrong, and with the help of that puppy they found, they showed Buu what love and happiness is all about. Then Hercule nearly dies, and the puppy gets killed, because of some hillbillies and their bazooka, trying to kill the big ole "evil pink monster". This leads to Evil Buu being expelled from Fat Buu.

Elfman really should of done something a LOT more devestation to Bacchus then that. That fight also should of been MUCH longer and better then it was. Elfman is my favorite character.

The problem with Natsu is that he's generic and overpowered. He's only really lost once, and that was againest Gildartz, and he lost so hard he didn't even GET to fight. That was Natsu's best scene. He see's Gildartz is his challange, he rushes headlong into him twice, and gets beat back twice, and then collapses and accepts his defeat.

After that we have Natsu somehoe just eating God Slayer flames, somehow becoming stronger then he should be. And lets not even get into the Sting and Rogue fight, where he single handidly warfed people who appeared to be the MAIN VILLIANS OF THE ARC. Basically, Natsu is everything wrong with the "super powered main character" archtype. He started off good, had some fantastic development with Gildartz, but then it was all thrown away.

[Xondoure]

Ah, but you see, if it weren't for some random dudes with bazooka's, Gotenks wouldn't of even been needed. Hercule managed to convince Fat Buu that killing was wrong, and with the help of that puppy they found, they showed Buu what love and happiness is all about. Then Hercule nearly dies, and the puppy gets killed, because of some hillbillies and their bazooka, trying to kill the big ole "evil pink monster". This leads to Evil Buu being expelled from Fat Buu.

Elfman really should of done something a LOT more devestation to Bacchus then that. That fight also should of been MUCH longer and better then it was. Elfman is my favorite character.

The problem with Natsu is that he's generic and overpowered. He's only really lost once, and that was againest Gildartz, and he lost so hard he didn't even GET to fight. That was Natsu's best scene. He see's Gildartz is his challange, he rushes headlong into him twice, and gets beat back twice, and then collapses and accepts his defeat.

After that we have Natsu somehoe just eating God Slayer flames, somehow becoming stronger then he should be. And lets not even get into the Sting and Rogue fight, where he single handidly warfed people who appeared to be the MAIN VILLIANS OF THE ARC. Basically, Natsu is everything wrong with the "super powered main character" archtype. He started off good, had some fantastic development with Gildartz, but then it was all thrown away.

Maybe it's because I don't think "I can eat fire, that's my power" should be countered with "but you can't eat this fire!" but I had no problem with Natsu kicking the godslayer's butt. Seriously, the fact that Natsu eventually figured out how to eat the black flames is the only reason I'm okay with godslayers being a thing.

And Natsu is a character that spikes high but is ultimately unreliable, and I like that about Fairy Tail. He's allowed to be the shonen hero while still not being as valuable a member of the guild as Erza or Gildartz.

[Forum Explorer]

The problem with Natsu is that he's generic and overpowered. He's only really lost once, and that was againest Gildartz, and he lost so hard he didn't even GET to fight. That was Natsu's best scene. He see's Gildartz is his challange, he rushes headlong into him twice, and gets beat back twice, and then collapses and accepts his defeat.

After that we have Natsu somehoe just eating God Slayer flames, somehow becoming stronger then he should be. And lets not even get into the Sting and Rogue fight, where he single handidly warfed people who appeared to be the MAIN VILLIANS OF THE ARC. Basically, Natsu is everything wrong with the "super powered main character" archtype. He started off good, had some fantastic development with Gildartz, but then it was all thrown away.

Honestly Ichigo from Bleach doesn't seem to be any better considering the bull he pulls right now in the Dub. Really Ichigo gets worse everytime I see him.

Eating God Slayer flames is alright in my opinion as the uneatable flames was just silly. Having Natsu struggle to eat those at all was a bad decision in my book.

Against Sting and Rouge yeah you have a good point. That was mishandled in the worst possible manner.

[lord_khaine]

After that we have Natsu somehoe just eating God Slayer flames, somehow becoming stronger then he should be. And lets not even get into the Sting and Rogue fight, where he single handidly warfed people who appeared to be the MAIN VILLIANS OF THE ARC. Basically, Natsu is everything wrong with the "super powered main character" archtype. He started off good, had some fantastic development with Gildartz, but then it was all thrown away.

I dont have a problem with the godslayer fight because if it had not been for Makarov Natsu would newer have gotten the time needet to finish off his meal, and instead be burned to ash.

I do agree on though that the Dragonslayer fight was awfull, and it came close to ruining the entire arc for me.

[Kato]

I won't disagree that Hiro really should balance out Natsu's power level better but I still enjoy FT much more than Naruto. Baruto just... it tries to be serious and deep at times and it fails just utterly at it. FT doesn't try and thus it doesn't fail.
Comparing it to OP is harder but... I think I like it a little better just because I feel OP is dragging its feet a bit at times. Some arcs can feel like they take forever if you have to read one chapter a week where FT makes me excited with just one chapter per week.

[LaZodiac]

One Piece can drag a bit, yha, but god damn can it be funny. And the payoff is always worth it, atleast for me. Fairy Tail is much less exciting when it reaches ITS climaxs.

This probably has a lot to do with how much Hiro loves the Worf Effect. Look at Luxus, defeating an ENTIRE GUILD by himself. A guild that we were SUPPOSED to take as one of the main villians of the arc. They got punked out like CRAZY. Same with Natsu and Gajeel vs Sting and Rogue. They're the dragonslayers of LIGHT AND SHADOW, they're able to go DRAGONFORCE AT WILL. Natsu ruined them solo.

Also, I haven't been mentioning it because I didn't want to get into it, but as much as I want to like Erza, I HATE Erza, because that little fake funeral we see in the Tower arc is honestly kind of disgusting. "MY FRIENDS AREN'T ALLOWED TO CRY AT MY DEATH!" is a stupid, STUPID plotpoint.

[ThiagoMartell]

Also, in answer to your question...no. Fairy Tail, in regards to shounen, is actually one of the worst. I'd actually put it under Katekiyo Hitman Reborn of all things (it's had a really good few months).

Dude, Reborn takes 80 chapters to start. I mean. Wth.

[Hopeless]

Dang, I got ninja'ed on the newest chapter...

But why are the arresting Lucy, too?

And with 2 strong darkish guilds moving around in the dark, it seems like the tournament is about to be interrupted one and for all...

Lucy I believe has 11 of the keys and they need a Celestial Wizard with 12 keys to activate that door.

The fact that she declined to receive that last key should hold her in good stead but that uh person evidently doesn't understand he's throwing a large amount of accerlerant onto a wood pile to antagonize Natsu and we all know what Natsu is good at don't we?:smallbiggrin:

My first reaction to that knight is to think he's the bad guy, that by doing this he's actually creating either Zeref or that evil dragon creature...

Now I'm wondering if the guy who arrested them has his own plans and all of this was just to give him the means of securing Lucy for whatever he has planned...

How many Celestial Wizards are left now?

Especially those with how many keys?

I be more worried about how much energy is needed to activate that door now that Natsu passed out when he did!

Regarding Natsu versus Sting & Rogue i was wondering if he retained any of the power he got frome eating the godslaying flames?

That would explain how he beat the pair of them and why he sent Gajeel away since I don't think he had that opportunity?

[LaZodiac]

Dude, Reborn takes 80 chapters to start. I mean. Wth.

I'll be honest, the early pure comedy Reborn was pretty funny. The shonen Reborn is pretty good, but it quickly and, quite hard, falls into a pretty bad place (Byakuren). However, recently, Tsunayoshi has been showing that he's actually grown. He's become smarter then he used to be. Like, the fight that we're having right now, it's only gone as succesfully as it has because Tsunayoshi, and no one else, came up with the plan. And that's kind of amazing. And lets not forget that one final call back to the comedy chapters that just happened, with the Final Dying Will Bullet.

Say what you will about the start and the middle of Reborn, but (assuming this is the final arc) it's going out on a good note. Better then you can say for Bleach and possibly Naruto.


Lucy I believe has 11 of the keys and they need a Celestial Wizard with 12 keys to activate that door.

The fact that she declined to receive that last key should hold her in good stead but that uh person evidently doesn't understand he's throwing a large amount of accerlerant onto a wood pile to antagonize Natsu and we all know what Natsu is good at don't we?:smallbiggrin:

My first reaction to that knight is to think he's the bad guy, that by doing this he's actually creating either Zeref or that evil dragon creature...

Now I'm wondering if the guy who arrested them has his own plans and all of this was just to give him the means of securing Lucy for whatever he has planned...

How many Celestial Wizards are left now?

Especially those with how many keys?

I be more worried about how much energy is needed to activate that door now that Natsu passed out when he did!

Regarding Natsu versus Sting & Rogue i was wondering if he retained any of the power he got frome eating the godslaying flames?

That would explain how he beat the pair of them and why he sent Gajeel away since I don't think he had that opportunity?

The girl with the White Knight is, I believe, the girl with the last celestial key Lucy needs to get a full set.

And concerning how Natsu beat Sting and Rogue, he beat them "because of that special training" they did before the arc. The special magical training that just explodes their magical power completely.

[lord_khaine]

This probably has a lot to do with how much Hiro loves the Worf Effect. Look at Luxus, defeating an ENTIRE GUILD by himself. A guild that we were SUPPOSED to take as one of the main villians of the arc. They got punked out like CRAZY. Same with Natsu and Gajeel vs Sting and Rogue. They're the dragonslayers of LIGHT AND SHADOW, they're able to go DRAGONFORCE AT WILL. Natsu ruined them solo.


Yeah, though i actualy dont think the Laxus part was quite as bad, mostly because he isnt part of the main cast, and allways have been brutaly powerfull, even being strong enough to give Hades a bit of challenge.


The girl with the White Knight is, I believe, the girl with the last celestial key Lucy needs to get a full set.

And concerning how Natsu beat Sting and Rogue, he beat them "because of that special training" they did before the arc. The special magical training that just explodes their magical power completely.

Unfortunately its even worse than that, since if that had been the case he should also have done better earlier.
No, he won because he wanted to win more, and the power of friendship. :smallmad:

[Xondoure]

Unfortunately its even worse than that, since if that had been the case he should also have done better earlier.
No, he won because he wanted to win more, and the power of friendship. :smallmad:

That's not completely true. The implication is that Natsu had been holding back the whole time to analyze the strength of his opponents. He only fought them seriously at the end. This is all n top of wanting to win more through the power of friendship, because the dragon slayer magic feeds on emotion as much as flame.

[lord_khaine]

Im not talking about that fight, im talking about everything that went down beforehand, where in each cases Natsu pegget in as being around his usual level of power.

I also find the thing about Natsu wanting to win more though the power of friendship to be rubbish from the authors side, considering that we saw Sting & Rogue had a very clear and strong motivation to win as well.

[LaZodiac]

I actually took that completely the oppisite. It was STING AND ROGUE who had Friendship Power. Natsu had strait up full on super beat stick powers, and this world has shown, with the ressurection of Acnologia, that friendship power no longer solves all problems. Being overpowered does.

Either that, or the relathionship between Sting and Lecthor ISN'T FRIENDSHIP, when it clearly is.

[Xondoure]

I actually took that completely the oppisite. It was STING AND ROGUE who had Friendship Power. Natsu had strait up full on super beat stick powers, and this world has shown, with the ressurection of Acnologia, that friendship power no longer solves all problems. Being overpowered does.

Either that, or the relathionship between Sting and Lecthor ISN'T FRIENDSHIP, when it clearly is.

They had friendship power, but they didn't know how to use it. The message being a guild like saber tooth that only cares about results does not foster the strength that a guild like fairy tail which supports its family does. Natsu was fighting for Lucy in a way that Sting couldn't really match.

[Socratov]

They had friendship power, but they didn't know how to use it. The message being a guild like saber tooth that only cares about results does not foster the strength that a guild like fairy tail which supports its family does. Natsu was fighting for Lucy in a way that Sting couldn't really match.

this. On the other hand, Sting and rogue were 2 overhyped little b*tches. One could argue that by leaving for 7 years FT's main cast has left a powervacuüm. If they are gone long enough the bar for great power may have been lowered. Besides, Sting and rogue weren't using the power of friendship, they were using the curse of arrogance. They were fighting like they 'only' needed to push Natsu and Gajeel in the dirt so they could prove they were superior, while Natsu and Gajeel actually had a bone to pick with ST. For instance about harrassing Lucy, and the other Celestial wizard they exiled from their guild. Besides, with the way DS magic powerrating works, despair is a limiter, determination and vengeance are accellerators.

On the power scale of natsu, he is an idiot. Charges in head first (literally sometimes) and never stops to think on strategy. He might just be (barring fairy law and glitter, but that would be cheating slightly), after guildarts, the strongest person in the guild. His only problem is beïng a constant. When in a super emotional state he is nigh unbeatable, normally he is quite harmless.

Also, an explanation of his fight with the god slayer: Natsu eats flames. Flames are his energy. By consuming flames he recovers his energy bite for bite. I see his problem iwth godslayer flames is having to eat too much energy: for instande say you are eating a watermelon: if you eat it bite for bite nothing is wrong (normal, or indeed magical flames), but when you try and wolf down the whole watermelon at once you're gonna have a problem (god slayer flames). So natsu only needed to learn how to ingest and 'chew' the watermelon whole so he could take in the god slayer's flames. Now imagine the god slayer flames are not only watermelon, but with a nice cup of coffee. The watermelon and the water in the coffee si perfectly fine, you can take that. But the cafeïne is something different. Sure you can take some, it might even help you, but with enough cafeïne (especially if you are not used to the matter) you'll soon start reacting in a bad way to the stuff, hence explaining the problem with foreign fire substitutes and why he can still take them, if only in a small measure. I think Fairy Tail is one fo the better manga's out there. Though beaten by Shaman King (and it's derivatives) and hellsing, but they are pretty much the top for me.

[Kato]

If they are gone long enough the bar for great power may have been lowered.


Cutting short most of the long post... No. It's been made quite a point out of the fact that the power levels have risen. Natsu pre-upgrade has problems fighting Max. Sting and Rouge are considered to be levels above that.

I'm rather not trying to come up with explanations for... mostly anything in FT... at least regarding power levels, especially Natsu's... But that's just my take.

[INoKnowNames]

Honestly, I feel like we shouldn't be upset at Fairy Tale stomping the guilds right now. I feel like the guilds aren't the main issue, and that this is all filler.

I think... the real battle is coming soon. This is just to entertain until that point... while everything for the stage is being set in the shadows...

[LaZodiac]

Honestly, I feel like we shouldn't be upset at Fairy Tale stomping the guilds right now. I feel like the guilds aren't the main issue, and that this is all filler.

I think... the real battle is coming soon. This is just to entertain until that point... while everything for the stage is being set in the shadows...

True, this is probably the case, but filler should still actually BE exciting. The build up of the enemy guilds, and those in said guilds, did not pay off.

Raven Tail? Completely destroyed by Laxus in an anticlimax.

Sting and Rogue? Ruined completely by Natsu in an anticlimax.

The Sabertooth Guild Leader? Seemingly KILLED by Sting, thus getting rid of a possible Guild Leader fight, which could of been awesome.

The only pay off that I really liked was whats her face beating the ever loving crap out of Lucy, and the man fight vs Bacchus and Elfman. Though with that last one it wasn't as good as it should of been.

Seriously. He basically says, strait out, that after he beats you he's going to forcibly sex up your sister and her best friend. Taking his bet and having your side be "you have to have a silly nickname is...really not suitable.

Oh, right, also those two chapters before chapter 300. Those were good filler chapters (even if the first one was really really really shallow).

[Socratov]

True, this is probably the case, but filler should still actually BE exciting. The build up of the enemy guilds, and those in said guilds, did not pay off.

Raven Tail? Completely destroyed by Laxus in an anticlimax. and justified. old emotional issues->rising emotions->strength->can of whoop ass

Besides
Raven tail was supposed to be the antithesis of FT, that is, that's what they aimed for, But in the end they turned out to be weak, especially after the training from hell FTB seems to have had.


Sting and Rogue? Ruined completely by Natsu in an anticlimax.with all the animosity between Natsu and ST, see above, besides, Natsu has a powerlevel over 9000, especially since he got his reserves doubled and migrated into not only fire, but lightning as well... that scanner is right you know...


The Sabertooth Guild Leader? Seemingly KILLED by Sting, thus getting rid of a possible Guild Leader fight, which could of been awesome. again, ayup, you guessed it, emotions+DS magic=win (it's becoming a pattern isn't it? Almost sees like Naruto's Sharingan hax)


The only pay off that I really liked was whats her face beating the ever loving crap out of Lucy, and the man fight vs Bacchus and Elfman. Though with that last one it wasn't as good as it should of been.

Lucy getting beaten didn't do it for me. Oh lucy needs to lose... But she has the best chances with having the key to aquarius and all. No worries, Aquarius will go into bitchmode leaving Lucy powerless.

elfman was awesome all right. he fought like a Real Man(tm)


Seriously. He basically says, strait out, that after he beats you he's going to forcibly sex up your sister and her best friend. Taking his bet and having your side be "you have to have a silly nickname is...really not suitable.
I think you misunderstood: It was about taking the manliness away from his enemy, turning him into his bitch. That's worse then sisters. Waaayyy worse. Besides Elfman knows MJ can handle herself :smallamused:

Oh, right, also those two chapters before chapter 300. Those were good filler chapters (even if the first one was really really really shallow).

Oh hell yeah. First fanservice heaven (more or less), then a well written chapter without dialogue, I mean that's hard to do man, expressing without dialog.

[lord_khaine]

They had friendship power, but they didn't know how to use it. The message being a guild like saber tooth that only cares about results does not foster the strength that a guild like fairy tail which supports its family does. Natsu was fighting for Lucy in a way that Sting couldn't really match.

But thats the whole issue, Sting was actualy fighting for what was proberly his oldest and best friend, Natsu was just fighting for his desire for vengeance, by all that we have seen so far in the serie Sting should have won that fight.


this. On the other hand, Sting and rogue were 2 overhyped little b*tches. One could argue that by leaving for 7 years FT's main cast has left a powervacuüm. If they are gone long enough the bar for great power may have been lowered. Besides, Sting and rogue weren't using the power of friendship, they were using the curse of arrogance. They were fighting like they 'only' needed to push Natsu and Gajeel in the dirt so they could prove they were superior, while Natsu and Gajeel actually had a bone to pick with ST. For instance about harrassing Lucy, and the other Celestial wizard they exiled from their guild. Besides, with the way DS magic powerrating works, despair is a limiter, determination and vengeance are accellerators.

Yeah, well if the author had been able to manage a consistent system of power then they would also be deserving of the hype, what with being able to enter DF at will and all :smallmad:

And Sting certainly had the greater claim for the power of friendship, seing as he was not fighting for himself, but for what was proberly his oldest and closest friend.
Natsu meanwhile cant really claim anything but a desire for revenge thats quite misguidet, seing as neither Rogue nor Sting has ever laid a hand upon another member of FT (besides Gajeel).


with all the animosity between Natsu and ST, see above, besides, Natsu has a powerlevel over 9000, especially since he got his reserves doubled and migrated into not only fire, but lightning as well... that scanner is right you know...

Yes, see the mentioning of ruining above, now that Natsu has shown he is able to take both of them down at once without going serious, then its allmost impossible to take what could have been some great recurring antagonists seriously.


again, ayup, you guessed it, emotions+DS magic=win (it's becoming a pattern isn't it? Almost sees like Naruto's Sharingan hax)

And thats another problem with the abuse of the emotionally boost DS magic can pull out, as before the timeskip it was only providing a minor boost.

The Natsu i grew to love won though determination and from friends assisting him, this new post-timeskip DBZ rubbish is something you can keep, i dont want any of it.


Lucy getting beaten didn't do it for me. Oh lucy needs to lose... But she has the best chances with having the key to aquarius and all. No worries, Aquarius will go into bitchmode leaving Lucy powerless.

elfman was awesome all right. he fought like a Real Man(tm)

Tbh, the only thing i found stupid in the Lucy fight was the way she lost, Celestrial magic has generally turned out quite useless in my eyes, but when the summons cant even be bothered to assist her it becomes close to worthless.
The Elfman fight however was awesome, proberly the best fight in the arc.

[INoKnowNames]

I think you misunderstood: It was about taking the manliness away from his enemy, turning him into his bitch. That's worse then sisters. Waaayyy worse. Besides Elfman knows MJ can handle herself :smallamused:

I personally completely agree with La's point on this one; you can talk about my manliness all you want, and I might be civil enough when there are witnessess to get yours stripped from you. But threatening essentially rape onto the two girls I care most about?

Elfman should have taken down the entire Yamcha Guild himself...

[Xondoure]

@lord_khaine: The entire Sabertooth guild stood there laughing while Lucy was being tortured. Natsu's rage was on another level entirely from Sting's motivation of "I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was" even if it was for his friend.

[INoKnowNames]

@lord_khaine: The entire Sabertooth guild stood there laughing while Lucy was being tortured. Natsu's rage was on another level entirely from Sting's motivation of "I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was" even if it was for his friend.

He didn't look or act at all like he was channeling that rage, though. Heck, even when he defeated Gajeel with his Ultimate Summoning Technique: Minecart Madness*, he had his standard attitude of overconfident silly smileness.

Had Natsu been looking like he did before, ready to be out for blood and with no one to get in his way, -all- of his actions would have been justified. Not a single person would have complained about him curbstomping both of them if he had acted -that- pissed off. I'd bet on that.

[Socratov]

He didn't look or act at all like he was channeling that rage, though. Heck, even when he defeated Gajeel with his Ultimate Summoning Technique: Minecart Madness*, he had his standard attitude of overconfident silly smileness.

Had Natsu been looking like he did before, ready to be out for blood and with no one to get in his way, -all- of his actions would have been justified. Not a single person would have complained about him curbstomping both of them if he had acted -that- pissed off. I'd bet on that.

Have you ever been pissed off enough to not explode or go nuclear anymore but instead freeze solid? Inthink usui horokeu has shown it in a perfect way in shaman king (cant remember where). At some time you just go beyond and get back through the other end... Maybe Natsu had that. Either that or he learned to channel way better.

[INoKnowNames]

Have you ever been pissed off enough to not explode or go nuclear anymore but instead freeze solid? Inthink usui horokeu has shown it in a perfect way in shaman king (cant remember where). At some time you just go beyond and get back through the other end... Maybe Natsu had that. Either that or he learned to channel way better.

The thing is, in the fight, he wasn't looking like that, either. He was doing silly natsu half the time. Not really Super Serious, or Super Pissed, but Silly.

Does this at -all- look like he's taking them seriously?

http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/246/26-295.0/compressed/ofairy-tail-3529961.jpg

[Xondoure]

The thing is, in the fight, he wasn't looking like that, either. He was doing silly natsu half the time. Not really Super Serious, or Super Pissed, but Silly.

Does this at -all- look like he's taking them seriously?

http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/246/26-295.0/compressed/ofairy-tail-3529961.jpg

All I see is awesome Natsu. :smallconfused::smalltongue:

[INoKnowNames]

All I see is awesome Natsu. :smallconfused::smalltongue:

Yes, but awesome Natsu should have looked more like Murder Natsu.

http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/246/26-292.0/compressed/n024.jpg

[Drolyt]

Natsu's anger wasn't really centered on Sting and Rogue though. For that fight he just wanted to prove that Fairy Tail's way was better than Sabertooth's, and for that his showing off made sense.

[LaZodiac]

By every rule of drama and writing that I know, the "villians" should of won that fight. This was basically the first time we ever saw Sting and Rogue do any fighting. They were built up. They killed DRAGONS man. And then Natsu just mops the floor with them, after both he and Gajeel take on their DRAGONFORCE mode attacks without breaking a sweat.

The least they could of done is have Natsu and Gajeel atleast look hurt, and have Natsu collapse after using so much energy to beat the two of them. Make it atleast look like he had to exert effort to beat them.

[Forum Explorer]

Like I said before it's not so much that Natsu winning was bad but the entire fight was horribly handled. As a result any potential interest in Sabertooth and by extension the entire tournament was destroyed. Sure that arc was wrapping up but there was no need to completely kill any suspense or interest that it had.

[ThiagoMartell]

By every rule of drama and writing that I know, the "villians" should of won that fight. This was basically the first time we ever saw Sting and Rogue do any fighting. They were built up. They killed DRAGONS man. And then Natsu just mops the floor with them, after both he and Gajeel take on their DRAGONFORCE mode attacks without breaking a sweat.

The least they could of done is have Natsu and Gajeel atleast look hurt, and have Natsu collapse after using so much energy to beat the two of them. Make it atleast look like he had to exert effort to beat them.

Yes, it does kill all of the build up. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. It established that Sabertooth is not the main opposition and that the festival was just a small part of a bigger plot (and that was foreshadowed heavily beforehand). I'm surprised you haven't picked up on this, LaZodiac, since you tend to be so genre savvy - tournaments on shounen manga are rarely played straight, to the point that the tournament being interrupted by X is pretty much a trope on it's own. Sabertooth and Raven Tail were decoy antagonists, that has been clear for quite a while now. Did Mashima spend too much time building them up? Maybe, but we don't know if they will play a part on the actual arc.

For all we know, they might befriend FT and then die, being the people mentioned in the letter Levy sends Lucy. In fact, I'd bet money on that, even - I'm pretty sure all dead people mentioned are not from the guild (or just joined the guild for the purposes of being killed off). He used the festival to create some new characters, give them some spotlight, get them some fans, so as to be able to kill them off and have an emotional response. Sacrificial lambs, if you will.

[lord_khaine]

Natsu's anger wasn't really centered on Sting and Rogue though. For that fight he just wanted to prove that Fairy Tail's way was better than Sabertooth's, and for that his showing off made sense.

And this then show that Natsu's desire to show off defeats 2 3rd generation DS who are fighting a bigger cause than personal gain.


Yes, it does kill all of the build up. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. It established that Sabertooth is not the main opposition and that the festival was just a small part of a bigger plot (and that was foreshadowed heavily beforehand). I'm surprised you haven't picked up on this, LaZodiac, since you tend to be so genre savvy - tournaments on shounen manga are rarely played straight, to the point that the tournament being interrupted by X is pretty much a trope on it's own. Sabertooth and Raven Tail were decoy antagonists, that has been clear for quite a while now. Did Mashima spend too much time building them up? Maybe, but we don't know if they will play a part on the actual arc.

And there is still no reason whatsoever for doing this, it destroyes a lot of atmosphere and buildup, and thats all it does, there isnt anything else addet in its stead.
That there was something building up in the bagground was forshadowed pretty heavily, so to start with there wasnt any reason at all for destroying ST as a credible threat, and at the same time it then also managet to completely ruin the buildup that had happend since the start of the timeskip, with the magical world having moved on and evolved to a degree where other guilds would actualy be able to pose a challenge towards FT.

But now its hard to take anything at all seriously, since Natsu and Gajeel has now displayed a level of power that would allow FT to take on all the other guilds in the tournament and win.


For all we know, they might befriend FT and then die, being the people mentioned in the letter Levy sends Lucy. In fact, I'd bet money on that, even - I'm pretty sure all dead people mentioned are not from the guild (or just joined the guild for the purposes of being killed off). He used the festival to create some new characters, give them some spotlight, get them some fans, so as to be able to kill them off and have an emotional response. Sacrificial lambs, if you will.

And again, this has nothing to do with, and could easily be done without, worfing the entire magical world into oblivion.

[ThiagoMartell]

And there is still no reason whatsoever for doing this, it destroyes a lot of atmosphere and buildup, and thats all it does, there isnt anything else addet in its stead.
Of course there is. It makes perfectly clear that these guys are not the main villain.

That there was something building up in the bagground was forshadowed pretty heavily, so to start with there wasnt any reason at all for destroying ST as a credible threat, and at the same time it then also managet to completely ruin the buildup that had happend since the start of the timeskip, with the magical world having moved on and evolved to a degree where other guilds would actualy be able to pose a challenge towards FT.
You see, your reasoning is the entire reason behind doing this. You thought the magical world having moved on or Sabertooth being around was plot critical. Turns out it isn't. Showing so blatantly that Sabertooth is not a critical threat is the only way to make sure they are not at all important, just a bunch of overhyped dudes. Does it ruin the build up? Yes, of course it does, that's the whole point of a decoy antagonist.


But now its hard to take anything at all seriously, since Natsu and Gajeel has now displayed a level of power that would allow FT to take on all the other guilds in the tournament and win.
And that does not matter, since the tournament is not important at all.


And again, this has nothing to do with, and could easily be done without, worfing the entire magical world into oblivion.
That is simply not what happened here. Natsu was able to defeat Rogue and Sting. People have been saying they are the bee's knees. The obvious conclusion is that they are, well, not. You're jumping to the conclusion that they are indeed as powerful as advertised and by consequence that Natsu is above everyone else in the tournament. That ignores two key factors:
1) It is very likely they are not as powerful as you were led to think
2) Natsu's power fluctuates wildly
Basically, you're making a big deal out of something that clearly isn't. I understand you not liking it, but it does serve a purpose in storytelling. It could have been done differently but then again, anything could.

[Socratov]

New chapter

Not much happening, i sense some buildup for whats next. And iguess leaving natsu out is a great decision. He wont be able to focus anyway with what's happening to lucy and all. I hope MJ will show us how much her demonform can actually wreck.

[LaZodiac]

Two things that I kind of dred for the following chapters

1: Juvia's gonna get beat up to show how powerful Sabertooth is (which is pointless since Sabertooth are losers evidently, thus making half of the entire manga right now completely pointless).

2: Mariejean isn't actually going to get to do anything because she's with Natsu and Wendy. This makes me sad because Mariejean and Elfman are my favorite characters.

I probably spelt her name wrong though, because it's barely ever mentioned.

[Xondoure]

LaZodiac you seem quite pessimistic. I mean you're probably right, but still. No need to see only the worst of it. Me I'm quite looking forward to seeing Erza crush everything in her path. :smallbiggrin:

[Forum Explorer]

Yeah see the problem is that right now there isn't any tension on one of the fronts. Sabertooth just suck so there isn't any drama of them winning.

The other side is interesting because it involves Wendy and the cats as well we might get to see what defenses the kingdom has against rouge super mages.

[lord_khaine]

Of course there is. It makes perfectly clear that these guys are not the main villain.

A. you dont need to worf the entire magical world to show these are not the main villains, letting Natsu and Gajeel win a close victory though sheer determination ala the battle of FT could have accomplished this without ruining everything else.

B. You dont need to show these are not the main villains because there had been enough things moving around in the shadows to hint at additional threats.

C. You dont need to dedicate an entire chapter to show that these are not the main villains, since revealing the main villain would have done the same thing faster.

There, thats 3 reasons why that was awfull storytelling.


You see, your reasoning is the entire reason behind doing this. You thought the magical world having moved on or Sabertooth being around was plot critical. Turns out it isn't. Showing so blatantly that Sabertooth is not a critical threat is the only way to make sure they are not at all important, just a bunch of overhyped dudes. Does it ruin the build up? Yes, of course it does, that's the whole point of a decoy antagonist.

And i think you missed the collatoral damage from this, seing as it hit not only SB both all the other guilds as well.


And that does not matter, since the tournament is not important at all.

What does that have to do with the tournament?
When i say take on, i mean FT style, with collatoral damage to ruin the entire city in the process.


That is simply not what happened here. Natsu was able to defeat Rogue and Sting. People have been saying they are the bee's knees. The obvious conclusion is that they are, well, not. You're jumping to the conclusion that they are indeed as powerful as advertised and by consequence that Natsu is above everyone else in the tournament. That ignores two key factors:
1) It is very likely they are not as powerful as you were led to think
2) Natsu's power fluctuates wildly
Basically, you're making a big deal out of something that clearly isn't. I understand you not liking it, but it does serve a purpose in storytelling. It could have been done differently but then again, anything could.

Now this is actualy an interesting argument worth close considderation.
And yes, if we take the match alone, then the clear conclussion should have been that the 2 DS's of ST were just simply to inexperienced, due to not having fought the same number of life or death battles.
Unfortunately, we were shown repeatedly and from several sources, that it was in the entire magical world, and though several victories in the guild tournaments, that the DS duo had earned their reputation.

A reputation that was supportet by the rest of the ST team, who generally showed a very solid level of skill, if they had been weak enough to lose to Natsu in a 1 vs 2, then it should have been noticed by the rest of the team, who would have had to carry them though previous tournaments.

1) Even accounting for overblown reputation, if Natsu has not turned into the second comming of Gildarts, then its a huge plothole that he is able to defeat 2 DS's using Dragon Force, the same buff that allowed him to defeat a wastly superior wizard saint.

2)Yeah, Natsu's level of power does suffer from random plot-related jumps, though barring outside influence activating DF, then its actualy not that big of a jump, usualy just barely enough to win.
But the problem here was then that Natsu made it look easy, meaning that its not Natsu"absolute peak of his power" that won, but Natsu"goofing around with his guildies" that defeated 2 other DS's.

But regarding the new chapter, then yeah, it is going to see if the kingdom has anything in reserve to deal with a team like this, who could crush normal castles and armies with ease.

Also, it would be nice to know a bit more about the gouverment of the Kingdom, like if its an absolute monarcy or not, because breaking Lucy out by force (impossible to do it by stealth with Natsu on the team), should make the entire guild criminals, and this most of all leads my thoughs towards the Ernes Lobby arc in OP, where the strawhats declared war on the world gouverment.

[jindra34]

Lord Khaine on the issue of Dragon Force; Do we know that it was Dragon Force itself or what Natsu ate to trigger it that actually created the major swing in power? Or that 3rd generation DS's Dragon Force operates identically other than being triggerable at will?

[Xondoure]

I think what your missing is no one, not even the other members of Fairy Tail, expected Natsu to do as well as he did. Sure Sting and Rogue got hit hard with the Worf Effect, but the point it served was to show just how freaking strong Natsu has become.

[ThiagoMartell]

I don't really understand their decision on how to split the teams, really.
Have Natsu and MJ ever worked together before? Why couldn't they send more people along with them (say, Lisana or Levvy)?

[Xondoure]

I don't really understand their decision on how to split the teams, really.
Have Natsu and MJ ever worked together before? Why couldn't they send more people along with them (say, Lisana or Levvy)?

Wendy, Mirajane, and the cats can all be relied on to be more or less stealthy. Natsu probably insisted he come along.

[Socratov]

Wendy, Mirajane, and the cats can all be relied on to be more or less stealthy. Natsu probably insisted he come along.

Don't forget the possibility Of natsu not going nuclear wyen something happens to lucy when hasn't had a chance to help. That alone will wipe the city from the map :smallamused:

[ThiagoMartell]

Wendy, Mirajane, and the cats can all be relied on to be more or less stealthy. Natsu probably insisted he come along.

Actually, isn't stealthy Shadow Gear's specialty? That's one more reason to bring in Levvy's team.

[Kato]

Actually, isn't stealthy Shadow Gear's specialty? That's one more reason to bring in Levvy's team.

Not that I would mind seeing more of Shadow Gear but when were they ever said to be stealthy? :smallconfused:


Did I mention how much I hate the spoilers every new FT opening has? Or maybe it's just because I know what will happen but still... It seems like it gives away half the plot twists.

[Hopeless]

Anime Filler:
Well they demonstrated that Natsu has 7 years to catch up on sort of like when Goku was killed and he and the others had to undergo extreme training to prepare to meet Vegeta and his henchman the first time round!
Grandine and Edoras is explained with Wendy getting her Tome of Sky Dragon Buttkicking 2.0...
Gildartz demonstrates the fine art of how to avoid becoming the fifth Guildmaster by readmitting Laxus and then making Makarov the sixth Guildmaster!
An interesting episode, looks like it'll be a couple of episodes before Sabertooth gets introduced again.
By the way was it Sting or Rogue who ate that arrow?
So he's a Wood Dragon Slayer then?
Explains the buttkicking he's going to get!
Fire never loses to wood!
Oi I had a premonition of all the bad jokes that is going to inspire!

Manga Filler:
Hmm not thinking quite straight isn't he?
Me upon not seeing Natsu in the fight look at the crowd if he isn't there assume he's heading off to rescue Lucy... ah well thats the advantage of a little foreknowledge isn't it?:smallsmile:
So Team Exceed is heading to the rescue, at least if they need a distraction they can always throw Natsu at them!!!:smallbiggrin:

[Fiery Diamond]

I personally completely agree with La's point on this one; you can talk about my manliness all you want, and I might be civil enough when there are witnessess to get yours stripped from you. But threatening essentially rape onto the two girls I care most about?

Elfman should have taken down the entire Yamcha Guild himself...

Completely and utterly agreed. If someone in real life made that kind of threat I wouldn't stop beating on them until a) I was trashed into unconsciousness or b) the threat-maker had more broken bones than whole ones. Even comparing manliness or reputation to it at all is out of whack. Stating that manliness is somehow more important... that's just outright sick.

[ThiagoMartell]

Not that I would mind seeing more of Shadow Gear but when were they ever said to be stealthy? :smallconfused:
I could swear I read that in the letter section, but after a bit of googling, it does not seem likely. I have no idea where I got that idea from. :smallredface:

[lord_khaine]

Lord Khaine on the issue of Dragon Force; Do we know that it was Dragon Force itself or what Natsu ate to trigger it that actually created the major swing in power? Or that 3rd generation DS's Dragon Force operates identically other than being triggerable at will?

Its of course true that we dont have any actualy evidence for it, but i do think the evidence is strongly pointed in that direction.
In the case of Dragon force being the desiding factor, then i mostly belive thats the case because its the only constant in Natsu's most extreme powerups in the fights vs Zero and Gerad.

As for the 3rd generations DF being identical, then based on Maevis's reaction upon seeing it i would think so, not that it wouldnt be weird otherwise.


I think what your missing is no one, not even the other members of Fairy Tail, expected Natsu to do as well as he did. Sure Sting and Rogue got hit hard with the Worf Effect, but the point it served was to show just how freaking strong Natsu has become.

Then i gotta ask WHY he became that strong all of a sudden, since neither Grey nor Lucy showed a growth anywhere near that groteske jump in power Natsu just took, even though they went though the same treatment.
And you can then also ask why Gajeel seemed to pretty much his equal after just 3 months of training.

[Kato]

Completely and utterly agreed. If someone in real life made that kind of threat I wouldn't stop beating on them until a) I was trashed into unconsciousness or b) the threat-maker had more broken bones than whole ones. Even comparing manliness or reputation to it at all is out of whack. Stating that manliness is somehow more important... that's just outright sick.
Really... not that I want to ignore the disrespect toward Mirajane and Lisanna from Bacchus side but people keeping complain he'd threatened them with rape... it was smash talk. he didn't say "I will rape them", he made a stupid bet with Elfman who was stupid enough to to just ignore him. Not that what Bacchus did was okay but calling rape goes too far in my opinion.


I could swear I read that in the letter section, but after a bit of googling, it does not seem likely. I have no idea where I got that idea from. :smallredface:
No problem... I can see how Shadow Gear might imply stealth but... none of their abilities really match it. (Okay, they're not as flashy as others but even though) I just couldn't recall any instance of them being described as the stealthy ones. FT doesn't do stealthy, ever. I guess.

[ThiagoMartell]

No problem... I can see how Shadow Gear might imply stealth but... none of their abilities really match it. (Okay, they're not as flashy as others but even though) I just couldn't recall any instance of them being described as the stealthy ones. FT doesn't do stealthy, ever. I guess.
Actually, their abilities are pretty good for stealth, since they are so subtle. Moving very fast is stealthy enough in most cases, Levy can "write up" stuff to hide behind or draw attention, the same goes for the plants.
That said, FT has a very large cast and uses it a lot better than, say, Bleach or Naruto. They are all around, the at least show up at the background and they are relevant to the plot quite frequently. The author tends to give us reasons about why characters are not around and they usually make sense.
That's probably what I like most about FT - even though it is so wacky, it's also internally consistent. It's very much like One Piece in that regard.

[jindra34]

Its of course true that we dont have any actualy evidence for it, but i do think the evidence is strongly pointed in that direction.
In the case of Dragon force being the desiding factor, then i mostly belive thats the case because its the only constant in Natsu's most extreme powerups in the fights vs Zero and Gerad.


Oh the fact that he ate something ridiculously powerful (and in the battle with Zero chosen to give him a massive power boost) isn't a common factor?

[lord_khaine]

Oh the fact that he ate something ridiculously powerful (and in the battle with Zero chosen to give him a massive power boost) isn't a common factor?

No, because normaly eating something powerfull doesnt make Natsu stronger, it just refreshesh him.

And thats not to mention we dont know anything about the proberties of the 2 widely different things he stuffed into his mouth, besides them being able to trigger Dragon Force.

[jindra34]

No, because normaly eating something powerfull doesnt make Natsu stronger, it just refreshesh him.



Then what happened when he ate God-Slayer flames? During which he didn't go Dragon Force.

[Xondoure]

No, because normaly eating something powerfull doesnt make Natsu stronger, it just refreshesh him.

And thats not to mention we dont know anything about the proberties of the 2 widely different things he stuffed into his mouth, besides them being able to trigger Dragon Force.

You keep saying this and I see no proof. From all the evidence we have saying Natsu get's powered up (instead of just having his mana refilled) when he eats fire seems to be self evident.

[Socratov]

You keep saying this and I see no proof. From all the evidence we have saying Natsu get's powered up (instead of just having his mana refilled) when he eats fire seems to be self evident.

That's because when natsu eats flames with too much energy he goes into an overcharged state allowing him to vent off more magic through dragon force and generally be awesome. All flames restore his mana, but some flames restore too much. One problem is the desity of the magic (flames). Once he eats flames that are too dense Natsu has problems digesting them, providing 'interesting' side effects.

[lord_khaine]

Then what happened when he ate God-Slayer flames? During which he didn't go Dragon Force.

Yes, what about it? Natsu has eaten flames lots of times without going into dragon force.
Not to mention that it was specificly mentioned how Godslayer flames did not behave or act like normal fire.


You keep saying this and I see no proof. From all the evidence we have saying Natsu get's powered up (instead of just having his mana refilled) when he eats fire seems to be self evident.

Actualy to start with we have tons of indirect evidence for this in the comic, and to top that up we also have a direct quote from Happy saying that "Dragon slayers can replenish their strenght and stamina by consuming things made out of their element" (chapter 62), so yes, i do considder this proven.

[jindra34]

Yes, what about it? Natsu has eaten flames lots of times without going into dragon force.
Not to mention that it was specificly mentioned how Godslayer flames did not behave or act like normal fire.


But it gave him a boost. And are your really saying that what he ate in the other two cases behaved liked normal fire?

Edit For Clarity: If as you stated, Natsu can't get a boost from eating something powerful except by it triggering Dragon Force, how do you explain Natsu getting stronger after eating Zancrow's Godslayer flames?

[lord_khaine]

But it gave him a boost. And are your really saying that what he ate in the other two cases behaved liked normal fire?

Edit For Clarity: If as you stated, Natsu can't get a boost from eating something powerful except by it triggering Dragon Force, how do you explain Natsu getting stronger after eating Zancrow's Godslayer flames?

But eating the godflame didnt give Natsu a boost, he didnt become stronger, faster or tougher like when he entered DF, instead he just figured out a way to take Zancrows attack, and return it to him with interest.

[jindra34]

But eating the godflame didnt give Natsu a boost, he didnt become stronger, faster or tougher like when he entered DF, instead he just figured out a way to take Zancrows attack, and return it to him with interest.

Called Dragon-God Slayer's Brilliant Flame. A more powerful version of an already seen attack that he could not have performed without prior eating of Zancrow's attack. How do you not call that a boost?

[INoKnowNames]

Really... not that I want to ignore the disrespect toward Mirajane and Lisanna from Bacchus side but people keeping complain he'd threatened them with rape... it was smash talk. he didn't say "I will rape them", he made a stupid bet with Elfman who was stupid enough to to just ignore him. Not that what Bacchus did was okay but calling rape goes too far in my opinion.

Even as Smack talk, them be some serious killing words.

I just realised I was stretching the heck out of this page... and darn it, one of the images was quoted...

[Dusk Eclipse]

New Chapter

So Mavis had an strategy all planed out... my guess is waiting for the ranks to thin a bit and going for the big guys of other teams who at that point would be at least slightly winded while also increasing the chances of finding the leaders of the teams and thus getting more points. Here hoping for a really badass fight.

[Felyndiira]

Bacchus continues to be a butt monkey. So much for Erza's equal =x.

The tactics seem counterproductive, also. It's not like eliminating Quattro Puppy members or some of the weaker ones in other teams will actually be exhausting for Sabertooth, Jura, or Kagura; the only thing that FT misses out on is free points from easily eliminated enemies.

[Socratov]

New chapter and answer at ^
well, let's say magic is based on resource (I know DS magic is a bit weird that way). The other guilds spend resources and level the playing field. this has 2 advantages: 1. you will keep more resources for the fights that are tougher, 2. you decrese the chances of being ambushed. Now when the field is a bit level, once everyone is engaged in a fight you can start sweeping the floor with those battles taking everyone out while they are busy. since natsu isn't present it would work because of cool thought, calculated measure and using your brain while fighting. (one side benefit: you can pick your fights and actually pit your strengths against their weaknesses)

[Felyndiira]

@^:

That makes sense in a match where The goal is to be the last man standing (like in a normal tRPG). However, point are earned in this event for defeating enemies, and the only differential between strong and weak mages is that the leader is worth 5 points. Thus, taking out Novally, Leon, or Sting is worth the exact same amount, and it is to any guild's advantage to farm the weak members first for points.

Also, none of the strong hitters are fighting each other at the moment. Saber is even specifically not going for Jura/Kagura, and from the actions of the other leaders they are likely thinking the same. It's really only luck and author fiat that Saber only managed to farm Bracchus - if they took out some of the weaker mermaids and puppies as well they'd be starting the showdown with a 10+ point lead.

Bottom line is, the strong hitters are avoiding each other and farming easy points, which Fairy Tail is missing out on. Taking out the two weaker Plamias isn't going to make Kagura any worse off if she then faces, say, Erza.

[Spacewolf]

Seems like they were waiting for the other teams to split up so they could swoop in and defeat the other team leaders as a group presumably all the while knowing where the other team leaders will be due to the predictions.

[lord_khaine]

Called Dragon-God Slayer's Brilliant Flame. A more powerful version of an already seen attack that he could not have performed without prior eating of Zancrow's attack. How do you not call that a boost?

Se the previous answer?
He just returned Zancrows own attack back with a bit of additional spin, try and compare the situation to when Natsu actualy got a boost.
(what i mean is that its Zancrowns attack that got a boost, from Godflame to Dragongod flame, not Natsu)

Anyway, new chapter out, and surprisingly enough team Natsu actualy got a decent plan for getting to Lucy :smallconfused:

[jindra34]

Se the previous answer?
He just returned Zancrows own attack back with a bit of additional spin, try and compare the situation to when Natsu actualy got a boost.
(what i mean is that its Zancrowns attack that got a boost, from Godflame to Dragongod flame, not Natsu)

So using an attack that was, until he ate it, overpowering his own flames and powering it up at the same time doesn't count as a boost? And also if you are not willing to consider that a boost may not entail Dragon Force then I feel you are being absolutely close minded.

[lord_khaine]

So using an attack that was, until he ate it, overpowering his own flames and powering it up at the same time doesn't count as a boost? And also

Yes, it counts as a boost, but in this case its Natsu doing the boosting, and the godflame that gains a boost.


if you are not willing to consider that a boost may not entail Dragon Force then I feel you are being absolutely close minded.

I dont know where you get this part from, but its not something i have said.
Just to start with Natsu has gotten several boosts from Wendy.

[jindra34]

Yes, it counts as a boost, but in this case its Natsu doing the boosting, and the godflame that gains a boost.

So eating, fulling internalising the energies of a spell, and then going and casting a spell using almost the exact same words and gestures he used when he used when he first cast it, makes the spell the one he ate.


I dont know where you get this part from, but its not something i have said.
Just to start with Natsu has gotten several boosts from Wendy.

More drawing from how you are arguing. Also note Wendy's spells boost physical capabilities (by limb to be exact) not magical.

[INoKnowNames]

Minor Question, just because I've not been paying attention:

Who'se the princess in the last page of the new chapter saying to start the project that would end the world? Or is this a new charater alert?

[Silva Stormrage]

Minor Question, just because I've not been paying attention:

Who'se the princess in the last page of the new chapter saying to start the project that would end the world? Or is this a new charater alert?

I think its a new character. I don't believe we have been introduced to any of the royal family of the kingdom yet have we?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Minor Question, just because I've not been paying attention:

Who'se the princess in the last page of the new chapter saying to start the project that would end the world? Or is this a new charater alert?

AFAIK a new character

[Socratov]

new chapter!

explaining the princess (slightly) *check*
explaining the First *check*
explaining Rufus *check*
cool Natsu moment (punny i know) *check*
yeah,i guess it qualifies as a FT chapter, not too shabby, did expect some collateral damage though (and a bit more then just slightly molten and very bent bars)

[Drolyt]

Huh, so does this mean the first honestly doesn't think Laxus or Erza could defeat Jura? Jellal seemed confident he could win as long as he used his real power, and I would have thought that as a former Wizard Saint he would have the best idea of Jura's strength (Jura also said he was the weakest Wizard Saint, but he said that after Siegrain and Jose had already lost their positions, although it would be odd if their replacements were significantly stronger than they were). Although maybe Jellal is just that much stronger than Laxus and Erza, that isn't really made clear.

[Kato]

Hm... yeah, nice chapter but little too spectacular. Except what little we learn about the princess...

Oh god, please nobody start another discussion about power levels in FT... guess Mavis has her reasons for giving Yura as much credit as she does but... Holy ****, Erza beat 100 monsters at once. Who were said to be possibly stronger than a Saint. I... I'll just not think about it...

[Socratov]

Hm... yeah, nice chapter but little too spectacular. Except what little we learn about the princess...

Oh god, please nobody start another discussion about power levels in FT... guess Mavis has her reasons for giving Yura as much credit as she does but... Holy ****, Erza beat 100 monsters at once. Who were said to be possibly stronger than a Saint. I... I'll just not think about it...

On Jura: he was a saint (albeit the joungest) 7 years ago. He also was hte only one to indicate not sitting on his arse while he was on the pluche. Not sitting on your arse has the uncanny benefit of improving one's abilites (generally speaking then), It was also 7 years ago rumored that while he was the youngest, he was certainly not the weakest of the saints. Jellal was kind of nervous back then.

Something tells me that Jura actually improved a lot (especially after various encounters with FT's Natsu). So he should be a bother. (It does depend however on the match. If he finds someone who can counter his earth element he's toast.) I do like the fact that Mavis isn't the idiot she has made us believe. I mean, sure Fairy Glitter, Fairy Dome and Fairy Law are nothing to scoff at, but still tactical genius beats raw power any time (except maybe against dragonslayers who are all hyped up, they use powerhax).

[lord_khaine]

Oh god, please nobody start another discussion about power levels in FT... guess Mavis has her reasons for giving Yura as much credit as she does but... Holy ****, Erza beat 100 monsters at once. Who were said to be possibly stronger than a Saint. I... I'll just not think about it...

As i recall they just said that the strongest monster would be trouble for even a wizard saint, something that imo just tells us the people organising the event have no idea whatsoever about how strong the saints actualy are.


Something tells me that Jura actually improved a lot (especially after various encounters with FT's Natsu). So he should be a bother. (It does depend however on the match. If he finds someone who can counter his earth element he's toast.) I do like the fact that Mavis isn't the idiot she has made us believe. I mean, sure Fairy Glitter, Fairy Dome and Fairy Law are nothing to scoff at, but still tactical genius beats raw power any time (except maybe against dragonslayers who are all hyped up, they use powerhax).

Its actualy depressing how rarely that last part is true in the top manga, the only place i rmember it being just the least bit common is in FMA and HunterXHunter.

Else, as wizards saints go then i could imagine that Jura would be close to his prime right now, from having the perfect balance between body and magic.

[ThiagoMartell]

Its actualy depressing how rarely that last part is true in the top manga, the only place i rmember it being just the least bit common is in FMA and HunterXHunter.


Naruto actually does it too, the only problem is that the only actual genius is Shikamaru. Yeah, they say other people are geniuses, but the only actual one is Shikamaru.

[Kato]

Naruto actually does it too, the only problem is that the only actual genius is Shikamaru. Yeah, they say other people are geniuses, but the only actual one is Shikamaru.

As much as I like Shikamaru... he's still no genius. Well, not a IQ=200 genius as Asuma claimed way back, iirc. That's the thing... a character has a hard time being smarter than the writer... in a decent way. (As in, not the way Sherlock Holmes was a genius)
I really can't see how Mavis could possibly predict all their enemies actions which... kind of would ruin the thing for me if I took FT serious on any level.

[Drolyt]

As much as I like Shikamaru... he's still no genius. Well, not a IQ=200 genius as Asuma claimed way back, iirc. That's the thing... a character has a hard time being smarter than the writer... in a decent way. (As in, not the way Sherlock Holmes was a genius)
I really can't see how Mavis could possibly predict all their enemies actions which... kind of would ruin the thing for me if I took FT serious on any level.
This is a problem with pretty much every "genius" character in fiction. Mostly genius seems to mean "pull answers out of nowhere"*. It is still fun if you ignore that.

* It doesn't help that in the real world "genius" usually means the ability to complete complex, long term projects (great works of art, cutting edge technology, state of the art scientific research, etc.) rather than the kind of... fast thinking might be a good term... that TV geniuses seem to have.

[INoKnowNames]

Am I first to the new chapter?

Was anyone not expecting that win for Fairy Tail?

Unfortunately, didn't seem to update on Lucy's situation...

[Forum Explorer]

Another win for Fairy Tail but at least it made sense in the fight.

Also Grey looted the hat! Way to go Grey!

[ThiagoMartell]

Kinda disappointed. Felt more like an Erza fight than a Grey fight.

[LaZodiac]

I like the concept that he can make magic constructs faster then Rufus can memorize them, I just wonder HOW this is a thing that is possible.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Another win for Fairy Tail but at least it made sense in the fight.

Also Grey looted the hat! Way to go Grey!

I for one hope Grey keeps the hat. :smallbiggrin:

[tyckspoon]

I like the concept that he can make magic constructs faster then Rufus can memorize them, I just wonder HOW this is a thing that is possible.

Ice Make: Unlimited Blade Works! :smalltongue: Off-the-cuff theory: Rufus *could* memorize it, if he had waited until the whole arc was complete and memorized the structure as a single spell. Instead he tried to memorize each individual part, got overwhelmed by the speed they were being generated at, and was too flustered to take the opportunity to snapshot the completed effect once it was set and before Grey launched it.

[LaZodiac]

I for one hope Grey keeps the hat. :smallbiggrin:

Bah, he'll strip it off with the rest of his cloths eventually.


Ice Make: Unlimited Blade Works! :smalltongue: Off-the-cuff theory: Rufus *could* memorize it, if he had waited until the whole arc was complete and memorized the structure as a single spell. Instead he tried to memorize each individual part, got overwhelmed by the speed they were being generated at, and was too flustered to take the opportunity to snapshot the completed effect once it was set and before Grey launched it.

That works.

[Kato]

I for one hope Grey keeps the hat. :smallbiggrin:
Ditto :smallbiggrin: It looks very charming. And I've always been a fan of that FF Red Mage style hat.


Ice Make: Unlimited Blade Works!
Hehe, that's what I thought as well. Okay, he nearly called it that himself.


Meh, decent chapter. Of course no surprise but it worked.
Also, I like how Mavis commented basically on the recent discussion: "Sometimes emotions can overcome calculations."
Good summary of how logic works in FT.

Otherwise... Yeah, not much to say. But it was okay.

[lord_khaine]

Also, I like how Mavis commented basically on the recent discussion: "Sometimes emotions can overcome calculations."
Good summary of how logic works in FT.

I hated it with the burning passion of a thousand suns.. :smallmad:

If it only happend sometimes it wouldnt be a problem, but as it is now it doesnt matter if you have more experience though a lifetime of battle, trained day and night to be the best, or used your head to plan ahead and gotten a serious tactical advantage.

Because as soon as you come up against a FT mage they just go lol emotions and beat you anyway. :smallannoyed:

[Xondoure]

I hated it with the burning passion of a thousand suns.. :smallmad:

If it only happend sometimes it wouldnt be a problem, but as it is now it doesnt matter if you have more experience though a lifetime of battle, trained day and night to be the best, or used your head to plan ahead and gotten a serious tactical advantage.

Because as soon as you come up against a FT mage they just go lol emotions and beat you anyway. :smallannoyed:

Heart: not such a lame power after all.

[Drolyt]

I hated it with the burning passion of a thousand suns.. :smallmad:

If it only happend sometimes it wouldnt be a problem, but as it is now it doesnt matter if you have more experience though a lifetime of battle, trained day and night to be the best, or used your head to plan ahead and gotten a serious tactical advantage.

Because as soon as you come up against a FT mage they just go lol emotions and beat you anyway. :smallannoyed:
I agree somewhat, the battles have become somewhat boring because of that. And Rufus had such a cool power too.

[Xondoure]

The only issue I see is that the fights are too short to build up any drama, but since we seem to be running straight into a larger plot I can forgive that.

[Forum Explorer]

The only issue I see is that the fights are too short to build up any drama, but since we seem to be running straight into a larger plot I can forgive that.

Potential for drama from Sabertooth disappeared when Natsu crushed the two ST dragonslayers easily.

[Socratov]

So, yeah, finally read the chapter, here come my thoughts, neatly arranged in remarks in answer on a couple of quotes:

Ice Make: Unlimited Blade Works! :smalltongue: Off-the-cuff theory: Rufus *could* memorize it, if he had waited until the whole arc was complete and memorized the structure as a single spell. Instead he tried to memorize each individual part, got overwhelmed by the speed they were being generated at, and was too flustered to take the opportunity to snapshot the completed effect once it was set and before Grey launched it.
Can you spell sensory overload? What basically happened is that Gray was faster then rufus. My guess is that when you try to momeorize magic you need to see how it's done, what the effect is and plainly what it looks like when executed (or at least some sensory recording). If any of these aspects fail becuase you have no direct line of sight/hearing/etc. or you can't keep up with what happens, you've lost. to make a memory you need to do 3 things where a person executing the magic does one. It carries huge risks, but has almost unlimited potential. this way you can deprive an ememy of his or her weapons, or use their weapons against them. It doesn't come for free however.

I for one hope Grey keeps the hat. :smallbiggrin:
No. it doesn't suit him, it's not his style, something along those lines...

Another win for Fairy Tail but at least it made sense in the fight.

Also Grey looted the hat! Way to go Grey!
agreed, Gray was on a timer here. rufus could draw it out, but gray needed to beat rufus ASAP becuase of the tactical advantage. His tactics were actually quite well executed: first: get to know thyne enemy, buy time to devise strategy, bring out appropriate big guns. And yes while keeping it is not a good idea, looting the hat shows style. Bonus points earned I'd say.

Ditto :smallbiggrin: It looks very charming. And I've always been a fan of that FF Red Mage style hat.


Hehe, that's what I thought as well. Okay, he nearly called it that himself.


Meh, decent chapter. Of course no surprise but it worked.
Also, I like how Mavis commented basically on the recent discussion: "Sometimes emotions can overcome calculations."
Good summary of how logic works in FT.

Otherwise... Yeah, not much to say. But it was okay.
well, ofcourse. emotions are like nature's limitbreaker. this is turned up to 11 with dragonslayer magic where emotions literally are the catalyst of one's magic and serve as some kind of endless fuel. the fact that you can make a statistical distribution based on one's powers can't reliably account for the limitbreak of emotions since the rise in strength isn't that accountable. Emotions can help people do the most improbable things, and keep them from doing the most simple things, they are a wildcard in statistical analysis, and ultimately uncontrolled.

Potential for drama from Sabertooth disappeared when Natsu crushed the two ST dragonslayers easily.
yes pertaining to the mostpowerful of the guild type of things, no on killing the entire potential for drama. natsu did that. he had beef with the guild. he went all-out. natsu is currently not fighting in the tounament. -> drama back in, if FT doesn't win something might happen to Lucy. Plus I want to know how strong Gajeel has become.


All in all, I thought is was a neat chapter. concise, to the point and kept a good pacing. I'm curious how the other FT's are going to curbstomp.

[Dusk Eclipse]

One thing that many people seem to forget about emotion's impact on a Fairy Tail mage is that they aren't completely powered by it. All of them are fairly powerful on their own right, Natsu was a S-class mage candidate very early on the series (he was just too hotheaded; but he had the skills) and he has only grown since them. I'd say that Saberthooth and Fairy Tail mages were pretty even in power level (at least the ones who went to Tenrou Island) and Emotion powah (TM) gives them just enough of a boost to break the stalemate (Do note how Gray was clearly hurt in his battle).

[Socratov]

well, in terms of power Dragon Slayermagic is insane. Normally it's not toptier, but tier 2 at least, and with Emotion Powah(TM) it goes into the negative tiers, add in a little of their own element and you've got a walking and talking nuke. FT is just a guild filled with determinators, which allows them to overcharge with emotion... (even the 'cool' kids liek Gray)

[ThiagoMartell]

One thing that many people seem to forget about emotion's impact on a Fairy Tail mage is that they aren't completely powered by it. All of them are fairly powerful on their own right, Natsu was a S-class mage candidate very early on the series (he was just too hotheaded; but he had the skills) and he has only grown since them. I'd say that Saberthooth and Fairy Tail mages were pretty even in power level (at least the ones who went to Tenrou Island) and Emotion powah (TM) gives them just enough of a boost to break the stalemate (Do note how Gray was clearly hurt in his battle).
Also, remember how even with the Power of Friendship they got completely decimated in Tenrou.

[Socratov]

Also, remember how even with the Power of Friendship they got completely decimated in Tenrou.

No. when they used the power of friendship they were guarding against acnologia. And it's safe to say that the power of friendship did protect them wholly from acnologia with the side effect of causing a timeskip. and remember that acnologia is equivalent to a god. an unstoppable force. Just sayin

[ThiagoMartell]

No. when they used the power of friendship they were guarding against acnologia. And it's safe to say that the power of friendship did protect them wholly from acnologia with the side effect of causing a timeskip. and remember that acnologia is equivalent to a god. an unstoppable force. Just sayin

Dude, you remember how a single guy basically defeated the whole guild? And there was an explanation as to why they survived... and it ain't what you said it was.

[Dusk Eclipse]

True, that is primary why I found baffling that many people complain that Fairy Tail only wins through the power of emotion/determination (which incidentally is the one thing almost all Shonen heroes share), yes I agree it is an important part of it; but it isn't all there it is to it.

[Spacewolf]

Not really sure if the emotional issue really comes up here it was just good tactics by grey, not exactly suprising flames didn't work either considering who his sparing partner is.

Seemed to be a reasonably logical and fair victory

[Dusk Eclipse]

People are getting hung up on Mavis' comment of "Sometimes emotion can overcome calculations".

[LaZodiac]

The reason why I'm so hung up on "emotions beat calculations" thing is because one of my absolute favorite fights in the series was Gildartz vs Natsu. Natsu runs face first into him, using his emotion fueled power to try and defeat Gildartz.

And he fails, so hard that Natsu strait up admits defeat. Because Gildartz is just that powerful. And I wish the series was more like that. Emotions are all well and good, but when a difference of power exists, the person who is stronger is going to win.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The thing is that against Gildartsz Natsu had NO CHANCE at all, I mean Gildartz survived a solo battle against Acknowliga, an enemy so powerful that even the strongest members in the guild (including the current master) couldn't even touch.

On the other hand Rufus and Gray were sufficiently evenly matched that the power of emotion gave the boost needed. Even Mavis acknowledges Gray had a chance against him.

In short, Emotion in fairy tail makes something possible a reality; but it won't make something impossible possible.

[ThiagoMartell]

The reason why I'm so hung up on "emotions beat calculations" thing is because one of my absolute favorite fights in the series was Gildartz vs Natsu. Natsu runs face first into him, using his emotion fueled power to try and defeat Gildartz.

And he fails, so hard that Natsu strait up admits defeat. Because Gildartz is just that powerful. And I wish the series was more like that. Emotions are all well and good, but when a difference of power exists, the person who is stronger is going to win.

It sometimes is. Emotions help you defeat people that are more powerful - they give you an extra edge. Sometimes, however, the gap is just that big. Which has been a staple of shounen since forever and FT uses it quite well.

[DiscipleofBob]

What's also important is to acknowledge that it wasn't that Gray was certain to lose by calculations alone. It's just that, unlike the rest of the battles (so far), Mavis couldn't accurately predict the outcome of a battle between Gray and Rufus, so she had to have faith in Gray's abilities. It wasn't necessarily that emotions beat calculations, despite the quote, it was that sometimes emotions can be the deciding factor in calculations.

[Drolyt]

The main problem with the whole "my emotions will let me beat someone stronger than me" is that it just doesn't work that way in real life, so why should it work in fiction?

What's also important is to acknowledge that it wasn't that Gray was certain to lose by calculations alone. It's just that, unlike the rest of the battles (so far), Mavis couldn't accurately predict the outcome of a battle between Gray and Rufus, so she had to have faith in Gray's abilities. It wasn't necessarily that emotions beat calculations, despite the quote, it was that sometimes emotions can be the deciding factor in calculations.
Which is nonsense. Unless Mavis' calculations were simply wrong letting Gray fight Rufus was simply stupid.

[DiscipleofBob]

The main problem with the whole "my emotions will let me beat someone stronger than me" is that it just doesn't work that way in real life, so why should it work in fiction?

Because it's not real life? It's fiction? Magic doesn't work in real life either.


Which is nonsense. Unless Mavis' calculations were simply wrong letting Gray fight Rufus was simply stupid.

Results show otherwise.

[Forum Explorer]

The main problem with the whole "my emotions will let me beat someone stronger than me" is that it just doesn't work that way in real life, so why should it work in fiction?

Which is nonsense. Unless Mavis' calculations were simply wrong letting Gray fight Rufus was simply stupid.

Yes it does. Our max strength is a lot larger then what we can normally access and using that max strength is usually in response to emotion. Or even just being filled with rage which gives you more energy and allows you to ignore pain then the guy who doesn't care.


Her calculations were likely something like Grey has a 20% chance of beating Rufus. Therefore that fight isn't favorable.

[Xondoure]

The main problem with the whole "my emotions will let me beat someone stronger than me" is that it just doesn't work that way in real life, so why should it work in fiction?

Which is nonsense. Unless Mavis' calculations were simply wrong letting Gray fight Rufus was simply stupid.

There are stories of mothers who can lift trees off of their babies. Emotion taps into adrenaline, and adrenaline does crazy things.