fighter feat maybe move teir a little.

[morkendi]

Pretty new to being a dm in 3.5. My friends and i rotate games so we all get to play. I useally stay away from homebrew stuff, but i am thinking about something for fighter only. I am calling it versatile fighter. First one lets you change feats in mourning like a wizard changes spells. Thing is you still have to find someone to teach you the feat to add it to your available options. Second is improved versatility. Same thing, but change out of combat. Last is epic, full round maneuver lets you change. Each feat you train to add takes 1 month and 1000 gold to learn at which point you make a dç 20 roll minus character level to master. If you fail, you start over with same cost, but add 2 to your roll. Only downfall, when you do your feats, you can not drop the versatility line unless something like a psion does a psychic reformation for you. In essence, you tie up 3 slots if you go all the way to epic as each one is a pre req. All feats have to be fighter feats.

[Lateral]

First of all, this should be in the homebrew forum.

Second of all, this is a decent idea (and one I've seen before), but it won't solve all of the class's problems. Still, it does help a lot. I would recommend just implementing it as a Fighter class feature, granted at certain levels along the way in addition to all of the normal bonus feats that a Fighter gets. It certainly can't hurt to add that, and taking other things away because of it is really unnecessary.

[eggs]

Each feat you train to add takes 1 month and 1000 gold to learn at which point you make a dç 20 roll minus character level to master.
Most of the Fighter's power comes from his gear budget. If getting class features cuts into that, you're going to be working in the wrong direction (not that you couldn't compensate with more wealth, but that seems like adding an unneeded layer of complexity).

[morkendi]

The cost is there because a character shouldn't be able to go learn a bunch feats free. I dont limit cash in my game, but magic items are not generally bought or sold. Finding more than a plus 2 weapon is rare. This fits in the way i do spell research as well. Mages hoard their spells and dont share. A wizard has to establish a library of his own. Cost is 1000 per spell level cumulative. So 1st lvl is 1000, 2nd is cost 2000 makeing you have a research library worth 3000 and so on. Plus you have to have a place to store it.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The cost is there because a character shouldn't be able to go learn a bunch feats free. I dont limit cash in my game, but magic items are not generally bought or sold. Finding more than a plus 2 weapon is rare. This fits in the way i do spell research as well. Mages hoard their spells and dont share. A wizard has to establish a library of his own. Cost is 1000 per spell level cumulative. So 1st lvl is 1000, 2nd is cost 2000 makeing you have a research library worth 3000 and so on. Plus you have to have a place to store it.

I just have one thing to say to that:

Don't mess with the WBL rules unless you really, truly know what you're doing. There is a 99.9% chance you'll make 3.5's power gap wider. And you're in the 99.9%.

A level 20 fighter relies on his Wings of Flying and +5 Keen Speed falchion to survive. Monk? Same, except replace the falchion with a double-the-cost-of-a-magic-weapon Necklace of Natural Attacks. Triple cost for Amulet of Mighty Fists in core-only.

Meanwhile, the wizard is less versatile, but he's still a gamebreaker, and he still has a couple extra spells known over the sorcerer with which he can grab some swiss army knife spells. The druid's even worse, he just grabs Vow of Poverty, as the only class other than totemist that can actually take it without being severely nerfed, and has near-full WBL with less flexibility, flexibility easily made up for with spells and Wild Shape. Sorcerer is nearly untouched. Those fighter vs wizard threads? They rarely take into account the wizard's WBL beyond "he used some of it to buy more spells". On the other hand, it's almost an unspoken agreement that the fighter has his full set of magic gear.

3.5 has the Christmas Tree Effect built in. It's a long, precise process to remove it from the system without damaging it, and you're better off leaving 3.5 entirely if you don't like magic items. Warrior, Rogue, and Mage is a rules-lite system I've heard of. Dresden Files RPG is another one, relatively easy to adapt, and it has a free System Reference Document.

[Invader]

The problem with changing out your feats every morning is that no omw is going to because the don't have a reason. Say you have 5 feats to use, sure you can build a tripper or a charger or a more tankish character but unless you know exactly what you'll be fighting and doing that day it's kinda pointless. IMO it doesn't really make the fighter any better mechanically.

For better ideas to make the fighter better find the other post within the first page or 2 about raising the fighter from tier 5 to 4.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I just have one thing to say to that:

Don't mess with the WBL rules unless you really, truly know what you're doing. There is a 99.9% chance you'll make 3.5's power gap wider. And you're in the 99.9%.

A level 20 fighter relies on his Wings of Flying and +5 Keen Speed falchion to survive. Monk? Same, except replace the falchion with a double-the-cost-of-a-magic-weapon Necklace of Natural Attacks. Triple cost for Amulet of Mighty Fists in core-only.

Meanwhile, the wizard is less versatile, but he's still a gamebreaker, and he still has a couple extra spells known over the sorcerer with which he can grab some swiss army knife spells. The druid's even worse, he just grabs Vow of Poverty, as the only class other than totemist that can actually take it without being severely nerfed, and has near-full WBL with less flexibility, flexibility easily made up for with spells and Wild Shape. Sorcerer is nearly untouched. Those fighter vs wizard threads? They rarely take into account the wizard's WBL beyond "he used some of it to buy more spells". On the other hand, it's almost an unspoken agreement that the fighter has his full set of magic gear.


Um what? The NoNA only doubles (or triples, etc) if you enchant it to affect more than 1 natural attack and by RAW even if you are using your hands, feets, head, elbow, knees, hip thrusts, it is only one weapon the Unarmed Strike.. (somewhat silly; but you have to give the monk something)

[Hiro Protagonest]

Um what? The NoNA only doubles (or triples, etc) if you enchant it to affect more than 1 natural attack and by RAW even if you are using your hands, feets, head, elbow, knees, hip thrusts, it is only one weapon the Unarmed Strike.. (somewhat silly; but you have to give the monk something)

Really? I thought it was just always double the cost of a regular magic weapon. 4000 for +1, 16000 for +2, etc.

[morkendi]

You can get that stuff, your just not going to walk in a shop and buy it. Kings, major bad guys, dragon hoards, party item creation feats, rewards for something major, thats where the high end magic items come from in my world. I create my own bosses and there equipment. The dwarf fighter has an axe now that is +2 that heals for half damage on crit he got from orc chief. The ranger has a +2 bow with what i call quiver of many arrows. Arrows return so that quiver is always full. Not major, but i thing good at lvl 5. Party has couple rings+1. Dwarf has dwarven plate +1 with no dex penalty. Melee must have this stuff in order to scale with casters. I have played in games where i felt it was over done. My dark elf warrior in another game bought a vorpal sword in some back water town just cause it was in the dm guide. If i had a vorpal sword, i wouldn't sell it unless i was destitute and needed to feed my family. Second, how did he get it to sell? Third, sell it to a drow with nothing compelling him? Makes no sense to me.

[GenghisDon]

I just have one thing to say to that:

Don't mess with the WBL rules unless you really, truly know what you're doing. There is a 99.9% chance you'll make 3.5's power gap wider. And you're in the 99.9%.

A level 20 fighter relies on his Wings of Flying and +5 Keen Speed falchion to survive. Monk? Same, except replace the falchion with a double-the-cost-of-a-magic-weapon Necklace of Natural Attacks. Triple cost for Amulet of Mighty Fists in core-only.

Meanwhile, the wizard is less versatile, but he's still a gamebreaker, and he still has a couple extra spells known over the sorcerer with which he can grab some swiss army knife spells. The druid's even worse, he just grabs Vow of Poverty, as the only class other than totemist that can actually take it without being severely nerfed, and has near-full WBL with less flexibility, flexibility easily made up for with spells and Wild Shape. Sorcerer is nearly untouched. Those fighter vs wizard threads? They rarely take into account the wizard's WBL beyond "he used some of it to buy more spells". On the other hand, it's almost an unspoken agreement that the fighter has his full set of magic gear.

3.5 has the Christmas Tree Effect built in. It's a long, precise process to remove it from the system without damaging it, and you're better off leaving 3.5 entirely if you don't like magic items. Warrior, Rogue, and Mage is a rules-lite system I've heard of. Dresden Files RPG is another one, relatively easy to adapt, and it has a free System Reference Document.

bold mine

agreed on the X-mas tree effect. One doesn't have THAT hard a time changing the system however. Spell chuckers literally need to be cut in half, or else banished entirely, though. Sneak attack type damage probably needs a wider gap between extra dice as well. Monsters need lots of vetting, but I expect running them as CR+1/4 would be about right.


You can get that stuff, your just not going to walk in a shop and buy it. Kings, major bad guys, dragon hoards, party item creation feats, rewards for something major, thats where the high end magic items come from in my world. I create my own bosses and there equipment. The dwarf fighter has an axe now that is +2 that heals for half damage on crit he got from orc chief. The ranger has a +2 bow with what i call quiver of many arrows. Arrows return so that quiver is always full. Not major, but i thing good at lvl 5. Party has couple rings+1. Dwarf has dwarven plate +1 with no dex penalty. Melee must have this stuff in order to scale with casters. I have played in games where i felt it was over done. My dark elf warrior in another game bought a vorpal sword in some back water town just cause it was in the dm guide. If i had a vorpal sword, i wouldn't sell it unless i was destitute and needed to feed my family. Second, how did he get it to sell? Third, sell it to a drow with nothing compelling him? Makes no sense to me.

This is something completely different. If you keep a close eye on on how powerful the characters are relative to critters/NPC's, there ought not be any real problems here. I do this all the time, albiet I do consult the WBL to see how far up or down the PC's are at the moment.