Creating a villain for Sunday's game.

[Sir_Chivalry]

So I've been called upon to run a game for Sunday, and I'm trying to cook up a story, a threat for the game, some over-arching thing that will be the theme and motif.

That being said, right now I'm figuring I'll do a fallen paladin character for the villain, though I'm open to suggestions on that. Now I figure he's the dragon here, with a smarter villain waiting in the wings giving him orders, but I'm trying to figure out the details of all this. So, here's my musings, feel free to rip me a new one:smallbiggrin:


He was once a great hero, but slowly, over years, crept across the moral event horizon until he fell, and was thought to have been beaten before, but is now returned from the grave (not necessarily undead, just escaped death). Otherwise, could go for the "great tragedy made him forsake his god" or the "was seduced by evil"
I'm thinking of not making him undead, though a vampire or especially preserved "lich" or some such could work for preserving his features. There's something lost when the villain is just a cackling skeleton (no offense to Mr. Burlew, he makes it work, I can't)
Then there's the question of whether he should be a paladin at all. Could easily be a fallen hero who is a knight, a fighter or a crusader. Is it worthwhile going paladin for him, or would a similar build work better?
Making him an Intimidate focused guy, yea or nea?

As for his master, I was thinking some sort of theurge?

[ThiagoMartell]

ex-Paladin 1/Blackguard 10 is a pretty good build for a villain like this, covering all the basics. If it is effective or not depends a lot on optimization level, how many levels it is ahead of the party and party composition.

However, I'd just like to point that IMHO it's better to focus first in the story and then in the characters as a DM. If you focus on characters first, you end up with characters that are just too important, you end up attached and if/when they get killed unexpectedly everything could go to hell. My humble suggestion is to focus on the story first and always have a backup plan.

[GenghisDon]

what level & how many characters is the game for?

[The Redwolf]

[list]
He was once a great hero, but slowly, over years, crept across the moral event horizon until he fell, and was thought to have been beaten before, but is now returned from the grave (not necessarily undead, just escaped death). Otherwise, could go for the "great tragedy made him forsake his god" or the "was seduced by evil"

As for his master, I was thinking some sort of theurge?

My thought with the last part about seduced by evil, he got seduced by a succubus on the orders of a more powerful demon, and now she is manipulating him on the higher-up's, or rather, lower-down's, orders to achieve some evil end.

[docnessuno]

what level & how many characters is the game for?

NpC level?
Sources?
Stats?
Party composition, level and optimization level?
Encountered alone or with followers/minions?

[Invader]

Personally I never liked Lich's with anything but arcane caster levels but I always loved Lich's in general.

[QuidEst]

Not fond of fallen Paladins.

Sorry, that is a general complaint, and not one leveled against this in particular. I've just seen more corrupt, fallen, or all-Lawful-no-Good Paladins than normal ones. Well, maybe it's a little more even if you count the reformed devils/demons that become Paladins, but I'm not fond of them either.

Still! I'm not your players, and now that I have my petty griping out of the way, I can try and be useful. :smallwink:

If I were doing a fallen Paladin, I'd start by making Paladins look good. Honest, brave, incorruptible. They don't really get enough credit for that, and a fallen Paladin isn't a big deal unless being a Paladin is a big deal. I'd make the back story that he was up against something too powerful for him. Against the odds, he managed to drive it back and defeat it, but it got a hold of him, poisoning his soul and planting a seed of itself in him. He banished the evil whatever, and returned a hero, but the seed grew inside him, and eventually took over. Makes it more tragic to be fighting him. Or you can skip the seed thing- he defeated the evil whatever, but had to sacrifice his hope. Without that, other things were able to creep in and build on despair.

[Rejakor]

Zhentarim Fighter 10.

Focus on a defensive style, possibly with thicket of blades. Stuff like Shield Block etc. Have him have some kind of favourable terrain, possibly one that stops the party using him as arrowbait, and give him that armour that lets him intimidate as a move action, and Never Outnumbered skill trick.

Give him the Mage Slayer feat chain, and have him be something with spell resistance (mummy lord? lich?) to add to that 'dear god we can't stop him and he's terrifying' feel. He makes everyone flee and then ponderously walks toward someone who is cornered and chops heavily at them (full power attack, maybe shock trooping too), so they can have the 'oh god if that connects' moment and be ducking and dodging the blows like a character in a movie.

Play up the once great hero turned into a shambling wreck kind of thing, have him be physically powerful but not great tactically or skillwise - have him just be unstoppable and filled with anger and hate. Some buffs from his master might be a thing to do, who I suggest should be either an awakened ghoul if you want scurrying evil, vampire if you want aristocratic haughty evil, or lich if you want crawling darkness evil.

And make sure you describe how scary he is, as he is scaring everyone, rotted flesh and rags and evil and loss and pain and anger and wildly rolling eyes as the spirit of the man who once was writhes in torment inside the shambling hulk. etc etc

at least that's how i'd run it.

[dantiesilva]

Cleric 2/Rogue 3/ Shadowbane inquister X

All in all they are stronger then the blackguard though they do not gain spells. And its capstone is pretty good. The best part is they are made to fall. Literally, it is their first ability they gain. They think that what they are doing is the right thing no matter how evil it is and as such get to keep having all their abilities. You know being able to deal massive amounts of damage out to like 70ft. away, sounds good.

[Sir_Chivalry]

ex-Paladin 1/Blackguard 10 is a pretty good build for a villain like this, covering all the basics. If it is effective or not depends a lot on optimization level, how many levels it is ahead of the party and party composition.

However, I'd just like to point that IMHO it's better to focus first in the story and then in the characters as a DM. If you focus on characters first, you end up with characters that are just too important, you end up attached and if/when they get killed unexpectedly everything could go to hell. My humble suggestion is to focus on the story first and always have a backup plan.

That would be why I came to you guys for the character ideas.


NpC level?
Sources?
Stats?
Party composition, level and optimization level?
Encountered alone or with followers/minions?


So I've been called upon to run a game for Sunday, and I'm trying to cook up a story, a threat for the game, some over-arching thing that will be the theme and motif.

20th
All
Whatever I end up rolling or deciding
See quote above, two guys from my group and three fresh people, but he's not fighting them NOW
Generally I find it's best to give a villain minions.

As I'm looking to create an interesting villain, the composition of the party is less of an issue, as I've always found as long as you can make a good role-playing experience (which I could do making this guy a 20th level commoner) the stats simply flavour the character. And thus I'm trying to make the tastiest guy possible, so a fallen hero of some sort is generally a good trope to draw from.

Sorry Rejakor, you had me until mummy. I'll take a look at the other stuff though, but see my point on undead. What you're describing is a brute, not a big bad villain. The brute is generally the muscle for the dragon, and this guy's the dragon.

[ThiagoMartell]

Level 20, really? I'd go a lot lower, unless your PCs are starting above level 10. Don't plan too far ahead, otherwise chances are you won't use anything you planned of you'll be forced to railroad to use it.

[Sir_Chivalry]

And yet I have four games with my various groups, all run from 1st to 20th, without railroading. Why would I need to railroad to make a villain relevant?:smallconfused:

[dantiesilva]

So I take it you are not a fan of the Shadowbane inquister that I suggested saying you had no comment.

[Sir_Chivalry]

So I take it you are not a fan of the Shadowbane inquister that I suggested saying you had no comment.

Rogue 2/Shadowbane Inquisitor 7/Blackguard 5/Bone Knight 1/Pious Templar 1

The four missing paladin levels are in Blackguard.

I'm a huge fan of the class actually. I simply am trying to prevent myself from using it for this one.

[AlanBruce]

Depending on the level you want, why not try a cleric 15/ftr2/ordained champion 5. He need not be necessarily a fallen paladin, but a true hero for the dark forces. Pump his wisdom and charisma as much as you can, for saves and smites. Then apply the searing spell feat and the DMM version of it. You'll be casting spells at 18th level, and more importantly, you may spontaneously cast any spell from the war domain list as a swift action. Combine that with searing spell, and you may cast two flamestrikes/round, on top of everything else this guy would have at its disposal.

[docnessuno]

Knight 4 / Crusader 4 / Ur priest 2 / Ruby knight Windicator 10

Requires some refluffing of UR or RKW (depending on wich kind of "evil" you prefer) and the Skill Knowledge feat (spellcraft and bluff) to qualify, but works very well and portrays nicely the "fall". 9th level divine spell (CL 10, so your parrty can still have a good chance to dispel them if they try), 9th level manouvers, BaB 19.
Get leadership for a nightmare cohort to increase the cool factor.
Don't have time right now for a complete build, but let's see if you like the concept firts.

[Fable Wright]

Hm... one idea is to go Chameleon Dungeoncrasher Zhentarim Thug Fighter 9/Hexblade 4/Goliath Substitution Level Barbarian 1 (Qualifying with the Racial Emulation feat)/Paladin of Tyranny 3/Blackguard 3, grabbing some Martial Study feats on the way there. It really brings home the message of terror when the Dragon is forcing penalties on everything just by being near you, Cowering you with a Swift action via Imperious Command (and cowering the lot of them in the beginning with Never Outnumbered), and repeatedly slamming you back into a wall with Knockback (Provided a Large size, of course) for huge amounts of damage. He's a monster in combat and a terrifying opponent. However, the best part is, that isn't the entirety of his build- he has a lot of in-built minion manipulation mechanics. First off, Thug adds quite a lot to the fighter skill list- stealthy skills, gather information, and so on. The guy's able to sneak around, look like anyone, bluff his way out of trouble, and is in general Roguelike. However, he also has a rather uncanny ability from Zhentarim Fighter 5- the Intimidate skill's "Opponent acts friendly" use lasts for 24 hours after the fighter leaves- normally, with Intimidate, your influence lasts but for a few minutes for a useful interrogation session or to get someone to act as a hostage or so forth. Zhentarim Fighter, however, essentially allows this guy to grab any random person off the street, and bully them into working for him for a day- going into places he couldn't, providing information that the Changeling needs, and so on- or, as per the "Advocating on the character's behalf" clause of Intimidate- act as a recruitment officer for a day or so. Bully an influential figure or the barkeep into advocating for you, and you suddenly have a villain who creates vast networks of underworld connections with little effort, look like anyone, gather huge amounts of incriminating evidence with little effort, while still being an unholy terror in melee combat. As for plot hooks and an overarching storyline, you have a city ruled by fear, where mysterious enforcers can appear out of nowhere and convert you to their cause against your will, and anyone who stands against them are murdered in the most brutal fashion possible by what appears to be a tribe of goliaths, despite none of them living in the city. Anyone who even stands against them is said to be cursed- even getting near the operatives cause people to become clumsy and unskilled, throwing detectives off their tracks and usually into their graves. As for why this is happening? No one knows- though none of this happened when a certain Goliath hero was acting as the sworn protector of the village...

As a sidenote, make sure to give him a Greater Dispelling Weapon. Your players are likely to bring in Mind Blank against this guy, and invalidating a large portion of his build without giving him a chance to get it back makes it a whole lot less interesting... plus, it becomes terrifying in general when melee characters lose their buffs mid-combat against a foe like this. Just as that one piece of information that the party didn't know about that shakes up the battle...

[ThiagoMartell]

And yet I have four games with my various groups, all run from 1st to 20th, without railroading. Why would I need to railroad to make a villain relevant?:smallconfused:

Well, if it works for you, it works for you. Knock yourself out.

[hoverfrog]

I was a player in a game once where the party freed a paladin from a time trap in a tomb far underground. This paladin was from the age of legends and was so good and just that he put us to shame. He even radiated an aura of good and a holy sword. We took up his quest to seek out the last artefacts of the lich, Vecna, and destroy them.

Upon finding the last artefact, the mummified hand of Vecna, the paladin told the party to carry the item to a certain location and cast it into the fire there. Which we dutifully did while he continued the quest. We were expecting powerful defenders, traps, monsters and such and a great explosion or the skies turning dark or something when the hand was destroyed but there was nothing. It wasn't world shaking or even noteworthy which of course got us worried.

We hurried after the paladin to find out what had gone wrong and found that he'd raised an army and was attacking the city that we hailed from using powerful magic. Magic that no paladin could possibly have.

We returned to the tomb to try to look for clues. We searched everywhere and found a gauntlet that matched the armour of the paladin with a bone hand inside it. Nearby was a skeleton in fine robes with a broken staff missing its hand. We figured that the paladin had chopped off the hand of the lich at the same time as he'd lost his own hand and for some insane reason, pain and anguish he'd tried to put the hand back but picked up the lich's hand instead. At this point began to be possessed by the lich but managed to put himself into a time trap before the lich could be released.

Armed with the knowledge that we were facing an arch lich in a high level paladin's body then fought our way through his camp and confronted him. He confirmed our conclusions and filled in a few blanks while we fought him and his summoned minions. Much hack and slash fun was had by all.

As for the build don't be too concerned about the rules as long as the story is good. Our paladin started as a paladin as far as we were concerned but gained arcane power over time as he changed into the lich.