DRAGONLANCE DnD 3,5 GAME

[dkist]

After all of years playing FR - BR - DS, we decide to play HERO again...

As the DM; tomorrow I will have my first DL game after 12 or 13 years..

I planned to play 349 AC - Summer - - 1st year of War of the Lance ;)

They start as L1 npc classed characters and get involved to war cause of their GOD infused SOULS

any ideas for Campaign :smallsmile:???

[Hecuba]

After all of years playing FR - BR - DS, we decide to play HERO again...

As the DM; tomorrow I will have my first DL game after 12 or 13 years..

I planned to play 349 AC - Summer - - 1st year of War of the Lance ;)

They start as L1 npc classed characters and get involved to war cause of their GOD infused SOULS

any ideas for Campaign :smallsmile:???

Playing in 349 is problematic: there is a known result of the current major conflict, and the player's characters aren't the ones that will resolve it.

As such, a good idea for the general structure of a campaign conflict is stopping something that would otherwise prevent the conflict from playing out as established.
I would play down Paladine vs. Takhisis, and instead emphasize some of the lesser deities. Perhaps, at a divine level, a conflict with Sargonnas trying to tip the scales in favor of Takhisis. Shinare or Majere might make good divine patrons to the party.

And I would choose a wording other than "GOD infused SOULS." First, that's not quite in keeping with the general tone of Dragonlance: Dragonlance is romantic fantasy and that is very much in the tone of mythic fantasy.

But the greater issue is that in 349, the gods are not acting as overtly as that implies. You might say instead that they are beginning to hear the whispers of the gods in their hearts.

[dkist]

Playing in 349 is problematic: there is a known result of the current major conflict, and the player's characters aren't the ones that will resolve it.

As such, a good idea for the general structure of a campaign conflict is stopping something that would otherwise prevent the conflict from playing out as established.
I would play down Paladine vs. Takhisis, and instead emphasize some of the lesser deities. Perhaps, at a divine level, a conflict with Sargonnas trying to tip the scales in favor of Takhisis. Shinare or Majere might make good divine patrons to the party.

And I would choose a wording other than "GOD infused SOULS." First, that's not quite in keeping with the general tone of Dragonlance: Dragonlance is romantic fantasy and that is very much in the tone of mythic fantasy.

But the greater issue is that in 349, the gods are not acting as overtly as that implies. You might say instead that they are beginning to hear the whispers of the gods in their hearts.

thanks for your reply Hecuba.

As a political power based DM I really forgot the soul of DL :(

Ok... I will take your advice ;)

Do you prefer any other time maybe 348 AC before the START of the WAR?

[Yajirobe]

First year of the War of the Lance?

A couple ideas:

- A cleric of Hiddukel (evil clerics returned for some centuries already, they are just secretive) estabilishes a small cell operation on Solamnia. The mission of this cell is to ensure that the Solamniacs continue to alienate the other races. Some agents are striving to estabilish and consolidate the power of Derek Crownguard. They know that Derek as Grandmaster will ensure that the prejudices of Solamniacs stay strong, the races shall not align on the Council of the Whitestone, and the single military force that may pose some resistance to the Dragonarmies shall crumble from the inside.
Lord Gunthar knows that there are some infiltration inside, and suspects Derek, but he has no evidence to back it up. The PCs are agents sent to investigate this suspicion. It would play like some prototype of the Clandestine Circle.

Derek is innocent on this case. His megalomania ensures that he stays oblivious to some "lucky events" that furthers his goal to become GM.



-Theatre of War on the Green and Black Dragonflights. It is the least explored parts of the War. Plenty of room. If you want to place it a few months later, you may play on the Kender insurrection on Goodlund.


- You may also want to look the Time of the Twins sourcebook and play on the version of the War that the Dragonarmies won.

- The PCs are members of a resistance in Saifhum that tries to fight Dragonarmies and Minotaur domination on the Blood Isles.


Sorry about the "vagueness" of some suggestions. I elaborated it on the fly and entirely by memory, not checking the development properly on sourcebooks.

[ThiagoMartell]

I don't like that idea about starting as NPC classes. Dragonlance is all about 'the enemy is more powerful' already, the player characters don't need any more nerfing.

[dkist]

First year of the War of the Lance?

A couple ideas:

- A cleric of Hiddukel (evil clerics returned for some centuries already, they are just secretive) estabilishes a small cell operation on Solamnia. The mission of this cell is to ensure that the Solamniacs continue to alienate the other races. Some agents are striving to estabilish and consolidate the power of Derek Crownguard. They know that Derek as Grandmaster will ensure that the prejudices of Solamniacs stay strong, the races shall not align on the Council of the Whitestone, and the single military force that may pose some resistance to the Dragonarmies shall crumble from the inside.
Lord Gunthar knows that there are some infiltration inside, and suspects Derek, but he has no evidence to back it up. The PCs are agents sent to investigate this suspicion. It would play like some prototype of the Clandestine Circle.

Derek is innocent on this case. His megalomania ensures that he stays oblivious to some "lucky events" that furthers his goal to become GM.




-Theatre of War on the Green and Black Dragonflights. It is the least explored parts of the War. Plenty of room. If you want to place it a few months later, you may play on the Kender insurrection on Goodlund.


- You may also want to look the Time of the Twins sourcebook and play on the version of the War that the Dragonarmies won.

- The PCs are members of a resistance in Saifhum that tries to fight Dragonarmies and Minotaur domination on the Blood Isles.


Sorry about the "vagueness" of some suggestions. I elaborated it on the fly and entirely by memory, not checking the development properly on sourcebooks.


Derek :) I hate him ;) but like the idea :smallsmile:



I don't like that idea about starting as NPC classes. Dragonlance is all about 'the enemy is more powerful' already, the player characters don't need any more nerfing.

its just for bonus ;) starting level 1 but npc level is free :smallcool:

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Also I have to ask... do NOBLES and ROYAL elves have special items like elven boots, cloaks etc?

[Yajirobe]

When I said Derek is innocent, I don't mean Derek is an Innocent. He should still be the prejudice ridden, ego-driven bastard that we all hate. He should still be a villain and a major nuisance because every divination for evil or trickery cast on him turns negative for lies or trickery.

The thing is, the PCs may bring his wrath upon them if they start attacking his assets and foiling the plans of "loyal and old friends and supporters that wish, as do I, to bring glory to the Knighthood!"

Derek should be a resourceful bastard, but not the main bad guy. That would be a "literary punishment" for Derek. In the grand scheme, the powerful lord of the Crownguards is a mere puppet.

[Hecuba]

If you're set on playing in the War of the Lance, it can be done.
Yajirobe's suggestions are great excelent starting points.

The key is that you need to keep the PCs away from the established plot: we already know who the heroes of that story are, and (while they were designed as PCs) they aren't your PCs.

With that, you need a conflict to resolve, and it can't be directly preventing the return of Takhisis. But if you're set on playing in the War of the Lance, you probably want to it to be at least related to that.

Just keep in mind you're walking a fine line-- this has less to do with the Dragonlance setting than weaving a new campaign into an established storyline.

[Yajirobe]

What do you mean by "having special items"?

You mean magic items? Tread carefully on giving on the handling of magic items for non-wizards or non-simpathizers.

Age of Despair up until the end ofthe war (one could argue that it extends until the end of the Blue Lady's War) is a low-magic setting. Clerics are absent (except for Evil ones, that are under a directive of secrecy imposed by the evil gods themselves) and mages are recluse inside their Towers. The populace fear and hate wizards. There are literal witch-burnings on some villages.


Nobles should have only family heirlooms and, most of the time, passive bonuses only. Some eccentric nobles might have some magical trinkets, but on most of the society it IS frowned upon. Elves, by their connection with the White Robes, might be an exception, but I'd see the non-wizard magic as utilitary (like the Silvanesti gardens) or as a showoff (On the 19th century, electricity was a novelty, so some nobles, to show off "scientific knowledge" would build electrical apparatus that would roast food or other silly stuff. A little like the nobles gathering on The Illusionist, when they try to figure out how Edward Norton did his tricks)

[dkist]

If you're set on playing in the War of the Lance, it can be done.
Yajirobe's suggestions are great excelent starting points.

The key is that you need to keep the PCs away from the established plot: we already know who the heroes of that story are, and (while they were designed as PCs) they aren't your PCs.

With that, you need a conflict to resolve, and it can't be directly preventing the return of Takhisis. But if you're set on playing in the War of the Lance, you probably want to it to be at least related to that.

Just keep in mind you're walking a fine line-- this has less to do with the Dragonlance setting than weaving a new campaign into an established storyline.

As a HIGH LEVELLED and OVERPOWERED settings DM, after Yajirobe suggestion my idea is; if my pc's can stop my main quest there will be no need for companions ;)



What do you mean by "having special items"?

You mean magic items? Tread carefully on giving on the handling of magic items for non-wizards or non-simpathizers.

Age of Despair up until the end ofthe war (one could argue that it extends until the end of the Blue Lady's War) is a low-magic setting. Clerics are absent (except for Evil ones, that are under a directive of secrecy imposed by the evil gods themselves) and mages are recluse inside their Towers. The populace fear and hate wizards. There are literal witch-burnings on some villages.


Nobles should have only family heirlooms and, most of the time, passive bonuses only. Some eccentric nobles might have some magical trinkets, but on most of the society it IS frowned upon. Elves, by their connection with the White Robes, might be an exception, but I'd see the non-wizard magic as utilitary (like the Silvanesti gardens) or as a showoff (On the 19th century, electricity was a novelty, so some nobles, to show off "scientific knowledge" would build electrical apparatus that would roast food or other silly stuff. A little like the nobles gathering on The Illusionist, when they try to figure out how Edward Norton did his tricks)

One of my pc's want to become ELVEN NOBLE ;) if he want in FR setting Evereskan Noble, I will give him ELVEN BOOTS - CLOAK - BOW and EVERESKAN armor :))

I am asking are there any SPESIFIC items for nobles alike ;)

[Yajirobe]

As a HIGH LEVELLED and OVERPOWERED settings DM, after Yajirobe suggestion my idea is; if my pc's can stop my main quest there will be no need for companions ;)




One of my pc's want to become ELVEN NOBLE ;) if he want in FR setting Evereskan Noble, I will give him ELVEN BOOTS - CLOAK - BOW and EVERESKAN armor :))

I am asking are there any SPESIFIC items for nobles alike ;)

Custom tailored? Hmmm... The only ones that come to mind are artifacts... Kith-Kanan's sword (that is in Tanis possession in 349AC) or the Starjewel.

I'd say that you can make a parallel with Evereskan nobles and Silvanesti or Qualinesti nobles. so you can just give him the same items.

[ThiagoMartell]

its just for bonus ;) starting level 1 but npc level is free :smallcool:

If their first level is the NPC level, I see that as a nerf.

[dkist]

If their first level is the NPC level, I see that as a nerf.

why?

here are same examples;

expert 1 - fighter 1 VS fighter 1

noble 1 + wizard 1 VS wizard

still look like nerf?

[ThiagoMartell]

why?

here are same examples;

expert 1 - fighter 1 VS fighter 1

noble 1 + wizard 1 VS wizard

still look like nerf?

You won't get your class skills multiplied by 4 at first level, looking like a nerf in most cases. Your example Fighter would have less hit points than if he started as a Fighter and he will need more experience to level up. Not counting multiclass penalties, which I assume you have houseruled away.
You probably meant Aristocrat instead of Noble, seeing as there is a PC class called Noble in Dragonlance.
If I have two hit dice, I'd much rather be a Wizard 2 than an Aristocrat 1/Wizard 1. I don't see the reason behind this anyway. Is it just becaus eyou want it? If that's so, there really is no point in arguing, because what you want is not going to change.

[dkist]

You won't get your class skills multiplied by 4 at first level, looking like a nerf in most cases. Your example Fighter would have less hit points than if he started as a Fighter and he will need more experience to level up. Not counting multiclass penalties, which I assume you have houseruled away.
You probably meant Aristocrat instead of Noble, seeing as there is a PC class called Noble in Dragonlance.
If I have two hit dice, I'd much rather be a Wizard 2 than an Aristocrat 1/Wizard 1. I don't see the reason behind this anyway. Is it just becaus eyou want it? If that's so, there really is no point in arguing, because what you want is not going to change.

hmm...

No if I will be sure about the nerf I can change it.

But I cannot see the " nerf " part. As you already guessed NPC classes cannot have multiclass penalties.

Really I gave these option to cover their weakness. Espicially skills and health.

noble + wizard = d8+d4 hit dice (4 more than standart 2th wizard)
expert + fighter = 6 skill + 2... (14 more than standart 2th fighter)

:smallfrown:

[ThiagoMartell]

But it's just an option? I mean, if someone wants to play a Wizard 2, can they do this?

[dkist]

But it's just an option? I mean, if someone wants to play a Wizard 2, can they do this?

yes but without point buy boost ;)

1th level npc + 1th level pc = 32 pb

2th level pc = 28 pb ;)

3th level pc = 25 pb =))

[ThiagoMartell]

yes but without point buy boost ;)

1th level npc + 1th level pc = 32 pb

2th level pc = 28 pb ;)

3th level pc = 25 pb =))

I would just take 3 levels in a PC class. It's simply better.
The other two options are 3000 XP behind it for some small bonus to ability scores. It's like LA, except worse.

[Yajirobe]

Thiago is correct...


Even though your assumption that an Aristocrat/Wizard (and he is right... Noble on DL is an entirely different class) would have more HP than a Wizard 2, but would have less spells than a Wizard 2, and on the long run, the extra 4 hp would be meaningless. On the short run, the extra spells would really be handy.

The other point he is correct is about the skill points... Since we talked about wizards, I'll show you two scenarios: one with an Arist/Wiz and one with an Adept/Wizard (Adept being the NPC class equivalent of both casters arcane and divine).

An Arist/Wiz would start with 4+int skills X4, more than a Wizard, but no Spellcraft and no Concentration on his class skill list. If he burns 8 points of skills on these two as CC skills (4 on each) he would still have 2 ranks on them at lv 1 and 3 ranks on lv 2, when he attains his first wizard level (or she could spend extra skill points from the wizard skill points. 7 points spent so far for 5 ranks). Effective waste of 4 points (2 per skill). If you account these on the overall skill points you earned, your level of Aristocrat never game 4+int points, but only INT points see? And you are a lv 2 PC with 1 CL

But let's go for the Adept route. First of all, Adepts, even though are the only NPC caster class, are divine casters. So you need WIS, a non-prime attribute for a WIZ. They do have Spellcraft and Concentration, but only 2+int. On lv 2, it's not really a crippling setup, but way weaker than 2 CL on Wizard. The 2 extra HP that Adept would get over wizard are even more meaningless than the Aristocrat one.

The extra 4 points for attributes you would get would mean, best case scenario, a 10 that becomes a 14. a +2 on an attribute that, if you could afford it to be a 10, is not even a secondary stat.

[Hecuba]

yes but without point buy boost ;)

1th level npc + 1th level pc = 32 pb

2th level pc = 28 pb ;)

3th level pc = 25 pb =))

If your goal is to buff the first level, you're probably better doing something like a free gestalt with NPC class of their choice, 1st level only. This will give them the ability to cover either a skill or HP gap fairly well without increasing ECL.

[dkist]

I would just take 3 levels in a PC class. It's simply better.
The other two options are 3000 XP behind it for some small bonus to ability scores. It's like LA, except worse.

thanks for the warning :smallbiggrin:


Thiago is correct...


Even though your assumption that an Aristocrat/Wizard (and he is right... Noble on DL is an entirely different class) would have more HP than a Wizard 2, but would have less spells than a Wizard 2, and on the long run, the extra 4 hp would be meaningless. On the short run, the extra spells would really be handy.

The other point he is correct is about the skill points... Since we talked about wizards, I'll show you two scenarios: one with an Arist/Wiz and one with an Adept/Wizard (Adept being the NPC class equivalent of both casters arcane and divine).

An Arist/Wiz would start with 4+int skills X4, more than a Wizard, but no Spellcraft and no Concentration on his class skill list. If he burns 8 points of skills on these two as CC skills (4 on each) he would still have 2 ranks on them at lv 1 and 3 ranks on lv 2, when he attains his first wizard level (or she could spend extra skill points from the wizard skill points. 7 points spent so far for 5 ranks). Effective waste of 4 points (2 per skill). If you account these on the overall skill points you earned, your level of Aristocrat never game 4+int points, but only INT points see? And you are a lv 2 PC with 1 CL

But let's go for the Adept route. First of all, Adepts, even though are the only NPC caster class, are divine casters. So you need WIS, a non-prime attribute for a WIZ. They do have Spellcraft and Concentration, but only 2+int. On lv 2, it's not really a crippling setup, but way weaker than 2 CL on Wizard. The 2 extra HP that Adept would get over wizard are even more meaningless than the Aristocrat one.

The extra 4 points for attributes you would get would mean, best case scenario, a 10 that becomes a 14. a +2 on an attribute that, if you could afford it to be a 10, is not even a secondary stat.

hmm :smalleek:


If your goal is to buff the first level, you're probably better doing something like a free gestalt with NPC class of their choice, 1st level only. This will give them the ability to cover either a skill or HP gap fairly well without increasing ECL.


I think this will solve my problems ;)

3 hours to game any "last second thoughts"

[dkist]

Game Report:

Our game started Haven Year: AC 347, Summer.

The PCs are created using point buy system 32 +5 inherent bonus.

1: Royal House Silvanesti born Elf Male - Noble 1 & Cleric 1
2: Human Noble Palanthas of Human Male - Noble 1 & Wizard 1
3: Human Male - Expert 1 & Rogue 1, son of General Store
4: Human Male - Expert 1 & Fighter 1, son of Blacksmith
5: Human Male - Warrior 1 & Fighter 1

The "1" is the owner of the inn at the Haven, the "3-4" were born in Haven and friend to "1". "2" on a trip to Tower of Wayreth. "5" is outlander who were from Nightlund and acting bodyguard of "2"

As you know; in AC 345, Seekers had a deal with Raistlin and had some problems. Our game started when Seekers are creating "fake" mirracles and aggressive actions to those who cannot believe them. By the way with donated money they becoming strong in politics and began to repleace important figures in the city such as city guard captain.

"1" is not happy with these changes because he was there for almost 80 years and had good dealings with non-seekers.

Anyway the action had started when 4 barbarians come to seek the help of Seekers and after a fight their leader kill and injured 20 defenders(bodyguards of the seeker + city guards and bar bodyguards) of Haven cause of a simple misunderstanding. At the same time some unknown power (Cleric of Chemosh disguise as Seeker) poisoned "1".

Cause of magical poison no one could heal "1" than CeC comes and publicly anounces to heal him. With "1" absence Seekers started to control the inn.

After a investigation and some random encounters barbarians are gone and their laeder and "3" is in Jail, "4" is searching for metal to make some money ( I do not know why) "2 and 5" are trying to find "1" and rescue "3" by using "2"s political power.

At the end of the game, they leave Haven with the help of a "mad" fighter / roque who sad, they are the chosens of the good God's (cause of the inherent bonus) as him. And they must find a way to awaken their powers and stop the coming war before started :smallamused:

So do you see any wrong to DL romance? And how could I continue?? Mad man or real chosens??