Headache of Legacy

[God Imperror]

I have been trying to understand weapons of legacy but I am failing so hard...

what's the difference between least legacy and greater legacy?

Both have the exact same wording:


Choose one item of legacy (or candidate item, if you are founding a legacy). If you meet the other prerequisites for wielding that item, you can use any of the item’s greater legacy abilities that are available to a character of your level.

[molten_dragon]

I have been trying to understand weapons of legacy but I am failing so hard...

what's the difference between least legacy and greater legacy?

Both have the exact same wording:

Where are you reading that? In the legacy feats section (pg 14-15), they're printed correctly.

Least legacy reads:


Choose one item of legacy (or candidate item, if founding a legacy). If you meet the other prerequisites for wielding that item, you can use any of the item's least legacy abilities that are available to a character of your level.

Greater Legacy reads:


Choose one item of legacy (or candidate item, if founding a legacy). If you meet the other prerequisites for wielding that item, you can use any of the item's greater legacy abilities that are available to a character of your level.

[RunicLGB]

I had trouble with this for a bit too, since no where in the book does it actually specify what the difference between least lesser and greater legacy abilities actually are.

What I came up with was that its the level of the ability compared to min level of the feats, so least abilities are from 5th-10th level, lesser is from 11th-16th, and greater covers legacy abilities 17+.



But someone correct me if im wrong.

[God Imperror]

At no point does it explain what's the difference between a least ability, a lesser ability and a greater ability.

I suppose that RunicLGB houserule is as good as any so I am probably going to go with that :smallsmile:

[ThiagoMartell]

Uh... all example legacy weapon list which abilities are least, lesser or greater.
The ability menus are also labeled least, lesser or greater.

[God Imperror]

:smallfrown:

I must be unable to read...

I will probably delete this soon


All the following are legacy item abilities of Bloodcrier’s
Hammer.
Earthseeker (Su): At 6th level and higher, while wielding Bloodcrier’s Hammer, you can detect any creature with the earth subtype within 60 feet. You must concentrate (a standard action) to do so. The hammer ignores any damage reduction an earth-subtype creature possesses.
Pathbreaker (Su): Beginning at 7th level, once per day when Bloodcrier’s Hammer is struck against a lock, lid, door, valve, portal, normal bars, shackles, chains, bolts, and so on, a mournful tone rings forth. The struck item opens 1 round later. Bloodcrier’s Hammer also automatically dispels a hold portal spell or even an arcane lock with a caster level lower than 15th. Each strike opens only one form of locking, so if a chest is chained, padlocked, locked, and arcane locked, it takes four strikes to open it. A silence spell negates this power.
Earthen Stature (Sp): You can change size while standing on solid earth or stone. Starting at 8th level, you can issue a command word to use enlarge person once per day (self only) as the spell. At 12th level, you can use this ability at will. Caster level 5th.
The Earth Provides (Su): At 9th level and higher, you need not eat or drink while underground or in any place with the earth-dominant elemental trait. Deny Earth’s Embrace (Su): At 10th level and higher, you need no longer fear the unforgiving crush of the earth after a fall. This ability acts exactly like a feather fall spell, and it is activated immediately if you fall more than 5 feet. Caster level 5th.
Stony Resistance (Su): At 15th level, you gain a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws.
Meld into Stone (Sp): Beginning at 16th level, as a swift action once per day, you can use meld into stone as the spell. Caster level 10th.
Terra Obscura (Su): At 17th level and higher, while you remain in contact with solid earth or stone, Bloodcrier’s Hammer cannot be detected remotely through scrying, remote viewing, or other means of divination, as if continually affected by the obscure object spell. Caster level 15th.
Wall of Stone (Sp): Beginning at 18th level, two times per day by holding Bloodcrier’s Hammer forth and speaking a command word, you can use wall of
stone as the spell. Caster level 15th.
Earthwalker’s Bane (Su): Starting at 19th level, in your hands Bloodcrier’s Hammer has an effective enhancement bonus +1 better than normal and deals
an extra 1d6 points of damage against any creature in contact with solid earth or stone.
Ignore Earth’s Clutch (Su): At 20th level and higher, you constantly gain the benefit of a freedom of movement spell while standing on solid earth or stone.
Caster level 15th.

I see the legacy abilities but I don't see which are least, lesser or great, sorry :smallredface:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Also note that you don't choose the feats as part of character progression. They're granted as bonus feats upon completeing the least, lesser, and greater legacy rituals.

[God Imperror]

:smallfrown:

I must be unable to read...

For example the Bloodcrier's Hammer abilities...

I will probably delete this soon


All the following are legacy item abilities of Bloodcrier’s Hammer.
Earthseeker (Su): At 6th level and higher, while wielding Bloodcrier’s Hammer, you can detect any creature with the earth subtype within 60 feet. You must concentrate (a standard action) to do so. The hammer ignores any damage reduction an earth-subtype creature possesses.
Pathbreaker (Su): Beginning at 7th level, once per day when Bloodcrier’s Hammer is struck against a lock, lid, door, valve, portal, normal bars, shackles, chains, bolts, and so on, a mournful tone rings forth. The struck item opens 1 round later. Bloodcrier’s Hammer also automatically dispels a hold portal spell or even an arcane lock with a caster level lower than 15th. Each strike opens only one form of locking, so if a chest is chained, padlocked, locked, and arcane locked, it takes four strikes to open it. A silence spell negates this power.
Earthen Stature (Sp): You can change size while standing on solid earth or stone. Starting at 8th level, you can issue a command word to use enlarge person once per day (self only) as the spell. At 12th level, you can use this ability at will. Caster level 5th.
The Earth Provides (Su): At 9th level and higher, you need not eat or drink while underground or in any place with the earth-dominant elemental trait. Deny Earth’s Embrace (Su): At 10th level and higher, you need no longer fear the unforgiving crush of the earth after a fall. This ability acts exactly like a feather fall spell, and it is activated immediately if you fall more than 5 feet. Caster level 5th.
Stony Resistance (Su): At 15th level, you gain a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws.
Meld into Stone (Sp): Beginning at 16th level, as a swift action once per day, you can use meld into stone as the spell. Caster level 10th.
Terra Obscura (Su): At 17th level and higher, while you remain in contact with solid earth or stone, Bloodcrier’s Hammer cannot be detected remotely through scrying, remote viewing, or other means of divination, as if continually affected by the obscure object spell. Caster level 15th.
Wall of Stone (Sp): Beginning at 18th level, two times per day by holding Bloodcrier’s Hammer forth and speaking a command word, you can use wall of
stone as the spell. Caster level 15th.
Earthwalker’s Bane (Su): Starting at 19th level, in your hands Bloodcrier’s Hammer has an effective enhancement bonus +1 better than normal and deals
an extra 1d6 points of damage against any creature in contact with solid earth or stone.
Ignore Earth’s Clutch (Su): At 20th level and higher, you constantly gain the benefit of a freedom of movement spell while standing on solid earth or stone.
Caster level 15th.

I see the legacy abilities but I don't see which are least, lesser or great, sorry :smallredface:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Also note that you don't choose the feats as part of character progression. They're granted as bonus feats upon completeing the least, lesser, and greater legacy rituals.

[God Imperror]

Also note that you don't choose the feats as part of character progression. They're granted as bonus feats upon completeing the least, lesser, and greater legacy rituals.

I realized that, thanks though, took me a while :smallbiggrin:

Sorry everyone for being so obtuse.

[tyckspoon]

Uh... all example legacy weapon list which abilities are least, lesser or greater.
The ability menus are also labeled least, lesser or greater.

They actually don't. I'm not sure if the distinction between least/leasser/greater is actually explicitly written anywhere in the book.. Weapons of Legacy is not terribly well-written. Inference and example allows us to determine that what Runic posted is probably what they meant- for example, Coral's Bite is mentioned to 'have no Greater Legacy abilities', and it's chart only goes up to 16th level. Similarly, in the Founding a Legacy/making your own Legacy Weapon section, it mentions that creating a Least Legacy ritual lets you choose abilities for your weapon from 5th-10th levels, Lesser Legacy opens 11-16, and Greater Legacy 17-20. But.. I have yet to find somewhere it explicitly says 'Least Legacies are 5-10, Lesser 11-16, Greater 17-20.' It's written as if the designer just assumes you know that.

[ThiagoMartell]

They actually don't. I'm not sure if the distinction between least/leasser/greater is actually explicitly written anywhere in the book.. Weapons of Legacy is not terribly well-written. Inference and example allows us to determine that what Runic posted is probably what they meant- for example, Coral's Bite is mentioned to 'have no Greater Legacy abilities', and it's chart only goes up to 16th level. Similarly, in the Founding a Legacy/making your own Legacy Weapon section, it mentions that creating a Least Legacy ritual lets you choose abilities for your weapon from 5th-10th levels, Lesser Legacy opens 11-16, and Greater Legacy 17-20. But.. I have yet to find somewhere it explicitly says 'Least Legacies are 5-10, Lesser 11-16, Greater 17-20.' It's written as if the designer just assumes you know that.
Yeah, I just went to reread it and it doesn't outright say it. However, just looking at the menus it becomes pretty obvious, doesn't it?

[God Imperror]

I tried to understand the examples before understanding the menus I guess :smalltongue:

And it wasn't really obvious to me.

[Answerer]

Weapons of Legacy is a terribly-written book; you shouldn't waste your time trying to decipher it. The mechanics contained therein are awful.

[God Imperror]

But I like the flavor and implications of a couple of the legacy weapons so I wanted to see how they worked mechanically to see if they were worth to include as items in a possible game.

Other than that they are probably going to be reworked/homebrewed as artifacts.

[Answerer]

You are massively better off using something simple and obvious (like a normal magic item that gets better over time without the player explicitly 'paying for it' though the difference in cost does come from his WBL), or using something like the Ancestral Relic feat from BoED.

The WoL mechanics are just atrocious.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You are massively better off using something simple and obvious (like a normal magic item that gets better over time without the player explicitly 'paying for it' though the difference in cost does come from his WBL), or using something like the Ancestral Relic feat from BoED.

The WoL mechanics are just atrocious.

Well, you could just say "no penalties for having a legacy item" and that'd make it pretty decent right there.

[ThiagoMartell]

Well, you could just say "no penalties for having a legacy item" and that'd make it pretty decent right there.

Yeah, that's what everyone I know does in their games. The best idea about legacy items are the rituals anyway.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Yeah, that's what everyone I know does in their games. The best idea about legacy items are the rituals anyway.

Eh, I don't really like the rituals. Either they're annoying side quests, or the campaign revolves around the item, and therefore the character that has it.

[ThiagoMartell]

Eh, I don't really like the rituals. Either they're annoying side quests, or the campaign revolves around the item, and therefore the character that has it.
They are always relatively minor, I've never seen it taking much game time. It's very nice to see a character unveiling the story behind the item, and the rituals that require traveling only show up after teleport is available.
I'm a big fan of sidequests, though, so there is that.

[Uhtred]

I give Legacy weapons to first time players, penalty-free, with rituals. I do not, however, tell them that they have a Legacy weapon, nor what the ritual is to unlock the weapon's abilities; I just build in the opportunity for those rituals to be relevant and if the player takes it, he takes it. If not, no harm, no foul. I do it for first timers because the world of enchantments is big and scary and complicated for a n00b, and having a weapon that levels as they do is just easier, I've found. It simplifies things and prevents them from combing supplements for hours looking at enchantments the way my experienced players do.