Fight Defensively, Run Around

[shadow_archmagi]

So, these are two tactics which I always notice there are a lot of feats for, but I've never seen many builds that take advantage of them.

I realize that they're suboptimal compared to standing in place and full attacking, but I was curious as to how suboptimal they were- Does anyone have any experience playing a defensive/mobile (or both at the same time) character?

[SilverLeaf167]

Well, I don't personally have any actual experience other than playing a DMPC in an extremely shortlived campaign who pounced around and had an insane amount of attacks (we would have needed to roll something like 20 damage dice per turn so we just used averages), but that's more like übercharging.

Now, I vaguely remember some rather popular build that focused on getting bonuses from fighting defensively, but it probably had something to do with the feat Robilar's Gambit (PHB II). In a somewhat subverted manner of fighting defensively, it gives enemies bonuses on attacks against you, but allows you to make an attack of opportunity every time they attack. Though it's technically "fighting recklessly", the best use for it is to pump your AC high enough that the enemies still can't hit you and you get to attack them even more.

Also, there are some builds similar to the one utilized by a certain ogre in OotS: using a reach weapon to attack and move away whenever an enemy tries to approach you. This can be done in a couple of ways.

I'm sure someone else can elaborate on these.

[Anodai]

From my experience, characters who are already dishing out tons of damage sometimes try to use defense or mobility as a secondary focus. They kill things really quickly already so they might as well focus on their own survivability, or on getting to other things that they want to kill faster so that they can kill them sooner.

[ThiagoMartell]

There is guide for fighting defensively. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178445)

[eggs]

Fighting Defensively isn't necessarily awful. For instance, I had a gestalt Duelist//Psion build that milked Dancing with Shadows and Stormguard Warrior for crazy results (huge damage bonuses by defensive fighting to set up combat rhythm in turtle mode, then huge attack bonuses by using Dancing with Shadows to shift the Duelist's AC boosts into its attack rolls).

I could probably count the number of times I've seen Run used in a game on one hand.

[Eldariel]

So, these are two tactics which I always notice there are a lot of feats for, but I've never seen many builds that take advantage of them.

I realize that they're suboptimal compared to standing in place and full attacking, but I was curious as to how suboptimal they were- Does anyone have any experience playing a defensive/mobile (or both at the same time) character?

If you get them as additional bonuses, they're good options. Well, they're good options anyways; not always applicable but sometimes you are being focused and pretty low and need that extra AC. Actually investing in them tho? Well, that makes you highly specialized, at least beyond Combat Expertise+Improved mebbe.

Like, a melee character needs means to output something relevant and most commonly, that means damage (zone control being the second most common). All resources directed towards these options are resources not directed towards generating presence.


I once had a Dervish; they get Elaborate Parry on level 7. Made him damn hard to hit; he was always fighting defensively with sufficient To Hit bonuses to still hit. It was a great boon but not the focus. Once he fought with a Sorc Gish with massive AC of his own; all the defense stacking enabled reaching a point where both only hit on 20s and made for a relatively even fight (Swiftblade was focused on fighting).

[gorfnab]

Here is a Fighting Defensively build I came up with a while ago.

Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Deceptive Strike (PHBII) Monk - Camendine Monk, Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense, B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available pick up EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (pre-errata version if possible) or Versatile Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick (may need to rearrange later feats). If traits are available pick up Cautious.

The Monk and Swashbuckler levels (levels 1 through 5) can be switched around to taste. I personally like Swash 1/ Monk 2/ Swash 2