[3.5, Feat, PEACH] Using Potions Like a Pro, and More

[Flickerdart]

Everyone knows that a halfling is a deadly combatant with a rock. However, few know of a similar dwarven proficiency with a broken bottle of ale, which just goes to show that nobody escapes such an encounter alive. Over the years, this series of disparate techniques has been perfected into a deadly fighting style.

Bottle Battling [Fighter]
You are skilled in an unorthodox way of fighting, combining weapon strikes with maneuvers that involve liquids.
Prerequisites: BAB +5, Quick Draw, Constitution 15+

Benefits: A character with this feat gains access to three tactical maneuvers:

Never Fight Thirsty: With a bottle in one hand and a blade in the other, you can always take a swig instead of a swing.
When holding a bottle or vial (such as a potion, an oil, or an alcoholic beverage), you may use it as an attack action rather than as a standard action. Additionally, potions and oils count as weapons for the purposes of the Quick Draw feat, if you have it.

Sudden Shank: You might look like a harmless drunk, but you're a single motion away from being armed while your opponent struggles to get glass shards out of their face.
When holding a bottle or vial, you may use it as an improvised dagger without the associated non-proficiency penalty. If the bottle contained a substance with an effect (such as a vial of alchemist's fire, or a poison bottle) then the first successful hit shatters the bottle, expending its contents and affecting the target with the effect. All other conditions for the effect apply; for example, if the substance is an injury poison and the target took no damage from the attack (due to damage reduction, for instance), then it is not affected.

Spit-take: If necessary, you can spit the liquid you're drinking into the eyes of your opponents, though it saddens you to waste a perfectly good drink in this fashion.
When drinking a substance (such as a potion), instead of benefiting from its usual effects, you may spit out the substance at a creature (a ranged touch attack with 15ft range increments) as part of the action used to drink it. On a successful hit, the creature is blinded for one round unless it makes a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Constitution modifier). Regardless of the save, it's dazzled for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution modifier +3.
Contact poisons and other harmful substances used in this manner have their usual effects upon both you and your target. If the substance is a poison, the DC is reduced by 2. Non-contact poisons have no effect on the target, but they do affect you.

[LordErebus12]

Spit-take: If necessary, you can spit the liquid you're drinking into the eyes of your opponents, though it saddens you to waste a perfectly good drink in this fashion.

When drinking a substance (such as a potion), instead of benefiting from its usual effects, you may spit out the substance at a creature (a ranged touch attack with 15ft range increments) as part of the action used to drink it. On a successful hit, the creature is blinded for one round unless it makes a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Constitution modifier). Regardless of the save, it's dazzled for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution modifier +3.

Contact poisons and other harmful substances used in this manner have their usual effects upon both you and your target. If the substance is a poison, the DC is reduced by 2. Non-contact poisons have no effect on the target, but they do affect you.

I think this needs several edits...

One: contact poisons used with this method of attack also poison yourself, whether you have the Poison Use ability or not, since this prevents accidental poisoning, not purposely putting it in your mouth. The only way to not be affected in this case is to have immunity to that poison.

Two: The save against being poisoned should be a reflex save, not fortitude... the opponent can have an attempt to dodge the incoming poison to prevent being hit (and blinded)... then they make the save against the poison, as normal...

Three: typical thrown incriments are 10 ft. meaning it needs to be 10 ft., with a -2 on attack rolls for every 10 ft. beyond that initial range. This treats this ranged touch attack like a thrown weapon (in a way it is) and it can be treated as such for feats and class abilities. Also, do you know anyone with enough force to actually spray liquid out to 15 ft. with nothing but your mouth and maintain any form of accuracy? id say like 5 ft.... 10 ft. is extremely generous.

Four: ever thought of a 10 ft. burst? since its sprayed in a mist, it could spread out a bit and hit multiple, close targets. also, the have shouldnt alter... it should be as the poison's save.

Five: the reflex save should be based on DC 10 + half of the Spitter's Class Level + Spitter's Dexerity modifier.

Six: also, this should be partially treated like a gaze attack, averting your eyes or wearing goggles can grant immunity to the effect.

[LordErebus12]

Spitting Mist: If necessary, you can spit the liquid you're drinking into the air, attempting to hit the eyes of your opponents, though it saddens you to waste a perfectly good drink in this fashion.

When drinking a substance (such as a alchemical flask or poison), instead of suffering from its usual effects, you may spit out the substance at any creature within a 10 ft. burst as part of the action used to drink it. Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Dex modifier). On a successful hit, the creature is blinded for one round and must make any saves against any additional effects, such as a fortitude save to resist poisoning from contact poisons.

Contact poisons and other harmful substances used in this manner have their usual effects upon both you and your target. Non-contact poisons have no effect on the target, but they do affect you if they are ingested poisons, however the DC is reduced by 2.

[Flickerdart]

I think this needs several edits...

One: contact poisons used with this method of attack also poison yourself, whether you have the Poison Use ability or not, since this prevents accidental poisoning, not purposely putting it in your mouth. The only way to not be affected in this case is to have immunity to that poison.
Uh, yeah. If you're putting poison in your mouth then it's usually a good idea to be immune to it.



Two: The save against being poisoned should be a reflex save, not fortitude... the opponent can have an attempt to dodge the incoming poison to prevent being hit (and blinded)... then they make the save against the poison, as normal...
The dodging is handled by the ranged touch attack already. Single-target effects typically don't have a Reflex save, anyway.



Three: typical thrown incriments are 10 ft. meaning it needs to be 10 ft., with a -2 on attack rolls for every 10 ft. beyond that initial range. This treats this ranged touch attack like a thrown weapon (in a way it is) and it can be treated as such for feats and class abilities. Also, do you know anyone with enough force to actually spray liquid out to 15 ft. with nothing but your mouth and maintain any form of accuracy? id say like 5 ft.... 10 ft. is extremely generous.
Why would I make a feat that lets people do something they can basically already do? Also, since it doesn't say the action is a thrown weapon, it in no way benefits from things that affect thrown weapons. As for range increments, what's "typical" for thrown weapons is irrelevant.



Four: ever thought of a 10 ft. burst? since its sprayed in a mist, it could spread out a bit and hit multiple, close targets. also, the have shouldnt alter... it should be as the poison's save.

There's already an item that does this.



Five: the reflex save should be based on DC 10 + half of the Spitter's Class Level + Spitter's Dexerity modifier.

Why? There's like...one Dexterity-based DC in the entire game.



Six: also, this should be partially treated like a gaze attack, averting your eyes or wearing goggles can grant immunity to the effect.
That's also part of the ranged touch attack. A gaze attack is constant, not one-use, so this is really nothing like a gaze attack at all.

[LordErebus12]

Uh, yeah. If you're putting poison in your mouth then it's usually a good idea to be immune to it.


The dodging is handled by the ranged touch attack already. Single-target effects typically don't have a Reflex save, anyway.

fair enough

Why would I make a feat that lets people do something they can basically already do? Also, since it doesn't say the action is a thrown weapon, it in no way benefits from things that affect thrown weapons. As for range increments, what's "typical" for thrown weapons is irrelevant.

fair enough

There's already an item that does this.

whatever, there is an item for everything...

Why? There's like...one Dexterity-based DC in the entire game.

Based on the accuracy of the user, constitution would have NO play what so ever in this effect, other than to resist the poison effect. the irritation from an eye full would effect you without a save if it hits.

That's also part of the ranged touch attack. A gaze attack is constant, not one-use, so this is really nothing like a gaze attack at all.

I meant the gaze attack comment to refer to averting one's gaze... not a gaze attack in specific.

also, i disagree with adding Constitution into the dazzled effect, for one: thats messed up, broken, and lacks presence with other similar effects.

[Flickerdart]

also, i disagree with adding Constitution into the dazzled effect, for one: thats messed up, broken, and lacks presence with other similar effects.
I take it you have some examples of "other similar effects" with which this "lacks presence". As far as I'm concerned, having the lung power to project a glob of liquid great distances is definitely Constitution, and all of the poison-spitting feats (Spit Poison, Spit Venom, Vow of the Spider Queen) are ranged touch attacks with Constitution based DCs.

[LordErebus12]

I take it you have some examples of "other similar effects" with which this "lacks presence". As far as I'm concerned, having the lung power to project a glob of liquid great distances is definitely Constitution, and all of the poison-spitting feats (Spit Poison, Spit Venom, Vow of the Spider Queen) are ranged touch attacks with Constitution based DCs.

if it makes sense to you, im not here to debate it, just trying to help balance it. wasnt aware of the poison spitting feats. good otherwise.

[Answerer]

Prerequisites: BAB +5, Quick Draw, Constitution 15+
BAB req seems unnecessarily high. The feat doesn't seem to justify it. +3 seems better to me.


Never Fight Thirsty: With a bottle in one hand and a blade in the other, you can always take a swig instead of a swing.
When holding a bottle or vial (such as a potion, an oil, or an alcoholic beverage), you may use it as an attack action rather than as a standard action. Additionally, potions and oils count as weapons for the purposes of the Quick Draw feat, if you have it.
...really, I feel like this is how such items should have been to begin with, but that's neither here nor there.


Sudden Shank: You might look like a harmless drunk, but you're a single motion away from being armed while your opponent struggles to get glass shards out of their face.
When holding a bottle or vial, you may use it as an improvised dagger without the associated non-proficiency penalty. If the bottle contained a substance with an effect (such as a vial of alchemist's fire, or a poison bottle) then the first successful hit shatters the bottle, expending its contents and affecting the target with the effect. All other conditions for the effect apply; for example, if the substance is an injury poison and the target took no damage from the attack (due to damage reduction, for instance), then it is not affected.
Seems incredibly niche, but it does make sense.


Spit-take: If necessary, you can spit the liquid you're drinking into the eyes of your opponents, though it saddens you to waste a perfectly good drink in this fashion.
When drinking a substance (such as a potion), instead of benefiting from its usual effects, you may spit out the substance at a creature (a ranged touch attack with 15ft range increments) as part of the action used to drink it. On a successful hit, the creature is blinded for one round unless it makes a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Constitution modifier). Regardless of the save, it's dazzled for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution modifier +3.
Contact poisons and other harmful substances used in this manner have their usual effects upon both you and your target. If the substance is a poison, the DC is reduced by 2. Non-contact poisons have no effect on the target, but they do affect you.
Strictly speaking, there are many toxins that are safe to ingest, but dangerous to get in your bloodstream (injury poisons, in D&D parlance). This is why you can suck snake venom out of a wound (for the record, this is not actually recommended first aid for a snakebite). Even plenty of actual poisons (what D&D calls an ingested poison; technically the word "poison" only refers to toxins that are ingested) can be safely held in the mouth since it won't get absorbed there (alcohol is an interesting case of a poison that will enter the bloodstream through the mouth).

Just food for thought; mechanically this seems fine.


Overall, this is cool, but doesn't seem worth a feat to me. I feel like these are mostly options I would not be using every day. Potions and poisons are already rather expensive.


this needs [...] should be [...] meaning it needs [...] should be [...] should be
I think you seriously "need" to reconsider your wording. While your input is, I'm sure, appreciated, your post comes off as extremely demanding. You're welcome to make suggestions, but telling the OP what he should or needs to do is just rude, IMO.

[LordErebus12]

I think you seriously "need" to reconsider your wording. While your input is, I'm sure, appreciated, your post comes off as extremely demanding. You're welcome to make suggestions, but telling the OP what he should or needs to do is just rude, IMO.

didnt mean it like that, i agree and will take your advice with good will. I will attempt to seem more polite.