pigeon bomber is their something im missing

[awa]

the build is a warlock to create bird zombies.
use corpse crafter feats so your zombies explode on death.
have birds slam themselves into the ground killing themselves.
at 6th level your doing 12d6 dam save for half, no sr in a 10 foot blast.
also since it's not an attack you can do it while invisible

is their some part of this im not getting

[Deophaun]

Destructive Retribution feat:


... create with any necromancy spell releases...

Warlocks use invocations, not spells.

[limejuicepowder]

the build is a warlock to create bird zombies.
use corpse crafter feats so your zombies explode on death.
have birds slam themselves into the ground killing themselves.
at 6th level your doing 12d6 dam save for half, no sr in a 10 foot blast.
also since it's not an attack you can do it while invisible

is their some part of this im not getting

Unfortunately warlocks cannot use normal metamagic feats (I'm assuming corpse crafting feats are metamagic, I'm not familiar with them).

If it did work though, that would be awesome. Powerful and stylish. I might just Rule of Cool this in to a BBEG.

[Keld Denar]

Needs more Chicken Infested flaws. Take a level of Commoner to increase your power to infinite levels!

[awa]

chicken are 50 for 1 gold piece just caste the spell into your bag of holding no need for a level in commoner.

its not meta magic i thought invocations counted as spells in some cases but i don't actually own complete arcane so im not sure

[Deophaun]

...his invocations are spell-like abilities, not spells.
Complete Arcane, pg 8

Doesn't work.

[Snowbluff]

Complete Arcane, pg 8

Doesn't work.


Debatable. The Dead Walk creates undead as if you had made the using the Animate Dead spell. So, are Corpsecrafter feats allowed to affect zombies made by animate dead... or... does it have to be the actual spell?

[Deophaun]

Debatable. The Dead Walk creates undead as if you had made the using the Animate Dead spell. So, are Corpsecrafter feats allowed to affect zombies made by animate dead... or... does it have to be the actual spell?

I quoted it in my first post. It's any undead created by a "necromancy spell." The Dead Walk is not a spell, it's a spell-like ability, so it does not qualify.

Edit: It's also not "as if" you used the animate dead spell, but "as" the animate dead spell. There's actually a big difference.

[candycorn]

Debatable:


A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell

Does the ruling on whether Corpsecrafter affects this SLA have anything to do with its V,S, or M component? Does it relate to its focus or XP cost? Does it involve its mental activation, or is it dependent on Armor use? Is the time required to use it relevant to the ruling? Does the ability's restrictions on counterspelling have anything to do with the ruling?

If the ruling for "no, it doesn't work" doesn't have something to do with the above, then by RAW, it functions exactly like a spell. This means that if a spell could trigger or apply an ability, then so could this.

[Rejakor]

Yeah, it says twice as the spell, and spell-likes have that specific line about in all other ways being like the spell.

I'd come down on the RAW side of it being legal.


And if we're not talking RAW, there's certainly nothing broken about it and it's an awesome concept so.

[Snowbluff]

Debatable:



Does the ruling on whether Corpsecrafter affects this SLA have anything to do with its V,S, or M component? Does it relate to its focus or XP cost? Does it involve its mental activation, or is it dependent on Armor use? Is the time required to use it relevant to the ruling? Does the ability's restrictions on counterspelling have anything to do with the ruling?

If the ruling for "no, it doesn't work" doesn't have something to do with the above, then by RAW, it functions exactly like a spell. This means that if a spell could trigger or apply an ability, then so could this.


Yeah, it says twice as the spell, and spell-likes have that specific line about in all other ways being like the spell.

I'd come down on the RAW side of it being legal.


And if we're not talking RAW, there's certainly nothing broken about it and it's an awesome concept so.

Oh yeah~! :smallsmile:

Can I get a highfive over here?!

[limejuicepowder]

Here's my question though: Destruction Retribution is based on the HD of the undead creature. Where are you going to find a 24 HD pigeon?

Edit: I suppose you could summon a squadron of 12 pigeons and control them to suicide in one spot, adding up to 12d6. This has the added benefit of being able to break up the damage to different locations.

That would actually be an awesome chassis to make the Naruto character Deidara. Warlock invocations would handle the rest of the ninja powers.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I am guessing he is using 12 1 HD pigeons

[Rejakor]

Profession (Ridiculously Hardy Pigeon Breeder)

[GreenSerpent]

I wonder if you could use the Mob rules to create a Flock of Pidgeons...

[Aemoh87]

This thread is HAWT. I am building one of these.

Is there a dependable way to get birds?

[Madara]

As for the question as to applying to Spell-like,

What about the Pale Necromancer, published in the same book, I think we can agree that RAI would have the Corpsecrafter feat apply to the Undead Minionmaster. And the RAW was pointed out earlier.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I wonder if you could use the Mob rules to create a Flock of Pidgeons...

Now that I think so using the Murder of Crows stats from ToM could be a good option.

[Snowbluff]

Here's my question though: Destruction Retribution is based on the HD of the undead creature. Where are you going to find a 24 HD pigeon?

Well, you start with a warbeast pigeon...

[awa]

chickens are super cheap at 50 a gp

[KillianHawkeye]

So is the Warlock commanding his undead pidgeons to just fall from a certain height? I'm envisioning them dive bombing into the ground, but I don't think there are really rules for that sort of collision besides the fallling rules.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You can make them target squares (AC 5) next to your enemies.

[awa]

push come to shove just use falling rules
also add boost if your undead your pigeon bombs are also free healing

on very dangerous foes use a wand of unliving weapon to boost your damge

[ThiagoMartell]

May I add this to the Warlock handbook? :smallbiggrin:

[awa]

id be honored

edit as creatures they wont need an attack roll to slam into the ground.

a extra bonus is you can control 4 times your hit dice in undead even if you can only create twice your hit dice with one casting so your first round strike is going to be double strength.

[Piggy Knowles]

If the DM did decide that the warlock's SLA didn't count as a "necromancy spell" for the purposes of the feat, Fell Animate would be another nice way of going about this.

As far as I know the only 0-level necromancy spell that deals damage is a cleric spell, which means that a cleric would do it soonest - a human cleric with Corpsecrafter, Destructive Retribution and Fell Animate as feats could use Fell Animate inflict minor wounds starting at level 5 to CDG birds or bats for his kamikaze bird army. Of course, you'd have to get them down to -9 HP exactly, which is a bit of a pain.

A wizard doesn't AFAIK have any damaging level 0 spells, so that means that it would have to apply to a level 1 spell, meaning it would require either waiting until level 7 when 4th-level spells come into play or applying some sort of metamagic reducer. On the other hand, you'd have a much easier time with Fell Animate chill touch (or parching touch), since it deals somewhat better damage and gives you multiple uses per casting.

Arcane Thesis would mean that it could be done by 6th-level, although honestly, I'd just wait until 7th-level rather than blowing a feat on Arcane Thesis for a somewhat subpar spell. Better to save it for something that can get some nice play throughout the game, like kelgore's grave mist. But if it's important to do it that early, it's an option.

I'd probably do a wizard with the following feat set-up:

1- Tomb-Tainted Soul, Corpsecrafter, Destructive Retribution
3- Stitched-Flesh Familiar
6- Fell Animate
9- Arcane Thesis (Kelgore's Grave Mist)
12- Fell Drain

...and fill in the rest as you'd like.

Tomb-Tainted Soul and Stitched Flesh Familiar would be there for flavor, but also so that I could walk around surrounded by my undead birds without fear of someone hitting me with an AoE spell and causing me (or my familiar) to die from all the exploding pigeons.

[Augmental]

A wizard doesn't AFAIK have any damaging level 0 spells,

Ray of Frost and Acid Splash are 0th level.

[Piggy Knowles]

Ray of Frost and Acid Splash are 0th level.

Neither of which trigger Destructive Retribution, which requires a necromancy spell.

[Keld Denar]

A NaenHoon Dread Necromancer could use their pseudo-DMM ability to cast Fell Animate Chill Touches, allowing them to animate CL chicken zombies per casting, 2 castings per day. This is available as early as level 1 with flaws.

An Illumian DN with a couple of days of down time could build up quite the "Squawk and Awe" strike squad. A higher level one could reload in a day.

[Piggy Knowles]

A NaenHoon Dread Necromancer could use their pseudo-DMM ability to cast Fell Animate Chill Touches, allowing them to animate CL chicken zombies per casting, 2 castings per day. This is available as early as level 1 with flaws.

An Illumian DN with a couple of days of down time could build up quite the "Squawk and Awe" strike squad. A higher level one could reload in a day.

Minor nitpick - doesn't come online until level 2, based on how Illumian sigils work. But yeah, that would work quite well.

[Keld Denar]

Oh, right. I looked up DN to make sure they get Rebuke at 1, but forgot about the Illumian part. Doh. Good catch. Still, level 2 gives you 2 chicken zombies per casting, or 4 chicken zombies per day, assuming you have at least a 16 Cha (which you should, if you are a DN).

[panaikhan]

People keep quoting chickens.
Chickens will not be doing much dive-bombing, unless you are launching them from a trebuchet.

I do like the idea though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

People keep quoting chickens.
Chickens will not be doing much dive-bombing, unless you are launching them from a trebuchet.

I do like the idea though.

It is due chickens being either quite cheap or even free (Chicken infested flaw, wheb you draw anuthing there is a 50% chance of getting a chicken).

[awa]

some breeds of chicken can fly and eventualy our warlock will also be flying so the chickens only have to aim themselves at the ground.

[Thalnawr]

some breeds of chicken can fly and eventualy our warlock will also be flying so the chickens only have to aim themselves at the ground.
Or just be aimed at the ground by the Warlock, similar to the Shrink Item bombing trick.

[Piggy Knowles]

According to Wikipedia, pigeons leave the nest between 7 and 28 days after hatching, and have a fairly short incubation period. A couple of breeding pairs and a few months, combined with an OK Handle Animal check, should give you a pretty decent army of birds.

The quail would be even faster. From hatching to breeding maturity is only five weeks, and under ideal conditions, a quail will lay 300 eggs per year. Quail should not be too hard to find, either - it might be a little bit more expensive than the chicken for your initial outlay, but you'd get back better returns in the end, since you're not worried about things like the amount of meat per bird.

Tits and chickadees can also lay an extraordinarily high number of eggs - the Rufous-Vented Tit of the Himalayas often lays 14 eggs in a sitting - and are members of the passerine family, which boasts the lowest incubation period among the bird families. You might have more trouble just buying them, but hiring a ranger to breed them shouldn't be too bad. Hey, the black-capped chickadee is one of the most common birds in North America, and it lays 6-8 eggs in a clutch, with an 11 day incubation period and only 12 to 16 days until they are mature enough to leave the nest.

So if you want to get into breeding, there are other options beyond just carrying around a bag of zombie chickens and lobbing them at your enemies. If you want to stick to your original dream of having a pigeon army, you can certainly do it, or replace pigeon with quail for a similarly sized bird with more frequent breeding.

And then there's the ultimate army of chickadee-struction. Who doesn't fear being beset upon by multitudes of tiny airbone exploding zombie tufted titmouses and red-throated warblers?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Tufted_Titmouse-27527-2.jpg/320px-Tufted_Titmouse-27527-2.jpg

Come on - tell me this isn't the face of evil!

[awa]

chickens are in the phb that's why they get the love

[Karoht]

the build is a warlock to create bird zombies.
use corpse crafter feats so your zombies explode on death.
have birds slam themselves into the ground killing themselves.
at 6th level your doing 12d6 dam save for half, no sr in a 10 foot blast.
also since it's not an attack you can do it while invisible

is their some part of this im not getting
Bear in mind that the damage is negative energy if I remember correctly. It is easily negated by Deathward, and a similar armor enchantment. Which, if your foes know you are coming, would be stupid NOT to have these kinds of protection at some point. Be prepared to deal with that eventuality.
On the other hand, take Tomb Tainted Soul, and heal yourself with them. Also, other undead already heal up via negative energy as well. It is handy enough on your basic skeletons and zombies and the like, never mind the better undead you can pull out. One of them dies? Heals his buddies, and they continue to push onward.

[awa]

of course but your still a warlock all you've spent is 2 feats and one invocation to get that trick even with out it you still can use zombies as meat shields while you shoot away with your elderich blast