How's this for a combo of level 4 and 5 spells?

[danzibr]

Short story: Solid Fog, Daltim's Fiery Tentacles, Vortex of Teeth.

Long story: The party is me, a Bard 9/Sublime Chord 1 (DM allowed it), a Favored Soul, Fighter and Barbarian.

I just took Sublime Chord 1 and get to pick 3 level 4 spells and 1 level 5 spell. I also got a Belt of Battle (along with some stuff which should help me to usually go first).

We're quite unoptimized. The Favored Soul doesn't use her spells very well, using them mostly for healz.

Basically, I was looking for some utility/battlefield control spells. The idea is to first turn use Solid Fog, if it looks like it'll be tough use Belt of Battle to also do Daltim's Fiery Tentacles, then also do Vortex of Teeth.

Any suggestions? I also took Freedom of Movement.

[Last Laugh]

Where is daltim's fiery tentacles from?

Solid fog is nice, Vortex of teeth tacks on damage hooray!

The only thing I would be concerned about is blowing through 2-3 high level spells an encounter. You may need to rest in between every fight, and that can get old.

Solid fog + freedom of movement barbarian sounds nice.

[Rejakor]

I'm guessing Daltim's is a Evard's Black Tentacles with added damage?

The Solid Fog + Evard's + optional Vortex of Teeth is a really old and well known spell combo, and is regarded as overkill by most people.

[danzibr]

Shining South for the tentacles. Evard's plus CL fire damage.

The burning too many spells shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the replies! My actual concern is I might need more variety of spells.

[Randomguy]

You don't even really need to add on vortex of teeth, except maybe in boss fights: Just use black tentacles and then have everyone plink at them with ranged weapons until they die.

[Rejakor]

Evard's solves so many problems on it's own.

Plus it's just hilarity when enemies get out of an evard's/solid fog and the party fighter just knockbacks them straight back in.

That said, i've always liked the 'just as planned' wizards that don't bother to use spells and just win via clever play and possibly an occasional grease. 'What, you think that the sole use of being clever is exploding, burning, chopping, freezing, and trapping mindless monsters? Think again.'

[Slipperychicken]

That said, i've always liked the 'just as planned' wizards that don't bother to use spells and just win via clever play and possibly an occasional grease. 'What, you think that the sole use of being clever is exploding, burning, chopping, freezing, and trapping mindless monsters? Think again.'

You've got to explain this one to me. How does a Wizard win without spells? Shooting people with his d10 crossbow, half BAB, and mediocre Dex?

[danzibr]

You've got to explain this one to me. How does a Wizard win without spells? Shooting people with his d10 crossbow, half BAB, and mediocre Dex?
When I read that I was kind of thinking... Grease in the eyes?

[Slipperychicken]

When I read that I was kind of thinking... Grease in the eyes?

Creatures aren't valid targets for Grease. Eyes are not separate objects.

[danzibr]

Creatures aren't valid targets for Grease. Eyes are not separate objects.
It was just a sad attempt at humor on my part.

[Rejakor]

You've got to explain this one to me. How does a Wizard win without spells? Shooting people with his d10 crossbow, half BAB, and mediocre Dex?

Essentially just clever play.

Doing things like playing factions against each other or hiring experts in what you're about to do before the other players even realize it's necessary - a wayfinder for a maze, or an aberration hunting ranger underground surrounded by aberrations.

The only thing a wizard has to help with this is high knowledge checks (Kn: Local is so amazing), but it's a wizard trope that you don't really get in DnD so much that is pretty awesome.

Ideally, this wizard stands in the back, congratulates the fighters as they fight things from the position he's set up, using the weapons he's arranged to have, and goes and investigates the pile of moldy old books in the corner, absent-mindedly dropping a minor spell at just the right moment to turn the tables (if necessary). He works out the plans, charts the easiest course, and is generally more of an actual wizard, a guy who knows ****, than a warmage, a guy who uses spells to defeat enemies.

Ofc divination and communication spells are essential to this.


Not to say that this wizard never uses spells. In a true crisis, he might bust out a teleport to get everyone away, or a quick and brutal spell combo which he looks annoyed at having to use (Solid Fog, Evard's, Vortex of Teeth - Rock to Mud, Mud to Rock - Glitterdust, Grease, Sleep), but ideally he's the just-as-planned guy who manipulates knowledge of what's going on to achieve ideal results - and that's why he gets a share of the treasure, not for exploding everything in sight.

[Augmental]

Essentially just clever play.

Yeah, you do need clever play to play a really good wizard. Namely, you need to use your spells in clever ways.


The only thing a wizard has to help with this is high knowledge checks (Kn: Local is so amazing), but it's a wizard trope that you don't really get in DnD so much that is pretty awesome.

You don't really get that trope in D&D because it's not how wizards work in D&D.


Ofc divination and communication spells are essential to this.

Which means you're relying on spells, just different types of spells.


Not to say that this wizard never uses spells. In a true crisis, he might bust out a teleport to get everyone away, or a quick and brutal spell combo which he looks annoyed at having to use (Solid Fog, Evard's, Vortex of Teeth - Rock to Mud, Mud to Rock - Glitterdust, Grease, Sleep), but ideally he's the just-as-planned guy who manipulates knowledge of what's going on to achieve ideal results - and that's why he gets a share of the treasure, not for exploding everything in sight.

Again, that's not how wizards work at all in D&D. They rely on thier spells to be successful.

[ThiagoMartell]

So Rejakor plays his wizards differently and likes it that way. Why all the hate? :smallconfused:

[Eldariel]

Again, that's not how wizards work at all in D&D. They rely on thier spells to be successful.

You do want to minimize your spell expediture though, to ensure you have the key spells when it counts. In that sense, if you can win a fight by not fighting, or if you can let the rest of your party clean up without much risk, it's often the best way to go. Going "nova" is rarely the way to go unless you really have your backs against the wall. Which is much in like with what Rejakor is saying; only use spells if necessary.

[Ceaon]

Essentially just clever play.
(...) ideally he's the just-as-planned guy who manipulates knowledge of what's going on to achieve ideal results - and that's why he gets a share of the treasure, not for exploding everything in sight.

This is an existing character trope. It's quite cool. Unfortunately, 3.5 wizards can combine both this manipulation trope and the 'just as plannned' shtick with the raining of fiery death and such. Which is just plain better.

That said, I'm all for playing wizards in a cool way while keeping their potential power down, so, kudo's.

[Rejakor]

Well, that's why I said the rules don't really support it.

But it's the wizard trope in fiction - what the wizard actually does in DnD is more like what the more rare 'combat arcanist/battlemage' trope does - hurls spells everywhere while struggling to keep a lid on things with said spells.

[Slipperychicken]

You do want to minimize your spell expediture though, to ensure you have the key spells when it counts. In that sense, if you can win a fight by not fighting, or if you can let the rest of your party clean up without much risk, it's often the best way to go. Going "nova" is rarely the way to go unless you really have your backs against the wall. Which is much in like with what Rejakor is saying; only use spells if necessary.

This makes a lot of sense for a Wizard playing his Int score to its full potential. Perhaps the most important part of using magic is knowing when not to use magic.