Warforged juggernaut's healing immunity vs reforged magical healing

[Venger]

so I'm building robocop, and figured on giving him warforged juggernaut and then 2 of reforged to represent the reawakening of his humanity. (not 3 so he's not retroactively disquaified from juggernaut)

juggernaut gives "healing immunity" and then reforged gives "magical healing" letting you take full effect from healing spells.

which one trumps the other? it seems to me like magical healing would trump healing immunity (not because it came second) but because it seems to be undoing warforged's resistance to healing spells.

is there any official ruling on this?

[Zaq]

You're unlikely to get an official ruling, but since Reforged is pretty much spending levels on more or less pure fluff anyway, I'd personally be inclined to allow it, since you're honestly not getting that much out of your investment in Reforged. That's just a personal call, though, so you're pretty much in "ask your GM" territory. Not a great spot to be in, but them's the breaks.

[grarrrg]

As a general rule "Can't" usually trumps "Can"

Also, technically speaking, you'd get BOTH effects.

Healing Immunity says "no healing for you", and Magical Healing says "Full hp given".
So the Cure spells that CAN'T be cast on you would have FULL effect.

[panaikhan]

To be honest, most DM's who see Juggernaut and Reforged on the same character sheet is going to hear CHEEEEEEEZE screaming in the backs of their brains.
Reading the fluff, there is no reason for a Warforged to do both, they are diametrically opposed. I would personally go for the 'protect and serve' aspect of Robocop (Juggernaut), and leave the Reforged out.

That said, Grarrrg said it perfectly - by RAW you get both effects. The same as the problem that Juggernauts can be raised / resurrected (according to their Living Construct type) as long as you find a method that is not of (or emulates) healing or necromancy, which they are immune to.

[Venger]

To be honest, most DM's who see Juggernaut and Reforged on the same character sheet is going to hear CHEEEEEEEZE screaming in the backs of their brains.
Reading the fluff, there is no reason for a Warforged to do both, they are diametrically opposed. I would personally go for the 'protect and serve' aspect of Robocop (Juggernaut), and leave the Reforged out.

That said, Grarrrg said it perfectly - by RAW you get both effects. The same as the problem that Juggernauts can be raised / resurrected (according to their Living Construct type) as long as you find a method that is not of (or emulates) healing or necromancy, which they are immune to.

cheese?

as mentioned earlier, reforged doesn't really do anything, it is pretty much a level or two devoted to his backstory.

is there a "revive construct" like there's revive outsider/undead? that'd do it.

if there aren't any relevant spells that can raise/resurrect a construct, then juggernauts effectively can't be brought back from the dead. that seems like something of a bum deal.

if it's a huge deal or if the RAW conflicts, it's possible to take the 2 levels out and get more stuff later (2 more pally mebbe, there's some cool ACFs for level 5 and 6, then perhaps 2 more dungeoncrasher fighter for more wall damage)

[shadow_archmagi]

is there a "revive construct" like there's revive outsider/undead? that'd do it.


This isn't actually a problem. No DM will say "BUP BUP BUP SORRY RESURRECTION IS A FORM OF HEALING" except if they slip up when they're actually trying to say "Please kick me in the shins"

[olentu]

This isn't actually a problem. No DM will say "BUP BUP BUP SORRY RESURRECTION IS A FORM OF HEALING" except if they slip up when they're actually trying to say "Please kick me in the shins"

"immune to the effects of spells from the healing subschool" is relatively self explanatory.

[sdream]

"immune to the effects of spells from the healing subschool" is relatively self explanatory.

Self explanatory as RAW, no DM with intact shins who allows all the other players to come back from a bad sequence of rolls will disallow SOME spell to re-animate someone's beloved juggernaut... even if it's a custom spell or item.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Self explanatory as RAW, no DM with intact shins who allows all the other players to come back from a bad sequence of rolls will disallow SOME spell to re-animate someone's beloved juggernaut... even if it's a custom spell or item.

Resurrection spells are cast on dad creatures, dead creatures are objects and thus don't have any class features, RAW I'd say a dead juggernaut could be raised.


Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic

[Venger]

Resurrection spells are cast on dad creatures, dead creatures are objects and thus don't have any class features, RAW I'd say a dead juggernaut could be raised.

derp. how could I forget? thanks for the reminder. we really do need more clear criteria/descriptions for the "dead" condition. not that I want to say you can take actions and stuff, but things like this are something that easily slips one's mind.

thanks.

[panaikhan]

Resurrection spells are cast on dead creatures, dead creatures are objects and thus don't have any class features, RAW I'd say a dead juggernaut could be raised.

If we are going in this direction, why is there an 'Animate Dead' spell? Shouldn't it already be covered by 'Animate Object'?
Why have a spell that specifically preserves a dead body when 'Mending' seems to fit perfectly well?
Resurrection becomes obsolete. You only need a fingernail or a lock of hair, 'Make Whole', and 'Raise Dead'.

[supermonkeyjoe]

If we are going in this direction, why is there an 'Animate Dead' spell? Shouldn't it already be covered by 'Animate Object'?
Why have a spell that specifically preserves a dead body when 'Mending' seems to fit perfectly well?
Resurrection becomes obsolete. You only need a fingernail or a lock of hair, 'Make Whole', and 'Raise Dead'.

Animate object does work on corpses, a zombie/skeleton is a different creature to a medium animated object, I've fooled Players with animated corpses before.

Gentle repose prevents decay and explicitly extends the raise-dead time limit, mending repairs small bits of damage.

Also Make whole doesn't spontaneously regenerate new matter, it repairs breaks so it could be used to fix a body that had been chopped into pieces, assuming you had all the pieces.

It's one of those terrible things that arises from the Dead condition not being properly defined, it's one those scenarios in which common sense tries to fill in the RAW gaps and creates even more issues.