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Morithias
2012-09-04, 05:53 PM
Okay so I was reading through the book of erotic fantasy to design my evil overlord's harem, and I read the stupidest thing ever.

Aasimar appearance score: 14

Okay that makes sense people must associate the celestial blood with attractiveness, back then beauty often did represent goodness...

Drow Appearance score: 14

Okay I guess not, no one thinks the drow are good-aligned in most D&D settings.

Tiefling Appearance Score: 8

Okay maybe it's just me, but I don't really have problems with horns and tails. Maybe it's just the whole demon blood is tainted thing....

Mule Appearance Score: 9

NO! Just NO! I do not care what anyone says, NO ONE except for someone who is completely insane can say they would find a MULE more attractive than Neeshka!

So what's the dumbest thing you've ever read in a 3rd party D&D book? Cause we bash on WOTC a lot, but there's bound to be some dumb 3rd party stuff that's good for a chuckle.

1337 b4k4
2012-09-04, 06:01 PM
Appearance != Attractiveness unless the book is using a different meaning for appearance.

Craft (Cheese)
2012-09-04, 06:06 PM
Okay so I was reading through the book of erotic fantasy

Mistake #1


to design my evil overlord's harem

Mistake #2


NO! Just NO! I do not care what anyone says, NO ONE except for someone who is completely insane can say they would find a MULE more attractive than Neeshka!

To be completely fair to the BOEF writers (not that they really deserve it), both players and WotC can't seem to make up their minds as to whether Tieflings are eldritch abominations that drive people insane to look at them or whether they're humans with a weird skin color. If they took the former interpretation, then rating a mule higher is somewhat understandable.

prufock
2012-09-04, 06:07 PM
You mean mule - the donkey-horse hybrid - or Mul - the human-dwarf hybrid?

Morithias
2012-09-04, 06:09 PM
You mean mule - the donkey-horse hybrid - or Mul - the human-dwarf hybrid?

"Mule" right below "Mountain dwarves" (also an 8), and above "mummy" (which i can understand being a 3)

Edit: Also how is it mistake to have a harem?

holywhippet
2012-09-04, 07:41 PM
"Mule" right below "Mountain dwarves" (also an 8), and above "mummy" (which i can understand being a 3)

Edit: Also how is it mistake to have a harem?

Each member has access to the evil overlord "personally" and the right combination of skill checks and/or mind control spells could result in a dead evil overlord without any kind of an epic battle.

Craft (Cheese)
2012-09-04, 07:54 PM
"Mule" right below "Mountain dwarves" (also an 8), and above "mummy" (which i can understand being a 3)

Wait wait wait they rated mules above dwarves!?

Alright, I take back that lame defense I put up earlier. All the other reasons I can think up as to why they gave mules a rating of 9 are very, very bad ones.


Edit: Also how is it mistake to have a harem?

The mistake isn't in giving the overlord a harem, but in describing it in such detail that you need to whip out the BOEF. If... "details" like that actually come up in the game, I strongly doubt you won't regret it.

Roguenewb
2012-09-04, 08:01 PM
That is...strange. I don't know if it beats that quote of SKR's about VoP that someone found.

Frankly, I have no idea why a tiefling is supposed to be so ugly. Aren't they just supposed to be slightly off humans? If Drow can be hot, why can't tieflings?

Jack of Spades
2012-09-04, 08:11 PM
The mistake isn't in giving the overlord a harem, but in describing it in such detail that you need to whip out the BOEF. If... "details" like that actually come up in the game, I strongly doubt you won't regret it.

Then again, if you're already planning on making a game for which you need to need to go into enough detail about the erotic to need the splatbook...

Well, be prepared to regret it. No matter how mature your group is, it will almost definitely be awkward. Unless you're just running a solo game with your significant other (which is indeed a Thing that Happens). And even then, DnD is way too complicated for that kind of thing to still retain the excitement-- or at the very least, nowhere near the best game for that kind of thing.

Unless, of course, your DnD game is just the way in which you've all agreed to warm up for an orgy. But then it would still be pretty awkward.

Unless [puts fist in mouth to stop the conditional statements]

The point is, if you ever need the BoEF, you're probably taking the sexuality in your game outside of most people's comfort zone. The "fade to black" rule exists (mainly in LARP, I think) for a reason.

Morithias
2012-09-04, 08:39 PM
Okay maybe I should put some context. It wasn't actually uses classes and feats and such for the harem it was more just me going.

"What's the hottest medium humanoid races in D&D...oh wait there's a book with a chart for that.."

Me flipping open the book, reading the chart, and finding that.

It was less "designing the harem in great detail" and me just going "what kind of girls would the guy have in there"

VeliciaL
2012-09-04, 08:48 PM
And you need a supplement for that? :P Isn't imagination enough to supply this info?

Yukitsu
2012-09-04, 08:56 PM
The mistake isn't in giving the overlord a harem, but in describing it in such detail that you need to whip out the BOEF. If... "details" like that actually come up in the game, I strongly doubt you won't regret it.

I need to quote this to my DM some time, so I stop getting drawn into that nonsense when the overlord is dead. Really wish I wasn't always the one that had to deal with that nonsense afterwards.

Morithias
2012-09-04, 09:10 PM
And you need a supplement for that? :P Isn't imagination enough to supply this info?

Why bother figuring it out yourself when the work is done for you?

Erik Vale
2012-09-04, 09:29 PM
Aren't teiflings supposed to have effects (RP only) like a slight aura of mallice/unaturalness/(insert evilish word here) and smell of brimstone.

While I don't know what brimstone smells like, the aura of malice/other would put people on the back foot with tieflings for a while during a real meeting, but otherwise I have to go with no clue and jokes that I can't use on this forum.

Agrippa
2012-09-04, 09:36 PM
Aren't teiflings supposed to have effects (RP only) like a slight aura of mallice/unaturalness/(insert evilish word here) and smell of brimstone.

While I don't know what brimstone smells like, the aura of malice/other would put people on the back foot with tieflings for a while during a real meeting, but otherwise I have to go with no clue and jokes that I can't use on this forum.

I'd say brimstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur) smells kind of like matches. So imagine a person who smells a little like matches and you get the idea of how a tiefling smells.

Talyn
2012-09-04, 09:37 PM
Brimstone (an archaic term for sulfur), if you are interested, smells like rotten eggs.

Agrippa
2012-09-04, 09:44 PM
Brimstone (an archaic term for sulfur), if you are interested, smells like rotten eggs.

Actually that's hydrogen sulfide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide). Sulfur just faintly smells like matches.

Marlowe
2012-09-04, 09:45 PM
No given Tiefling has to have horns, a tail, a smell of brimstone, or any of those physical features. A Tiefling can look like anything you want, as long as what non-human traits it has use vaguely demonic imagery.

Their charisma/attractiveness penalty is because they're automatically distrusted by almost everyone, not that they can't be good-looking.

The funny thing is that they have a racial bonus to Bluff that for that skill only, more than cancels out the charisma penalty. So they're distrusted, but still convincing. If you like you can take it that they're so good-looking that people want to believe them even while knowing they should't.:smallamused:

Lord_Gareth
2012-09-04, 09:57 PM
No given Tiefling has to have horns, a tail, a smell of brimstone, or any of those physical features. A Tiefling can look like anything you want, as long as what non-human traits it has use vaguely demonic imagery.

Their charisma/attractiveness penalty is because they're automatically distrusted by almost everyone, not that they can't be good-looking.

As an example, I ran a Tiefling Crusader (of Wee Jas) who looked completely human, if a bit exotic - except for her second shadow, which did not move in imitation of her body.

Craft (Cheese)
2012-09-04, 10:02 PM
Okay maybe I should put some context. It wasn't actually uses classes and feats and such for the harem it was more just me going.

"What's the hottest medium humanoid races in D&D...oh wait there's a book with a chart for that.."

Me flipping open the book, reading the chart, and finding that.

It was less "designing the harem in great detail" and me just going "what kind of girls would the guy have in there"

Hmm, alright, that's innocent enough. Still though, I don't see why you wouldn't trust your own conception of what the races look like and just build from there.


I'd say brimstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur) smells kind of like matches. So imagine a person who smells a little like matches and you get the idea of how a tiefling smells.

...Is it weird I find the smell of a lit match to be kinda erotic? <.<

Yukitsu
2012-09-04, 10:07 PM
...Is it weird I find the smell of a lit match to be kinda erotic? <.<

Not really. Lit matches have a kind of wood burny smell, and a light bit of smoke is something you can usually smell when you've got a warm fire going or a lot of candles around. Common dressings when people are gettin' it on as it were.

Jack of Spades
2012-09-04, 10:28 PM
...Is it weird I find the smell of a lit match to be kinda erotic? <.<

Nope. Plenty of mental hooks for it to grab, and the smell of a lit match is just burning wood, as opposed to the smell of lighting a match, which is the rotten eggs business. Even if the rotten eggs business is the smell in question, there's still plenty of mental hooks thereandI'mgoingtogobackontopicbeforeIstartlisting fetishes.

EDIT: I didn't make that another word. Why is that another word.


No given Tiefling has to have horns, a tail, a smell of brimstone, or any of those physical features. A Tiefling can look like anything you want, as long as what non-human traits it has use vaguely demonic imagery.

This is something I didn't know. Possibly because I was only vaguely aware of tieflings until 4e came out.


Why bother figuring it out yourself when the work is done for you?
Obvious answer: because what the BoEF writers found attractive are in no way indicative of what other people will find attractive. Also, because that book was kinda horribly written. Hence, your discovery.

Morithias
2012-09-04, 10:52 PM
Obvious answer: because what the BoEF writers found attractive are in no way indicative of what other people will find attractive. Also, because that book was kinda horribly written. Hence, your discovery.

Okay, I'll give you that, but for the most part I think it's decent, it has it's problems, but it's probably the best book for this kind of stuff in D&D (which isn't saying much I admit).

Cerlis
2012-09-04, 11:37 PM
isnt it "apperance", not "attractiveness". ergo attractiveness doesnt matter with these scores. Nor opinion. One has to think about what the stat actually is.

I find that logically its essentially how "natural" something looks. (for instance a platapus IS completely natural, but doesnt look it). An Aasimar is part good outsider, a positive energy. Makes one healthy and strong. I.E. Strengthens the naturally natural parts of the creature. Healthy skin. Glossy hair. strong voice.

While a Tiefling is part fiend. Fiends are generally corrupt, filled with negative energy. and appart from the sexual ones (succubus) are generally covered in rot and sporting strange appendages. Everything about them is unnatural and that is applied to Tieflings. I believe that is suppose to carry over.


when dealing with appearance dont think of "what do i find attractive" . Think "What could be attractive. What looks like the pinnacle of what its suppose to be".

A Mule looks fairly normal compared to a horse or donkey, but still it is a mutant. thus a lower than average apperance score.

Simularly even if you are a straight male you can identify a handsome male because of his good appearance, not cus of some non existant attraction.

Yukitsu
2012-09-04, 11:42 PM
IIRC, the book also has a modifier for looking at someone from across species. I'd assume the Teifling has no modifier from most races, while a mule has a -4 or so from humans, but a flat from other equines.

Silus
2012-09-04, 11:44 PM
This is something I didn't know. Possibly because I was only vaguely aware of tieflings until 4e came out.

This here illustrates the point rather well I think.
Left is 4E, right is 3.0/3.5/PF

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/233/e/c/Tiefling_Tiff_by_Penanggalan.jpg

Kaun
2012-09-05, 12:38 AM
I think the OP is a liar!

Because anybody with the internet has to have read stupider stuff then this during even a casual search! :smallwink:

Korivan
2012-09-05, 12:57 AM
Wow, first thing I thought of as reading it, just before I got through it all was Neeshka. Well done sir, now I must reinstall NWN2. Though I must admit I was more a Quara man myself. :smallbiggrin:

tbok1992
2012-09-05, 01:10 AM
It was less "designing the harem in great detail" and me just going "what kind of girls would the guy have in there"

Isn't it obvious? His harem should be filled with mules! They're better looking than dwarves I hear.:smallbiggrin:

Alleran
2012-09-05, 01:43 AM
I have to say that when I think about what a tiefling looks like, I usually get an image of Tisha from that D&D comic (link (http://www.comicvine.com/tisha-swornheart/29-74448/)).

Also, any evil sorcerous overlord worth his salt would have a room that happens to be dimensionally locked and with a permanent protection against negative energy, as well as a dozen succubi who live there. If you're going for "beauty" then you may as well go straight for the personifications of lust.

Rockphed
2012-09-05, 02:11 AM
EDIT: I didn't make that another word. Why is that another word.

Because the forum has automatic methods of preventing people from stretching the screen. You ran into the "a space is inserted after 50 non-whitespace characters" device.



Also, any evil sorcerous overlord worth his salt would have a room that happens to be dimensionally locked and with a permanent protection against negative energy, as well as a dozen succubi who live there. If you're going for "beauty" then you may as well go straight for the personifications of lust.

See, I would probably throw this sort of thing at players just to see how they respond to finding a dozen or so evil creatures brainwashed and kept captive in a back room.

TheOOB
2012-09-05, 02:15 AM
I have to say that when I think about what a tiefling looks like, I usually get an image of Tisha from that D&D comic (link (http://www.comicvine.com/tisha-swornheart/29-74448/)).

Also, any evil sorcerous overlord worth his salt would have a room that happens to be dimensionally locked and with a permanent protection against negative energy, as well as a dozen succubi who live there. If you're going for "beauty" then you may as well go straight for the personifications of lust.

Nymphs in an AMF would be better IMO.

And now we've taken the train to creepyland, lay over in perv ville.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-05, 02:40 AM
Nymphs in an AMF would be better IMO.

And now we've taken the train to creepyland, lay over in perv ville.

I'm getting off at the lay-over. I don't mind being called a pervert, but I am not creepy, good sir. :smalltongue:

Morithias
2012-09-05, 04:11 AM
Yeah, you can get all succubus, or all nymphs, but wouldn't you want some variety? You're the evil orderlord who rules over the empire and can have any girl you want, why would you want a bunch of girls that are all the same?

Mordokai
2012-09-05, 04:55 AM
Well, basically, once you have a succubus, you have any humanoid from Small to Large anyway :smallbiggrin:

Morithias
2012-09-05, 04:58 AM
Well, basically, once you have a succubus, you have any humanoid from Small to Large anyway :smallbiggrin:

Until you forget your ring of death ward.

Brother Oni
2012-09-05, 06:33 AM
Actually that's hydrogen sulfide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide). Sulfur just faintly smells like matches.

I thought matches had phosphorus for their ignition material, rather than sulphur?

What I was told brimstone smells like, was sulphur dioxide, so a very sharp acrid smell (reinforced by the chemistry teacher waving around a test tube of the stuff).
I later found out that part of the reason why it smells so sharp, is that the stuff dissolves itself in your moist nasal lining, making sulphuric acid.


Yeah, you can get all succubus, or all nymphs, but wouldn't you want some variety? You're the evil orderlord who rules over the empire and can have any girl you want, why would you want a bunch of girls that are all the same?

You never had a twin fantasy? :smalltongue:

Hold the train to creepyland - I think I'm obligated to get off in disembark at perville...

mcv
2012-09-05, 06:46 AM
IIRC, the book also has a modifier for looking at someone from across species. I'd assume the Teifling has no modifier from most races, while a mule has a -4 or so from humans, but a flat from other equines.
Is there seriously a book with rules about how attractive a mule is to humans?

DigoDragon
2012-09-05, 07:22 AM
I have to say that when I think about what a tiefling looks like, I usually get an image of Tisha from that D&D comic (link (http://www.comicvine.com/tisha-swornheart/29-74448/)).

Yeah, same here!
Also, her snark comments and attitude are just icing on that cake. Really good comic series.

Mordokai
2012-09-05, 07:23 AM
Until you forget your ring of death ward.

If some people like erotic asphyxiation, I'm sure there's at least a couple of freaks running around in any given DnD setting that get off on negative energy.

Hell, I can see a market for necromancers already.


You never had a twin fantasy? :smalltongue:

Hold the train to creepyland - I think I'm obligated to get off in disembark at perville...

Mind if I tag along?

Marlowe
2012-09-05, 10:30 AM
Am I to take it that this thread has already gone straight to hell?

Well, if it hasn't. And it's remotely relevant at all, the sole paragraph of description Tieflings get from the SRD is:

"Many tieflings are indistinguishable from humans. Others have small horns, pointed teeth, red eyes, a whiff of brimstone about them, or even cloven feet. No two tieflings are the same."

...And no Tiefling needs to look vaguely demonic. They're just sombody Human-looking that seems odd. Hannibal Lecter would be a decent model. Rei Ayanami would be a decent model. Cameron Baum would be a decent model.

Horns, a tail, and weird eyes is just easy to play.

tbok1992
2012-09-05, 12:51 PM
I was actually half-serious about the mule harem thing, mainly just because it'd be hilarious just to see the look on the PCs faces when the realize exactly why the BBEG has a harem full of 'em. At least, hilarious in a sort of squicky, Garth-Ennis-ian kind of way.

Jack of Spades
2012-09-05, 04:05 PM
Alternatively: The players enter the harem, greeted by nymphs and succubi in various states of nakedness. As they are swooned over as honored guests, they work their way to the back of the evil one's gallery of the carnal. Ignoring the whispers of a thousand offered pleasures, each more alluring and strange than the last, they continue until they reach the master's private quarters. It is in this place, the seductive voices around them explain, that their lord takes his greatest pleasure. Beyond this door, they say, is the most favored of those who lay within these halls. Sensing a way to strike the enemy where he is most vulnerable, the party quickly works at the locks. As each tumbler falls into place, the anticipation of the sex-slaves becomes palpable: they, too, have been denied the honor of their better's presence. As the outsiders in attendance moan and gasp with anticipation, the skilled hands of the rogue solve the final puzzle. Softly, slowly, he opens the door... To reveal a single, simple mule, tied to a post in a bare room.


I was actually half-serious about the mule harem thing, mainly just because it'd be hilarious just to see the look on the PCs faces when the realize exactly why the BBEG has a harem full of 'em. At least, hilarious in a sort of squicky, Garth-Ennis-ian kind of way.
There you go. :smallbiggrin:
I would've put this quote first, but that would've ruined the reveal :smallwink:

eulmanis12
2012-09-05, 06:29 PM
Alternatively: The players enter the harem, greeted by nymphs and succubi in various states of nakedness. As they are swooned over as honored guests, they work their way to the back of the evil one's gallery of the carnal. Ignoring the whispers of a thousand offered pleasures, each more alluring and strange than the last, they continue until they reach the master's private quarters. It is in this place, the seductive voices around them explain, that their lord takes his greatest pleasure. Beyond this door, they say, is the most favored of those who lay within these halls. Sensing a way to strike the enemy where he is most vulnerable, the party quickly works at the locks. As each tumbler falls into place, the anticipation of the sex-slaves becomes palpable: they, too, have been denied the honor of their better's presence. As the outsiders in attendance moan and gasp with anticipation, the skilled hands of the rogue solve the final puzzle. Softly, slowly, he opens the door... To reveal a single, simple mule, tied to a post in a bare room.


There you go. :smallbiggrin:
I would've put this quote first, but that would've ruined the reveal :smallwink:

you sir are a comic genius, if I had a hat it would be off to you:smallwink:

Mordokai
2012-09-06, 01:19 AM
Alternatively: The players enter the harem, greeted by nymphs and succubi in various states of nakedness. As they are swooned over as honored guests, they work their way to the back of the evil one's gallery of the carnal. Ignoring the whispers of a thousand offered pleasures, each more alluring and strange than the last, they continue until they reach the master's private quarters. It is in this place, the seductive voices around them explain, that their lord takes his greatest pleasure. Beyond this door, they say, is the most favored of those who lay within these halls. Sensing a way to strike the enemy where he is most vulnerable, the party quickly works at the locks. As each tumbler falls into place, the anticipation of the sex-slaves becomes palpable: they, too, have been denied the honor of their better's presence. As the outsiders in attendance moan and gasp with anticipation, the skilled hands of the rogue solve the final puzzle. Softly, slowly, he opens the door... To reveal a single, simple mule, tied to a post in a bare room.

That is just sick!

And I love it :smallbiggrin:

Brother Oni
2012-09-06, 02:30 AM
I was actually half-serious about the mule harem thing, mainly just because it'd be hilarious just to see the look on the PCs faces when the realize exactly why the BBEG has a harem full of 'em. At least, hilarious in a sort of squicky, Garth-Ennis-ian kind of way.

And the reply to the player's cries of disgust when they realise what the mule is for, is a defensive "What? They have a Charisma score of 9..."

GolemsVoice
2012-09-06, 04:22 AM
Be prepared for the one player that ISN'T disgusted... :smallbiggrin:

Traab
2012-09-06, 09:28 AM
Be prepared for the one player that ISN'T disgusted... :smallbiggrin:

"I take off my wizard hat and robe."

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-06, 04:34 PM
And the reply to the player's cries of disgust when they realise what the mule is for, is a defensive "What? They have a Charisma score of 9..." No you respond with the typical "evil DM laugh." :smallbiggrin:


"I take off my wizard hat and robe."

:smalleek: and that's the kind of response that, hopefully in jest, a DM that pulls this deserves.

If the player is serious........ EEEEEWWWWW

Sith_Happens
2012-09-06, 06:54 PM
Is there seriously a book with rules about how attractive a mule is to humans?

Sadly, yes.:smallsigh:

Brother Oni
2012-09-08, 09:27 AM
"I take off my wizard hat and robe."

No, no, no, as the song goes, you can leave your hat on (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b04jq7NB1s). :smalltongue:

Roland St. Jude
2012-09-08, 09:40 AM
Sheriff: Locked for review.