View Full Version : Why is Batman a Wizard?
Talionis
2012-09-04, 08:17 PM
I understand Batman is better than everyone, but I always picture Batman as being without Magic. Batman doesn't have super powers... I see Super powers as spells. I'm sure this may deteriate into something else, but what without spells would make a non-casting Batman?
legomaster00156
2012-09-04, 08:20 PM
The reason Batman is a Wizard is because, like any good Wizard, he wins if he has time to prepare. It would be difficult to pull off with a non-caster, but I expect a particularly good skill-monkey could manage something similar.
robertbevan
2012-09-04, 08:20 PM
I understand Batman is better than everyone, but I always picture Batman as being without Magic. Batman doesn't have super powers... I see Super powers as spells. I'm sure this may deteriate into something else, but what without spells would make a non-casting Batman?
rogue fighter with maxed out ability scores in everything and an infinite supply of gold?
Flickerdart
2012-09-04, 08:21 PM
You have it the wrong way around. Batman isn't a Wizard. Wizards are Batman, because like Batman, a well played Wizard always has the right tool for the job.
metabolicjosh
2012-09-04, 08:22 PM
Batman is a wizard because he must always be prepared...
Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-04, 08:46 PM
You have it the wrong way around. Batman isn't a Wizard. Wizards are Batman, because like Batman, a well played Wizard always has the right tool for the job.
This.
Batman isn't a wizard, Batman is a very well played skillmonkey with great equipment garnered from the fact that he has much greater than the expected WBL.
The wizard is batman because a well prepared wizard always has just the right tool for the situation he's gotten himself into, and even if something unexpected comes up he's got a slew of generic plan B options that'll either let him win anyway, or allow him to escape so he can prepare.
ThiagoMartell
2012-09-04, 08:48 PM
You have it the wrong way around. Batman isn't a Wizard. Wizards are Batman, because like Batman, a well played Wizard always has the right tool for the job.
Damn, I was going to say just that.
Because logicninja liked metaphors almost as much as he liked divinations.
Batman is basically a rogue with UMD. He has a scroll for every situation in his utility belt. The metaphor of wizards being Batman is a little removed from the best metaphor in all 3.5 rules, but its close enough.
BIGMamaSloth
2012-09-04, 11:21 PM
I've always thought of Batman as more of a LN incarnate. you know, a guy with a bunch of pieces of equipment made for varyingly specific jobs. Also Batman, like a LN incarnate is MADE OF JUSTICE.
Darth Stabber
2012-09-05, 12:35 AM
Now if only there was a bat avascular mass.
Tvtyrant
2012-09-05, 12:42 AM
I understand Batman is better than everyone, but I always picture Batman as being without Magic. Batman doesn't have super powers... I see Super powers as spells. I'm sure this may deteriate into something else, but what without spells would make a non-casting Batman?
Since magic takes the place of technology in D&D, Batman would be a magic item user if translated into it. I suppose you could claim the alchemical items are better, but they have too low of saves to work correctly.
hirojinbrodie
2012-09-05, 12:54 AM
Batman is a human paragon monk duelist with use magic device. Stupid hard to hit, lots of toys, and lots of attacks. Plus little to no armor. At least, that is what I saw him is when I tried to build him.
sonofzeal
2012-09-05, 12:59 AM
Batman is a human paragon monk duelist with use magic device. Stupid hard to hit, lots of toys, and lots of attacks. Plus little to no armor. At least, that is what I saw him is when I tried to build him.
The batsuit is at least medium armor, depending on the incarnation.
Artificer seems really straight-forward to me. I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned.
If Spell Storing Item: Daze Monster doesn't scream "Shark Repellant Spray," I don't know what does.
:smalltongue:
BobVosh
2012-09-05, 04:04 AM
I love how many variations there are in this thread for batman. When obviously Batman is a factotum. :P
Seriously though, it is as Flickerdart said:
You have it the wrong way around. Batman isn't a Wizard. Wizards are Batman, because like Batman, a well played Wizard always has the right tool for the job.
Socratov
2012-09-05, 06:54 AM
I love how many variations there are in this thread for batman. When obviously Batman is a factotum. :P
Seriously though, it is as Flickerdart said:
add in 4 levels of warlock for decieve item (under all condtions, always use 10 on UMD)
The Glyphstone
2012-09-05, 07:53 AM
add in 4 levels of warlock for decieve item (under all condtions, always use 10 on UMD)
Batman doesn't deceive his magic items. He intimidates them into working for him.
Darth Stabber
2012-09-05, 08:44 AM
Batman doesn't deceive his magic items. He intimidates them into working for him.
I have a home brew PRC with that ability
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159320
Socratov
2012-09-05, 09:00 AM
Batman doesn't deceive his magic items. He intimidates them into working for him.
gheh, i see what you did there :smallwink:
anyway, that is refluffable, instead of decieve item, force item :smallamused:
end effect is the same, he can use those items reliably (taking 10) under all conditions.
Fable Wright
2012-09-05, 10:25 AM
I could see Batman as a factotum, actually. High Int focus, the ability to use arcane scrolls/wands without fail, decent BAB, and having a ton of skills in everything. Fluff the SLAs as gadgets in the utility belt and you're set.
Man on Fire
2012-09-05, 10:43 AM
Yet when the League plays the game he always picks up Paladin, because he wears so many masks he's too tired to roleplay and just picks a guy with morality most similiar to him and go kill some monsters for fun. Superman meanwhile plays Barbarian because it's fun for him getting into somebody so completely different.
Forbiddenwar
2012-09-05, 10:55 AM
Wizards can't be batman. Batman doesn't need gadgets or tools or preparation time.
The batman I know and loves doesn't seem to fit any of these categories. Even stripped down, without any gear or effects, he has the ability to talk his way to success. Using a sharp mind and psychology, he out thinks his opponents. So maybe Batman is like a wizard, since they both clearly have high intellegence, or like a rogue/bard with his high charisma for bluff and diplomacy, or a cleric of justice with his high Wisdom for sense motive, or maybe, just maybe, there is no class that fits Batman accurately.
But then I don't spend much time outside of core. Is there a class other than bard that can be tied up and still convince all the minions to kill each other without lifting a hand? Maybe Batman is a bard/cleric?
AWiz_Abroad
2012-09-05, 10:56 AM
The real question isn't why Batman's a Wizard, its what the other members of the League would play.
I agree Bats would probably pick a Paladin
I could see Superman as a Barbarian
Wonderwoman?
Green Lantern?
The Flash?
The Martian Manhunter?
Aquaman. . . definately a God Wizard (Trying to compensate)
Man on Fire
2012-09-05, 11:05 AM
The real question isn't why Batman's a Wizard, its what the other members of the League would play.
I agree Bats would probably pick a Paladin
I could see Superman as a Barbarian
Wonderwoman?
Green Lantern?
The Flash?
The Martian Manhunter?
Aquaman. . . definately a God Wizard (Trying to compensate)
Aquaman plays Paladin, has optimizing rivarly with Batman. Martian Manhunter plays Half-orc Barbarian, Wonder Woman plays Ranger, Flash plays Rogue, Green Lanter..I dunno
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg215/scaled.php?server=215&filename=automotivator2.jpg&res=landing
Does he looks more like a Cleric or Wizard to you?
The Glyphstone
2012-09-05, 11:14 AM
More like a Paladin, honestly.
Supes should be the Paladin, not the barbarian.
Ramza00
2012-09-05, 11:28 AM
Batman is a human paragon monk duelist with use magic device. Stupid hard to hit, lots of toys, and lots of attacks. Plus little to no armor. At least, that is what I saw him is when I tried to build him.
I feel unarmed swordsage is a little closer :smallwink:
nyarlathotep
2012-09-05, 11:33 AM
More like a Paladin, honestly.
Supes should be the Paladin, not the barbarian.
I could see him just being a good aligned barbarian. In the sort of lawless places more D&D worlds are following rules is less important than helping peopl.
The Glyphstone
2012-09-05, 11:36 AM
I could see him just being a good aligned barbarian. In the sort of lawless places more D&D worlds are following rules is less important than helping peopl.
...Paladin of Freedom? Or just a Fighter. Barbarian is pretty much the antithesis of Superman, haven't you seen the World of Cardboard speech? He's constantly fighting to keep control and not wreak terrible havoc, where a Barbarian's entire power comes from losing control.
Granted, if it was the Justice League sitting down to play an RPG, I could see Supes choosing Barbarian for exactly that reason, as a sort of vicarious release mechanism.
nyarlathotep
2012-09-05, 12:25 PM
Granted, if it was the Justice League sitting down to play an RPG, I could see Supes choosing Barbarian for exactly that reason, as a sort of vicarious release mechanism.
I thought that was what we were talking about.
pyromanser244
2012-09-05, 01:11 PM
I have trouble seeing Martian Manhunter playing a barbarian. he always struck me as preferring to use his brain. I could see him playing a wizard, maybe with some obscure race.
Flickerdart
2012-09-05, 01:19 PM
I have trouble seeing Martian Manhunter playing a barbarian. he always struck me as preferring to use his brain. I could see him playing a wizard, maybe with some obscure race.
http://poietes.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/marvin-the-martian.jpg
Seems like a Barbarian to me. :smalltongue:
The_Jackal
2012-09-05, 01:29 PM
First of all, read the post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002) if you haven't.
Second of all, it's just one idea of that the proper role of a wizard is in a D&D 3rd edition party. You want another (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)?
The point behind the Batman wizard is that you've got a guy who makes his team win, rather than just gunning for personal glory, and that's where the strength of the idea lies. It's grounded in the understanding that by using debuffs and control spells to divide and disrupt the enemy force, your team can demolish much more difficult enemies than if they merely focus on producing big numbers in the damage department.
kitcik
2012-09-05, 01:29 PM
Q: Why is Commissioner Gordon a monk?
A: Because he is completely ineffective without Batman.
ThiagoMartell
2012-09-05, 01:33 PM
Q: Why is Commissioner Gordon a monk?
A: Because he is completely ineffective without Batman.
You probably haven't read many Batman comics.
kitcik
2012-09-05, 03:42 PM
You probably haven't read many Batman comics.
I have seen all the movies and TV episodes, though. :smallbiggrin:
Darth Stabber
2012-09-05, 07:47 PM
First of all, read the post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002) if you haven't.
Second of all, it's just one idea of that the proper role of a wizard is in a D&D 3rd edition party. You want another (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)?
The point behind the Batman wizard is that you've got a guy who makes his team win, rather than just gunning for personal glory, and that's where the strength of the idea lies. It's grounded in the understanding that by using debuffs and control spells to divide and disrupt the enemy force, your team can demolish much more difficult enemies than if they merely focus on producing big numbers in the damage department.
Mailman is one of those rare circumstances where sorc is better, infact that is pretty much a sorc build. You could do it with wizard, but why?
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