[PF] A talky, Machiavellian Bard

[mcv]

For an upcoming Pathfinder Kingmaker campaign (don't spoil me if you know it), I want to make a politician. Someone with a vaguely noble background, trained in diplomacy and politics, but lacking any actual political position, who sees this job as an opportunity to gain real political power. A ruthless Machiavellian, manipulator, willing to do anything, anything to get ahead, even be a heroic good guy, if he really has to (but he's not going to be Good).

I think the obvious first step is to make him a Bard. None of the other classes really fit the bill, except Rogue maybe, but I think Bard does it better.

Now I'm not looking for a super optimized build. I'm looking for something that captures my character concept well: someone who uses words as a weapon, who can influence and manipulate effectively. But the other players already believe that Bards suck, so I'd like to prove them wrong by not making this guy completely useless outside social encounters. And there I need the assistance of this forum's infinite wisdom.

Below are some of my incomplete considerations so far.

Stats
The most important stat is obvious: Cha. But what after that? Because of the character concept, I'm tempted to focus on all physical stats. He sounds like the kind of guy who's not just persuasive, but also informed and perceptive. But that's probably a bad idea if I don't want him to suck completely in combat. So what else? Dex goes well with Bards I believe, but archery doesn't feel right for him. He might well be a coward, but he doesn't want to appear that way. An archer doesn't sound like an inspiring leader type. But do I want to do melee? I'm not sure.

Looking at his role models: Machiavelli was a civil servant, and wrote songs, comedies and poetry. But his other major role model, Lord Vetinari (Discworld) was trained as an assassin.

I'm not sure exactly how stats are going to be determined yet, but it's possible it's going to be a 25 point buy.

Skills
My Performance has got to be Oratory. Playing some music in battle doesn't sound like this guy, but shouting inspiring encouragements at the others would be very appropriate. Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive are essential. Intimidate might also work for him. Knowledge Nobility, probably. Stealth, Disguise, Sleight of Hand? Less so, but you never know, right?

Thing is, at level 2, I get Versatile Performance, and can use Oratory for Diplomacy and Sense Motive, which is cool, but I wouldn't want to start play without Diplomacy; that just wouldn't be right. At level 6 I can do the same with another Performance skill, but I don't really want to go without Bluff during my first 5 levels.

And for Countersong I'd need an instrument-based Performance skill, but it really doesn't feel right to pull out a lute or flute all of a sudden.

Feats
What are the good bardic feats, other than extra performance? Should I take feats that boost my social skills? Should I focus on ranged or melee?

Betrayer sounds like something he might do when the need arises, but 3 feats for doing a pitiful amount of damage on rare occasions is not worth it. Arcane Strike looks like a must if I decide to go the melee route.

I'd love to hear better ideas.

[Corlindale]

Stats
The most important stat is obvious: Cha. But what after that? Because of the character concept, I'm tempted to focus on all physical stats. He sounds like the kind of guy who's not just persuasive, but also informed and perceptive. But that's probably a bad idea if I don't want him to suck completely in combat. So what else? Dex goes well with Bards I believe, but archery doesn't feel right for him. He might well be a coward, but he doesn't want to appear that way. An archer doesn't sound like an inspiring leader type. But do I want to do melee? I'm not sure.

I believe it's possible to make a bard relying more on spells and performances than physical combat, and hence you don't need to focus that much on physical stats, though a decent dex and con is advisable. I also like a good Int on my bards, because I never seem to have enough skill points for everything I want to do.

Another popular combat strategy for bards is to use Intimidate to debuff enemies (most often through the Dazzling Display feat) - it has the advantage of being a meaningful thing to do in most combats, while not being reliant on your physical stats at all.

Use Magic Device can also give you a lot of powerful options in combat that do not rely on physical stats, but it has the downside that all of these options are going to consume valuable resources.

And of course you have an excellent set of mind-affecting spells. Your DCs will sadly be a bit lower than those of a wizard, but there are ways to compensate. For instance, after level 8 you can combo dirge of doom with a spell to give your foes -2 to saves against it.

Some Archetypes focus more on the casting aspect of the Bard. The Magician gives you some spells off-list and some more magic-related performances, while the Sandman excels at manipulation with his ability to boost save DCs against unwary foes, and surrepteously blend spells and normal conversation (If I were to do a master manipulator bard, I would make him a Sandman). Both sacrifice Inspire Courage, though, so you'll become less of a party buffer as a result.

If you want to go martial, archery is a powerful option for bards - though it is very costly in terms of feats, which means you'll have less to spend on fun stuff. You also want a high dex, which can lead to sacrifices on Cha.



Skills

My Performance has got to be Oratory. Playing some music in battle doesn't sound like this guy, but shouting inspiring encouragements at the others would be very appropriate. Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive are essential. Intimidate might also work for him. Knowledge Nobility, probably. Stealth, Disguise, Sleight of Hand? Less so, but you never know, right?

You probably want a point in ALL of your class skills (excepting all the performances, crafts and professions, of course), simply to activate the class skill bonus - so you can be decent at everything. Otherwise I would coordinate with your party so you have the essentials covered between you. And as always, Perception is the best skill in the game, hands down.


Thing is, at level 2, I get Versatile Performance, and can use Oratory for Diplomacy and Sense Motive, which is cool, but I wouldn't want to start play without Diplomacy; that just wouldn't be right. At level 6 I can do the same with another Performance skill, but I don't really want to go without Bluff during my first 5 levels.

A good compromise is to just grab 1 rank in each of the skills you're going to VP later. Assume you have ~16 Cha to start, you'll get a +7 modifier just by putting in 1 point - enough to be decent at it until you get VP, but you haven't thrown away too many points once the skill becomes obsolete. You might try to survive the 1st level without diplomacy, though, you'd still have your Cha bonus for negotations.

A particularly nice GM might even allow "retraining" of these skills once VP kicks in, but this is not RAW.


And for Countersong I'd need an instrument-based Performance skill, but it really doesn't feel right to pull out a lute or flute all of a sudden.

Countersong isn't particularly useful anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.


Feats
What are the good bardic feats, other than extra performance? Should I take feats that boost my social skills? Should I focus on ranged or melee?

Weapon Focus + Dazzling Display is as mentioned a popular bardic option for a reason. Lingering Performance is better than Extra Performance in most cases.

With high Cha and many skill points you shouldn't really need to take skills that boost diplomacy and the like further - you're already good at these things, so maybe use the feats you get to give you more combat options (as this can be a bard's weak area).

The Eldritch Heritage feats can be a fun choice too, though they are a bit expensive to take.

[mcv]

Another popular combat strategy for bards is to use Intimidate to debuff enemies (most often through the Dazzling Display feat) - it has the advantage of being a meaningful thing to do in most combats, while not being reliant on your physical stats at all.
Looks very interesting, though it would be a bit weird to have someone who's not a good combatant intimidate a large group of enemies with his combat prowess.


Use Magic Device can also give you a lot of powerful options in combat that do not rely on physical stats, but it has the downside that all of these options are going to consume valuable resources.
My impression is that UMD is particularly useful at higher levels. At level 1 it's still too unreliable, and you don't get many magic items at that point yet. But it would be a great use for the skill points I save through Versatile Performance.


Some Archetypes focus more on the casting aspect of the Bard.
I've looked through the list and didn't see any that sounded suitable for a politician/diplomat/manipulator, and they generally require me to sacrifice something I don't want to do without. Although the Archaeologist makes me want to get a wide-brimmed hat and do cool stuff with a whip.


The Magician gives you some spells off-list and some more magic-related performances, while the Sandman excels at manipulation with his ability to boost save DCs against unwary foes, and surrepteously blend spells and normal conversation (If I were to do a master manipulator bard, I would make him a Sandman). Both sacrifice Inspire Courage, though, so you'll become less of a party buffer as a result.
Inspire Courage sounds really very useful. (And I get the impression we'll have a good number of melee characters in the group who'll benefit from it.) The Sandman's Dramatic Subtext ability sounds absolutely perfect, though. I wish I could take only that.


If you want to go martial, archery is a powerful option for bards - though it is very costly in terms of feats, which means you'll have less to spend on fun stuff. You also want a high dex, which can lead to sacrifices on Cha.
And isn't a Bard mostly about the fun stuff? So it's probably not going to be ranged.


You probably want a point in ALL of your class skills (excepting all the performances, crafts and professions, of course), simply to activate the class skill bonus - so you can be decent at everything. Otherwise I would coordinate with your party so you have the essentials covered between you. And as always, Perception is the best skill in the game, hands down.
But Perception uses Wisdom, which is probably not going to be very good if I also want some physical stats. (Too bad Versatile Performance doesn't help here.)


A good compromise is to just grab 1 rank in each of the skills you're going to VP later. Assume you have ~16 Cha to start, you'll get a +7 modifier just by putting in 1 point - enough to be decent at it until you get VP, but you haven't thrown away too many points once the skill becomes obsolete.
That's probably a good idea First level Diplomacy costs only a single point, so that's not really an issue.

My second Versatile Performance at level 6 might require some planning, though. Postponing Bluff and/or Intimidate would make Acting or Comedy nice choices. After that, I have all of the basic skills covered, I think. At level 10 I might go with Percussion or Dance, and after level 14 I'd really have all relevant skills covered. Though Percussion and Dance don't sound very appropriate for the character. But Acting and Comedy would be perfect.


Countersong isn't particularly useful anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Alright, no Countersong for me.


Weapon Focus + Dazzling Display is as mentioned a popular bardic option for a reason. Lingering Performance is better than Extra Performance in most cases.
Is the lingering effect of lingering performance free? It doesn't cost my my limited performances per day? I suppose it has to; otherwise it'd do practically nothing.


With high Cha and many skill points you shouldn't really need to take skills that boost diplomacy and the like further - you're already good at these things, so maybe use the feats you get to give you more combat options (as this can be a bard's weak area).
I figured if I'm going to be using them a lot, why not boost them even more? Although with an eye on Versatile Performance, maybe I should be boosting my Performance skills instead. Or Perception?


The Eldritch Heritage feats can be a fun choice too, though they are a bit expensive to take.
But isn't that Sorcerer only? Though the Maestro and Imperious bloodlines do seem kinda relevant.

[Corlindale]

But Perception uses Wisdom, which is probably not going to be very good if I also want some physical stats. (Too bad Versatile Performance doesn't help here.)

Wisdom is not that important, having good Wisdom only amounts to a few points anyway. My point was merely that you should have skill points to spare for Perception.


Is the lingering effect of lingering performance free? It doesn't cost my my limited performances per day? I suppose it has to; otherwise it'd do practically nothing.

Yes, it's free - which means it can almost triple your performances per day. It also works well with the Finale-spells which require you to end a performance to cast them, since it allows your allies to keep gaining benefits (however, the same line of spells can also make having an actual performance in effect a more attractive option, so be careful).


I figured if I'm going to be using them a lot, why not boost them even more? Although with an eye on Versatile Performance, maybe I should be boosting my Performance skills instead. Or Perception?

Skill Focus (Perform Oratory) might not be a terrible choice, since you get double bang for your buck with it, eventually adding +6 to two very useful skills. On that note, perhaps look into the Alternate Racial Feature for humans (I assume you are human) that lets them exchange their bonus feat at 1st level for three(!) Skill Focus feats at 1st, 8th and 16th level. Might be a good option if you want to invest in your skills without spending too many precious feats on it.


But isn't that Sorcerer only? Though the Maestro and Imperious bloodlines do seem kinda relevant.

No, the point of these feats are rather that they can give a non-sorceror access to some of the sorceror bloodline powers - which makes them VERY attractive for other Cha-focused characters like oracles, paladins and bards. Imperious is a good catch, the ability to buff morale bonuses would indeed be excellent for a bard - though you can't pick it up before level 11, and the 1st level power you have to gain beforehand is very meh.

[mcv]

Yes, it's free - which means it can almost triple your performances per day. It also works well with the Finale-spells which require you to end a performance to cast them, since it allows your allies to keep gaining benefits (however, the same line of spells can also make having an actual performance in effect a more attractive option, so be careful).
Interesting. I wasn't aware of these bard-specific spells. Reviving Finale sounds particularly useful.


Skill Focus (Perform Oratory) might not be a terrible choice, since you get double bang for your buck with it, eventually adding +6 to two very useful skills. On that note, perhaps look into the Alternate Racial Feature for humans (I assume you are human) that lets them exchange their bonus feat at 1st level for three(!) Skill Focus feats at 1st, 8th and 16th level. Might be a good option if you want to invest in your skills without spending too many precious feats on it.
That would go incredibly good with Versatile Performance. Although I have no idea whether we're actually going to get to level 16. So I'm mainly sacrificing a bit of flexibility at start for an extra skill focus at level 8. Still an interesting option to consider.


No, the point of these feats are rather that they can give a non-sorceror access to some of the sorceror bloodline powers - which makes them VERY attractive for other Cha-focused characters like oracles, paladins and bards. Imperious is a good catch, the ability to buff morale bonuses would indeed be excellent for a bard - though you can't pick it up before level 11, and the 1st level power you have to gain beforehand is very meh.
Yeah, you're right. I can't find any other bloodlines that seem to fit, though.


I think I've got a good grasp on what will happen to my skills, and I've got a reasonable idea of feats that take advantage of them. But can I really afford to ignore combat? Will Dazzling Display, Bardic Performance and spells really be enough to fulfill my role in the party? Or should I still get some Strength or Dex so I can still hit something if nothing else works?

I found a Bard optimization guide here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2 where the Controller Bard seems somewhat relevant to your suggestions; it suggests Dazzling Display (using the whip, of all things), Skill Focus, and trip. It suggests Strength as secondary skill, though with the whip, I don't really use the damage bonus. Dex + Finesse would be better for my AC, but costs an extra feat. I suppose if I take just Dazzling Display, I can always go the trip route if I later have an extra feat to spend.