how to buff illusion spells? Especially npc ones.

[Thewaitingman]

This more of an RP problem, the same as the double agent one(the inevitable bluff skill failure after many rolls): I want to put a disguised npc in the story without fearing the players 4 different saves every time they meet them. I don't know how to buff a spells save though.. Any help?

[Jack_Simth]

This more of an RP problem, the same as the double agent one(the inevitable bluff skill failure after many rolls): I want to put a disguised npc in the story without fearing the players 4 different saves every time they meet them. I don't know how to buff a spells save though.. Any help?
If you're willing to go Exalted, there's a few feats that buff save DC's for almost anything that doesn't risk killing (Vow of Peace, Vow of Non-violence). Gnomes get a racial bonus, and of course, there's Spell Focus and it's Greater cousin. Buffing your primary casting stat helps, and aging bonuses can help if he's going to be a one-trick-pony.

And, of course, it's an interaction will save for most illusions. If they don't shake hands or anything, and the NPC gives them no reason to stop and examine them carefully, no save.

[Gamer Girl]

This more of an RP problem, the same as the double agent one(the inevitable bluff skill failure after many rolls): I want to put a disguised npc in the story without fearing the players 4 different saves every time they meet them. I don't know how to buff a spells save though.. Any help?

You might not want an illusion...use alter self or even polymorph.

[lsfreak]

And, of course, it's an interaction will save for most illusions. If they don't shake hands or anything, and the NPC gives them no reason to stop and examine them carefully, no save.

This is the important thing. Saves are interaction-only, they need a very good reason to happen. If they're not physically interacting with the person, then I'd only allow a save if a) the illusion is of someone the PC's are supposed to know well or b) there's something for the PC's to notice is wrong, extremes being a gnome disguised as a giant will have problems interacting with things, a 12-year-old shouldn't be speaking in a deep baritone, and so on.

[vartan]

I was recently underwhelmed when I ran a gnome illusionist against my group hoping top bereal tricky. I boosted his dcs with spell focus, greater spell focus, his racial bonus, and shadow weave magic.

To make the disguise matter even worse, I don't think that glamers (i.e. Disguise Self) require physical interaction to save against. They just require intent studying (I forget the phrase).

[lsfreak]

To make the disguise matter even worse, I don't think that glamers (i.e. Disguise Self) require physical interaction to save against. They just require intent studying (I forget the phrase).

Nope, they still need interaction. And even so, "intent studying" would be spending a move action to Spot, and how often do your PC's run around saying, "I spend a move action to notice if this person is illusioned"?

[Venger]

I was recently underwhelmed when I ran a gnome illusionist against my group hoping top bereal tricky. I boosted his dcs with spell focus, greater spell focus, his racial bonus, and shadow weave magic.

To make the disguise matter even worse, I don't think that glamers (i.e. Disguise Self) require physical interaction to save against. They just require intent studying (I forget the phrase).

you are mistaken. here is the relevant section of rules info


Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering
an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize
it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some
fashion. For example, if a party encounters a section of illusory floor,
the character in the lead would receive a saving throw if she stopped
and studied the floor or if she probed the floor.

the word you are looking for is "scrutinize"

by "study the area carefully" they mean like the way a rogue trapfinds. you're not just kind of looking at it, you're all up in its grill poking at it with your illusion detecting tools and stuff.

[vartan]

@Venger:
First of all I love your name, but I'm sure that I was led to believe that such study didn't include physically touching it at all but just examining it hard enough tp notice incongruities. I was specifically talking about glamers, and I think I got this notion from a series of wotc articles on illusion.

There are bound to be a ton of small things that one can't account for after establishing a disguise by use of disguise self (i.e. making hair tussle in the wind, having shadows fall properly across the face in candlelight, etc.) With a good hard look at someone using a glamer should probably warrant a save.

I may be mistaken. I'm sorry if I am.

[TuggyNE]

@Venger:
First of all I love your name, but I'm sure that I was led to believe that such study didn't include physically touching it at all but just examining it hard enough tp notice incongruities. I was specifically talking about glamers, and I think I got this notion from a series of wotc articles on illusion.

There are bound to be a ton of small things that one can't account for after establishing a disguise by use of disguise self (i.e. making hair tussle in the wind, having shadows fall properly across the face in candlelight, etc.) With a good hard look at someone using a glamer should probably warrant a save.

The main point is that taking "a good hard look" should require a move action, which makes it impractical to spam endlessly. As long as there is an actual cost or difficulty to attempting to consider something an illusion, you'll be fine.

[supermonkeyjoe]

A combination of disguise self and alter self would give +20 to disguise and only the disguise self portion is an actual illusion. As people have said it would involve very careful examining to grant a save, something that would probably be obvious to the person being examined.

Also what level are the PCs and the disguised person? it might be possible with a bit of optimising to have a completely mundane or non-illusion disguise that has a higher modifier than anything the PCs can reach.