Good feat for a beginning wizard? (3.5)

[Tragic_Comedian]

Starting a game soon, I'm having trouble picking out a feet for my wizard. He's a true neutral male human, wizard 2, ability scores STR 8, DEX 11, CON 10, INT 18, WIS 10, and CHA 13. The game is set is Sasserine, so I'm planning on picking Knack for Magic as my district feat, and I get Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat as a first level wizard, but I'm having trouble deciding on the human bonus feat. Any suggestions? For roleplaying purposes, I'd rather it not be anything very combat oriented.

[gorfnab]

Does you DM have any restrictions on books?
What level will your campaign get to?
What does the rest of you build look like?
What is the rest of your party playing?

[Tragic_Comedian]

We were allowed all core books, the Races of * series, the Complete * series, and we were each allowed to pick one more book to allow. Right now I think we have the Tome of Battle and Unearthed Arcana.

I'm not sure, but since we started with 28 point buy, I figure reasonably high.

Right now we have a warmage, a warblade, an incarnate, a swashbuckler, and a bard.

I was considering the Collegiate Wizard feat from Complete Arcane.

[juicycaboose]

I don't know much about Sasserine but if there's some sort of Mage's College there you could take Collegiate Wizard from Complete Arcane, extra spells known is always handy!

edit: you beat me to it yourself :>
unless you're aiming for a specific prestige class and need some prereq feats collegiate wizard is a good choice, even then it's still a fine one

[Tragic_Comedian]

I was thinking about taking levels in the Mage of the Arcane Order prestige class later on.

[LTwerewolf]

Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus in two schools of magic

[juicycaboose]

If you're wanting to get into Mage of the Arcane Order as early as possible (level 5) then you're going to want to take a metamagic feat as either your 1st level or human bonus feat so you can take cooperative spell at 3rd level

[metabolicjosh]

Hopefully you can take the Sanctum Spell.
Make your sanctum your arcane mark.

[Aharon]

Your PB isn't very good. 16 INT is absolutely sufficient and frees lots of points to put in CON. More Hit Points, better Concentration in the few cases you'll need it.

I'm unclear on the "Everyone picks a book allowed" rule. Is that book allowed only for him, or for the whole group?

If for the whole group, take the option that allows you to exchange Scribe Scroll for something useful, for example Improved Initiative. => None Combat Oriented: Fluff it as "reacts fast because of his superior intelligence" or something similar.

For the other feat, is Mage of the Arcane Order set in stone? What direction do you want to pursue with the character?

[Ashtagon]

Hopefully you can take the Sanctum Spell.
Make your sanctum your arcane mark.

An arcane mark is not actual a legal designated sanctum. It's neither in the letter or the spirit of the feat.

[ArcaneGlyph]

Spellcasting Prodigy from one of the FR books. Makes your casting stat seem 2 points higher for bonus spells per day and save DCs. #winning.

[Roguenewb]

Spellcasting Prodigy from one of the FR books. Makes your casting stat seem 2 points higher for bonus spells per day and save DCs. #winning.

That got reprinted, without the DC boost. Not so good anymore.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think Mage of the Arcane Order isn't as good to wizards as it is to Sorcerers and other Fixed List casters, theoretically you could get all the spells from the spell pool into your spellbook and leave a few slots opens for when you need them, without having to pay the debt to the spellpool later.

I second Collegiate wizard, it is pretty good to have extra spells.

[Tragic_Comedian]

If you're wanting to get into Mage of the Arcane Order as early as possible (level 5) then you're going to want to take a metamagic feat as either your 1st level or human bonus feat so you can take cooperative spell at 3rd level
What's a good metamagic feat to take at 1st level?


I'm unclear on the "Everyone picks a book allowed" rule. Is that book allowed only for him, or for the whole group?

If for the whole group, take the option that allows you to exchange Scribe Scroll for something useful, for example Improved Initiative. => None Combat Oriented: Fluff it as "reacts fast because of his superior intelligence" or something similar.
Once someone picks a book, everyone in the group can use it.

That's a nice idea.



For the other feat, is Mage of the Arcane Order set in stone? What direction do you want to pursue with the character?
No, Mage of the Arcane Order isn't set in stone. The DM said he was fine with allowing the prestige class, but said in this campaign it might be difficult to access the Order a lot of the time, making paying dues difficult, etc. I thought about just going straight wizard or else wizard/archmage eventually. I'm unsure of what you mean when you ask me what direction I want to pursue with the character.

[Tr011]

If you pick PHB2 as allowed book, you should get Spell Mastery and then get Uncanny Forethought. If not, take Alacritous Cogitation from CM. Both are not "combat oriented" but still stronger than anything in combat.
Arcane Disciple can be quiet strong. Nonverbal Spell is awesome. Taking an ACF instead of the familiar and pick Obtain Familiar is a classic move. Arcane Mastery is very good if you get a minor bonus to dispel and piercing spell resistance from another source.
Those should be the strongest feats if you don't do anything "special".

[Diarmuid]

Make sure someone picks Spell Compendium as an allowed book. I'm also in the Collegiate Wizard camp, especially for a low level starting game.

Those are the least likely to ever really see the light of higher levels for numerous reasons, and CW brings a lot of return in the low levels comparatively. Especially if your DM enforces the scribing rules for adding new spells to your spellbook.

By the book, at 3rd level alone that feat has saved you 168 hours and 900gp.

[ericgrau]

Getting even 1/3 of all spells into your spellbook would be crazy expensive, so mage of the arcane order is handy for wizards. In fact with a full round action to call a spell neither wizards nor sorcerers can make much use of it in combat. Instead it should be beyond awesome for utility spells between combat for both classes. Does the party need some invisibilities to infiltrate this building? Done. And even a prepared caster probably wouldn't have enough copies for the whole party, btw. Browse through the player's handbook and other sources and keep a list of spells you might use. It does also mean you have less use for scribe scroll.

And it's incredibly dull to do something 100 other people have done IMO. And IMO MotAO seems very strong and very overlooked and it's for noncombat not combat like you want. My only concern is that your DM might disable the main ability so often that the whole concept might become useless. Red flags would be if it depends on the enemy fortress or his whims rather than random die rolls or the region of the world. That could be him saying "I'll let you use it except when it matters."

If you take that class then collegiate wizard becomes less useful from the shared utility spells.

Which metamagic feat you pick depends on what kinds of spells you like to cast which is related to the school you specialize in. You need a specialty school for metamagic school focus if you go MotAO. Empower spell is good for evocation damage and necromancy debuffs. Extend spell is good for buffs & wards like transmutations, abjurations and some illusions (the buff ones). Quicken is beyond useful on any spell, but you won't be able to actually use it until level 7. Silent spell is tricky to pull off but it's great for noncombat use if you want to try a lot of stealth casting, especially image illusions since foes won't know where the caster is. Then get invisibility for the whole party too. Still spell is good in combination with the combat casting feat so you can cast while grappled, tied up or etc.

[herrhauptmann]

What's a good metamagic feat to take at 1st level?

I'd say to avoid metamagics at first level. That is, if you want to actually use them now, rather than trying to meet prereqs for later in your build.
Chained and Twin spells are awesome, but what's the level on those? +4? Even if you can take them now, you'll have to wait until 7th level to use them on your cantrips. Yes, you can get some reducers, but not yet, and I think that might be more cheese/optimization than your group uses.
In other words: They're good. But they're a wasted feat right now since you can't use them.

Regarding your stats:
I think you should beef up your con a little, and drop your charisma a lot. There's little actual need for charisma unless your build requires it. Want a likable character? Just roleplay one, rather than having a high cha.

[Aharon]

No, Mage of the Arcane Order isn't set in stone. The DM said he was fine with allowing the prestige class, but said in this campaign it might be difficult to access the Order a lot of the time, making paying dues difficult, etc. I thought about just going straight wizard or else wizard/archmage eventually. I'm unsure of what you mean when you ask me what direction I want to pursue with the character.

Well, basically I would like to know how you intend to roleplay the character. Is he going to be a very scholarly person whose main value for the group is his knowledge? Then you might want to focus on Prestige Classes that emphasize this path, for example Loremaster, and take your feats accordingly.

Is his magic supposed to be similar to some fantasy source? For example, recently a friend asked me to make a wizard whose teacher didn't pay respect to the gods. I went with the idea and fluffed Domain Wizard (Unearthed Arcana) and the Domain Power feat (Complete Champion) as "His teacher taught his students to use powers in ways similar to clerics, but without revering the gods." She also wanted to have her character to have powers that looked like Dragon Ball, so I proposed to take the feat spell thematics (Player's Guide to Faerun). The result looked like this:

Trait: Spellgifted (+1 Caster level Evocation, -1 Caster level
Necromancy) Unearthed Arcana
1: Wizard (Domain Wizard (Evocation), Combat Wizard (both options from Unearted Arcana))
Feats: Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Spell Thematics
2: Wizard
3: Wizard
Feat: Empower Spell
4: Wizard
5: Wizard
Feat: Domain Power (Travel Domain) (Alternate Class Feature aus dem
Complete Champion).

As you can see, what you want your character to be like, it's easier to give advice.

[Tragic_Comedian]

To Jabo, the most important things are magic and magical power. It's what he enjoys most about life, values above all other things, and he considers his ability to work arcane spells the most defining aspect of his identity. He is always looking to increase his power, and as such places a high value on knowledge of all kinds. He is loath to rely on anything other than his own magic, and is unskilled in physical tasks, believing them to be beneath him.

[Tvtyrant]

Are you allowed to retrain feats? Because if so I would take something like Sudden Extend at first level, allowing you to extend an effect once per day. Retrain it out around level 5 to something better, but the sudden line isn't as horrid at low levels as at high ones.

[Aharon]

To Jabo, the most important things are magic and magical power. It's what he enjoys most about life, values above all other things, and he considers his ability to work arcane spells the most defining aspect of his identity. He is always looking to increase his power, and as such places a high value on knowledge of all kinds. He is loath to rely on anything other than his own magic, and is unskilled in physical tasks, believing them to be beneath him.

Ok, that opens up several venues:
1) You might want to take a Reserve Feat (Complete Mage) to allow Jabo to use his magic more often. Take it in conjunction with Precocious Apprentice to get a 2d6 ranged attack, not bad at first level. Proceed to Mage of the Arcane Order, as originally planned.

2) Alternatively, he might, in his strive for knowledge, find ways to even use magic intuitively (Wiz/Sorc going into Ultimate Magus (also Complete Mage).

(
3) potentially disruptive, given the power level of your campaign:
Basically all of the really strong wizard PrCs can be fluffed to fit your description: Incantatrix (Player's Guide to Faerun) allows great control over Metamagic. Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil makes you nearly immune to outside threats. Red Mage makes you the master of a circle of your clones (but requires specialization)
)

Your feat choice influences how fast you can enter these

[laeZ1]

(human: Toughness)
1: Toughness
3: Toughness
6: Toughness
9: Toughness
12: Toughness
15: Toughness
18: Toughness

yer welcome ahead of time.

[TuggyNE]

(human: Toughness)
1: Toughness
3: Toughness
6: Toughness
9: Toughness
12: Toughness
15: Toughness
18: Toughness

yer welcome ahead of time.

Um. Toughness, as the game designers have admitted (http://web.archive.org/web/20081223093330/http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mc_los_142), is a lousy feat for any but the lowest-level of one-shots.

[metabolicjosh]

An arcane mark is not actual a legal designated sanctum. It's neither in the letter or the spirit of the feat.
Really? My Dm has always had enemy caster do that... I need to have a chat with him...