My Players want to do stuff that I don't know how to do...

[Qintopon]

One of my players (a crafty bastard one) wants to create a pair of books that when writing into one it will appear on the other one as a sort of communication. We saw a number of similar objects that have more benefits than the proposed item that cost much less than creating the proposed with the...that sounds too confusing...I'll try to make it simpler...

The Writing Books (WB) have less benefit than say a pair of Mirrors of Communication (MofC), but a pair of MofC would cost less (as per my understanding of the DMG) than the WB.

Should I just come up with my own pricing for the Books and ignore the item creation cost charts in the DMG or should I just up and stick it to the "crafty bastard" player I have?

Or maybe my understanding of the books is faulty which isn't beyond my capacity. :smallbiggrin:

Please try to explain the discrepancy that I sense...if that's even possible... :smalltongue:

[Anderlith]

So you want to make Journey Books from the Sword of Truth series?

[Medic!]

Literally the second I read this I thought "Sepia Snake Sigil or Explosive Runes! YES!" But both are spells and shouldn't work on the other book :smallfrown:

What spell are you using for the basis of the cost to create the books? After a (very very) brief perusal, Clairvoyance looks like a likely candidate...not sure how that would mesh with the price of the mirror b/c I'm awful at crafting guidelines

[Qintopon]

An even better way to put it. We were thinking clairvoyance, but I don't understand permanancy either... would we need both?

[Qintopon]

Also the mirrors are 2,500 GP each while a book with clairvoyance book would cost more than that around 10,000 GP (a guesstimation) WITHOUT any permanency cast according to the DMG...

[icefractal]

Go with the similar item. The formula in the DMG is just an approximation, and doesn't take into account the whole picture. Sometimes it produces items that would be highly under-costed (continuous True Strike for 8K?) And other times it gives results that are too high - as in this case.

[ericgrau]

IIRC MoC is way underpriced. If you want they could be a good baseline since the ability to communicate at all is almost as good. Thus the more portable books might be the same price or maybe even slightly higher. Or assuming you ban MoC I'd base it more on at will sending, which is 81,000 gp. Hmm, that might be fine or it might be too much. But clairaudience isn't a good baseline either because of its limited range, whereas sending is unlimited range and is typically the best core spell for this sort of thing.

Well hopefully that gives you a price range at least. I'd say the rest depends on what you allow in terms of power level and optimization and such so it's up to you.

Instant communication really is a powerful effect that is hard to come by in D&D, at least without certain books. If you don't mind delayed communication then animal messenger is a good baseline meaning 2,160 gp for 1/day or 10,800 gp for at will. A speed of 5-10mph and a range of 100-200 miles might be reasonable. Then you just have to flavor it with the message traveling on the wind or something (whispering wind is also a good reference spell, btw).

[Forbiddenwar]

I would advise against "sticking it to the player" Remember that this is a game, and it;s important that everyone has fun. And remember rule 0. Just try to balance it. If the books are less functional then the mirrors, try to gage how much less and then perhaps reduce the price accordingly. We might be able to help with that. What book is MofC?

Actaully I think Message, a simple cantrip, is a far better spell match, from what I can understand in your description

[Medic!]

That's a pretty harsh difference. You shouldn't need permanency. I'm not 100% up on ways to mitigate costs...at first I thought about using Message since it's only a cantrip, but it doesn't really fit writing back and forth. Would Silent Image make more sense? That should drop the price to like 2,000?

[ericgrau]

Both run into range issues. If you don't mind giving the books a low range then that would reduce the cost a lot though.

Not having a visual really doesn't hurt communication much, if at all. Basically we're looking at 15,000-81,000 gp depending on optimization level. Maybe 13,000 gp from lack of visual. I mean MoC are one of the cheapest and best ways known on the interwebz and they come from dragon magazine. If you want to limit range, length of message, speed of transmission and/or number of uses you can drastically reduce that cost. There are various examples of those around 1,000-2,000 gp.

[willpell]

For the record, Permanency is not needed to create any magic item; the whole point of a magic item (other than potions and scrolls and such) is that they're "permanent" until destroyed. Even a Dispel Magic will only suppress them, while a Permanencied spell which gets dispelled is gone for good (many GMs houserule otherwise since it's kind of unfair, but per RAW Dispel ruins Permanency completely). Magic items cost lots of gold, XP, and the possession of a feat to produce; the whole point of going to all that trouble is to have something that is part of the world ever after, unless someone deliberately destroys it (usually via a Sunder or the like).

[killianh]

why not just refluff the mirrors? I think that would fix the problem entirely

[Kelb_Panthera]

Have you considered using wispering wind as the baseline spell?

At 2nd level, times CL3 times 1800 for use activated that's 10,800 Divide in half for noteably longer activation time (writing a message V standard action for most use activated items) for 5400. Has to be made at minimum two at a time since they're keyed to each other, so a pair of journey books for 10,800 total sounds about right to me.

Anybody see a good reason this doesn't sound right?

[prufock]

why not just refluff the mirrors? I think that would fix the problem entirely

Best answer.

Have you considered using the Amanuensis cantrip to price the item?

[Bronk]

There is a set of items called 'Talking Mugs' in Dragon 289.... when you fill them with water the bearers can talk to each other from anywhere on the same plane. Maybe you could use that as a start, just switching it to writing based communication?

[sdream]

I would give it to him for cheap, but let him know the magic is experimental.

If he uses it for fluff and basic stuff you were expecting cheap is appropriate.

If he tries to get fresh with it... it is experimental after all. Who knows how the magic will react when used oddly (hint, not the way he wants, but he could improve the books probably, by spending some more dough).

[Seatbelt]

"You can craft one of these books and it costs about 6K in gold, takes 3 days to make."


Wee problem solved?

[Forbiddenwar]

This brings back memories of the time I made a security blanket (calm emotions magic item). It was generally useless but fun to have. A touch attack with it could unrage a barbarian, but we never encountered any.

That is until our barbarian took frenzied rage, then it became the best tool in the game. Throwing a blanket over her head while she was trying to kill everything was a great moment of party synergy.

[Daftendirekt]

Have you considered the Sending Stones from the Magic Item Compendium?

[zanetheinsane]

The Contact Medallion (MIC90) uses telepathic bond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telepathicBond.htm) which as you note can be made permanent between two creatures (... or perhaps... books hint hint).

Or perhaps it's a variation of a Farspeaking Amulet (MIC99)? That uses clairaudience/clairvoyance and message.

That's a good starting point for what spells you think such an item would need in the crafting process. Then you just say "this is what these items cost". Ballpark it.

Perhaps it takes telepathic bond and amanuensis, the wonderful cantrip from Spell Compendium page 9 that lets you copy nonmagical text, which sounds like a wonderful explanation of why Explosive Runes doesn't work on it!

[Qintopon]

Thank you for all the advice, I've given my players options out of this thread, You guys rock!

[jackattack]

Why isn't this just Craft Wondrous Item, Sending?

The books stand in for the specific and familiar creatures.