Gish build advice (PF)

[Occasional Sage]

I'm coming up on my first Pathfinder game, and have a character concept all staked out. I'm wondering how to optimize the build, though, since there's so much new in PF to work with. The game is planned to run form levels 1-18, and the group (I've never played with any of them before) seem to be low on the optimizing scale.

ALLOWED: Core book, Advanced Players' Guide, Advanced Races, Complete Magic, Complete Divine, Advanced Combat, maybe one or two more on demand if I can make a good case. The DM's preference is to stay PF-only, but a REALLY good case could bring in 3.5 material.

CONCEPT: I want to play a highly-mobile melee character who doesn't own a weapon, but instead uses Stolen or else Improvised alternatives.

BUILD IDEAS: I'm leaning heavily toward a Magus (Spire Defender) with a two- or three-level dip in Fighter (Cad). Cad gives me a quick hit of feats and a small boost to the maneuvers I'd be likely to use. Alternately, a straight Magus build would work, but loses some flavor. I've just started looking at a Bard (Daredevil) build synergized with Sorcerer, since Arcane Strike would add the two together for effect.

I like the mess Magus makes of action economy, but I'm having trouble accepting the slooooooow spell progression and dips are KILLING me. I'm not finding any solid PrC either, and that's going to be HUGE in keeping my interest.

Advise me, Playground. You're my only hope!

EDIT: Can the Magus' Knowledge Pool really be used to scribe every spell on the list into my spellbook?

If I belong to a class that has a particular class feature, but have not reached the level at which it comes on-line, do I qualify for PrC and/or feats with the pre-req "class feature x"? I don't think I've ever tried to exploit that loophole and don't see anything RAW that closes it, though I'd sacktap a player with a DMG if they tried....

RE-EDIT: The Cad (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/cad)'s skill list is in addition to the Fighter's base list right? Cuz otherwise it's super-thin. Nope, the table marks these as replacement skills.

[avr]

An Oracle with the Metal mystery, the Dance of the Blades revelation, and the Steel Scarf revelation might do your mobile gish with improvised weapons better. Add the Iron Weapon revelation for more improvised weapons.

All the PF stuff about adding spells to your spellbook requires either a written copy of the spell or spell research over weeks. No mention of having the spell prepared helping that I can see.

The Cad makes no mention of this list replacing the fighters usual list so I think you're OK there.

[Corlindale]

I would go straight magus. Fighter dips will hurt your spell progression, that's not worth a few extra feats in my opinion. The Magus also has a ton of class features that help him being a good gish, which a fighter dip will also delay access to.

Good old wizard 5/Fighter 1/EK X may also serve you well. You will get more powerful spells, but you won't have as many ways to directly blend spells and melee. A Magus will thus probably feel more like a gish in actual play - but an EK will get 9th level spells.

If you go EK I would recommend being Diviner with the Foresight subschool, and making a crit-focused build. The Prescience power of the Foresight school works really well for that.


If I belong to a class that has a particular class feature, but have not reached the level at which it comes on-line, do I qualify for PrC and/or feats with the pre-req "class feature x"?

No.

[Larpus]

Seeing as this game will start at level 1, I think that Magus is the best way to have a gish character as with EK you'd have to start out as either a Fighter with no magical ability or a Wizard with no combat prowess; and concept and feel seem very important for you.

I agree that long dips are hurtful for most (if not all) half casters, which is what you are; however, as you seem very interested in having maneuver options, my advice is to focus on one (it's hard to excel at more than one if you're not a Fighter) and dipping one level of Maneuver Master Monk instead.

For that you get a free Improved [Maneuver] feat with no pre-reqs, which is better than the Cad's lvl2 ability and while it does hurt your BAB and HP a bit, it also helps your saves, so it's all good.

You also get Unarmed Strike, so you're considered armed even before you get a proper weapon.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that the Great [Maneuver] feats only require the Improved version and BAB +6, none of them require the Improved's pre-req feat (didn't find any that does, at least).

[Occasional Sage]

Seeing as this game will start at level 1, I think that Magus is the best way to have a gish character as with EK you'd have to start out as either a Fighter with no magical ability or a Wizard with no combat prowess; and concept and feel seem very important for you.

I agree that long dips are hurtful for most (if not all) half casters, which is what you are; however, as you seem very interested in having maneuver options, my advice is to focus on one (it's hard to excel at more than one if you're not a Fighter) and dipping one level of Maneuver Master Monk instead.

For that you get a free Improved [Maneuver] feat with no pre-reqs, which is better than the Cad's lvl2 ability and while it does hurt your BAB and HP a bit, it also helps your saves, so it's all good.

You also get Unarmed Strike, so you're considered armed even before you get a proper weapon.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that the Great [Maneuver] feats only require the Improved version and BAB +6, none of them require the Improved's pre-req feat (didn't find any that does, at least).

They are prereqs, according to the srd.

Also, two levels of Cad get me two feats along with the dirty fighting ability. Monk adds some handy AC and such, but only if I don't use the armored casting of the magus which is really hard to beat.