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tbok1992
2012-09-07, 01:57 AM
There've been a lot of "The Dumbest Monsters of D&D" comedy lists on the internet, so I fgiured, why don't we do a topic on the other comically ludicrous stuff from D&D's history, such as magic items, races, setting bits, spells/class abilities, you name it!

I'll start with a few ridiculous magic items I've encountered over the years:

Bagpipes of th Damned: From the Libris Mortis, why oh why did they choose that of all instruments to give the "Play this and your summoned undead get +4 Turn Resistance" power to? Couldn't they have given this to an instrument with more dignity, like a fiddle or a horn?

Vasharan Offal Bag: From The Book of Vile Darkness, it's essentially a giant bag of poop that summons a giant cockroach once a day. And it's made by this uber-evil race of humans who really, really should've at least been more creative than "Crap in a bag+make it magic = ROACHIE!". Though Sloth is a deadly sin...

THE NIPPLE CLAMP OF EXQUISITE PAIN!: Also from The Book of Vile Darkness. When I hear that item's name, I don't so much think "Evilly perverse sociopath" as "Insane wizard who really, really needs to get laid."

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-07, 02:06 AM
Favored by tem-et-nu, a feat from sandstorm, gives you the ability to rebuke, get this, hippopotami. That's right, you get the ability to rebuke freakin' hippo's.

Plus, if you lose Tem-et-nu's favor, you take damage as if bitten by a hippo. That's right, anger your god and the "spirit of the hippo" chomps your butt.

How stupid is that?

SgtCarnage92
2012-09-07, 02:33 AM
Favored by tem-et-nu, a feat from sandstorm, gives you the ability to rebuke, get this, hippopotami. That's right, you get the ability to rebuke freakin' hippo's.

Plus, if you lose Tem-et-nu's favor, you take damage as if bitten by a hippo. That's right, anger your god and the "spirit of the hippo" chomps your butt.

How stupid Awesome is that?

I fixed it for you. :smallbiggrin:

Kaww
2012-09-07, 02:33 AM
Magic items in Eberron campaign setting. Caster level requirements compared to actual caster's level in Eberron is beyond stupid.

More on Eberron - a very experienced (several years of war) and powerful general is level five or lower...

TuggyNE
2012-09-07, 03:44 AM
Magic items in Eberron campaign setting. Caster level requirements compared to actual caster's level in Eberron is beyond stupid.

Are you sure you're not mistaking effective item caster level for minimum caster level required? It's a common mistake, but the caster level an item has is not (generally) the one its creator had.

king.com
2012-09-07, 04:17 AM
For me its the simple things like the wise old scholar is the one with the best eye sight

Kaww
2012-09-07, 04:33 AM
Are you sure you're not mistaking effective item caster level for minimum caster level required? It's a common mistake, but the caster level an item has is not (generally) the one its creator had.

I'm pretty sure that if CL is in the required xp/gp/CL/required spells to make an item it's the required CL of the item creator. I could be wrong...

Ashtagon
2012-09-07, 04:38 AM
Bagpipes of the Damned: From the Libris Mortis, why oh why did they choose that of all instruments to give the "Play this and your summoned undead get +4 Turn Resistance" power to? Couldn't they have given this to an instrument with more dignity, like a fiddle or a horn?


Classic D&D had an NPC called Prince Brannart MacGregor, a Scottish lich who ruled a principality in a kingdom of magic. Those bagpipes were made for him.

Stupid class feature from Sandstorm is the sand shaper, who could make a ridiculously hard DC check that could take an hour or more, to shape sand for a matter of minutes.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-07, 06:26 AM
Classic D&D had an NPC called Prince Brannart MacGregor, a Scottish lich who ruled a principality in a kingdom of magic. Those bagpipes were made for him.

Stupid class feature from Sandstorm is the sand shaper, who could make a ridiculously hard DC check that could take an hour or more, to shape sand for a matter of minutes.

By itself that one's not so hot, but combined with some shapesand and the gloves of sandshaping you can effectively make Gaara from Naruto.

Jay R
2012-09-07, 07:26 AM
Bagpipes of th Damned: From the Libris Mortis, why oh why did they choose that of all instruments to give the "Play this and your summoned undead get +4 Turn Resistance" power to? Couldn't they have given this to an instrument with more dignity, like a fiddle or a horn?

Not accurately. Bagpipes are actually used in battle to keep the troops fighting. They're loud enough to be heard over the sound of battle. Scottish battle units always have a piper or two for that purpose.

Wardog
2012-09-07, 07:26 AM
Bagpipes of th Damned: From the Libris Mortis, why oh why did they choose that of all instruments to give the "Play this and your summoned undead get +4 Turn Resistance" power to? Couldn't they have given this to an instrument with more dignity, like a fiddle or a horn?


What's undignified about bagpipes?

Acanous
2012-09-07, 07:33 AM
What's undignified is that they made it boost undead, instead of giving all your allies within hearing a free use of Rage along with Endurance, or Diehard if they already have endurance.

Fun little fact: Most uses of bardic music don't have a cap on allies affected, it's just "All allies who can hear the bard play". I picked Bagpipes for my Bard/Marshal/Legendary leader, because you can hear Bagpipes from forever and a day away. The Artillary can get bonus to hit while you're in melee halfway across the field.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-07, 08:19 AM
What's undignified is that they made it boost undead, instead of giving all your allies within hearing a free use of Rage along with Endurance, or Diehard if they already have endurance.

Fun little fact: Most uses of bardic music don't have a cap on allies affected, it's just "All allies who can hear the bard play". I picked Bagpipes for my Bard/Marshal/Legendary leader, because you can hear Bagpipes from forever and a day away. The Artillary can get bonus to hit while you're in melee halfway across the field.

Actually, only inspire courage doesn't have a listed maximum range, but it's the best of the bunch anyway so I guess it doesn't really matter much that the others are capped.

hiryuu
2012-09-07, 01:40 PM
Magic items in Eberron campaign setting. Caster level requirements compared to actual caster's level in Eberron is beyond stupid.

There are high level casters in Eberron. Most of them are just evil. Or dead. *cough*MordaintheFleshweaver*cough*


More on Eberron - a very experienced (several years of war) and powerful general is level five or lower...

And the average soldier is a level 2 warrior. NPCs do not get to use the XP chart that PCs use. What's your point?

Ashdate
2012-09-07, 01:53 PM
Duergar Beard Quills in 4e.

Edit: sorry, "non-monster" stupidity. My apologies.

tbok1992
2012-09-07, 02:34 PM
Favored by tem-et-nu, a feat from sandstorm, gives you the ability to rebuke, get this, hippopotami. That's right, you get the ability to rebuke freakin' hippo's.

Plus, if you lose Tem-et-nu's favor, you take damage as if bitten by a hippo. That's right, anger your god and the "spirit of the hippo" chomps your butt.

How stupid is that?

I'd have to disagree with you there. If there's anything one should know about hippos, it is that they will @$%# you up if you mess with them. They've got massively sharp teeth, body like a tank made of meat, and a brutal sense of territoriality. There's a reason they're the large mammal responsible for the most fatalities in Africa.

And also, on those bagpipes, I guess it's because when you think "Silly instruments," Bagpipes are the second thing that comes to mind, right after the accordion. Although, an accordion-based magic item would be good for making a "Weird Al As A Bard" PC, which would probably the bet character concept in the history of anything.

Plus, on the stupid magic item front, there's also that KKK level racist anti-drow bow from Weapons of Legacy, whose name I forget. In fact, I find the concept of specific weapons made to exterminate certain races (Like goblins or ogres) to be kind of disturbing. It'd be like if we had a +2 Shotgun of Killing Mexicans or a +5 Machete of Die Whitey Die in real life. Though that's less "comically stupid" than "disturbingly stupid".

Poil
2012-09-07, 03:49 PM
I'd have to disagree with you there. If there's anything one should know about hippos, it is that they will @$%# you up if you mess with them. They've got massively sharp teeth, body like a tank made of meat, and a brutal sense of territoriality. There's a reason they're the large mammal responsible for the most fatalities in Africa.

While it's true that hippos are amazingly badass and dangerous in real life Africa, they're not that dangerous in dnd. Also how many times have you ever seen a hippo when roleplaying? You're not likely to hear someone say "If we only could have turned one of those hippos our party wouldn't have been wiped out.".

TuggyNE
2012-09-07, 03:59 PM
I'm pretty sure that if CL is in the required xp/gp/CL/required spells to make an item it's the required CL of the item creator. I could be wrong...

You would be right, except that it's listed in a different section from the prerequisites, separated by a semicolon.

Also, the notational entry for Caster Level says this:
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

Further, under Prerequisites,
Typically, a list of prerequisites includes one feat and one or more spells (or some other requirement in addition to the feat).

The rules are written rather confusingly at times, but I believe that's the most consistent way to interpret them.

Slipperychicken
2012-09-07, 04:40 PM
You're not likely to hear someone say "If we only could have turned one of those hippos our party wouldn't have been wiped out.".

Unless, of course, you're playing a Crazy Awesome campaign and are getting mobbed by hippo swarms.

Rallicus
2012-09-07, 05:21 PM
Don't know much about supplement stuff, but Hand of the Mage always bothered me, even when I first learned about it as a kid.

Trying to imagine someone adventuring with a lobbed off, mummified hand around their neck so they can lift 5 pound objects with their mind just seems bizarre.

I picture some NPC kid running up to the wearer, going "Sir... why are you wearing a chopped off hand?", at which point the wearer launches the kid's hat 15 feet away and snarls, "DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? THIS IS TRUE POWER!"

Just seems ridiculous.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-07, 05:29 PM
I'd have to disagree with you there. If there's anything one should know about hippos, it is that they will @$%# you up if you mess with them. They've got massively sharp teeth, body like a tank made of meat, and a brutal sense of territoriality. There's a reason they're the large mammal responsible for the most fatalities in Africa.
While all this is true, IRL, in D&D hippo's are isolated to a single terain type and have to compete with magical beasts and dragons. Then there's the fact that the feat, unique in all of 3.5, gives you the ability to rebuke/command, not just animals; one of the weakest creature types; but one specific type of animal, making it one of the weakest feats in 3.5. Even in sandstorm it kind of jumps out as an odd duck and kind of random.

And also, on those bagpipes, I guess it's because when you think "Silly instruments," Bagpipes are the second thing that comes to mind, right after the accordion. Although, an accordion-based magic item would be good for making a "Weird Al As A Bard" PC, which would probably the bet character concept in the history of anything. I couldn't argue against this if I tried hard. :smallamused:


Plus, on the stupid magic item front, there's also that KKK level racist anti-drow bow from Weapons of Legacy, whose name I forget. In fact, I find the concept of specific weapons made to exterminate certain races (Like goblins or ogres) to be kind of disturbing. It'd be like if we had a +2 Shotgun of Killing Mexicans or a +5 Machete of Die Whitey Die in real life. Though that's less "comically stupid" than "disturbingly stupid".

Racism IRL is born of ignorance of the fact that human beings are all basically the same.

Racism in fantasy is based in the knowledge that there are some "races" of people, though species would be more accurate, that are naturally inclined to try and kill you because it sounds like fun.

Fantasy racism has a little more validity than its RL counterpart, and is thus less disturbing, IMO.

To quote a webcomic, "If I was going to be racist, I'd pick the race that was most likely to tear out my spine, for the fun of it, too."

Btw, "machete of 'die whitey, die,'" made me snort with laughter. I'm caucasian and inclined toward dark humor. :smallamused:

Tectonic Robot
2012-09-07, 05:42 PM
Yo, dudezles, check this one oouuuuutttt /Skaterdude

It costs less to purchase a ten foot ladder than a ten foot pole.

Steward
2012-09-07, 06:36 PM
Don't know much about supplement stuff, but Hand of the Mage always bothered me, even when I first learned about it as a kid.

Trying to imagine someone adventuring with a lobbed off, mummified hand around their neck so they can lift 5 pound objects with their mind just seems bizarre.

I picture some NPC kid running up to the wearer, going "Sir... why are you wearing a chopped off hand?", at which point the wearer launches the kid's hat 15 feet away and snarls, "DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? THIS IS TRUE POWER!"

Just seems ridiculous.

That actually seems pretty hillarious!

karkus
2012-09-07, 07:13 PM
I picture some NPC kid running up to the wearer, going "Sir... why are you wearing a chopped off hand?", at which point the wearer launches the kid's hat 15 feet away and snarls, "DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? THIS IS TRUE POWER!"

Okay, I'll admit it. I completely lost it at this point.

The Glyphstone
2012-09-07, 07:21 PM
Yo, dudezles, check this one oouuuuutttt /Skaterdude

It costs less to purchase a ten foot ladder than a ten foot pole.

Yeah, but cutting a ladder in half doesn't get you two ten foot poles, it gets you two halves of a broken ladder. Sure, you can still try and poke things with them, but if that's what you want, sturdy tree branches cost even less than ten foot ladders.

Steward
2012-09-07, 07:37 PM
Yeah, but cutting a ladder in half doesn't get you two ten foot poles, it gets you two halves of a broken ladder. Sure, you can still try and poke things with them, but if that's what you want, sturdy tree branches cost even less than ten foot ladders.

That just makes it more problematic. A ladder requires much more craftsmanship and time to make, whereas a ten foot pole is equivalent to a polished tree branch. It would be like an automobile that was cheaper than a wooden plank with wheels on it -- a low-end skateboard.

Slipperychicken
2012-09-07, 07:42 PM
I picture some NPC kid running up to the wearer, going "Sir... why are you wearing a chopped off hand?", at which point the wearer launches the kid's hat 15 feet away and snarls, "DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? THIS IS TRUE POWER!"


I want to play in this campaign.

It's also an Elf hand, specifically. So the next Dwarf I'm playing will wear a Hand of the Mage, which he personally chopped off an Elf and had mummified into a magic item. The Elf is probably still running around somewhere with only 1 hand.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-07, 09:01 PM
I want to play in this campaign.

It's also an Elf hand, specifically. So the next Dwarf I'm playing will wear a Hand of the Mage, which he personally chopped off an Elf and had mummified into a magic item. The Elf is probably still running around somewhere with only 1 hand.

Would be more hilarious if it's just a chopped off hand, not a magic item. "Oh, I see you got a Hand of the Mage?" "What now? Nah, the bugger was an archer. Chopped off his drawing hand and decided to keep it."

Milo v3
2012-09-07, 09:15 PM
So the next Dwarf I'm playing will wear a Hand of the Mage, which he personally chopped off an Elf and had mummified into a magic item. The Elf is probably still running around somewhere with only 1 hand.

The next Elf I'm playing will wear a Hand of the Mage, which he personally chopped off his wrist and had mummified into a magic item. He lost his other hand to a dwarf.

Exediron
2012-09-07, 11:18 PM
Don't know much about supplement stuff, but Hand of the Mage always bothered me, even when I first learned about it as a kid.

Trying to imagine someone adventuring with a lobbed off, mummified hand around their neck so they can lift 5 pound objects with their mind just seems bizarre.

I picture some NPC kid running up to the wearer, going "Sir... why are you wearing a chopped off hand?", at which point the wearer launches the kid's hat 15 feet away and snarls, "DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? THIS IS TRUE POWER!"

Just seems ridiculous.

This actually made me giggle out loud. Were I the sort, I would quote it in my signature.

Korivan
2012-09-07, 11:24 PM
The one that comes most to mind is actually from 2nd edition.

Haste. Doubles your speed and attacks per round and -2 initative. Not bad for a tanker, not bad at all. However, it ages you a year. So lets say haste lasts 10 rounds (round=minute in 2nd). You experience 20 minutes of life, and age a year..... a whole year, for a few more minutes. And that's not the worst part. In the DMG, any time you rapidly age a year (or rapidly age at all I think), you have to make a system shock or die.

Yes, you can die from haste, you can die from a buff. No, I'm not lying.

Kaww
2012-09-08, 02:11 AM
There are high level casters in Eberron. Most of them are just evil. Or dead. *cough*MordaintheFleshweaver*cough*

There certainly are, I just don't see them spending their days forging rings for the adventurers of the world. Forge Ring feat has a CL 12 requirement.


And the average soldier is a level 2 warrior. NPCs do not get to use the XP chart that PCs use. What's your point?

I don't know what those mid level characters (such as some of the nobles lvl 7 - rogues, aristocrats etc. that never left their home) did at home if fighting a war gave three PC class levels to a general. IRK it was a lvl 4 paladin running a floating fortress somewhere.

Also evil NPCs (the PCs are supposed to fight) are still NPCs, do they get xp from the same chart? If so they probably had to kill entire civilizations by themselves to get to be lvl 10.


You would be right, except that it's listed in a different section from the prerequisites, separated by a semicolon.


Open Eberron campaign setting for 3.5 there are no semicolons, it's right next to the price and required feats.

Reluctance
2012-09-08, 02:23 AM
The one that comes most to mind is actually from 2nd edition.

...

Yes, you can die from haste, you can die from a buff. No, I'm not lying.

It's AD&D. Also the edition most of the stupid monsters came from. You candie from just about anything.

Jeff the Green
2012-09-08, 02:51 AM
Yes, you can die from haste, you can die from a buff. No, I'm not lying.

You mean like amphetamines?

Celisasu
2012-09-08, 03:35 AM
2E is the home of 90% of crazy stupid awesome ****. I mean what other edition has a wizard visit a strange land where if you put a silver coin into a red box with weird lettering apparently named "Cola", it'll hand you a can filled with a magical black fizzy delicious concoction? And then return to his world, create a simulacrum of said thing...and the simulacrum is evil? And will either poison you or give you acne depending on it's mood if you buy one of it's drinks?

TuggyNE
2012-09-08, 04:00 AM
Open Eberron campaign setting for 3.5 there are no semicolons, it's right next to the price and required feats.

Hmm, that's very strange, and seems non-standard.

hewhosaysfish
2012-09-08, 04:28 AM
There are high level casters in Eberron. Most of them are just evil. Or dead. *cough*MordaintheFleshweaver*cough*

There certainly are, I just don't see them spending their days forging rings for the adventurers of the world. Forge Ring feat has a CL 12 requirement.

Of course the evil high-level casters of the world spend all their time forging magical rings for adventurers. They're obviously planning to later create one all -powerful ring to turn all those luckless adventurers into wraith lieutenants for when they take over the world.

tbok1992
2012-09-08, 04:41 AM
Racism IRL is born of ignorance of the fact that human beings are all basically the same.

Racism in fantasy is based in the knowledge that there are some "races" of people, though species would be more accurate, that are naturally inclined to try and kill you because it sounds like fun.

Fantasy racism has a little more validity than its RL counterpart, and is thus less disturbing, IMO.

To quote a webcomic, "If I was going to be racist, I'd pick the race that was most likely to tear out my spine, for the fun of it, too."

Btw, "machete of 'die whitey, die,'" made me snort with laughter. I'm caucasian and inclined toward dark humor. :smallamused:

Actually, since a lot of the "evil" races, even including such vile savages as gnolls, have shown capacity for free will and even goodness, I'd attribute the racial "evil" of them to:

A) Being born into and growing up in broken and deranged societies that reward various degrees of cruelty, maliciousness and evil and attempt to squash anyone who doesn't fit that mold.

B) having very real and very malevolent patron gods who throw around their power and ensure the higher ups in said malevolent civilization have some of said power if they act according to the god's personal whims to ensure the broken society stays essentially the same.

C)Having the other civilized races hunt your kind down due to the atrocities committed due to A) and B) molding your race into a bunch of neurotic murderers, thus showing any who would stray from the "path" that it'd be safer to stay in the broken society rather than go "Out there" to a world that hates them.

Anybody else agree with that theory?

Erik Vale
2012-09-08, 04:45 AM
*Raises hand*

Jay R
2012-09-08, 08:37 AM
The entire racism / evil sub-thread here comes from the most hilariously stupid concept in D&D:

The alignment system.

The easiest way to see how ridiculous it is is to realize that it assumes some sentient beings are evil (or good), totally independent of their actions or thoughts.

No magic bagpipe or mummified hand can compete with that idea for stupidity.

The Glyphstone
2012-09-08, 08:54 AM
On that line of thought, non-lawful Bards. Because only rebels can be free-thinkers with actual creative spirit, unthinking slaves to the oppressive hand of the Man can't.

Lord_Gareth
2012-09-08, 09:08 AM
I do believe that the king of 'hilariously stupid' would be Bear Bearington the Bearbearian, Lord of all Bears.

He's an anthropomorphic bear werebear bear totem barbarian bear lord bear warrior. He took Leadership to pick up a Sentinel of Brharri (Bear Mage) as a cohort, as well as some bear followers. So he's a bear that gets so angry that he turns into a bear that turns into a bear, commands bears, rides bears, and has a bear mage serving him who (I. Kid. You. Not.) has an ability named summon bear cavalry.

This. Will. Get. Grizzly.

tbok1992
2012-09-08, 01:08 PM
On that line of thought, non-lawful Bards. Because only rebels can be free-thinkers with actual creative spirit, unthinking slaves to the oppressive hand of the Man can't.

Speaking of stupid Bard related things, there's this board's own Pervirtuoso build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167278&page=3), which uses the Perform [Sexual] skill from The Book of Erotic Fantasy combined with a Prestige Class that allows you to use any Perform skill for bardic abilities, combined with wanton abuse of a familiar to make the most wrong Bard build ever.

Talanic
2012-09-08, 01:54 PM
Okay. Stupid non-monster things from D&D.

As a fan of real heroes, I have to nominate the Paladin class, as written / confined by the rules of the game.

I think we all know the problems with the class. Class features that restrict the behavior of the other players. No allowances for innocent mistakes. Prevention of actual good behavior (like showing mercy - oops! You tied him up and tried to reform him; that means you just associated with an evil creature.)

The Paladin often winds up being played like some kind of xenophobic sociopath - exactly the opposite of the noble, self-sacrificing warrior that he's supposed to be.

navar100
2012-09-08, 02:04 PM
The infamous Orb spells of 3E have an ancestor in 2E called Chromatic Orb from the Wizard's Handbook. It was a 1st level spell that created a colored orb doing some damage. As you gained levels the color would change and the damage would increase or even change in severity of harm. You could choose which ever color/effect you want you were able to cast. Eventually you would be able to cast a Black Chromatic Orb of Death. Save or die. In 2E a wizard could cast a 1st level save or die spell. Not save or suck, save or die.

hiryuu
2012-09-08, 03:34 PM
There certainly are, I just don't see them spending their days forging rings for the adventurers of the world. Forge Ring feat has a CL 12 requirement.

Oh, that. You know the entire world was once an empire ruled by demons that enslaved dragons that lasted form millions of years, right? Or that the continent was once ruled by a magical kingdom of goblins? Little things like that. There's probably more rings lying in wait out there than there is gold to mine.


I don't know what those mid level characters (such as some of the nobles lvl 7 - rogues, aristocrats etc. that never left their home) did at home if fighting a war gave three PC class levels to a general. IRK it was a lvl 4 paladin running a floating fortress somewhere.

Also evil NPCs (the PCs are supposed to fight) are still NPCs, do they get xp from the same chart? If so they probably had to kill entire civilizations by themselves to get to be lvl 10.

NPCs do not level the way PCs do. They have exactly the levels they need to do what they do. No more, no less. Yes, it's meta, but that way you don't run into, say, tippy.

Nepenthe
2012-09-08, 07:51 PM
There's an official, published source for water wings. Just imagine that half-orc barbarian doggie-paddling across a river in floaties.

Arbane
2012-09-08, 08:04 PM
Unless, of course, you're playing a Crazy Awesome campaign and are getting mobbed by hippo swarms.

Considering how small creatures have to be to qualify as a Swarm, you'd have to be playing Colossal-sized creatures.

Which would be rather awesome.

toapat
2012-09-08, 08:22 PM
There's an official, published source for water wings. Just imagine that half-orc barbarian doggie-paddling across a river in floaties.

the sad part is, they are some of the most useful magical item in the game, after all, most characters are going to have the inherent flaw "Water Soluability".

Asto Bagpipes: Of course it only gives a bonus to the dead, only those with Perform (Bagpipes) can survive the sound.

Asto Blessed by Tem-Et-Nu:

Yep, complete poop. Some Turn/Rebuke varients are Absurdly powerful because of how Extra Turning affects all turns you get simultaineously. This only adds slightly more options to turn undead without actually improving it (IE: more charges)

5a Violista
2012-09-08, 09:33 PM
On that line of thought, non-lawful Bards. Because only rebels can be free-thinkers with actual creative spirit, unthinking slaves to the oppressive hand of the Man can't.

It's because the government outlawed art and music. That's the most real excuse. Anyone caught singing, playing the violin, painting, drawing, or anything of the sort is to be cast into jail forever.

That's why all the Bards are non-lawful.

navar100
2012-09-09, 01:24 AM
2E's Priest's Handbook offered specialty priests kits for clerics. They were based on various themes and used the spell spheres to determine which spells a priest had access in addition to a couple of class abilities. A priest would have major or minor access to a sphere. Major access meant the priest would eventually get all spells, capping at 7th level in 2E. Minor access meant you only get up to third level spells.

1) The Cure Wounds spells were in Healing sphere. Not every priest got access to Healing, so there exists clerics who did not heal. Not "stupid" per se, but for 2E that was a big deal of a disadvantage. I learned that from experience playing a cleric of Justice/Revenge. Even the DM saw how harmful it was in play and agreed to allow me Healing sphere.

2) The priest of Guardian only had minor access to the Guardian sphere.

3) I don't remember which priest kit, but I know there was one that had minor access to Summoning sphere. There were no spells in Summoning of less than 4th level. (2E's Tome of Magic had a few, but Priest's Handbook was published before it so it only took into account PHB spells of which no Summoning spell below 4th level existed.)

Doorhandle
2012-09-09, 03:05 AM
Considering how small creatures have to be to qualify as a Swarm, you'd have to be playing Colossal-sized creatures.

Which would be rather awesome.

...Gonna have to put that on on the backburner, along with the "Sky whaling" and "masters of the angry fist" ideas I have...


Actually, since a lot of the "evil" races, even including such vile savages as gnolls, have shown capacity for free will and even goodness, I'd attribute the racial "evil" of them to:

A) Being born into and growing up in broken and deranged societies that reward various degrees of cruelty, maliciousness and evil and attempt to squash anyone who doesn't fit that mold.

B) having very real and very malevolent patron gods who throw around their power and ensure the higher ups in said malevolent civilization have some of said power if they act according to the god's personal whims to ensure the broken society stays essentially the same.

C)Having the other civilized races hunt your kind down due to the atrocities committed due to A) and B) molding your race into a bunch of neurotic murderers, thus showing any who would stray from the "path" that it'd be safer to stay in the broken society rather than go "Out there" to a world that hates them.

Anybody else agree with that theory?

Yes, Except in the case of evil outsiders. Then it's because they are literally made of evil/selfishness/crazy ect.

pffh
2012-09-09, 03:08 AM
...Gonna have to put that on on the backburner, along with the "Sky whaling" and "masters of the angry fist" ideas I have...

For sky whaling there are the Soarwhales in the Arms and Equipment guide.

Slipperychicken
2012-09-09, 09:30 AM
Considering how small creatures have to be to qualify as a Swarm, you'd have to be playing Colossal-sized creatures.

Which would be rather awesome.

By "swarm" I meant in the sense of "huge numbers". The DMGII Mob template would be far more appropriate for emulating a hippo stampede.


Hippopotamus Mobs ruin people in a Grapple. CR8, +41 grapple mod, automatically deals 5d6 to any creature whose space it occupies. Good luck breaking out of that at without magic.

Jay R
2012-09-09, 10:01 AM
The most ridiculous published addition was Elves in Space Spelljammer. And yes, it had mobs of (intelligent) hippos.

Shred-Bot
2012-09-09, 10:19 AM
It's because the government outlawed art and music. That's the most real excuse. Anyone caught singing, playing the violin, painting, drawing, or anything of the sort is to be cast into jail forever.

That's why all the Bards are non-lawful.

So... all D&D campaigns take place in the town from Footloose?

Actually a Footloose-style subplot could be a fun way to screw with your players between real plot arcs.

tbok1992
2012-09-09, 02:31 PM
The most ridiculous published addition was Elves in Space Spelljammer. And yes, it had mobs of (intelligent) hippos.

You shut your mouth about Spelljammer. I'm still angry about the fact that boring ol' Neverwinter was the last setting to come out for 4e instead of Spelljammer, which I will say to my grave was one of the most creative things D&D ever did. Though I am appreciative about the Epic Destiny in Heroes of the Elemental Chaos that allows you to become a Regiar.

Wraith
2012-09-09, 02:57 PM
Trying to imagine someone adventuring with a lobbed off, mummified hand around their neck so they can lift 5 pound objects with their mind just seems bizarre.

This is the sort of magic item that I adore owning in my games. Especially if you're being sneaky and try to push the GM's definition of 'item' a little.

For example: The human brain weighs about 3 pounds.

*SCHLORP!!!* :smallbiggrin:

toapat
2012-09-09, 03:24 PM
You shut your mouth about Spelljammer. I'm still angry about the fact that boring ol' Neverwinter was the last setting to come out for 4e instead of Spelljammer, which I will say to my grave was one of the most creative things D&D ever did. Though I am appreciative about the Epic Destiny in Heroes of the Elemental Chaos that allows you to become a Regiar.

there is a Spelljammer sourcebook for 4th. there isnt one for 3.5

tbok1992
2012-09-09, 03:53 PM
I thought that was (sort of) the opposite. While Spelljammers themselves got statted out in 4e's Manual of the Planes, and there were a few references here and there to the line (Including the Neogi in the Monster Manual 2 and the aforementioned Regiar Epic Destiny), they didn't actually give it the full setting treatment. Whereas in 3e at least it got an updated version in Dragon magazine.

Craft (Cheese)
2012-09-09, 03:56 PM
there is a Spelljammer sourcebook for 4th. there isnt one for 3.5

Sortof. A few caveats should be mentioned:

1. The whole "the planes are planets and you can fly between them with spaceships" thing is added in as a part of the default Nentir Vale setting. It is *not* a separate campaign setting book.

2. All the stuff about Space Elves, the hippo people, and the giant space hamster have been stripped out.

Eldan
2012-09-09, 04:02 PM
Yeah, sorry. THat's like saying the Manual of the Planes for third was a Planescape book. There were some elements in there, but none of the unique spirit.

Dire Moose
2012-09-10, 09:43 AM
This is the sort of magic item that I adore owning in my games. Especially if you're being sneaky and try to push the GM's definition of 'item' a little.

For example: The human brain weighs about 3 pounds.

*SCHLORP!!!* :smallbiggrin:

That's one of the more inventive bits of munchkinry I've seen. I want to see someone try using Mage Hand like this.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-09-10, 09:52 AM
You can't, for almost all spells you need line of sigh and line of effect. The skull, face muscles, skin, and possibly head wear block it so no, you cannot use a level 1 spell (or cheap item) to play with someone/thing brain.

QuidEst
2012-09-10, 09:54 AM
This is the sort of magic item that I adore owning in my games. Especially if you're being sneaky and try to push the GM's definition of 'item' a little.

For example: The human brain weighs about 3 pounds.

*SCHLORP!!!* :smallbiggrin:

Sorry… they already have that one covered.

Target: One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.
Brains are attended objects. If it works, it must mean they were :smallcool: letting their mind wander.

Wardog
2012-09-10, 10:06 AM
Plus, on the stupid magic item front, there's also that KKK level racist anti-drow bow from Weapons of Legacy, whose name I forget. In fact, I find the concept of specific weapons made to exterminate certain races (Like goblins or ogres) to be kind of disturbing. It'd be like if we had a +2 Shotgun of Killing Mexicans or a +5 Machete of Die Whitey Die in real life. Though that's less "comically stupid" than "disturbingly stupid".

If there are real physical and/or magical differences between the "races" (which are really more like different species) then it seems reasonable that different ones would have different vulnerabilities, or that spells could be tailored to affect one but not the other. The only racism would be how they were used.

I could easily imagine a human army keeping a stock of dedicated anti-X weapons to use against various threats - including anti-human weapons as most of their enemies are other human kingdoms.

What was far more dubious (in my opinion) was the old rule that only Evil rangers could chose their own race as their favoured enemy.

Tvtyrant
2012-09-10, 10:26 AM
For sky whaling there are the Soarwhales in the Arms and Equipment guide.

My solution was to apply the Half-Dragon template to whales, which gets them wings and weird flipper-claws. Fear the flipper-claws!

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00003XOofh1MoCQ/s/750/750/harbor-seal-flipper-claws-015739.jpg

They actually work really well as flying ships, since their immense whaleen strength makes a light load pretty high.

Wraith
2012-09-10, 10:31 AM
Sorry… they already have that one covered.

Brains are attended objects. If it works, it must mean they were :smallcool: letting their mind wander.

Ba-dum-TISH! (http://instantrimshot.com/) :smalltongue:

I know it doesn't work like that, but I always like to try. Sometimes - just sometimes - the Rule of Funny wins out.

Okay, so, something stupid that isn't a monster.... Free Actions always make me wonder. Sometimes they're arbitrarily more complicated than swinging a sword, which none-the-less takes a full round, and the game can go straight to hell if it gets abused.
Sometimes, some games get everything they deserve when someone works out the Peasant Railgun. :smalltongue:

Doorhandle
2012-09-11, 04:26 AM
Ba-dum-TISH! (http://instantrimshot.com/) :smalltongue:

I know it doesn't work like that, but I always like to try. Sometimes - just sometimes - the Rule of Funny wins out.

Okay, so, something stupid that isn't a monster.... Free Actions always make me wonder. Sometimes they're arbitrarily more complicated than swinging a sword, which none-the-less takes a full round, and the game can go straight to hell if it gets abused.
Sometimes, some games get everything they deserve when someone works out the Peasant Railgun. :smalltongue:

That's a stupid munchkin thing. The very rules that let you pass the pig along that quickly also mean when the last guy throws it it will just travel at the normal speed that peasant can throw it, relativity and acceleration be dammed.

Zombimode
2012-09-11, 05:30 AM
Sometimes, some games get everything they deserve when someone works out the Peasant Railgun. :smalltongue:

The peasant railgun is the epitome of Munchkinism.
It selectively picks some abstract rules, but then introduces "common sense" or pseudo-real world physics to produce some brocken effect (and ingnoring undisired side effects, of course) and then trying to pass of the thing as entirely supported by the rules.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-09-11, 06:44 AM
You don't use the commoner railgun as a weapon, you use it as an instant transport device :smalltongue:

Deepbluediver
2012-09-11, 08:36 AM
Free Actions always make me wonder. Sometimes they're arbitrarily more complicated than swinging a sword, which none-the-less takes a full round, and the game can go straight to hell if it gets abused.


One of the DMs I gamed with houseruled in a version that limited us to 6 free actions a turn (1 second each) and that talking was only a free action if you said less than three words. This was essentially his way of trying to curtail the hour-long debates/planning sessions we had every time we spotted some new monster or entered combat.

Jay R
2012-09-11, 12:13 PM
One of the DMs I gamed with houseruled in a version that limited us to 6 free actions a turn (1 second each) and that talking was only a free action if you said less than three words. This was essentially his way of trying to curtail the hour-long debates/planning sessions we had every time we spotted some new monster or entered combat.

My response is that talking is a free action, but deciding what to say is not. I'll pause the action to let you shout out orders or threats or monologues, but you cannot converse during a single round (except in the dead time while somebody else is attacking).

Also, there was a great rule in Conquistador in the seventies, which forbade movement "in contravention of common sense". If somebody attempted the peasant railgun in my game, I would say, "Get serious", and move on.

Dimers
2012-09-11, 12:39 PM
How about the legacy of arcane spell failure for armor use? When 4e came out, I thought that ridiculosity had ended, but no, it rears its stupid head in the 5e playtest too ... From a balance perspective, I can sorta kinda vaguely understand it (but can't understand why they would then allow workarounds), but there is no in-game reason for it that can't get logicked away in two seconds.

Ooh, and adventuring being better practice for wizardry than day-in, day-out study of the arcane in a well-equipped laboratory!

And all 2e rangers being specialized in two-weapon fighting! Because there's nothing better for protecting a forest than a sword-and-dagger combo.

Finally: the Deck of Many Things. /thread

The Cat Goddess
2012-09-11, 03:33 PM
How about the legacy of arcane spell failure for armor use? When 4e came out, I thought that ridiculosity had ended, but no, it rears its stupid head in the 5e playtest too ... From a balance perspective, I can sorta kinda vaguely understand it (but can't understand why they would then allow workarounds), but there is no in-game reason for it that can't get logicked away in two seconds.

Ooh, and adventuring being better practice for wizardry than day-in, day-out study of the arcane in a well-equipped laboratory!

And all 2e rangers being specialized in two-weapon fighting! Because there's nothing better for protecting a forest than a sword-and-dagger combo.

Finally: the Deck of Many Things. /thread

In 3e & 3.5, Arcane Spell Failure only applies to spells with a Somatic (body movement) component, just like Silence only gives a spell failure chance to spells with a Verbal component.

As for adventuring Wizards... well... actually seeing the real-world effects of magic, encountering magical creatures, encountering different ways of using magic, being forced to "think on your feet", etc...

Of course, back in 2e, Wizards got 50xp/spell level for every spell they cast and Clerics got 100xp/spell level for every spell they cast... so players had to decide if they wanted to blow all their spells before camping, or keep some in case there was an encounter at night!

Thieves also got 1xp for each gold-piece equivalent value they stole. so, if the thief could sneak in while the party was fighting the dragon, they could get rediculous amounts of xp (and say "huh, this dragon wasn't very wealthy...")

nedz
2012-09-13, 09:11 AM
Bagpipes of the Damned: From the Libris Mortis, why oh why did they choose that of all instruments to give the "Play this and your summoned undead get +4 Turn Resistance" power to? Couldn't they have given this to an instrument with more dignity, like a fiddle or a horn?
I suspect that this is from a module. You can always re-fluff it as a grand piano or something.

It's also an Elf hand, specifically. So the next Dwarf I'm playing will wear a Hand of the Mage, which he personally chopped off an Elf and had mummified into a magic item. The Elf is probably still running around somewhere with only 1 hand.
I want to place several of this in a game where the local magic mart is run by an Elf. When they try to part exchange them the reaction would be something like:
"Eek, get those things out of my shop before I disintegrate them."

The infamous Orb spells of 3E have an ancestor in 2E called Chromatic Orb from the Wizard's Handbook. It was a 1st level spell that created a colored orb doing some damage. As you gained levels the color would change and the damage would increase or even change in severity of harm. You could choose which ever color/effect you want you were able to cast. Eventually you would be able to cast a Black Chromatic Orb of Death. Save or die. In 2E a wizard could cast a 1st level save or die spell. Not save or suck, save or die.
Original source: 1E UA Illusionist only. (well it might have been in Dragon first). The thing is though, by the time you can do the save or die thing, you could have spent your action in casting a 6th level spell.

It's because the government outlawed art and music. That's the most real excuse. Anyone caught singing, playing the violin, painting, drawing, or anything of the sort is to be cast into jail forever.
Sounds like England in the Cromwell/Puritan period; and the Pilgrim fathers wondered why they were unpopular.

2E's Priest's Handbook offered specialty priests kits for clerics. They were based on various themes and used the spell spheres to determine which spells a priest had access in addition to a couple of class abilities. A priest would have major or minor access to a sphere. Major access meant the priest would eventually get all spells, capping at 7th level in 2E. Minor access meant you only get up to third level spells.

1) The Cure Wounds spells were in Healing sphere. Not every priest got access to Healing, so there exists clerics who did not heal. Not "stupid" per se, but for 2E that was a big deal of a disadvantage. I learned that from experience playing a cleric of Justice/Revenge. Even the DM saw how harmful it was in play and agreed to allow me Healing sphere.

2) The priest of Guardian only had minor access to the Guardian sphere.

3) I don't remember which priest kit, but I know there was one that had minor access to Summoning sphere. There were no spells in Summoning of less than 4th level. (2E's Tome of Magic had a few, but Priest's Handbook was published before it so it only took into account PHB spells of which no Summoning spell below 4th level existed.)

I ran this and it worked well. Clerics were still the most powerful class.
No one uses the useless kits anyway.

I run a similar house rule in 3.5. Clerics get to cast their domain spells spontaneously instead of cure X. If they want spontaneous healing then they need to take an appropriate domain.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-09-13, 09:52 AM
I suspect that this is from a module. You can always re-fluff it as a grand piano or something.

I want to place several of this in a game where the local magic mart is run by an Elf. When they try to part exchange them the reaction would be something like:
"Eek, get those things out of my shop before I disintegrate them."

Original source: 1E UA Illusionist only. (well it might have been in Dragon first). The thing is though, by the time you can do the save or die thing, you could have spent your action in casting a 6th level spell.

Sounds like England in the Cromwell/Puritan period; and the Pilgrim fathers wondered why they were unpopular.


I ran this and it worked well. Clerics were still the most powerful class.
No one uses the useless kits anyway.

I run a similar house rule in 3.5. Clerics get to cast their domain spells spontaneously instead of cure X. If they want spontaneous healing then they need to take an appropriate domain.

ACF in PHB 2, you can spontaneously cast from 1 domain and can prepare healing (or inflict) spells on your domain slot. There is also a feat that allows you to cast spontaneously from a Domain at the cost of 1 turn attempt per spell.

nedz
2012-09-14, 04:57 AM
I run a similar house rule in 3.5. Clerics get to cast their domain spells spontaneously instead of cure X. If they want spontaneous healing then they need to take an appropriate domain.ACF in PHB 2, you can spontaneously cast from 1 domain and can prepare healing (or inflict) spells on your domain slot. There is also a feat that allows you to cast spontaneously from a Domain at the cost of 1 turn attempt per spell.

I'm aware of these, but we make it a general rule which affects all domains. Its good for making Clerics more flavoursome, and match their chosen deity.
Its especially good for evil clerics since the Inflict line of spells are not particularly useful.

Deepbluediver
2012-09-14, 09:04 AM
I run a similar house rule in 3.5. Clerics get to cast their domain spells spontaneously instead of cure X. If they want spontaneous healing then they need to take an appropriate domain.

When I did a fix for the cleric, I tried to give more domain-flavor by lowering the regular spell slots and increasing the number of doman spell slots. I think I actually like your idea more though.
I know that the original line of thinking was that "clerics are the only ones that can heal" (although that not entirely accurate even within core) but even if that where the case I think this is a good change.


To keep this thread on topic:
The Wish Spell

It's basically saying "here's 100+ pages of spells, but in case we've forgotten anything you can make up your own". Maybe workable in theory, but the potential for generating arguments and encouraging abuse is pretty much infinite.

Arbane
2012-09-14, 12:55 PM
To keep this thread on topic:
The Wish Spell

It's basically saying "here's 100+ pages of spells, but in case we've forgotten anything you can make up your own". Maybe workable in theory, but the potential for generating arguments and encouraging abuse is pretty much infinite.

Not to mention the fact that traditionally DMs have been actively encouraged to go all Monkey's Paw on anyone rash enough to use it.

Tyndmyr
2012-09-14, 01:15 PM
The next Elf I'm playing will wear a Hand of the Mage, which he personally chopped off his wrist and had mummified into a magic item. He lost his other hand to a dwarf.

I eagerly await the next charop exercise that starts with a level 1 char chopping off and selling his hands.

hiryuu
2012-09-14, 01:29 PM
The most ridiculous published addition was Elves in Space Spelljammer. And yes, it had mobs of (intelligent) hippos.

Don't forget that the elves had Guyver units.

Spelljammer's cover is all like "hey guess what all of Kepler's first ideas were correct and phlogiston theory is real hell yes get ready for 15th Century voyages on the high seas only in space and prep your buckles for swashing only there are DWAAAVES." And then you open it up and read it. What you get is an elf in a Guyver suit trying to buy a pair of bongos off a penguin riding a flying pig down at the beholder bar. Which is okay, I guess. Had the cover said "get ready for wacky Baron Munchausen in space adventures," it'd be easier to swallow.

Also hate tinker gnomes for whom every gadget fails. HAHA isn't it teh funneh? No, thank you. I already have trouble taking this as srs bisniss, the Geartaculars Guild of Munchkin Land is actively fighting any attempt to get roleplaying done that doesn't turn D&D into Your Highness. Which is fine, if that's what you're going for. They would be great in a game like The Slayers (at least for the first half of any given season until things go strangely dark). But if you're trying to run Robert E. Howard/Dream Cycle style fantasy...

Tyndmyr
2012-09-14, 01:46 PM
One of the DMs I gamed with houseruled in a version that limited us to 6 free actions a turn (1 second each) and that talking was only a free action if you said less than three words. This was essentially his way of trying to curtail the hour-long debates/planning sessions we had every time we spotted some new monster or entered combat.

When this was brought up at my table, we responded by using codes.

For instance, Monkey Three is a reference to "see no evil". IE, cover your eyes, there's a gaze attack incoming.

TuggyNE
2012-09-14, 03:31 PM
When this was brought up at my table, we responded by using codes.

For instance, Monkey Three is a reference to "see no evil". IE, cover your eyes, there's a gaze attack incoming.

That ... actually makes a lot of sense, for many characters.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-15, 02:47 AM
That ... actually makes a lot of sense, for many characters.

There's a reason special forces in particular and combat personell in general use such short-hand IRL.

Rapid communication is essential on the battlefield, and things like using the numbers of a clockface as stand-ins for directional warnings is a logical extension of that principal.

"4 o'clock, high" gets said, heard, and processed faster than, "Look out behind you, to your left, and above you." It also avoids confusion since in the first instance you clearly mean one target in a specific direction rather than the possible three targets in three general directions, that the second could mean.

tyckspoon
2012-09-15, 02:53 AM
When this was brought up at my table, we responded by using codes.

For instance, Monkey Three is a reference to "see no evil". IE, cover your eyes, there's a gaze attack incoming.

I have just one response to this: Pink Frosting.
100 Whose Line Points to whoever knows the reference.

Ashtagon
2012-09-15, 03:56 AM
"4 o'clock, high" gets said, heard, and processed faster than, "Look out behind you, to your left, and above you." It also avoids confusion...

I'd understand "4 o'clock, high" to mean somewhere to my right, not my left. I'm confused. :smallconfused:

Craft (Cheese)
2012-09-15, 05:48 AM
How about the legacy of arcane spell failure for armor use? When 4e came out, I thought that ridiculosity had ended, but no, it rears its stupid head in the 5e playtest too ... From a balance perspective, I can sorta kinda vaguely understand it (but can't understand why they would then allow workarounds), but there is no in-game reason for it that can't get logicked away in two seconds.

As far as I can tell, it's just a stupid stereotype enforcement thing. Classic fantasy wizards like merlin and gandalf didn't go into battle in full plate, so your wizard can't either.

(By the way, where in the 5E playtest does it mention ASF? I don't remember seeing it anywhere.)

Slipperychicken
2012-09-15, 01:36 PM
There's a reason special forces in particular and combat personell in general use such short-hand IRL.



Sometimes I want talking-limits as a player, so I don't have to spend 10 minutes listening to some loser BBEG whine about on cryptic bulls*** while I'm forced to politely wait my turn to stab him again. Seriously, how do you form coherent sentences (or even thoughts) while three guys are stabbing you? Also, my character is not waiting for this loser to finish his damn sentence, he's in a screaming blood frenzy, and he's spending every moment hacking his target into a bloody pulp.


The next villain that spends 5 minutes with a pointless mid-combat monologue, I am tempted to have my character stop listening and reply with "I wasn't listening, too busy eviscerating you. Can you repeat that? Actually never mind, it probably wasn't important anyway. Have another stab wound, you big loser". If the monologue was especially eloquent, "No U", or "Whine Moar".

nedz
2012-09-15, 02:58 PM
Sometimes I want talking-limits as a player, so I don't have to spend 10 minutes listening to some loser BBEG whine about on cryptic bulls*** while I'm forced to politely wait my turn to stab him again. Seriously, how do you form coherent sentences (or even thoughts) while three guys are stabbing you? Also, my character is not waiting for this loser to finish his damn sentence, he's in a screaming blood frenzy, and he's spending every moment hacking his target into a bloody pulp.


The next villain that spends 5 minutes with a pointless mid-combat monologue, I am tempted to have my character stop listening and reply with "I wasn't listening, too busy eviscerating you. Can you repeat that? Actually never mind, it probably wasn't important anyway. Have another stab wound, you big loser". If the monologue was especially eloquent, "No U", or "Whine Moar".

Yes, real BBEGs tie you up and suspend you over a pool of sharks so that you are forced to listen to them.:smalltongue:

Zeful
2012-09-15, 05:26 PM
I'd understand "4 o'clock, high" to mean somewhere to my right, not my left. I'm confused. :smallconfused:

Yes, but reread his other directions. The first one is "turn around", at which point the monster is to your left, and above.

But that's kinda the point about how confusing a lack of code is to these kind of scenarios.

Cerlis
2012-09-15, 07:09 PM
Sometimes I want talking-limits as a player, so I don't have to spend 10 minutes listening to some loser BBEG whine about on cryptic bulls*** while I'm forced to politely wait my turn to stab him again. Seriously, how do you form coherent sentences (or even thoughts) while three guys are stabbing you? Also, my character is not waiting for this loser to finish his damn sentence, he's in a screaming blood frenzy, and he's spending every moment hacking his target into a bloody pulp.


The next villain that spends 5 minutes with a pointless mid-combat monologue, I am tempted to have my character stop listening and reply with "I wasn't listening, too busy eviscerating you. Can you repeat that? Actually never mind, it probably wasn't important anyway. Have another stab wound, you big loser". If the monologue was especially eloquent, "No U", or "Whine Moar".
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TalkToTheFist

Punch him in the face and say "Less talking, more fighting!"

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-15, 07:55 PM
I'd understand "4 o'clock, high" to mean somewhere to my right, not my left. I'm confused. :smallconfused:

I could be wrong about it, but if you lay a clock down in front of you, 12 is foward and 6 is back, putting 4 to the...... right.

****ing dyslexia.

Zeful
2012-09-15, 10:08 PM
I could be wrong about it, but if you lay a clock down in front of you, 12 is foward and 6 is back, putting 4 to the...... right.

****ing dyslexia.

Now, take the clock, spin 6 to the top, where's 4?

To the left. The original directions work sequentially and do just as good a job to show why vocal shorthand are still necessary.

Xuc Xac
2012-09-15, 11:29 PM
I don't see how "Monkey Three" is clearer or faster than just saying "shut your eyes".

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-16, 12:22 AM
Now, take the clock, spin 6 to the top, where's 4?

To the left. The original directions work sequentially and do just as good a job to show why vocal shorthand are still necessary.

Yeah, but 12 foward and 6 back is standard. I knew that, I just got left and right mixed up. That happens to me every once in a while.

Zeful
2012-09-16, 12:48 AM
Yeah, but 12 foward and 6 back is standard. I knew that, I just got left and right mixed up. That happens to me every once in a while.

That's not my point. Yes, that's one of those embarrassing mistakes that everyone makes once in a while, but the original orders you posted when making your point still make sense. The orders were: "Look out behind you, to your left, and above you." Which can be read easily as list orders, where you do them in order, making "4'o clock" to your left of the first one of "look out behind you.

Ashtagon
2012-09-16, 12:58 AM
Sometimes I want talking-limits as a player, so I don't have to spend 10 minutes listening to some loser BBEG whine about on cryptic bulls*** while I'm forced to politely wait my turn to stab him again. Seriously, how do you form coherent sentences (or even thoughts) while three guys are stabbing you? Also, my character is not waiting for this loser to finish his damn sentence, he's in a screaming blood frenzy, and he's spending every moment hacking his target into a bloody pulp.


The next villain that spends 5 minutes with a pointless mid-combat monologue, I am tempted to have my character stop listening and reply with "I wasn't listening, too busy eviscerating you. Can you repeat that? Actually never mind, it probably wasn't important anyway. Have another stab wound, you big loser". If the monologue was especially eloquent, "No U", or "Whine Moar".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOsHoqhbUIU

It's a standard trope for villains to gloat. If you interrupt the gloating, you are having a different kind fo fun.

Doorhandle
2012-09-16, 01:21 AM
Honestly, why can't he fight and gloat at the same time?

Slipperychicken
2012-09-16, 08:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOsHoqhbUIU

It's a standard trope for villains to gloat. If you interrupt the gloating, you are having a different kind fo fun.

Well, my last DM had very bad gloating, and all his villains were the same, so it's not like they were bringing something new to the table. The gloating usually had nothing to do with anything (much like the rest of his "plots"), and bored me to tears whenever someone started up a rant. For some perspective, he's the kind of guy who shoehorns the word "existence" into whatever he happens to be saying when he wants to sound deep.

nedz
2012-09-16, 10:12 AM
Well, my last DM had very bad gloating, and all his villains were the same, so it's not like they were bringing something new to the table. The gloating usually had nothing to do with anything (much like the rest of his "plots"), and bored me to tears whenever someone started up a rant. For some perspective, he's the kind of guy who shoehorns the word "existence" into whatever he happens to be saying when he wants to sound deep.

So its actually his DMing style you're bored of, or at least this aspect of it, which is fair enough.
An overused Trope rapidly becomes a very old cliché.

Eldan
2012-09-16, 10:24 AM
I love hte Roving Mauler. The game needs more of that and less "random tentacles and teeth stuck together" or "like a human but bigger and tougher" monsters.

Jack of Spades
2012-09-16, 10:54 AM
That's not my point. Yes, that's one of those embarrassing mistakes that everyone makes once in a while, but the original orders you posted when making your point still make sense. The orders were: "Look out behind you, to your left, and above you." Which can be read easily as list orders, where you do them in order, making "4'o clock" to your left of the first one of "look out behind you.

And it was during all of that discussion that the monster on the ceiling at 4 o'clock ate Steve.

Hilarious how things prove their own point :smallbiggrin:

re: Villain Gloating:

The games I play in tend to go the kung-fu movie route of yell across the field at one another, then go to battle. But then again, I've been playing Deathwatch. Battle with a big bad in the Codex Astartes consists of:
Denounce Heretic
Condemn Heretic
Yell at Heretic
Praise the Emperor
Hope You Won Initiative because at Mid to High Levels Whoever Hits First Turns the Other Into a Red Mist on Round One.

Which is almost an on-topic thing to say. Huh. Well, this is the general gaming forum. :smalltongue:

endoperez
2012-09-16, 11:01 AM
Yes, real BBEGs tie you up and suspend you over a pool of sharks so that you are forced to listen to them.:smalltongue:

The really evil guys leave you rotting in jail, with the victory monologue delivered through loudspeakers... on repeat.

While the villain himself is out there, finally taking control of the world using his ingenious plan of... well, actually the whole Empire of Ice plan was designed by this other guy, but he died, and he never got it to work because he wasn't invincible! Muahahaa!

:smallsmile: Oh my god how I love that book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soon_I_Will_Be_Invincible). So cheesy.

Drynwyn
2012-09-16, 12:56 PM
From the AD&D Tome of Magic, the Mouse Cart.
It is a full sized cart attached to a harness the size of a mouse. When a mouse is hooked up, it is given the strength to pull the cart as fast as a team of horses.

toapat
2012-09-16, 01:22 PM
From the AD&D Tome of Magic, the Mouse Cart.
It is a full sized cart attached to a harness the size of a mouse. When a mouse is hooked up, it is given the strength to pull the cart as fast as a team of horses.

translated to 3.5 rules, that gives the mouse something like 100 str. 120 STR/Horse.

That is one mighty Chipmunk

Doxkid
2012-09-16, 01:58 PM
I don't see how "Monkey Three" is clearer or faster than just saying "shut your eyes".

It is one word shorter, with the same number of syllables. Three things typically matter: "who understands it", "the true meaning" and either "how short the phrase is" or "how easy it is to say". This is kind of like wording a wish: you want that wish to be as short, precise and give it's full meaning so clearly it actually takes a good amount of time to twist it into something you wouldn't like.

This is why we have things like "Code-Blue. Sector-8. Response-Gold." instead of "I, Jonathan Scotts the yearling priest (born in Silvercrest to a family of metal-workers, most of whom still live within that area) have identified five targets approaching the weapon of unlimited power at the safe house of nobleman Elas Web, who is actually the trigger for said weapon of unlimited power. Please send in the Chain Devil defensive team."

Fiery Diamond
2012-09-16, 10:40 PM
That's not my point. Yes, that's one of those embarrassing mistakes that everyone makes once in a while, but the original orders you posted when making your point still make sense. The orders were: "Look out behind you, to your left, and above you." Which can be read easily as list orders, where you do them in order, making "4'o clock" to your left of the first one of "look out behind you.

Except that you don't have to turn around fully to counter something at 4 or 8 o-clock.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-16, 11:33 PM
Except that you don't have to turn around fully to counter something at 4 or 8 o-clock.

I think the point is made, regardless of the specifics.

Let's get back to D&D stupidity shall we?

on topic: wish twisting.

While it was included with the intention, I think, of limiting the spell's power when munchkins get ahold of it, or to keep it from being abused if you get it from a SP. In practice, it's far too often used just to be a d-bag of a DM. That's just plain stupid, IMO.

tbok1992
2012-09-17, 01:34 AM
Also, something I think is stupid (But not in a funny kind of way) is Level Adjustment from 3e. It was just a minorly tweaked version of the old Racial Level Limits (and we all know how well those worked) and it barred a lot of the cooler races like Mephlings, Dromites and Thri-Keen from use without irritating penalites. It was just a lazy way to keep players from playing races without them havign to balance them with other PC races.

And on stupid in an awesome way PC races, I'd like to talk about Unbodied. They're essentially giant disembodied brains made from psionics users who have transcended mortal flesh, and they have PC stats. But, unfortunately, they have +4 Level adjustment, which makes them a bother to play as. I really hope in D&D next we get a version of them equivalent in skills to PC characters as a PC race. I wanna play as my giant floating brain character dammit!

Also, on an actually stupid note, there's the Wildren race. They're a planar race from The Beastlands descended from dwarven ghosts ****ing celestial badgers. I swear to god I am not making that up. I have no idea how no editor caught that, "Hey, maybe this is kind of a creepy concept for a race".

I was actually hoping this thread would cover more of the humorously stupid stuff in D&D rather than the stupid stupid kind of stuff.

Jay R
2012-09-17, 11:07 AM
Honestly, why can't he fight and gloat at the same time?

Because it doesn't film well, since it doesn't take as much time to build up to a climax.

Ashtagon
2012-09-17, 12:07 PM
Because it doesn't film well, since it doesn't take as much time to build up to a climax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3W5GDkgf2w

This is what happens when you fight and gloat at the same time.

Alabenson
2012-09-17, 12:12 PM
translated to 3.5 rules, that gives the mouse something like 100 str. 120 STR/Horse.

That is one mighty Chipmunk

This just gave me a hilariously abusive idea; play an awakened mouse/chipmunk/fine-sized-rodent melee character, and fight while harnesed to that wagon.

Hello +55 Str modifier.

Roderick_BR
2012-09-17, 01:53 PM
Sometimes I want talking-limits as a player, so I don't have to spend 10 minutes listening to some loser BBEG whine about on cryptic bulls*** while I'm forced to politely wait my turn to stab him again. Seriously, how do you form coherent sentences (or even thoughts) while three guys are stabbing you? Also, my character is not waiting for this loser to finish his damn sentence, he's in a screaming blood frenzy, and he's spending every moment hacking his target into a bloody pulp.


The next villain that spends 5 minutes with a pointless mid-combat monologue, I am tempted to have my character stop listening and reply with "I wasn't listening, too busy eviscerating you. Can you repeat that? Actually never mind, it probably wasn't important anyway. Have another stab wound, you big loser". If the monologue was especially eloquent, "No U", or "Whine Moar".
As someone that just watched Avengers:

The scene near the end is mine, and my dad's, favorite in the whole movie.

toapat
2012-09-17, 02:38 PM
This just gave me a hilariously abusive idea; play an awakened mouse/chipmunk/fine-sized-rodent melee character, and fight while harnesed to that wagon.

Hello +55 Str modifier.

note, that you have to get a ruling for how many Horses consists of a team.

because that sets your STR to 120*horses

that means a minimum +115 STR mod

Slipperychicken
2012-09-17, 05:03 PM
As someone that just watched Avengers:

The scene near the end is mine, and my dad's, favorite in the whole movie.


When I saw the "Puny God" scene, the first thing that came to mind was "Wow, that BBEG sucks. He doesn't even have defenses against Grappling!".

hex0
2012-09-17, 06:55 PM
While all this is true, IRL, in D&D hippo's are isolated to a single terain type and have to compete with magical beasts and dragons. Then there's the fact that the feat, unique in all of 3.5, gives you the ability to rebuke/command, not just animals; one of the weakest creature types; but one specific type of animal, making it one of the weakest feats in 3.5. Even in sandstorm it kind of jumps out as an odd duck and kind of random. I couldn't argue against this if I tried hard.

Swanmay, BOED, lets you turn into a Swan. Which I think deals 1d2 nonlethal damage when it bites. I mean, yeah you are supposed to use it to escape or whatever. The rest of the class is awesome and tottally worth keeping your virginity for, but there is a bunch of weird swan stuff too.

Ashtagon
2012-09-18, 02:45 AM
Swanmay, BOED, lets you turn into a Swan. Which I think deals 1d2 nonlethal damage when it bites. I mean, yeah you are supposed to use it to escape or whatever. The rest of the class is awesome and tottally worth keeping your virginity for, but there is a bunch of weird swan stuff too.

Are we talking RL or game virginity? Because I've heard of RPGs being described as one of the best forms of birth control around.

Poil
2012-09-18, 03:41 AM
Class restrictions applying to the player too would be hilariously stupid.

hex0
2012-09-18, 02:05 PM
Are we talking RL or game virginity? Because I've heard of RPGs being described as one of the best forms of birth control around.

In game, mostly.

nedz
2012-09-18, 09:14 PM
In game, mostly.

How can you be mostly a virgin ?
I thought it was somewhat binary :smalltongue:

Doxkid
2012-09-18, 09:19 PM
How can you be mostly a virgin ?
I thought it was somewhat binary :smalltongue:

Are you kidding? Who doesn't use a point system for virginity?

hex0
2012-09-19, 05:39 PM
How can you be mostly a virgin ?
I thought it was somewhat binary :smalltongue:

Actually most of the Vow feats have the clause "If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion, you lose the benefit of this feat until you perform a suitable penance and receive an atonement spell." Well screw you if someone forces you to drink a beer! It's your fault, sinner!

Jeff the Green
2012-09-19, 05:45 PM
Actually most of the Vow feats have the clause "If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion, you lose the benefit of this feat until you perform a suitable penance and receive an atonement spell." Well screw you if someone forces you to drink a beer! It's your fault, sinner!

So viginity, along with teetotaling and pacifism, are trinary. Good to know.

BootStrapTommy
2012-09-21, 02:05 PM
Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

I mean really. We always joke that the verbal components for the spell aren't a joke, but just staring at the target with a straight face and going "Tasha's Hideous Laughter."

Sipex
2012-09-21, 02:29 PM
Oh, that. You know the entire world was once an empire ruled by demons that enslaved dragons that lasted form millions of years, right? Or that the continent was once ruled by a magical kingdom of goblins? Little things like that. There's probably more rings lying in wait out there than there is gold to mine.

Which begs the question, what are the rings made of?

endoperez
2012-09-21, 03:01 PM
Which begs the question, what are the rings made of?

Heh, nice one! :D

Does Eberron suffer from a scarcity of raw materials, since the easily accessed mines etc have been exhausted by previous civilizations? I don't think it does, but I've never actually played in it.

It reminds me of Feist's Midkemia/Tsurani books, where the latter invade the former because the Tsurani world's resources had mostly run out.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-09-21, 03:29 PM
IIRC Dragonshards normal ones at the least are treated very similar to Oil in modern world (perhaps a little earlier in our history) in the sense they are in a great but finite supply, though unless that is the plot of the campaign you can assume they won't run out in the near-future. Khyber and Syberis shards are another matter since they are extremely rare. And one must also take into account that some shards are MASSIVE (60 ft tall or something like that) and can be processed into smaller ones or uses to power similarly sized machines.

Erik Vale
2012-09-21, 04:38 PM
Heh, nice one! :D

Does Eberron suffer from a scarcity of raw materials, since the easily accessed mines etc have been exhausted by previous civilizations? I don't think it does, but I've never actually played in it.

It reminds me of Feist's Midkemia/Tsurani books, where the latter invade the former because the Tsurani world's resources had mostly run out.

Not really. The Tsurani didn't really have metal in the first place (The instead have lots of wood that can be made into things almost as good), but a nice point.

endoperez
2012-09-21, 05:05 PM
Not really. The Tsurani didn't really have metal in the first place (The instead have lots of wood that can be made into things almost as good), but a nice point.

Sinex's post helped me realize that, if the endless supply of magic rings and stuff is due to previous civilizations, how come there's still basic materials such as iron left to mine for the current races?

Arbane
2012-09-22, 02:08 AM
Sinex's post helped me realize that, if the endless supply of magic rings and stuff is due to previous civilizations, how come there's still basic materials such as iron left to mine for the current races?

Buried scrap metal?

Poil
2012-09-22, 04:10 AM
Deities of mining and resource gathering adding more?

Sort of like, "Uh oh the orcs are running out of gold. Pot of gold. There all fixed."

Water_Bear
2012-09-22, 08:32 PM
Sinex's post helped me realize that, if the endless supply of magic rings and stuff is due to previous civilizations, how come there's still basic materials such as iron left to mine for the current races?

Well, I for one have never seen a mine in D&D that wasn't a good mile or so under the surface and filled with zombies, so I'd hazard a guess all the good veins of ore have already been tapped out.

Dwarves Kobolds and the other undergound races do most of the mining anyway, and they are always "delving too greedily and too deep" so it's a good fit fluff-wise. Add in all the generic Evil Empire Forcing Prisoners to Work as Slaves in the Plot Mines set-pieces and mining is probably almost as dangerous as dungeon-crawling, assuming your mine isn't already transforming into an "Abandoned Mine" dungeon.

Also remember that resources are only limited on a local level; Wish Economies and the ability to mine on infinite planes like the Elemental Plane of Earth means there is always going to be iron (and gold, and admanantine...) out there to buy if you can't find it yourself.

willpell
2012-09-23, 06:44 AM
Though I am appreciative about the Epic Destiny in Heroes of the Elemental Chaos that allows you to become a Regiar.

Could you clue us non-SJ, non-4E fans in what a Regiar is? Wikipedia and Google are not finding it.


Original source: 1E UA Illusionist only. (well it might have been in Dragon first). The thing is though, by the time you can do the save or die thing, you could have spent your action in casting a 6th level spell.

Unless 1E was very different from 3E in this respect, though, you get a LOT more 1st-level spells than 6ths. Especially since, if you have a 1st that's as good as a 6th, you can cast all your 2nds, 3rd, 4ths, 5ths and 6ths as that one 1st.


And on stupid in an awesome way PC races, I'd like to talk about Unbodied. They're essentially giant disembodied brains made from psionics users who have transcended mortal flesh, and they have PC stats.

What bugs me about Unbodied is that they have no body, yet they can appear as anything, with no stated limits on that. So they can pretend to be a dragon sitting on the roof of your house, but they can't pass for human in a crowd because as soon as someone bumps into them they'll notice that this person isn't actually physically present. Also we have no life-cycle information about them; the fluff seems to imply that they're a race of ancients who've been lingering around forever, and I don't see how they could breed, but there's nothing indicating that they have a former human life (contrasting sharply with the Elans, who do have a former human life despite starting out as level 1 characters). Just a mess.


Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

What's really confusing about that spell is that the name seems to imply that it's forcing the target to laugh, but according to the Gray Jester in Heroes of Horror, the target is actually amused. It doesn't mechanically force you to laugh the way Otto's forces you to dance, but rather causes you to feel such overwhelming humor that you break out laughing in the middle of a fight - humor which the Jester can then eat after you've wasted your action. Weird.


I mean really. We always joke that the verbal components for the spell aren't a joke, but just staring at the target with a straight face and going "Tasha's Hideous Laughter."

Reading OOTS has left me very tempted to have every spell be cast by saying it's name. It makes a mockery of the whole Spellcraft skill, but I still find it hard to resist.

Sith_Happens
2012-09-23, 12:49 PM
What's really confusing about that spell is that the name seems to imply that it's forcing the target to laugh, but according to the Gray Jester in Heroes of Horror, the target is actually amused. It doesn't mechanically force you to laugh the way Otto's forces you to dance, but rather causes you to feel such overwhelming humor that you break out laughing in the middle of a fight - humor which the Jester can then eat after you've wasted your action. Weird.

So basically, Tasha's Hideous Laughter is the world's funniest joke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gpjk_MaCGM).:smallbiggrin:

Iruka
2012-09-23, 01:18 PM
So basically, Tasha's Hideous Laughter is the world's funniest joke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gpjk_MaCGM).:smallbiggrin:

Which means you don't really prepare it in the morning but instead tell it to your party until all you get is an annoyed groan, thus protecting them against it's effect in battle.

holywhippet
2012-09-23, 10:09 PM
Not really. The Tsurani didn't really have metal in the first place (The instead have lots of wood that can be made into things almost as good), but a nice point.

The world was one they escaped to via magic after the Valheru invaded the place they previously were. The world they escaped to had presumably had other races previously who had used up all the metal. Which makes no sense really, unless they launched it into space the metal should still be there somewhere.

It was more complicated than that anyway, certain political parties wanted the war in order to keep their power.

nedz
2012-09-24, 01:15 PM
Unless 1E was very different from 3E in this respect, though, you get a LOT more 1st-level spells than 6ths. Especially since, if you have a 1st that's as good as a 6th, you can cast all your 2nds, 3rd, 4ths, 5ths and 6ths as that one 1st.

Well it only targets one individual, so its not that awesome.

willpell
2012-09-24, 10:26 PM
Which makes no sense really, unless they launched it into space the metal should still be there somewhere.

Rust, corrosion, adulteration with impurities, gold dissolved into sea water - the metal might still exist at the atomic level, but unless you can split molecules or separate alloys you'll never get at it.

Mnemnosyne
2012-09-26, 01:30 AM
Which begs the question, what are the rings made of?
That's not begging the question, which would be asserting something and then using it as proof of itself. It may pose or suggest that question, but saying it 'begs the question' is inaccurate.

Could you clue us non-SJ, non-4E fans in what a Regiar is? Wikipedia and Google are not finding it.
The correct spelling is Reigar (http://www.lomion.de/cmm/reigar.php).

Asheram
2012-09-26, 04:42 AM
Well, I for one have never seen a mine in D&D that wasn't a good mile or so under the surface and filled with zombies, so I'd hazard a guess all the good veins of ore have already been tapped out.

Dwarves Kobolds and the other undergound races do most of the mining anyway, and they are always "delving too greedily and too deep" so it's a good fit fluff-wise. Add in all the generic Evil Empire Forcing Prisoners to Work as Slaves in the Plot Mines set-pieces and mining is probably almost as dangerous as dungeon-crawling, assuming your mine isn't already transforming into an "Abandoned Mine" dungeon.


Would this mean that mines in D&D work a bit like minecraft? Seal off a section of the mine for a day and a night in complete darkness and by the morning it might be a beholder lair?

Deepbluediver
2012-09-26, 08:52 AM
Would this mean that mines in D&D work a bit like minecraft? Seal off a section of the mine for a day and a night in complete darkness and by the morning it might be a beholder lair?

Apparently the Theory of Spontaneous Generation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation) is alive and well in both MMOs and tabletop RPGs.

Sipex
2012-09-26, 09:26 AM
That's not begging the question, which would be asserting something and then using it as proof of itself. It may pose or suggest that question, but saying it 'begs the question' is inaccurate.

While I realise (and hope) you were probably saying this to be helpful and informative, it comes off more rude and condescending fyi.

willpell
2012-09-26, 09:30 AM
While I realise (and hope) you were probably saying this to be helpful and informative, it comes off more rude and condescending fyi.

I found it a bit pedantic myself, but just rolled my eyes and moved on. Mnemosyne is a cool dude/ette/oid/whatever, I can overlook the occasional English-Teacher's-Pet self-indulgence. :smallwink:

PS: OMG Reigar....that is amaaazing. An entire race of Mary Sues who out-elf the elves. I badly want to know who was consuming what flavor of six-month old yoghurt just before they hallucinated that concept.

Hbgplayer
2012-09-26, 10:31 AM
Favored by tem-et-nu, a feat from sandstorm, gives you the ability to rebuke, get this, hippopotami. That's right, you get the ability to rebuke freakin' hippo's.

Plus, if you lose Tem-et-nu's favor, you take damage as if bitten by a hippo. That's right, anger your god and the "spirit of the hippo" chomps your butt.

How stupid is that?

It's a little late, but I felt the need to post this (http://youtu.be/w5vQgKRmnuU?t=31s) in response to this.

nedz
2012-09-26, 10:46 AM
I found it a bit pedantic myself, but just rolled my eyes and moved on. Mnemosyne is a cool dude/ette/oid/whatever, I can overlook the occasional English-Teacher's-Pet self-indulgence. :smallwink:
Well I discounted it as noise, but whatever.


PS: OMG Reigar....that is amaaazing. An entire race of Mary Sues who out-elf the elves. I badly want to know who was consuming what flavor of six-month old yoghurt just before they hallucinated that concept.

But at least they are artistic. :smallbiggrin:

If I were ever to use these then I can think of several players who would like nothing better than to introduce them to the finer points of rapiers; others however would love to talk with them, before moving on. It is not a surprise that these players play in different groups.

They are only Mary-Sues if you use them as such. These seem more of a high level distraction or trading opportunity.

BTW the flavour of yoghurt would be Madagascan Vanilla with a hint of Armagnac.

Morph Bark
2012-09-26, 02:47 PM
Class restrictions applying to the player too would be hilariously stupid.

Poor Eunuch Warlocks would see even less play.

Wardog
2012-09-28, 02:35 AM
That's not begging the question, which would be asserting something and then using it as proof of itself. It may pose or suggest that question, but saying it 'begs the question' is inaccurate.

The correct spelling is Reigar (http://www.lomion.de/cmm/reigar.php).

I've heard good arguments that given:
1) "begging the question" is a very bad translation of the original Latin term for the fallacy
2) Going by the normal English meaning of words, the colloquial interpretation of the prase ("demanding/requiring the question be asked") makes more sense than the "real" meaning
3) Almost everyone uses it that way

Therefore the colloquial meaning should now be treated as as correct.

Nyes the Dark
2012-10-01, 03:44 PM
My group also encountered a swan-shifting charm. It was a once-a-day effect, and ironically the violent guy took it and always wants to use it to kill things, but the DM vetoes it because it would never work.

On-topic: Bag of Tricks. That is all.

The LOBster
2012-10-01, 06:48 PM
"Chicken-infested." It's just one of the best and worst things ever.


Vasharan Offal Bag: From The Book of Vile Darkness, it's essentially a giant bag of poop that summons a giant cockroach once a day. And it's made by this uber-evil race of humans who really, really should've at least been more creative than "Crap in a bag+make it magic = ROACHIE!". Though Sloth is a deadly sin...

THE NIPPLE CLAMP OF EXQUISITE PAIN!: Also from The Book of Vile Darkness. When I hear that item's name, I don't so much think "Evilly perverse sociopath" as "Insane wizard who really, really needs to get laid."

Wow. Was the 3e BoVD really that over the top? I mean, I knew it listed sadomasochism as an evil trait, but... Wow. :smallconfused:

Slipperychicken
2012-10-02, 10:57 AM
Wow. Was the 3e BoVD really that over the top? I mean, I knew it listed sadomasochism as an evil trait, but... Wow. :smallconfused:

A trait more common in Evil creatures, though not Evil in and of itself. People seem to love glossing over that detail...

tbok1992
2012-10-19, 11:07 PM
Also, I must mention that Bogleech (http://www.bogleech.com/) has a really hilarious article on The Book of Vile Darkness (http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hall12-viledarkness.html), making fun of all the stupid in it (except for, unfortunately, THE NIPPLE CLAMP OF EXQUISITE PAIN!), and I highly recommend you check it out.

Also, there's a 9th level spell in "Exemplars of Evil" named "Ring of Fire". Not sure if it counts, but I find the idea of a spell named after a Johnny Cash song hilarious and am eagerly awaiting a 9th level Necromancy spell known as "Ghost Riders in the Sky"