[3.5/PF] Optimizing Paladin for Ravenloft, Need Help

[Mcdt2]

I've managed to convince my buddy to run the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft module, and I decided to try out a paladin for once, as I have never played them myself in 3.5, except as NPC's, seeing as I normally DM and rarely have the oppurtunity to play. We're starting at level 6, and I have a few ideas about my build thus far. I think I want to take a level 1 dip in sorceror, grabing the verbal only spells True Strike and either the Word of Pain or the Word of Fatigue, but after that I'm at a bit of a loss.

We are in fact playing a 3.5 campaign, but we are using the Pathfinder version of the paladin's class features, and subsequently thier ACF's, as a sort of buff to paladins. I planned to roll my stats (standard 4d6b3), but I am fine with point buy up to a certain point (32 pb at most). Given all this I want to see what I can do with what I'm given, namely, every splatbook printed. I'm interested in a mounted build, but I'm not sure how other pathfinder ACF's are, so I'm uncertain how good they might be.Let's see what you got, Playground.

[Snowbluff]

Don't dip. Also, since you are trying something new, I won't suggest Prestige Paladin.

Fist of Raziel (BoED). Your PF Smite Duration, plus the extra smiting from FoR should make a nice combo. Alternatively, refluff Ruby Knight Vindicator, and get into that.

Take Battle Blessing.

Grab a wand of Knight's Move, and put it in your Sword's Wand Chamber. Have a rogue in your party to flank with.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Knight of the Raven isn't bad for a smite happy paladin IIRC; but yeah fist of Raziel is the best option if you want to focus on smite.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you want to combine Sorcerer and Paladin, the standard Sorcadin build goes Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8. Like all arcane gish builds, it's a bit of a late-bloomer, but you'll be far better off than if you'd just dipped Sorcerer 1 on an otherwise straight Paladin.

If you want a lot of Paladin levels, go Cloistered Cleric 1/ Paladin 19 for your final build. Get the Inquisition domain, and get Knowledge Devotion and Law Devotion. Take the Divine Counterspell ACF in CM for Paladin, and I'd also get Charging Smite from PH2. There's also the Harmonious Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levels, and then free class features (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). You can also switch some class skills (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) if you want Tumble, and Stand Fast is also there if you don't like Charging Smite.

Take Practiced Spellcaster: Paladin at 1st or 3rd, and pick up Divine Defiance from FC2 at 6th, and I'd also get Power Attack. You can spend a Turn use (from Cleric) to activate Divine Defiance, which allows you to attempt a counterspell as an immediate action, which you use to activate Divine Counterspell. Alternatively, get Holy Warrior in CC to trade your Paladin spellcasting for bonus feats (I wouldn't), in which case you can take Practiced Spellcaster: Cleric to qualify for Divine Defiance at your Paladin 4 bonus feat, and still be able to use wands and scrolls of Cleric spells. Get at least one rank in every Knowledge skill that can be used with Knowledge Devotion (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Religion, Planes), and pick up the Collector of Stories skill trick in CS. Get at least 5 ranks in Kn: Arcana for the bonus to your Divine Counterspell ability, which the Inqisition domain also benefits, as does any item that increases your effective level for Turn Undead.

Starting gear should include a Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC), Ephod of Authority (MIC), Armbands of Might (MIC), a decent two-handed weapon with a Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape), a Wand of Rhino's Rush (SpC), a Wand of Lesser Vigor (SpC) for healing up between encounters, some decent armor, Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101), etc. You can also switch Law Devotion for the Magic domain and get a few wands of choice Wizard spells (Power Word: Pain and/or Web, I wouldn't bother with True Strike). You should Power Attack for -2 to hit, for +6 damage two-handed with the Armbands of Might. Rhino's Rush makes you deal double damage on a charge, and with Charging Smite you'll add +3 damage per Paladin level. With Str 14 and a +1 Greatsword, you'll deal 4d6+50 damage with Rhino's Rush and Charging Smite at 6th level. Note that a critical hit is a multiplier like Rhino's Rush, so a critical hit with that would be 6d6+75.

[Mcdt2]

I've checked out the Fist of Raziel, and it seems kinda bland to me. Besides, the adventure only goes to 9th level, and there are no plans to continue it past that point thus far. Seeing as Fist can only be entered as early as level 7, I would only be able to take the first 3 levels of it. The PF smite already pierces all DR, and the 1 extra smite/day doesn't seem worth it to me, and I'd rather take the lay on hands, divine bond, and channel energy that straight paladin gives me. It also doesn't really fit the image I'm looking for, as I'm a paladin of the Church of Ezra (the lawful good sect). It's a church that venerates the Mists and seeks to help people avoid dying to Ravenloft's dangers. Are there any PrC's that let paladin's have a more diverse support role, perhaps?

[Snowbluff]

more diverse support role

:smallsigh:

What people don't get about the Paladin is that it is not very versatile. You have an insanely limited spell list that has received relatively poor splat support and a very limited number of slots. In reality, you can't do much more that smite, some limited healing, and a couple of buffs, most of which are either personal or obsolete by the time you get them.

That being said, see if you DM will let you take the Mystic Fire Knight ACF.

[Private]

I'd advise just going 5 Cleric and take 1 level in Prestige Paladin. You don't lose any of your casting, PLUS you add all Paladin spells to your spell list at the same level. For instance, you get Holy Sword as a 4th level spell, which means at 7th level, you can have a +5 Holy Holy Weapon which also emits a Magic Circle v. Evil. That alone would shoot your Melee abilities pretty high, plus all of the standard buffs (Divine Favor/Power, Righteous Might, etc.).

I played this campaign one time and went with a Warlock/Cleric/Eldritch Disciple, going with a Psionic Race for Psionic Shot and Greater PS on the Eldritch Blast. Add that on to the Destroy Undead ACF from EtCR and you will be pretty ready to dominate, not to mention heal your party.

I knwo these aren't standard paladin options, but they are useful and still have a similar flavor.

[Mcdt2]

:smallsigh:

What people don't get about the Paladin is that it is not very versatile. You have an insanely limited spell list that has received relatively poor splat support and a very limited number of slots. In reality, you can't do much more that smite, some limited healing, and a couple of buffs, most of which are either personal or obsolete by the time you get them.

That being said, see if you DM will let you take the Mystic Fire Knight ACF.

Yeah this is basically what I was afraid of. I've seen a lot of splat books, but next to none have anything for paladins except smting and other combat things. The healing is vastly imrpoved in the PF version, but still...

That being said, I like the idea of the harmonious Knight Sub levels brought up earlier in the thread. Now if I can convince my DM to let the effect scale like it does wth bards (probably at a slower rate) then it might be worth it for a harmonizing weapon. PF's Sacred Servant archetype would give me a domain spell list, but the divine bond (holy symbol) is kinda pathetic looking and the slowed smite evil progression would suck.:smallsigh:

[God Imperror]

Yeah this is basically what I was afraid of. I've seen a lot of splat books, but next to none have anything for paladins except smting and other combat things. The healing is vastly imrpoved in the PF version, but still...

That being said, I like the idea of the harmonious Knight Sub levels brought up earlier in the thread. Now if I can convince my DM to let the effect scale like it does wth bards (probably at a slower rate) then it might be worth it for a harmonizing weapon. PF's Sacred Servant archetype would give me a domain spell list, but the divine bond (holy symbol) is kinda pathetic looking and the slowed smite evil progression would suck.:smallsigh:

A small trick for that is divine prankster from races of stone, it is important to use the adaptation, that specifically mentions not being a worshiper of carl glittergold (nor a gnome if hat matters)

[Venusaur]

Someone mentioned battle blessing, and I can't emphasize enough how good this feat is. Free +4 metamagic to all your spells? Sign me up! Also, depending on your stats Serenity from Dragon Compendium is good to shift all your Charisma based abilities to wisdom.