Spells with XP Costs

[demigodus]

Is there a way to cast these spells without paying an XP cost? Other than buying scrolls of them at least?

I figure there must be some way to sacrifice an innocent child's soul in place of some xp...

[watchwood]

If you look hard enough there's probably some means of evil blood magic. If not, talk to your DM about houseruling it. I had an NPC wizard in a campaign who did exactly that.

[Alleran]

The Book of Vile Darkness has rules for sacrificing a soul in exchange for experience points (which you could then funnel into casting a spell).

I'm not sure about any blood magic. The only blood magic "class" I can recall offhand is the Blood Magus in Complete Arcane.

[demigodus]

I can only find sacrificing someone to avoid crafting costs in the Book of Vile Darkness. And only if you worship a dickish god...

I would rather do this without any homebrewing (hence why I'm looking for methods here). The character in question is a Druid, so pulling a Wizard won't work.

[Jeff the Green]

You could use a Thought Bottle.

[TuggyNE]

You could use a Thought Bottle.

Flat 500xp fee for use, if I recall correctly.

[Flickerdart]

The BoVD method is using a Pain Extractor to convert a victim's Constitution into Liquid Pain, but you need tons of it to pay any significant costs. Really, you're just better off mind controlling or binding stuff that can do it, and then getting it to use the ability or spell you want.

[Jeff the Green]

I'm AFB at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that both agony (BoVD) and ambrosia (BoED) can only be used for crafting, not XP components.

[Anthrowhale]

A classic approach is Dweomerkeeper with Supernatural Spell.

[Coidzor]

Well, there's the LE mendicant scheme of using liquid ambrosia or whatever it's called via those piercing rings that turn pain into pleasure and running a free or low-cost clinic or system of clinics.

[karkus]

I believe that, in Chapter 2: Variant Rules, of The Book of Vile Darkness, they are two areas titled "Souls as Power" and "Pain as Power." Using Pain as power is pretty weak, giving you a mere 3 XP/day of non-stop "work" (you must torture someone for 24 hours straight and cast a 3rd-level Cleric spell) in order to get a "dose" of Pain. A dose of pure Pain could also be bought, as it is a drug, on the black market, but that's still a slow process.

Using souls as power is much easier, especially for someone with at least 6 levels of some sort of Rebuking class. This seems like a slow process at first, giving you (I think) 10 XP/soul. You must somehow "bind" a soul into a gem or whatever and then can use it as XP. However, if you are a 6th-level Rebuker (as noted above), you must merely Command a Shadow and then have it drain the energy of its enemies, making its Spawn. Doing so is like planting a mighty oak tree; you need to give it some TLC (Tender Loving Care, for those who are not aware of its usage) to, let's say, "cultivate" it in the beginning, but once it grows bigger, it can be nearly impossible to get rid of it.

Simply tell it to have its Spawn go out and make even more Spawn, and then have them all come back to you when there are enough to supplement your XP costs. It states that you can use incorporeal undead as "Soul Power," so just wait until there are X amount of Shadows (X=amount of experience points needed times 10) to give you your free XP.

Also, if you are a 10th- or even a 14th-level Rebuker, you can Command Wraiths or even Spectres (respectively) to reduce the amount of time required to drain foes' energy and subsequently make them into Spawn (Shadows drain a small amount of Str, Wraiths drain a decent amount of Con, and Spectres drain 2 negative levels, requiring only 1 drain on common folk).

tl;dr get Spawn-making, incorporeal undead and use them to give you XP

[Jack_Simth]

Is there a way to cast these spells without paying an XP cost? Other than buying scrolls of them at least?

I figure there must be some way to sacrifice an innocent child's soul in place of some xp...

Quite a few. Many have been mentioned above. There are also various critters that have such spells as spell-like abilities (for which they don't pay XP, due to the nature of spell-like abilities). So if you Planar Bind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarBinding.htm) a Glabrezou (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#glabrezu), you can have it grant you a Wish. If Wish is what you want, you're set. If Wish is not what you want, you have it use the magic item creation clause to create a scroll of the spell you do want (which comes pre-loaded with the XP). Note: DO NOT USE EFREETI FOR THIS. Sure, they look like they're good for it... but read up on the actual MM I description of them, and, well, Efreeti abuse is suicide, really.

[Ernir]

The Rod of Excellent Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rods.htm#excellentMagic) is good at this.

But it's... kind of expensive.

[Slipperychicken]

You could go the Pathfinder route, and simply remove XP components altogether, instead requiring material components equal to 5 times xp cost. IMO, xp components are horrible and Paizo was right to remove them in Pathfinder.

[Deadlights]

You could go the Pathfinder route, and simply remove XP components altogether, instead requiring material components equal to 5 times xp cost. IMO, xp components are horrible and Paizo was right to remove them in Pathfinder.

Right, they just added gold costs to everything to compensate. I would consult the PFSRD for all spells that have XP costs. For spells that aren't in the PFSRD, just find one with similar xp costs in 3.5 and use the PF gold costs instead.

[Jack_Simth]

Right, they just added gold costs to everything to compensate. I would consult the PFSRD for all spells that have XP costs. For spells that aren't in the PFSRD, just find one with similar xp costs in 3.5 and use the PF gold costs instead.

It's a flat formula. 5 gp per xp.

[Fates]

Meh, personally, from a roleplaying perspective, I don't like the pathfinder approach. In my games, I like to stress that magic items, and spells like wish, mean something, and are special. A player is way more likely to hold onto an item for which he sacrificed his very life essence than he is an item he can sell for as much as it cost him to make it- he's also going to think a lot harder about what is worth casting a wish for- if he can just throw some diamonds into the air and have his wildest dreams realized, it takes a lot of the meaning from the spell.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Meh, personally, from a roleplaying perspective, I don't like the pathfinder approach. In my games, I like to stress that magic items, and spells like wish, mean something, and are special. A player is way more likely to hold onto an item for which he sacrificed his very life essence than he is an item he can sell for as much as it cost him to make it- he's also going to think a lot harder about what is worth casting a wish for- if he can just throw some diamonds into the air and have his wildest dreams realized, it takes a lot of the meaning from the spell.

Between this, and the fact that XP is guaranteed at the end of an encounter while gp isn't, and if you use enough xp to fall a level behind the rest of the party you get extra xp until you catch back up, XP as a cost isn't a problem at all.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm assuming you have never heard of the phrase 'riding the xp curl'... I suggest you google it.

[Slipperychicken]

Meh, personally, from a roleplaying perspective, I don't like the pathfinder approach. In my games, I like to stress that magic items, and spells like wish, mean something, and are special. A player is way more likely to hold onto an item for which he sacrificed his very life essence than he is an item he can sell for as much as it cost him to make it- he's also going to think a lot harder about what is worth casting a wish for- if he can just throw some diamonds into the air and have his wildest dreams realized, it takes a lot of the meaning from the spell.

I think it's much more bizarre for a Wizard to use the most powerful magic in the game and find himself less powerful than before. Also, 25k isn't "some diamonds", that's equivalent to five hundred pounds of gold. Normal people might make 1 gold a week, if they're lucky. It's like burning one or two of those obscene money stacks which drug lords have -a massive sacrifice for a massive reward.

Crafting magic items, if anything, should give xp, not take it away. Why would a Wizard get worse at magic for crafting magic items? It would be like getting worse at marksmanship because you decided to modify guns in your spare time.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think it's much more bizarre for a Wizard to use the most powerful magic in the game and find himself less powerful than before. Also, 25k isn't "some diamonds", that's equivalent to five hundred pounds of gold. Normal people might make 1 gold a week, if they're lucky. It's like burning one or two of those obscene money stacks which drug lords have -a massive sacrifice for a massive reward.

Crafting magic items, if anything, should give xp, not take it away. Why would a Wizard get worse at magic for crafting magic items? It would be like getting worse at marksmanship because you decided to modify guns in your spare time.

You can't spend xp if doing so would cause you to lose a level. This goes for both crafting and spellcasting.

You -can- choose not to level up when you have enough experience if you'd rather spend the xp on crafting or spells though.

[Slipperychicken]

You can't spend xp if doing so would cause you to lose a level. This goes for both crafting and spellcasting.

You -can- choose not to level up when you have enough experience if you'd rather spend the xp on crafting or spells though.

The point still stands: building things makes you not learn as fast.

[Zaydos]

The point still stands: building things makes you not learn as fast.

To bind the magic into the item you imbue it with a portion of your essence (see Sauron and the One Ring).

Edit: Just thought I add the note that in the older editions making magic items did give you XP, but also required questing for magic materials.

Okay there's a reason I use power components (Dragon Magazine I forget which one had a tiger man on the cover). Simple system for using items with the predefined ratio established in XPH (where they replaced GP costs with 1/5th their cost in XP). Though the suggestion was power components are rare, and hard to come by (some were pieces of great wyrm dragons). But that doesn't help the OP unless Dragon Magazine material is allowed.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The point still stands: building things makes you not learn as fast.

Easy explanation: you're imbuing a piece of your very soul into an object/ burning it off for a single magical effect. The trauma this does to your mind, while not immediately observable, reduces your ability to learn the lessons new experiences would otherwise teach for a time proportionate with the energy spent.

How's that?

[Flickerdart]

Easier explanation: instead of being out there practicing sweet moves to try on the next monster you see, or researching new ways of transmuting orcs into crispy bacon, you're fiddling with a screwdriver and trying to make sense of an instruction manual written in Undercommon.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Easier explanation: instead of being out there practicing sweet moves to try on the next monster you see, or researching new ways of transmuting orcs into crispy bacon, you're fiddling with a screwdriver and trying to make sense of an instruction manual written in Undercommon.

I thought of that, but that's the explanation for why you don't get xp for crafting, more than an explanation for why, if you spend as much time adventuring as the rest of the party but also spend time crafting while they don't, you level up slower than they do.

[Flickerdart]

Well, here the assumption is that you don't actually get better at knowing about law after you kill 30 rats, instead you get better at law when you're studying law between adventures (putting your life experiences, as it were, towards developing your skills). A crafter would be letting his experiences go to waste because instead of capitalizing on all that stuff while it's fresh in memory, he's fiddling with little bits in the workshop.

[Fates]

I think it's much more bizarre for a Wizard to use the most powerful magic in the game and find himself less powerful than before. Also, 25k isn't "some diamonds", that's equivalent to five hundred pounds of gold. Normal people might make 1 gold a week, if they're lucky. It's like burning one or two of those obscene money stacks which drug lords have -a massive sacrifice for a massive reward.

Crafting magic items, if anything, should give xp, not take it away. Why would a Wizard get worse at magic for crafting magic items? It would be like getting worse at marksmanship because you decided to modify guns in your spare time.

Blech, this is what everyone says. The point is that you're sacrificing your own power in order to accomplish the greatest feat imaginable, leaving you weakened until you can regain your edge. It's a pretty common theme in fantasy, actually. And I know that 25000 gpis a lot in D&D, to a player who can cast 9th-level spells, it's nothing.

As far as magic items goes, same thing. Magic items were originally intended to be something rare and special-most magic swords were given names and even histories. Magic items aren't the type of thing you should make as many of as you want without any drawbacks. They are supposed to be something the creator considers worth investing a spark of his magical energy for. Getting exp for making them wouldn't make any sense at all.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think it's much more bizarre for a Wizard to use the most powerful magic in the game and find himself less powerful than before. Also, 25k isn't "some diamonds", that's equivalent to five hundred pounds of gold. Normal people might make 1 gold a week, if they're lucky. It's like burning one or two of those obscene money stacks which drug lords have -a massive sacrifice for a massive reward.

Crafting magic items, if anything, should give xp, not take it away. Why would a Wizard get worse at magic for crafting magic items? It would be like getting worse at marksmanship because you decided to modify guns in your spare time.

Responding again because I feel my initial comment wasn't clear enough.

Because a character can't burn off enough xp to lose a level, paying xp costs, in fact, does not make you "worse at magic" it just means you learn new things slower.

My other response gave, IMO, a reasonable explanation for this slowed learning.

[Kuulvheysoon]

It's trivially easy to break the WBL rates if you want (Ladder, meet handaxe).

Dragon Magic actually had some neat ideas for ignoring XP components for crafting dweomered dragon scales, such as the scale needing to be freely given, etc...

Might be an interesting alternative.

[Psyren]

@ XP costs going away in PF: I liked the DSP approach. 3.5 Psionics was full of powers that had XP components instead of gp ones, representing the thematic lack of reliance on externalities in the system. In order to follow PF design principles without tacking gp costs onto everything, the designers had to get creative.

For some of the really cheap XP costs, they waived them entirely (e.g. Ensconce (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/e/ensconce), aka Psionic Sequester. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sequesterPsionic.htm)) For others, they added exotic components (expensive crystals, incense, ink etc.) as above (e.g. Reality Revision. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/r/reality-revision))

The third option was the one I considered cool - they added negative levels (or functional, but harder to remove equivalents) and/or ability burn costs onto some powers, which work just as well as XP costs at discouraging spammability if they can't be easily healed away. Examples were powers like Psychic Chirurgery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/p/psychic-chirurgery), Psionic Revivify (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/p/psionic-revivify) and Psychic Reformation. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/p/psychic-reformation)

[searlefm]

I believe it may be possible to convert a single spell at a time to have no xp or material cost by the abuse of the following feats

'Quicken Spell (PH)', 'Silent Spell (PH)', and 'Still Spell (PH)'
so that you can get 'Innate Spell (FRCS)'
Innate Spell will turn one spell into a spell like ability but i keeps the xp and material cost.

then comes the magic part, as the spell (lets be honest its ether wish or miracle nothing else is worth this effort unless you have an insane love of fireballs that solve all the worlds problems) is technically a spell like ability you can get 'Supernatural Transformation (SS)' that turns the chosen spell into a supernatural ability.

this would allow you to fling wishes and miracle around to your harts content, lowering there value to a point where there worth using to refill you drink or cook your food with:smallbiggrin: at this point your DM has ether failed his sanity check and is frothing at the mouth or is just screaming 'NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!'

there is a limit for the supernatural ability with a minimum of one I'd personally guess the spells converted like this are given the limit of how meany times you could cast them before you converted them to supernatural ability's so I suggest taking 'Versatile Spellcaster (RDr)' so the limit should be 9th level+1/2(8th level) so you average wizard could get it twice a day at level 18 3 times at 19 and 4 at 20th level, its far from infinite, but there free and cast instantly

or if you play as a 9/9 or 9/9/9 or 9/9/9/9 caster or something silly with 'Alternate Spell Source (Dragon #325)' expect to re-roll you character as they may achieve up to 100 wish/miracle that are all cast as free actions.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread necromancy.