Can Polymorph Any Object be used to sculpt metal?

[Masaioh]

I'm creating an epic golem for a campaign, which is made out of a homebrew metal I created. I looked at the construction rules for mithral and adamantine golems, and they must be sculpted from a block of the respective metal.

The problem is that the metal I am using is too dense to be shaped using nonmagical means. Can metal be shaped using polymorph any object? If not, what spell can do the job?

[Flickerdart]

Fabricate seems to be precisely what you're looking for.

[Knaight]

It works, but it is dispellable. The PaO table is:
{table]Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral)| +5
Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.)| +2
Same size| +2
Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.)| +2
Same or lower Intelligence| +2[/table]

All of these are valid, meaning that you are looking at +13. +9 or higher is permanent. That said, you'd be better off with Fabricate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fabricate.htm), which is an instantaneous effect.

[Masaioh]

Fabricate seems to be precisely what you're looking for.

Seems so. I decided that the fabricate must be heightened to 9th level in order to work. This is a metal formed from sediment subject to the infinite pressure resulting from the infinite water in the Elemental Plane of Water, thus it is nearly indestructible.

[Jack_Simth]

Seems so. I decided that the fabricate must be heightened to 9th level in order to work. This is a metal formed from sediment subject to the infinite pressure resulting from the infinite water in the Elemental Plane of Water, thus it is nearly indestructible.
...

The plane of water must be infinitely hostile in your campaign world.

Really, though, an infinite plane doesn't have infinite pressure. Sure, there's infinite water in all directions... but the gravity of it works out in such a way that for all practical purposes, gravity doesn't exist (you're pulled equally in all directions, making a net force of 0).

[TuggyNE]

Seems so. I decided that the fabricate must be heightened to 9th level in order to work.

I second the calls of fabricate, but Heightening a spell that doesn't have a save is really weird, albeit technically legal.


This is a metal formed from sediment subject to the infinite pressure resulting from the infinite water in the Elemental Plane of Water, thus it is nearly indestructible.

Compressed sediment forms shale, limestone, or other rocks, not metal. :smallconfused: (Also, subjective gravity means this is .... more than a little odd.)

[Knaight]

Compressed sediment forms shale, limestone, or other rocks, not metal. :smallconfused: (Also, subjective gravity means this is .... more than a little odd.)

With the pressure being discussed, it forms neutronium.

[Jack_Simth]

With the pressure being discussed, it forms neutronium.
With infinite pressure, you don't get neutronium. You get a black hole. Neutronium can't take infinite pressure. Neither can black hole matter. It just collapses forever.

[tyckspoon]

Seems so. I decided that the fabricate must be heightened to 9th level in order to work. This is a metal formed from sediment subject to the infinite pressure resulting from the infinite water in the Elemental Plane of Water, thus it is nearly indestructible.

I'd do something like ore from the heart of Elemental Earth, which requires its counterparts from the other planes to be worked.. so it must be purified in a furnace lit by the flames of the Plane of Fire, stoked by the wind of the Plane of Air, and quenched/have the impurities removed by a stream from the Plane of Water. Which, practically speaking, means you have to cast Fabricate while standing in the middle of a four-way Gate between all the Elemental Planes. That should justify a suitably (E)pic material.

[Knaight]

With infinite pressure, you don't get neutronium. You get a black hole. Neutronium can't take infinite pressure. Neither can black hole matter. It just collapses forever.

This is assuming that infinite is a hyperbolic phrase and not the value, which makes sense given the assumption of something being formed through being crushed.

[Jack_Simth]

I second the calls of fabricate, but Heightening a spell that doesn't have a save is really weird, albeit technically legal.
There's a couple of reasons one might do so. For instance, Fabricate is a 5th level Instantaneous Transmutation spell, by default - making it subject to being undone via Break Enchantment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm). And it's really, really awkward when the armor you made for the Cleric suddenly turns back to ore, trashing the enchantments you put on it, just because you had to cast the spell to fix a baelful polymorph.

[Flickerdart]

There's a couple of reasons one might do so. For instance, Fabricate is a 5th level Instantaneous Transmutation spell, by default - making it subject to being undone via Break Enchantment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm). And it's really, really awkward when the armor you made for the Cleric suddenly turns back to ore, trashing the enchantments you put on it, just because you had to cast the spell to fix a baelful polymorph.
Break Enchantment cannot target an armour, because it targets creatures and affects effects on those creatures.

[TuggyNE]

With the pressure being discussed, it forms neutronium.

Which is extremely exotic, may or may not exist in D&D physics (the presence of the neutronium golem forming, if anything, something of an argument for its absence :smallyuk:), isn't really metallic, and is not stable at normal pressures.
Die, feline females!


I'd do something like ore from the heart of Elemental Earth, which requires its counterparts from the other planes to be worked.. so it must be purified in a furnace lit by the flames of the Plane of Fire, stoked by the wind of the Plane of Air, and quenched/have the impurities removed by a stream from the Plane of Water. Which, practically speaking, means you have to cast Fabricate while standing in the middle of a four-way Gate between all the Elemental Planes. That should justify a suitably (E)pic material.

An excellent suggestion, and I heartily second it.


There's a couple of reasons one might do so. For instance, Fabricate is a 5th level Instantaneous Transmutation spell, by default - making it subject to being undone via Break Enchantment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm). And it's really, really awkward when the armor you made for the Cleric suddenly turns back to ore, trashing the enchantments you put on it, just because you had to cast the spell to fix a baelful polymorph.

True. Hmm. :smallsigh: (I did know why it was legal in the general case — ensuring you have an out for (lesser) sphere of invulnerability and friends — but not in this specific case.)

Edit:
Break Enchantment cannot target an armour, because it targets creatures and affects effects on those creatures.

Handy. The general case is still applicable, of course, but not apparently any sensible fabricate usage (barring even more exotic corner cases).

[Masaioh]

There's a couple of reasons one might do so. For instance, Fabricate is a 5th level Instantaneous Transmutation spell, by default - making it subject to being undone via Break Enchantment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm). And it's really, really awkward when the armor you made for the Cleric suddenly turns back to ore, trashing the enchantments you put on it, just because you had to cast the spell to fix a baelful polymorph.

I just wanted the golem to require another 9th-level spell, as this golem will be stronger than an adamantine golem. Using Vorpal Tribble's calculator, it comes out at CR 30, and I haven't even given it any special attacks yet.

And no, the golem isn't made of neutronium.

EDIT: Didn't someone on this forum find the stats for an actual neutronium golem? I remember it having a CR with at least 3 digits.

EDIT 2: found it with google. CR 9721.

[TuggyNE]

I just wanted the golem to require another 9th-level spell, as this golem will be stronger than an adamantine golem.

As a possible alternative, require gate. This would even tie in neatly with the multiple-plane forging idea.


EDIT: Didn't someone on this forum find the stats for an actual neutronium golem? I remember it having a CR with at least 3 digits.

EDIT 2: found it with google. CR 9721.

Yes, that's the one I was referring to. The stuff in the Immortals Handbook might reasonably be considered a lesson in how not to DM for very high levels. CR 9721 is still, of course, defeatable by dozens, perhaps, of Wizard 20 builds. (Without permanent death; or, in most cases, without any death at all.)

[Seffbasilisk]

Alternatively, if you have a caster who took the feat 'Disintegration Finesse' with Craft: Sculpting and you had a big enough block of it, you could have them disintegrate away the bits you don't like.

[Masaioh]

Almost finished the golem. I have one important question, and I didn't think it merited a new thread: can armour be sundered?

[Flickerdart]

No - Sundering is only for weapons or shields. To destroy a carried or worn object that isn't one of those, you just attack it.

[Masaioh]

No - Sundering is only for weapons or shields. To destroy a carried or worn object that isn't one of those, you just attack it.

Alright. I decided to give the golem the ability to auto-sunder all applicable objects held by whatever it hits, using the same attack and damage rolls.