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LTwerewolf
2012-09-09, 09:45 AM
Howdy folks. I'm part of a 3.5 game and we're all really underwhelmed with the fighter (and a couple other classes like monk and ranger), so I was asked to homebrew a new one that will make them a better class, but at the same time making them so they're still good 1/2 level dips. here's what I came up with.

Give fighter a good will save to go with his good fort save.
Give fighter proficiency with the non-obscure exotic weapons (double weapons, racial specific weapons are still exotic, but things like the bastard sword would not be)

Add concentration to fighter skill list
Increase fighter skills to 3+int

Allow weapon specialization line (or any feat that specifies weapon) to apply to any weapon a fighter practices with for 1 hour that day. Works like the warblade feature.

Keep the bonus feat at level 1 and 2, same as the fighter has now. Also allow any fighter to be counted as medium size for checks (such as grapple)
Level 2- battle hardened- gain +1 natural ac and 1 more for every 4 fighter levels (for a maximum of +5 at 18). This does not stack with any other natural ac bonus other than enhancement.

Level 3- when using charisma based skills, the fighter may use an alternate attribute depending on their fighting style. This is when the fighting style is chosen. 2h and TWF may use str, bows (if you have the weapon finesse feat, TWF uses dex instead of str) use dex, and sword and board use con. Also get improved bull rush as a bonus feat.

Level 5– For most classes, this is the level that starts to define the class. Allow fighters to specialize in a weapon style. TWF, bows, sword and shield, or 2h. For TWF give them the ability to attack with both weapons as a standard, and the TWF feat. For sword and shield, let them use shield ac as part of their touch ac. Bows get precise shot. 2h gets power attack. Gets improved trip as a bonus feat.

Level 7- Give the fighter damage reduction based on armor type. 1/- for light, 3/- for medium, 5/- for heavy. This is to help with those touch attacks that murder heavily armored fighters.

Level 9- Allow the fighter to count as large size for size modifying checks such as grapple, trip, etc. Also add the fighter’s level to the amount of hit die healed. Gets improved grapple as bonus feat.

Level 10- Allow the fighter to gain tactical advantages with his allies. Increase flanking bonus to +4 attack and +2 damage when flanking for both the fighter and the ally directly flanking with him. All others involved in the flanking get the normal bonus.

Level 11- allow for further specialization in the combat style. Sword and board gains shield bash, and the shield gains the enhancement bonus for attacks as well as ac. TWF gets improved TWF. Bows get multishot and rapid shot. 2h gets the ability to treat their 2h weapon’s enhancement bonus as a deflection bonus to AC.

Level 14- Fighter counts as huge size for grapples, etc. A fighter subject to the swallow whole ability gets to treat one attack as a coup de grace if they make a concentration check (DC=10+creature’s hit dice)

Level 16- A fighter can no longer be disarmed while conscious.

Level 18- further combat style mastery. Sword and board can reflect their constitution modifier number of spells aimed at them (or are in the area of effect of) per day. 2h gets the pounce ability. TWF can make an equal number of attacks with their offhand as their main hand. Bows gain the ability to power attack with ranged weapons.

Level 20- Fighters have learned enough about their art that they understand their weaknesses. They gain the combat style and improved combat style of one other combat style. Fighters also count as gargantuan for checks (such as grapple, etc)


The idea behind this fighter is to make him/her more of a battlefield presence, and make them worth sticking with.

Hoping for some feedback from here so I can make it better.

LTwerewolf
2012-09-10, 10:30 AM
Any chance I could get some feedback? Trying to make it a solid tier 3 class, and constructive criticism is welcome.

Roderick_BR
2012-09-10, 12:06 PM
I just finished reading it, and here's some reviews:
First, you can find in this forum some cool fighter fixes that can help a fighter be more useful. True Tier 3 is hard, as it needs a lot of work. I have an old fix in my sig where it just gives the weapon focus/specialization to a broad selection of weapons, leaving your feats free to buy more important stuff (I have a couple more complex ones, but I need to review them first).

That said, I'll analyze your class.

1: Not sure about a good will save. They are usually reserved for full/partial casters or thematic classes (like monk). If you think your fighter needs it, go ahead.

2: More skills are never bad. Just give him 4 skill points per level (D&D 3.e and 3.5 doesn't use odd numbers, and 4 is fine for a non-magic user). Concentration is not really that useful either. I'd suggest Diplomacy, Listen, and Spot, as those can fit commanders and guards. The rest is too specialized for other classes (spellcraft, move silently, etc).

3: Fighters don't need even more weapons. You could allow a player to swap his Tower Shield Proficiency for an exotic weapon at 1st level.

4: Bonuses to size. Kind of a gray area. If you give it too early, and all at once, it becomes a dipping level. Also allowing fighters to grapple titans and dragons is a bit too much. Maybe spread the size bonus (one is enough) effect through several levels (grapple, bullrush, trip, disarm)

5: Fighting styles: fighters already have enough feats. Just fix the existing ones and that's it (allow TWFers to attack with both weapons after walking, etc). Personal suggestion is to let shield AC bonus affect touch attacks.
There's already feats for better flanking, gaining DR from armor, etc.

Most of what I saw was more feats, size related bonuses, and some abilities to attack more often. If you playtest it a bit, you'll see that's not enough. Just look around other fixes and see if you can find something you like.

LTwerewolf
2012-09-10, 12:21 PM
2. Gave 3 skills just to give them a bit more, but not give them too many, I suppose I was trying to be a bit too conservative about it. We sometimes have people that abuse skills, so wasn't sure how a fighter with double the base skills would affect that.

3. The reason I wanted to do this one was more for continuity and we were thinking of houseruling it as a whole, making some of the more regular exotics not exotic. For example, in practice, swinging a bastard sword is pretty much the same as swinging a longsword.

4. I was wondering if i went a bit far with it, but I did stop at gargantuan and tried to stay one size level below what dragons of that level would be and waited until level 9 to give large size. I wanted fighters to still remain relevant against monsters when dealing with trips and grapples, since fighters as is suffer from simply being too small (and thus missing out on too many bonuses because of the modifiers). Should I go one size smaller than I did (huge vs gargantuan)?

5. With the fighting styles I wanted to get fighters away from just being feat monkeys, and giving them some actual class features that would reward one playstyle, similar to wizard specialization. They might be available via other feats or enchantments but with prereqs. that a lot of fighters can't meet while still being good at what they do. Was it too much?

Deepbluediver
2012-09-10, 12:44 PM
There is a link in my extended signature to my full fighter fix, which you are free to use if you like; I will summarize the major changes here for your benefit.

Skills- Added Search and Spot to the class skills list
Increased Skill points to 4 per level
Added as class feature called Adaptability at first level to allow increased fighter customization.
Adaptability
Fighters are a varied and adaptable lot, with an unusual and sometimes unexpected set of skills.
Pick any one skill (Knowledge and Perform skill selected individually) and add that skill to your list of class skills. You immediately gain ranks in it equal to your ECL+3. Afterwards, you must spend skill points to continue to improve this ability, as normal.

You may add an additional skill and immediately gain ranks in it at Fighter level 5, 10, 15, and 20.

Feats- Fighter bonus feat gained EVERY level, instead of every other level. Helps for mastering multiple combat styles and eliminated the dead-level issue.

Class abilities- added the Weapon and Armor masterys from the Pathfinder fighter. This helps the fighter with his most prominent area of expertise: combat! (I'd add a link, but my internet is crapping out at the moment)

New Stuff- I added an entirely new feature called Battlecrys, which are mostly short-term buffs, but also include other things like debuff-clearing and spell interuption for added versatility when hitting stuff with a pointy stick just isn't cutting it.



Some of this overlaps with what you have (for example, DR from wearing armor) and more feats means you can take things like Imp. Grapple, Trip, etc. Generally though, to fully be Tier 3, a fighter can't just be better at what he does, he has to be able to do more things well than the RAW fighter is able to.

ProudGrognard
2012-09-12, 12:43 AM
Hi LTwerewolf,

I also fiddled with a fighter fix some time ago, which does similar things to yours. Here is a link, in case it is helpful:

http://tinyurl.com/8y5y258