Help making a sea chase interesting

[Kol Korran]

So the PCs pirate might get a ship in their desire to run away from The Empire (Trademark?) As an end scene for the session I intend to have an Empire ship chase them. The chasing ship is a real threat, if the party's ship is overtaken, it might be close to or an outright TPK.

Approximate power level and resources:
- The party will be 5 characters of 3rd level, one is beguiler and one is a spirit shaman. However I assume they'll be mostly depleted. They will also have an assortment of 5-10 extra crew members, levels 2-3 of PC and NPC levels, but not well equipped. one balista most likely.

-The EMpir'es ship has 20+ soldiers, mostly 5the level warriors, but also 2 3rd level clerics, a 5th level wizard, and a 7th level captain. all fresh and nicely equipped. 5 balista 9spread around the ship. The party does NOT want to battle this crew (yet)

Anything I come up for the chase seems boring:
- The ships are of a similar design (Caravel) which means their base speed are the same. I imagine that it then falls to a succession of Profession (sailor) checks? that seems kind of boring. "roll the dice- you get farther/ they catch up to you more". It might involve only one player, perhaps the crew.

- The crew will have a magical sail of storms, which can change wind direction and power near the ship (at some expense), but the party still don't quite know how to use it. It might give a player some rolls of UMD, but still fairly boring.

- Near the local is an ever raging storm, that affects the weather in the place. The party might try to risk it, hoping the other boat might sink only... the other boat is better prepared for storms, and a storm might sink the ship entirely at this level of skill (low levels).

- I have no idea hoe to make a ship chase any more interesting, and though I have some ideas what might happen if they are captured, I'd prefer to give the party a more interesting, thrilling chase, which is winnable.

Thoughts? help? comments?


(Search word: piratewitch)

[danzibr]

Aerial attacks from... Whatever. Maybe the bad dudes, maybe totally coincidence. Maybe harpies. Anyways, they tear at sails, have to kill them or scare them away before too long, otherwise ship gets a speed penalty. Or perhaps have it be like a full round action to do some sail check, bad dudes attack anyone trying it, make various checks to not lose it or teamwork.

If I think of something I'll post it here.

[theUnearther]

Though I don't really "do" pathfinder, they do have what I consider an extremely interesting implementation of chase rules.
Pathfinder SRD - Chases (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/chases)
It should not be too hard to adapt that to vehicles, though it WILL need some imagination to have them not all be Profession (Sailor) checks. But the fact is, if you have the party moving in a single vehicle and try to make that movement The Scene, you have effectively already squashed your party into a single character.
Or do each have their own ship? That could change things.

[danzibr]

You could also have the bad dudes deploy speed boats. And shoot fiery arrows or something so the party has to put out fires.

[rweird]

How far away are the ships, many chases might be with the ships on opposite horizons, sailing onwards for possibly days before they reach firing range. If it's that sort of thing, then have things like random encounters, and they can't spend to much time on them or the other ship closes in, and they can't let the ship get damaged beyond a certain point, if closer range, look into siege weapons and other long range attacks.

[Gerrtt]

Someone from the opposing crew could summon sea creatures for them to deal with?

Nothing says I love you like a fiendish octopus.

[ericgrau]

An extra long range could be why the potential TPK isn't a TPK, limiting them to only certain attacks. Summons are one good idea, ya. Teleport is another: it has a limited person capacity and accuracy meaning they'll need to take additional measures to avoid sinking. It would help to know what level everyone is.

And by sticking with standard measures the attacks can go both ways. The PCs might also get the idea to send back summons with orders to slow down their pursuers via ship damage rather than engage them directly.

[Agent 451]

- The ships are of a similar design (Caravel) which means their base speed are the same. I imagine that it then falls to a succession of Profession (sailor) checks? that seems kind of boring. "roll the dice- you get farther/ they catch up to you more". It might involve only one player, perhaps the crew.
(Search word: piratewitch)

Maybe you could have an enemy agent cut the rigging to the sails, or something else that slows the ship? Have the party have a head start that gives them X amount of time to somehow fix the damage before the looming threat of the enemy overtakes them. If your enemy agent is using small magics, it could turn into a mini quest to find and stop the perpetrator before the party has been slowed down too much to escape.

[Palanan]

You might also try throwing navigational choices at them, perhaps an archipelago they need to sail through, which they haven't explored before.

They won't know which course will lead to a better stretch of wind, for instance, or whether sailing north around a particular island will take them too close to reefs and the danger of coming aground.

This gives the players actual choices to make, beyond rolling Profession checks, and introduces a great deal of uncertainty into an otherwise linear escape.

And, of course, you can populate the islands with various peoples and personages...and maybe an outpost of the Empire, with a handy aspect mirror to report sightings if the PCs happen to sail by....

:smalltongue:

[Kol Korran]

Thanks people. From the suggestions it seems i haven't detailed the power level of this encounter. The party and crew are level 3, but should be depleted by then, and the Empire crew is better leveled (around 5th), better equipped, and fresh.

The party have a beguiler and spirit shaman of 3rd level, and possibly a 2nd level bard. this is the extent of their magical support (other than magical items)

The Empire has a 5th level wizard.

It seems a lot suggest summons/ different adversaries. aren't most summons close range? we're talking 500-1000 ft (at least) as a starting range. I'll need to think of potential other adversaries, but they'll feel very... forced to "just happen" in the middle of the chase.


Though I don't really "do" pathfinder, they do have what I consider an extremely interesting implementation of chase rules.
Pathfinder SRD - Chases (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/chases)
It should not be too hard to adapt that to vehicles, though it WILL need some imagination to have them not all be Profession (Sailor) checks. But the fact is, if you have the party moving in a single vehicle and try to make that movement The Scene, you have effectively already squashed your party into a single character.
Or do each have their own ship? That could change things.
The chase rules are interesting indeed, but what to do for obstacles? wind... currents... but anything else? You're right about grouping all characters to a "single character", but I'm looking for other things for the party to do on board... perhaps use their Balista? perhaps rally thecrew from an air of depression and doom? perhaps some sort of magic? (illusions?)


How far away are the ships, many chases might be with the ships on opposite horizons, sailing onwards for possibly days before they reach firing range. If it's that sort of thing, then have things like random encounters, and they can't spend to much time on them or the other ship closes in, and they can't let the ship get damaged beyond a certain point, if closer range, look into siege weapons and other long range attacks.
Strangely enough (and quite silly of me) I haven't though of the encounter distance before i read your post, But i maigine 500-1000 at least. It will be at night and the Empire will be humans, so I assume they couldn't trace the ship from some distance onwards, though not sure which... :smallfrown:


Teleport is another: it has a limited person capacity and accuracy meaning they'll need to take additional measures to avoid sinking. It would help to know what level everyone is.

I've detailed the level at the start of this post and Edited them to the opening post. i'm afraid both sides are two low a level for effective summons/ teleport.


Maybe you could have an enemy agent cut the rigging to the sails, or something else that slows the ship? Cool idea, I might use it in the future, but it just doesn't quite fit with the current situation.


You might also try throwing navigational choices at them, perhaps an archipelago they need to sail through, which they haven't explored before.

I was assuming that they will be sailing either to open ocean, or towards the ever raging storm... hmmm... but they might sail into the archipelago they've been adventuring in this past few sessions. If they do, that sure presents more options.
--------------------------------------
Thank you everyone. This seems quite a bit problematic, but I got some ideas. Perhaps I need some other climax?

Any other suggestions?

[Kelb_Panthera]

You've really got your work cut out for you if you're talking open ocean. The only part of one ship chasing another over open water is when the chaser catches up and battle begins.

Use the dice to determine if and how long the enemy will take to catch up if they go for open water (or just make a decision) before you ever start the session.

If they go for shallow water with lots of obstacles things could get interesting, especially if there's a way for them to modify the obstacles after they pass. (see the chase rules in DMG2 or import from pathfinder) Possible obstacles include: sandbars, reefs, sargassoes, overlooking cliffs crumbling and dropping big chunks of rock at the ships (this one is great for the PC's to alter the terrain as they pass), small maelstroms slowing or stalling the ships, sudden shifts in wind trying to blow the ship into the rocks if that sail you mentioned isn't being used, etc.

If they take the "cut through the storm" option, they've made a high-risk/ high-reward decision. Have the pursuer balk at the risk and let the excitement come from trying to survive the rigors of sailing through a storm-tossed sea. (Dealing with green water, nasty weather effects, getting lost in a storm that never ends, maybe a combat encounter with a creature or two with an affinity for storms, etc.)

[Firest Kathon]

- The crew will have a magical sail of storms, which can change wind direction and power near the ship (at some expense), but the party still don't quite know how to use it. It might give a player some rolls of UMD, but still fairly boring.

If they manage to get this item working, they've basically won the chase. Depending on the type of sails, a sailing ship can only manage an angle of approx. 80° (Square rig) to 45° (modern design) relative to the wind direction (i.e., if the wind is coming from north, a sqare rigged ship can sail only courses up to 280° or 80°, but not further north). If they manage to invert the wind direction for them locally, the empire ship has no chance at all to keep up.

There are many effects that affect a ship chase, such as local wind deviations (caused by the shape of the coast), but if you don't have a player with real-life knowledge about these, it will boil down to a bunch of dice rolls anyways.

Finally, a ship chase (not counting in magic) does boil down to who does the better manouvers.

[rweird]

Strangely enough (and quite silly of me) I haven't though of the encounter distance before i read your post, But i maigine 500-1000 at least. It will be at night and the Empire will be humans, so I assume they couldn't trace the ship from some distance onwards, though not sure which...


They could trace it if the ship has lights, then again, the PCs could use spells to put lights somewhere else and hide the ships lights drawing the enemy off course. for encounters, at that range, as long as the ships know where each other are, they can use ranged weapons (at large penalties) or siege weapons, the PCs can do so as well, giving the ranged characters something to do.

[robertbevan]

i don't know if this will help or not, but it's something i just thought up. it's more of an idea for your players than for you.

they could throw chum in the water behind them, hoping that by the time it attracts giant aggressive sea monsters, the other ship will be sailing over that area.

[Bouregard]

Let the adventurers meet pirates/mercenaries:
-They can either kill them as quickly as possible to avoid delays
-Tell them that the other ship is a far more juicy target filled with gold and what not, or why do you think they are so well armed?
-Bribe them to delay the pursuers

Open up a choice to travel through another countries water. The other ship has to take a detour to avoid a diplomatic incident, however that country may not like being used that way and this will result in other problems later on.

Calm weather / sea
Both ships can see each other but lack of wind make sailing for both ships impossible. Time to figure out how the sail works or bring out the paddles

Mutiny on board.
Some guys think that "The Empire" will catch them anyway and decide that if they where to hasten this, they may be granted pardon. Cue for a light detective story of "Who can we trust?".

Halfway throught the chase they figure out that rats got a good part of the food and tainted a good part of the water supply. If they don't want to starve/thirst shortly they have to make a quick stop to resupply at the coast at the risk of losing their headstart.

Multiple balistas? This means that even with the same ship type the chasing ship will be much deeper in the water and slower. A dangerous trip throught shallow water with extra difficult sailing checks may allow the fleeing ship to get a little distance.


Too slow? Too heavy! Time to ditch some loot and/or crewmembers... or unimportant things like anchors, lifeboats, replacement sails and other boring stuff.

[Kol Korran]

You've really got your work cut out for you if you're talking open ocean.

If they go for shallow water with lots of obstacles things could get interesting

If they take the "cut through the storm" option, they've made a high-risk/ high-reward decision.
These are indeed their main 3 options, using the storm sail another. I was more worried about the open water though, but i guess it's their choice to make.


If they manage to get this item working, they've basically won the chase.

Indeed. I'm trying to figure out how to make activating the sail more interesting...


(many good ideas)

The chase is across not that long a distance (starting at 500-1000ft) at night. I intend the party and their crew to fade away to the night if they can get far enough (the pursuers are mostly humans) Most of these ideas are cool for long term chases (lasting days), but in this case i need something more immediate. I loved the idea of mutiny. Might work quite well...

Thanks!

[Fitz10019]

Multiple balistas? This means that even with the same ship type the chasing ship will be much deeper in the water and slower. A dangerous trip [through] shallow water with extra difficult sailing checks may allow the fleeing ship to get a little distance.

Exactly. The PC ship is faster because it is lighter, but if they take a straight course, the balistas have a better chance to hit them. The PCs have a compromised advantage. Spot checks to see and reckon incoming balista shots. Have them take damage every time they spend 3 move actions going in the same direction. Use the Fly:Average rules for the movement cost of turning, or vary it by Profession:Sailor skill check results.

If the PC ship goes through shallows to avoid the Empire ship, they may still get stuck, and party members' Strength checks could be needed to pull/lever across those spots.

Also the short range of summons spells are not an issue when you've got a balista. It would make sense to deliver fire elementals long rang in this way.

[HunterColt22]

i don't know if this will help or not, but it's something i just thought up. it's more of an idea for your players than for you.

they could throw chum in the water behind them, hoping that by the time it attracts giant aggressive sea monsters, the other ship will be sailing over that area.

All I could think of when reading this is Liam Neeson Screaming, "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!" Speaking of giant monsters though, the Shaman can always try and commune with his animal spirit at this point. Depending on what he chose anyway it might be at home in the sea and thus have a general idea on how to help evade capture. Also, mystical storm that pops up and boom ship wrecks them some where, d% to determine where they end up in your world and what shore.

[Palanan]

An option on the PCs' side would be to deploy barrels or other debris as a sort of desperation minefield. Or, if you're familiar with the story of Medea and Absyrtus, there could be other ways to delay pursuit. :smalleek:

And if the Empire has any way to affect the water ahead of the PCs' ship, why, oil does float on water, and with enough fire arrows sooner or later they'll set it aflame.

[jackattack]

These are caravels. Sailing ships with tall masts and massive sails and hundreds of yards of rigging and big rudders and heaving decks.

Sails will need to be raised, then trimmed. At least two PCs should be able to make STR checks every round to contribute.

Lines might be fouled. A PC might make climbing checks to get to them, then DEX or rope checks to clear them.

The rudder mechanism or a winch might get jammed. A PC with engineering or STR might be helpful.

Something on the deck might come loose (a barrel, an anchor, whatever) and slide around, putting the crew in danger. Someone should grab it and secure it.

Find small tasks and/or perils for the PCs to handle every round. Successes might confer a bonus to the ship's sailing roll, while critical failures might induce a penalty.

[Piggy Knowles]

You could set their ship on fire... that ought to make things interesting for them.

A composite greatbow with Far Shot going out ten range increments could fire a flaming arrow about half a mile (2600'). If the enemy has the bucks to spend on the distance enhancement, you could double that. Big penalty to the attack roll, and unless it's magical fire it might stretch incredulity that it doesn't go out over the distance, but fire enough of those and it should work.