[PF] Skeletons

[kabreras]

One thing i cant get when wanting to play a necromancer.

In the skeleton (and zombi) template pages it says that they drop all class levels so a human/dwarf/elf/ watever playable race will always be a 1HD skelly ?

Only actuals monsters, beasts and such have an interest to be made as undeads ?

Or am i missing something ?

[Starbuck_II]

One thing i cant get when wanting to play a necromancer.

In the skeleton (and zombi) template pages it says that they drop all class levels so a human/dwarf/elf/ watever playable race will always be a 1HD skelly ?

Only actuals monsters, beasts and such have an interest to be made as undeads ?

Or am i missing something ?

Yes, you only use Racial HD for Undead templates like Skeleton/zombie. But yeah, Lizardfolk, troglodytes, Bugbears, et with RHD are better.

Well, you can bypass that with Bloodhulks (made using Animate Dead spell from Monster Manul 4), they get a set amount of RD not based on creature's RHD.

[kabreras]

Ah well that make necromancers quite unusable in most campaigns (even evil ones)

[Stallion]

Uh. Only if you're using ONLY animate dead with humanoids. You're totally forgetting pretty much every other undead creature in the game. Not to mention the things that are actually USEFUL to zombify/skeletize.

[tyckspoon]

Ah well that make necromancers quite unusable in most campaigns (even evil ones)

Not really. It just means basic humanoid skeletons and zombies are only good for mook bodies. Which is.. what they've *always* been for. If you want a good beefy skelly/zombie, animate an Ogre. Or a Troll. Or some other variety of Giant. Or a pack of larger (ie, Riding/wartrained) Dogs or Wolves or Bears. Most adventurers have no trouble coming across things that make for nice undead pets, and that's without getting into the more interesting kinds of undead you can make with Create Undead instead of Animate Dead.

[kabreras]

Yes i speak of a normal campaign where most enemys are humanoids, not one where you can TP in a random jungle and hunt for your skellys hi level HD monsters.

[Ashtagon]

I'm pretty sure skeletons aren't the only form of undead a necromancer can create.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Yes i speak of a normal campaign where most enemys are humanoids, not one where you can TP in a random jungle and hunt for your skellys hi level HD monsters.

Do you mean a city campaign? Games where you only fight PHB races and other low HD humanoids are not the norm especially not beyond low levels when 1HD humanoids are no longer respectable mooks.

[kabreras]

Most of the games i play in i tend to fight humanoids with class levels.
Monsters are just for the filling and random encounters.

[Stallion]

Sounds like a case of limited mind set DM.

[lsfreak]

Sounds like a case of limited mind set DM.

Or one who simply likes humanoid-focused campaigns. I much prefer a campaign with enemies as primarily humanoids, undead, and maybe one or two others, with monsters reserved for weird and unexpected encounters. My players even requested I do that.

Ask your DM to homebrew some higher-powered skellies you can raise if you don't have access to other creatures. Or work with him to make your own monstrosities of stitched-together bodies that are stronger than standard skellies. If all else fails, there's the Animate Dread Warrior spell from Unapproachable East, but it's meant for making undead with PC levels of ability, and the XP cost reflects that.

[Doxkid]

Ah well that make necromancers quite unusable in most campaigns (even evil ones)

Normally there is a good mixture of different monsters and enemies, with occasional pockets of just one type. You are apparently not playing such a campaign, so YOU aren't in a normal campaign. That's why, you know, there are 5 monster manuals for 3.5 and almost every book introduces even more.

That isn't a bad thing mind you, but your team wont get to use some of the more unique combat tactics and fight some of the coolest/strangest enemies. And you, in particular, won't get access to the best corpses.

If it makes you feel better though, you dont NEED to beg and teleport if you are a wizard. Lesser Planar Binding is one spell level above Animate Dead and will let you call in outsiders to kill and reanimate.

[watchwood]

You could also just hit up zoos, pet stores, specialist importers, and the like to locate suitable creatures to animate.

[Dusk Eclipse]

There are other templates that are Skeletal looking undead; but not actual Skeleton (template), for example Dread Warriors raised with the Animate Dread Warrior spell (UE) are some of the best melee undeads a necromancer can get and are Skeletal-looking.

[kabreras]

This question was pathfinder related not 3.5.
In 3.5 so much is possible to make it work better... PF possiblities are smallers...

[CTrees]

This question was pathfinder related not 3.5.
In 3.5 so much is possible to make it work better... PF possiblities are smallers...

Correct-PF has not given necromancers nearly the amount of love 3.5 did. That said, Create (Greater) Undead certainly helps. Also the Skeletal Summoning feat can help for flavor, if not power. Couple other options are out there, like the undead companion granted to Undead Lord clerics, but... at this time you can't rely on it as a PC's primary tactic without aome ability to get beefier corpses (black market sales) and expect to be overly powerful. Honestly my suggestion would be to take leadership and get permission to have your cohort and followers be appropriately leveled undead, but that's into houseruling.

[deuxhero]

On PF undead templates, remember that (intentionally or not) the PF versions keep fast healing and SLAs by RAW and Ectoplasmic creatures explicitly keep special attacks (but can't be created).

[Starbuck_II]

This question was pathfinder related not 3.5.
In 3.5 so much is possible to make it work better... PF possiblities are smallers...

Remember Skeletons keep all proficiencies they had in life.

So animate some Gunslingers for Skeletons with gun proficiency. Improves hitting ability. Or some exotic weapon wielders for exotidc weapon Skeletons.

And Skeletons have official variants that can be made by PCs:
Bloody Skeleton (fasting healing, only destroyed by positive energy and how many enemies use that?)
So you never permanetly lose them.
Burning Skeletons: Deal fire damage.