Need Ideas for a gish build with Wu Jen

[MulletMonk]

Hey there I'm working on a character for a gladiator arena. Starting level six, solo combat might come up so I need a bit of survivability right off the bat, I love the flavor of the Wu Jen so an exotic flavored melee class might be good.

I've made straight casters before but never a gish so any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Jade Phoenix Mage from the Tome of Battle is definitely a flavorful gish that's fairly powerful to boot.

[MulletMonk]

Interesting! What sorts of feats would be good for this?

[Psyren]

Jade Phoenix Mage from the Tome of Battle is definitely a flavorful gish that's fairly powerful to boot.

This - and not only is there fluff synergy, you get plenty of crunch synergy as well. e.g. Body Outside Body + maneuvers, or Emerald Immolation + Transcend Mortality.

[mamothpriest]

these aren't very imaginative feat options but:

-improved initiative: nice since you're gonna have the reroll
-Knowledge devotion (Complete champion): nice because int is a priority and I believe wu jen gets all knowledges as class skills
-practiced spellcaster (complete arcane): to cover for some lost caster levels
-combat casting (PHB): if you ever decide to cast in melee
-extend spell (PHB): if you focus on buff spells, this is pretty much a must have
-persistent spell (Complete arcane): again, great for buff spells, but that spell level adjustment is rather nasty if you have no way to reduce it
-Power attack (PHB): come on, you didn't need me to mention this one :smalltongue:
-arcane strike (Complete Warrior): burn spell slots to add a bonus to attack and damage

[Dusk Eclipse]

Are you aware that at level 6 most gish build haven't hit their stride right? If you can I suggest going Duskblade or even psychic warrior instead of Wu-Jen.

But if you are dead set on Wu-Jen gish Wu-Jen 4/Warblade 2 would give you BAB 4, maneuvers up to second level (Wall of blades is an awesome counter), Punishing stance for extra damage and level two spells. Alter Self into a Trogoldyte is pretty cool as it gives you some nice natural armour, mirror image to lay another defensive layer and possibly Fist of stone for the tasty +6 Str and a natural slam attack.

[Ezekiul]

Are you looking to be an all day buffer (persist spell + metamagic reducers) or a swift action weapon buffer? Maybe do some sort of monk or unarmed swordsage/wu jen/jade phoenix mage that imbues fists with a spell metamagiced with born of three thunders (Comp Arc) and quick recovery ( LoM 181) for some thundermonk goodness.

[Acathala]

these aren't very imaginative feat options but:

-improved initiative: nice since you're gonna have the reroll
-Knowledge devotion (Complete champion): nice because int is a priority and I believe wu jen gets all knowledges as class skills
-practiced spellcaster (complete arcane): to cover for some lost caster levels
-combat casting (PHB): if you ever decide to cast in melee
-extend spell (PHB): if you focus on buff spells, this is pretty much a must have
-persistent spell (Complete arcane): again, great for buff spells, but that spell level adjustment is rather nasty if you have no way to reduce it
-Power attack (PHB): come on, you didn't need me to mention this one :smalltongue:
-arcane strike (Complete Warrior): burn spell slots to add a bonus to attack and damage

I would actually argue Skill focus Concentrate is better than Combat casting. Especially if he goes down the Diamond Mind route.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I would actually argue Skill focus Concentrate is better than Combat casting. Especially if he goes down the Diamond Mind route.

True while Combat Casting has a higher bonus, Skill focus is far more applicable; but Combat Casting tends to be a pre-requisite for many gishy things, the most important being Abjurant Champion.

[Psyren]

You could always take them both - they're untyped, so they stack, and you can never have too high a Concentration check imo (especially since you can't autofail on a 1.)

[Dusk Eclipse]

Two feats are a bit too much IMO, frankly I only ever take Combat casting as a pre-requisite. If you are a "standard-buffing" gish you cast most of your spells out of combat so casting while threatened is usually a non-issue (your non-buff spells should tend to be panic buttons like DDoor, or some BFC you can lay down before getting into the fray and that you only need to cast 1 per encounter, for example Solid Fog or Black Tentacles).

Having ways to quicken spells and thus eliminating the need of defensive casting is a solid option that is also available to gishes (Circlet of Rapid Casting, Metamatic rods, etc).

[MulletMonk]

Hmmm Quick recovery is an interesting feat, but I don't see it coming up that often.

Also this character will mostly fight in the arena where magic items are strictly prohibited. He also my not be allowed to come into the arena pre-buffed so swift enhancements are probably the way to go.

I rather like the Unarmed sword-sage angle for entry into the jade phoenix mage.

Any point to picking up spell sword levels for reduced ASF in heavier armor?

[Dusk Eclipse]

It has easy-ish pre-requisites and gives +1 Bab and +1 casting at first level, so I don'y see why not.

[gorfnab]

Wu-Jen 5/ Warblade 1/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Abjurant Champion 4/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8

Wu-Jen is a prepared caster which means if you go the Exalted route you could use Greater Luminous Armor spell + Shield spell + Abjurant Champion to boost your AC significantly.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Gorfnab's build is more or less what I would do. Just be mindful of the fact that your two biggest tricks--9th-level spells and Emerald Immolation--don't come online until 20th level, and thus this isn't recommended for lower levels above your bog-standard gish, but when you get those two together, the effects are astounding!

[ThiagoMartell]

+1 to gorfnab build
Wu Jen has such a gishy spell list, it fits perfectly.

[MulletMonk]

Would it be worth going Wu Jen 6 for the elemental mastery: Fire, stack it with the fire stance from jade phoenix mage, for some cheesy fire spell optimization?

[darksolitaire]

IMO stacking extra caster levels would not be very good. CL is mostly important for blasters, and your buffs probably last long enough without it. You'd also have to give up on either level of JPM or AC, both of which grant class features beyond simple numbers.

[MulletMonk]

Are their any tricks to get around the sword sages maneuver recovery mechanism? I like the flavor of the class with the unarmed alteration, but only using maneuvers once per encounter (without spending a hole round to refresh one) seams a bit steep.

[eggs]

There's the Adaptive Style feat, whose most common interpretation refreshes all maneuvers in a round.

It's still steep, but if grab a couple Crown of the White Raven-type items or maybe drop a Martial Study feat for White Raven Tactics, you can abuse the action economy to the point where the refresh functionally costs a swift action and 1 point of initiative.

[Psyren]

Are their any tricks to get around the sword sages maneuver recovery mechanism? I like the flavor of the class with the unarmed alteration, but only using maneuvers once per encounter (without spending a hole round to refresh one) seams a bit steep.

Adaptive Style arguably lets you do this. It's not great, but swapping out all your maneuvers for a full-round action is much better than only refreshing one as a full-round action.