Casting + Spiked Gauntlet = Yes/No?

[Diarmuid]

Simple and easy....can you cast spells with a hand that's wearing a spiked gauntlet?

[Andreaz]

Sure, why not?

[Kalirren]

Yeah, sure. You just can't cast with a hand that wears a locked gauntlet. The spikes on the outside of a spiked gauntlet should be immaterial.

A better question is why we have arcane spell failure instead of somatic spell failure.

[Diarmuid]

Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component

My group has always had difficulty determining what the right interpretation of "free hand" means.

Some think that wearing a light shield allows you to cast with that hand because you can hold something in the hand, like a torch. Others think that simply being able to open/close your hand is not enough and that the shield (or perhaps the gauntlet) would prevent you from being able to make the intricate gestures required for spellcasting.

[TuggyNE]

My group has always had difficulty determining what the right interpretation of "free hand" means.

Some think that wearing a light shield allows you to cast with that hand because you can hold something in the hand, like a torch. Others think that simply being able to open/close your hand is not enough and that the shield (or perhaps the gauntlet) would prevent you from being able to make the intricate gestures required for spellcasting.

Arguably the ASF the shield and gauntlet impose is a sufficient representation of the difficulty of making those intricate gestures.

[Diarmuid]

I dont see an ASF value for spiked gauntlets, and will take that at face value.

In theory that same ASF for a shield is in place whether you're using that hand, or the other hand which could be completely empty. Our quandary is whether you can have a weapon in 1 hand, a buckler and/or light shield in the other hand and still be able to cast spells. Let's assume a cleric for this example to take ASF out of the equation and just look at being able to meet the requirements for Somatic components.

[Kalirren]

My group has historically allowed casters to cast spells with S components with buckler and weapon, but not light shield and weapon, on the basis of this line of description:



Shield, Light, Wooden or Steel

You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield’s weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.

as distinguished from this line:



Buckler

This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so[...and] you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.

We took that as the distinguishment between hand free and hand not free.

[Diarmuid]

Thats similarly been one of the rulings we've used in the past. At this point, each DM seems to have his/her own interpretation, some of them have some overlap....but I'd like to get us onto a single encompassing rule and was hoping there was some odd bit of Rules somewhere that I was missing that might clear it up.

[Kalirren]

I don't think there are any more precise rules text than what we've already cited. I agree that some clarification in the Somatic text along the lines of "your hand is free if it would otherwise be capable of wielding a weapon" would be nice.

For what it's worth, it has rarely mattered to us anyway. In my experience, arcane casters shun shields, lower-level clerics typically run around with heavy shields and undrawn weapons, and higher-level clerics get monk's belts and don't have worry about shields at all.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Yeah, sure. You just can't cast with a hand that wears a locked gauntlet. The spikes on the outside of a spiked gauntlet should be immaterial.

A better question is why we have arcane spell failure instead of somatic spell failure.

Arcane somatic gestures are, well, arcane. While divine somatic gestures are largely ceremonial since its the caster's faith or connection with the divine that's actually producing the magic, rather than how he twitches his fingers just so.

At least that's how I've always pictured it.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Arcane somatic gestures are, well, arcane. While divine somatic gestures are largely ceremonial since its the caster's faith or connection with the divine that's actually producing the magic, rather than how he twitches his fingers just so.

At least that's how I've always pictured it.

This, wizards need to make a precise gesture and say the right words, clerics just need to point in the general direction and shout holy things.