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B. Dandelion

2012-09-10, 05:27 PM

So Vaarsuvius and Blackwing have been separated from the Order.

Sabine has been driven off from the Guild, Malack has been separated and Qarr's gone off on his own.

Anybody else suspect that when Team Evil shows up, they'll wind up getting split up too?

What I think would be fun is if the Order, the LG, and TE are all split into different groups, who then start running into each other and interacting in wildly different ways. I mean, consider:

Xykon and Redcloak don't like or trust each other. Xykon in particular seems to have some suspicion about the ritual. The Linear Guild wants to get their hands on that same ritual, and Tarquin is both extremely intuitive and highly manipulative. I think he could work with that mistrust, if he got one of them alone. For example he could offer to let the arcane casters of the LG look over Xykon's half of the ritual to spot any treachery -- and while my first thought was that Xykon'd be far too smart to fall for that, when I dwell on longer I start to think it might actually be the smarter thing to do anyway. Knowing half of the ritual is useless, and Redcloak's not about to turn over his, so it's a minimal risk to show the LG something they can't use. But if Redcloak were screwing Xykon over, then letting the LG reveal that would be of enormous benefit to Xykon.

Redcloak and the Order have been peripherally aware of each other for ages, but have not to date had any sort of significant interaction. Wouldn't it be nice if that changed? How close of a fight do you think RC v the Order sans Vaarsuvius would be?

The Monster in the Darkness has no personal stake in the fight at all. He's teamed up with people who don't really treat him particularly well and are significantly more evil than he himself is comfortable with being. When I think about how that compares to Malack's situation, I can't help but think it'd be amusing to have them run in with each other.

Alternately, or perhaps additionally, Monster-san might actually recognize Vaarsuvius and would probably be dying to know if O-chul is all right.

Malack and Redcloak might potentially be interesting too, not the least because there would probably be some intentional compare-and-contrast to Malack's interactions with Durkon.

Are there any cross-team interactions you'd like to see? What do you think would happen?

Incom

2012-09-10, 07:22 PM

Malack-MITD (thanks to your post--:mitd: "So that's how I learned that people aren't your friends just because they say they are")

Malack-V (one's the cleric of a death god, the other is trying to atone for genocide. Together, they fight crime)

Elan-MITD (being the respective savants of their teams, MITD moreso)

Tarquin-Redcloak (two different takes on ends justifying means)

V-Redcloak (the whole racism and genocide thing)

Malack-Xykon (gee, if the "Malack is a vampire" theory holds true, resisting Energy Drain would be a convenient time to reveal it--assuming Energy Drain works that way)

Just a few possibilities.

Gift Jeraff

2012-09-10, 08:01 PM

Redcloak & Tarquin - The two share tips on tyrannical dictatorships, start bonding, and eventually Redcloak becomes Tarquin's first husband.

Xykon & Nale - Xykon forms a connection with Nale since he was also a sorcerer whose methods were criticized by established villains when he was starting off. Nale sees that Xykon is the Evil father he always wanted and Xykon's heart grew three sizes that day. Unfortunately, three times zero is still zero.

JCAll

2012-09-10, 10:17 PM

Well, Nale originally worked for Xykon. And probably still does as far as Xykon is concerned. I imagine any incounter between the Guild and Team Evil would be "Oh, hey, it's you guys. I hope you don't expect to get payed for all the time you were gone. Get your asses back to work!"

Cranica

2012-09-10, 11:06 PM

Redcloak & Tarquin - The two share tips on tyrannical dictatorships, start bonding, and eventually Redcloak becomes Tarquin's first husband.

And thus were born a thousand terrifyingly diabolical fanfics.

SaintRidley

2012-09-10, 11:41 PM

Redcloak and the Order have been peripherally aware of each other for ages, but have not to date had any sort of significant interaction. Wouldn't it be nice if that changed? How close of a fight do you think RC v the Order sans Vaarsuvius would be?

:redcloak: Implosion

Mike Havran

2012-09-11, 04:22 AM

Redcloak - Tarquin+Zz'dtri. Redcloak finally finds a possibility of casting the Ritual without Xykon and starts thinking about pulling one over the lich.

Malack - Vaarsuvius. There's no better advisor in V's current state than an experienced cleric of a Death god. Atonement, maybe?

Redcloak - Order. That would be a very interesting one, boiling down to what they know about each other. To Redcloak, Order are a bunch of adventurers that have some personal issue with Xykon (Redcloak may or may not heard Roy in the dungeon, or may or may not forgot it). To the Order, Redcloak is a reasonably powerful lackey of Xykon who got to rule Azure City for his services. All in all, none of them are trigger-happy and have no special reason to start blasting away. Should they meet I don't think it will result in a fight.

Morty

2012-09-11, 09:02 AM

I think it would be very interesting if Redcloak and Order met and I think it's very likely to happen sooner or later, but it's hard to tell if it would happen now. It's not impossible, since as you said the two teams have already been divided, so the same may happen to Team Evil. At some point, the Order is bound to find out what the real reason behind this whole mess is - right now they think it's all about Xykon's quest for world dominance.

As for Redcloak enlisting the aid of another arcane spellcaster for the arcane part of the ritual - I'm not so sure about that. Redcloak is bound to Xykon in more ways than just needing him for the ritual. Finding someone else to help with moving the gate is the easy part; preventing Xykon from destroying him for his insolence is the hard part.

B. Dandelion

2012-09-11, 04:28 PM

Well to me the main big problem in any "Redcloak breaks it off with Xykon" scenario is that it's been a major plot point that can't do it psychologically, because he's done so many horrible things in the name of preserving the alliance that to break it off would make all the earlier sacrifices meaningless.

The phylactery-swapping incident may have weakened that claim a little. If Xykon gets destroyed again and sent back into the phylactery for regeneration, Redcloak's deception is going to become obvious in a hurry, and it's hard to see that playing out in a way that ends with the alliance still intact. That applies whether or not they've successfully carried out the Plan yet. Since I don't think Redcloak overlooked that possibility himself, that tells me that ultimately he prioritized the ability to destroy Xykon through the phylactery above the preservation of their alliance, even if that priority might feasibly set the Plan back to stage one. The circumstances are not particularly likely from Redcloak's point of view, but they do exist -- as they had happened once already.

Redcloak still won't turn on Xykon openly while the lich is still intact. The only condition which could make swapping sides a possibility is if Xykon's destroyed first.

So I guess all Tarquin has to do is agree to get rid of Xykon and then somehow manage to actually do it. Piece of cake, right? Although that would be an interesting scenario under which the Linear Guild would have a motive to ally with the Order of the Stick against Xykon.

Mike Havran

2012-09-11, 05:06 PM

So I guess all Tarquin has to do is agree to get rid of Xykon and then somehow manage to actually do it. Piece of cake, right?

Well, if there was a collision between Xykon (+ mind-dominated MiTD) and Redcloak+Tarquin+Zz'dtri+Malack (and possibly also + the rest of Tarquin's team), I wouldn't bet on the lich. But it would be heck of a fight :smallsmile:

konradknox

2012-09-11, 07:37 PM

Redcloak will destroy the phylactery when OotS agrees to help him execute a modified version of the Plan without involving the Snarl.
Redcloak will convince OotS in the need of changing the fate of the goblinoid race, by letting Durkon borrow the Crimson Mantle and see the Vision.

They will work together, and somehow convince the Gods to allow Dark One into the Pantheon and include goblins as a fairly treated race, as life migrates to the new World inside the World, closing the cycle of this world, due to IFCC's involvement in destruction of the current reality.

We all seem to forget the Oracle's main prediction. One made to Elan.
How will this story end?
In a happy ending.

Ellye

2012-09-11, 08:11 PM

So I guess all Tarquin has to do is agree to get rid of Xykon and then somehow manage to actually do it. Piece of cake, right? Although that would be an interesting scenario under which the Linear Guild would have a motive to ally with the Order of the Stick against Xykon.Xykon is really, really powerful, but we (and, most importantly, Redcloak) already know he's not invincible - he already got defeated twice (after turning into a Lich, plus at least once before) in the story so far.

The first time was "cheap" and probably doesn't really count, but the second time shouldn't be ignored - Xykon was defeated by the ghost of Soon and the Sapphire Guard, opponents that likely weren't of extremely high level or anything. They just were quite optimized at fighting against Xykon's usual strategies, and I do believe both Redcloak and Tarquin are great at making plans and preparations, so they could reach a similar advantage.

-----

Anyway, what I really would like to see is some chatter between Redcloak and V. They might have something to talk, after that attack on Xykon's tower and all. I just don't know how it wouldn't end in a fight.

B. Dandelion

2012-09-11, 08:25 PM

Well, if there was a collision between Xykon (+ mind-dominated MiTD) and Redcloak+Tarquin+Zz'dtri+Malack (and possibly also + the rest of Tarquin's team), I wouldn't bet on the lich. But it would be heck of a fight :smallsmile:

-Redcloak.

The only condition acceptable for him to openly betray Xykon is for Xykon's defeat to have already happened, not to potentially happen. For so long as the lich is going along with the Plan, Redcloak helping Tarquin to defeat Xykon would be open defiance at minimal possible gain for maximum possible risk. Even if the odds were against failure it's not an appealing prospect.

At most Redcloak would arrange to be elsewhere when the fight happened, assisting neither side.

Emperordaniel

2012-09-11, 10:14 PM

We all seem to forget the Oracle's main prediction. One made to Elan.
How will this story end?
In a happy ending.

A happy ending for Elan. Other characters, it's not confirmed.

Morty

2012-09-12, 07:10 AM

The first time was "cheap" and probably doesn't really count, but the second time shouldn't be ignored - Xykon was defeated by the ghost of Soon and the Sapphire Guard, opponents that likely weren't of extremely high level or anything. They just were quite optimized at fighting against Xykon's usual strategies, and I do believe both Redcloak and Tarquin are great at making plans and preparations, so they could reach a similar advantage.

Actually, I think it's very likely that Soon was epic level himself - he was in the same party as Dorukan, who we know was epic before his death. We don't know his exact level in comparison to Xykon's, of course, but it's possible that being a Ghost Martyr made him even more powerful than he had been in life - the intangibility definetly helped.

As for a meeting between Redcloak and the Order... while some of the might believe him about the origins of the Plan and agree that something needs to be done, they are not going to approve of a whole lot of the things he's done to accomplish it.

Kish

2012-09-12, 07:50 AM

BaronOfHell

2012-09-12, 09:39 AM

There was also the incident with the silver dragon.

RustyVenture

2012-09-12, 12:58 PM

When I started reading the first post, I couldn't help but picture something like a hallway scene from Scooby Doo. Everyone is running back and forth across the hall, bumping into one another before comically running away through a different door.

zimmerwald1915

2012-09-12, 02:05 PM

Anyway, what I really would like to see is some chatter between Redcloak and V. They might have something to talk, after that attack on Xykon's tower and all. I just don't know how it wouldn't end in a fight.
Why would V having attacked Xykon's tower give Redcloak a reason to say anything to V but "Implosion"?

konradknox

2012-09-12, 02:39 PM

A happy ending for Elan. Other characters, it's not confirmed.

A happy ending for Elan means a happy ending for all his friends.
The bard would be sad if someone suffered a sad ending.

Ellye

2012-09-12, 02:39 PM

Emperordaniel

2012-09-12, 05:46 PM

A happy ending for Elan means a happy ending for all his friends.
The bard would be sad if someone suffered a sad ending.

Not necessarily; he might be sad if, say, Roy or Durkon died, but that doesn't preclude a happy ending, especially if it happens a while before the comic ends (and it's been all but confirmed that Durkon will die sometime relatively soon anyways). I believe bittersweet endings could count as a happy ending of a sort, depending on which individual character in the story you ask.

The only one besides Elan whose well-being is practically guaranteed by the "happy ending" prophecy is Haley. :haley:

ThePhantasm

2012-09-12, 08:08 PM

Oh, I dind't mean to say that Soon himself wasn't Epic Level - but I have the feeling that he isn't of a higher or equal level to Xykon. And his fellow ghosts were probably mid level at best.

Of course, that's just a gut feeling.

He was soundly kicking the asses of Xykon and Redcloak combined... so I don't understand that gut feeling.

B. Dandelion

2012-09-12, 08:41 PM

The bard would be sad if someone suffered a sad ending.

Oh, I don't know about that. For Xykon, not taking over the world would be a sad ending. Elan gets a happy ending means Elan will be happy with the ending. We in the audience may or may not agree with Elan's definition of "happy", any more than Roy did for Durkon's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html).

There probably will be some satisfactory resolution to the goblin plotline, but that doesn't mean Redcloak and/or the Dark One will necessarily like it. Sure, if all they cared about was the suffering of the poor goblin people, they might be content with it, but we have motive to question that assumption. For all I know, the Dark One could be the main thing standing in the way of a happy goblin resolution.

(I don't mean he is, I mean I don't know.)

Finagle

2012-09-13, 03:28 PM

A happy ending for Elan. Other characters, it's not confirmed.

:amused:

Yeah, for everyone else, it's an extra fifty bucks.

:biggrin:

Kalrany

2012-09-13, 06:35 PM

...
Malack-V (one's the cleric of a death god, the other is trying to atone for genocide. Together, they fight crime)...

Was I the only one who thought of the "whose line is it anyway" skit (unlikely roommates) with that one? I could help but start giggling when I read that. :smallbiggrin: Thanks for that!

Sorator

2012-09-14, 12:31 AM

Hm. As much as I'd like to speculate, I keep thinking about lines (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThirdLineSomeWaiting) and waiting (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FourLinesAllWaiting). If everyone runs into the pyramid and gets split up, we'll be here a looong time. Which is fine for the end product (and it's not like it hasn't happened before), but would suck in the meantime.

IW Judicator

2012-09-15, 04:13 PM

Malack and Xykon encounter one another. They have a disagreement over how and why someone employees the undead as minions and have an 'Undead-Off', raising Zombies, Mummies, Wrights and what have you from the Draketooth corpses until they run out of bodies. And the rest is history. :smalltongue:

Lord Ensifer

2012-09-15, 04:48 PM

I think with all three teams in one spot, there's some amazing potential for dialogue. Anyone good talking it out with Redcloak would be illuminating, given his thoughts of rebellion against Xykon, and Qarr maliciously telling the OOTS about V's Familicide would be a great scene. Any pair who are alike or foils philosophically would be great to face off.

Also, a fight between MITD and Elan would be amazing. It would either be epicly intense (Elan as a dashing swordsman vs MITD at full potential) or hilariously anticlimactic.

Sorator

2012-09-15, 06:23 PM