OA Shamans Animal Companions?

[silverwolfer]

So if we skip over the idea, that it was a mistake not to make it into a druid companion , what can actually be done with this thing? Does it become a familer without abilities, or just do you think it is an item that was added for flavor, not strength?

[Kelb_Panthera]

So if we skip over the idea, that it was a mistake not to make it into a druid companion , what can actually be done with this thing? Does it become a familer without abilities, or just do you think it is an item that was added for flavor, not strength?

At the time, it was mechanically identical to the druid feature of the same name. Then 3.0 became 3.5 and the druids AC changed into what it is now.

The most reasonable course is to do the same for the shaman.

Barring that, the feature does nothing at all, because the spell it references as its effect doesn't exist anymore.

[Gwendol]

The OA supplement got a 3.5 revision published in Dragon in which the OA shaman AC is identical to the druid AC.

[silverwolfer]

Um....no it didint, or it was a different issue, only thing that changed was that it got unarmed damage improvement.

[Urpriest]

If it's not a Druid companion, then in order to gain it you'd need to cast Animal Friendship, which doesn't exist anymore. So I agree with Kelb, it doesn't exist.

[silverwolfer]

hmm true, but , having looked it over...would saying it grants *druid* progression, just not all the stat increases and such?

[Alaris]

hmm true, but , having looked it over...would saying it grants *druid* progression, just not all the stat increases and such?

Err, no. Honestly, just change it to the Druid Animal Companion of 3.5. Back in 3.0 (which is what Oriental Adventurers is), the Druid had the EXACT SAME TYPE OF ANIMAL COMPANION AS THE SHAMAN OF THAT TIME.

EDIT: Umm, I mean, you could alter it to be slightly different in features, since you apparently want a different flavor from the Druid AC... but... honestly, there's not much point in my opinion.

[eggs]

The different implementations I could see are:

Uncritical RAW: No Animal Friendship means no companion. It seems like a stretch to assume this was the intent of the Dragon Magazine update, without even a mention.
Original Flavor: Animal Friendship Animal Companion was what the class was designed/balanced with, so maintain it despite AF getting the axe in the 3.5 update. This is problematic for all the reasons that 3.0 Animal companions were: they're extremely exploitable, annoying to use and drastically powered up by the merging of Beast and Animal types.
Parallel update: The Shaman and Druid's ACs were identical in 3.0; keep them identical in 3.5. The closest thing to a downside is that the Shaman's spell list plays about as nicely with Share Spells on its companion as the Druid's spell list does with the companion's Animal type.


You could throw some spinoffs in there, but I don't see why: the parallel update is easiest, is the least problematic and it seems to go the least against designer intent (either dropping the companion or reimplementing Animal Friendship without mentioning either seems far more unlikely than overlooking a difference in identically-titled class features).

Unless you're dropping the stat increases from the Druid's AC too, I don't see the point of dropping them for the Shaman. Their companions were identical.

[Urpriest]

Look, on a certain level I see what silverwolfer is arguing: by strict RAW the OA Shaman does gain an animal companion class feature at first level, which gives 2HD of companions. However, it explicitly says these are companions gained from casting Animal Friendship, so I really don't think there is a case to be made that they're somehow independent and the OA Shaman is stuck with just a 2HD companion forever.

[silverwolfer]

As a level 1 = 2 hd, but I belive the section says can never be higher then the player in HD, so level 3 player, could have a 3 hd animal?

[Urpriest]

As a level 1 = 2 hd, but I belive the section says can never be higher then the player in HD, so level 3 player, could have a 3 hd animal?

According to what? Are you asking about how the Animal Friendship spell works?

[silverwolfer]

(While the shaman is 1st level, this particular animal is loyal
enough to stay with him, even though an adventuring shaman
usually can only maintain animal friends whose Hit Dice total up
to his level.)


Is this a backhanded way to say, shamans are not stuck with a 2 hd animal?

[LeshLush]

Do you guys remember when the 3.0 Animal Domain had Animal Friendship on its spell list? They didn't make a very big deal about it, but you could build clerics with animal companions just as strong as a druid's. I remember the first time I realized this, and the cleric of Obad-Hai that was immediately rolled up. It was one of the changes in the 3.5 revision that is least talked about, but that broke my heart the most.

[Urpriest]

(While the shaman is 1st level, this particular animal is loyal
enough to stay with him, even though an adventuring shaman
usually can only maintain animal friends whose Hit Dice total up
to his level.)


Is this a backhanded way to say, shamans are not stuck with a 2 hd animal?

No, that doesn't work. It still doesn't give any method of acquiring more/different animal companions, even if it indicates the limit increases.

Also, you're phrasing that very oddly. "Is this a backhanded way to say" implies you're talking about RAI. But RAI is clear: OA Shamans are a 3.0 class, and the lack of an update to Animal Companion one way or another is an oversight. If you were talking about RAW, I find it odd that you used that phrasing.

[silverwolfer]

@Leash , maybe a rod of many wonders would help?

@ Ur

What I meant by backhand, I mean by saying it is muddled way of saying that a level one can have 2hd, despite what the spells says, therefore can a Level 3 shaman use a creatures of 3 HD's. Following the logic of the previous () area.

[Coidzor]

Sounds more like an exception for the setup at 1st level from how it's been discussed so far.

[Urpriest]

@ Ur

What I meant by backhand, I mean by saying it is muddled way of saying that a level one can have 2hd, despite what the spells says, therefore can a Level 3 shaman use a creatures of 3 HD's. Following the logic of the previous () area.

That...doesn't answer my question. "Muddled" still makes it sound like you're talking about intent. Are you asking about the intent of the rules, or about their literal meaning?

[Felhammer]

You're using a 3.0 book in 3.5. You have to look at everything critically to discern the correct course of action. The Druid had a spell that gave her an animal companion. The Shaman uses the same spell to achieve the same result. Animal Friendship was removed from the game and replaced by a Druid's Animal Companion. The Shaman should receive the same update.

This isn't hard people. Stop over analyzing the issue.

[Gwendol]

Quite right that the animal companion isn't mentioned in the dragon issue, guess my memory played me a trick there. Still, the OA shaman got the same kind of animal companion as the 3.0 druid, and following the same logic, should get an animal companion identical to that of a druid of the same level.

Remember that in OA there are no druids nor clerics, and that the OA shaman gains abilities (and spells) from those two classes combined.

[Vortenger]

If you're trying to maintain the unique flavor of a Shaman's companion acquisition, why not ask the DM to use Animal Friendship as indicated? Versions of the spell can be google'd easily enough.

It does seem easiest just to convert it to be the same as the druid's AC, though, if simplicity is what you're after.

[NeedsAnswersNao]

3.0 is compatible with 3.5

It says "The shaman can also cast animal friendship in play." So its ability works even if the spell isn't supposed to exist.

[eggs]

It says "The shaman can also cast animal friendship in play." So its ability works even if the spell isn't supposed to exist.If the 3.5 update didn't modify the 3.0 contents, Egoists would still learn to make people's heads pop while lifting weights.