3.5 Core and FR Character

[Traken]

Hey folks. I was hoping I might be able to get some suggestions/help.

My old D&D group is looking to reform after many years of not getting together, and I'm trying to figure out what class to go with. Originally, I'd been planning to go with a Dragon Shaman or Dragonfire Adept (gee... I wonder if I like dragons. lol), but just recently the DM said we'd be limited to the Core Rulebooks and Forgotten Realms materials. Unless I'm mistaken, that puts quite the kabash on my plans, and I need to figure out another build to go with.

Essentially, I'm just trying to figure out a fun class that I can goof around with, and potentially either deal a decent chunk of damage or perform a support role.

I know that's rather vague, and I'm sorry about that, but I'm so out of practice, I don't remember half of what's available.

Thanks much for the help.

[Garagos]

Can you tell us what the other players are making or do you not know?

[Traken]

Can you tell us what the other players are making or do you not know?

Unfortunately, I'm not sure yet. We'll be likely meeting up this weekend to roll everything out. I do know we'll be starting at level 4 and there won't be any evil characters, but that's about it. My wife will be joining us for the first time, and I think she wanted to play a druid, but she's never played before, so I haven't really taken it into account.

Sorry about that.

[Garagos]

And when you say Core only is it just PHB/DMG/MM1, or are you allowed anything like the Complete X series or PHB2?

[Traken]

And when you say Core only is it just PHB/DMG/MM1, or are you allowed anything like the Complete X series or PHB2?

I asked him the same question, but am waiting on clarification. I'm assuming he means just versions 1, but I know in the past we had access to things like Tome and Blood. Unfortunately, he's being somewhat vague right now. I'll update when I get a reply.

EDIT: Well, it turns out "core" is a little broader than I thought he meant. He's happy so long as we just stick with WotC material, and FR races, so I have a feeling I'll likely wind up going the DS or DFA route. Sorry to have wasted time.

[Orsen]

No time wasted. I would suggest doing DFA, because Dragon Shaman really starts to feel blah by level six. They've got a couple of nice abilities and the aura's can be helpful but there's not really that significant. DFA can be a much more dynamic character by using things like metabreath feats(from my experience of DMing both classes).
EDIT: If this is your wife's first time playing 3.5 (which I think is what I understood) I would also suggest helping her make her Druid using the Shapeshifter ACF from PH II. It cuts down on about two thirds of the Druids book keeping and is way simpler to use than wildshape.

[Snowbluff]

A third option for a breath weapon fighter is the Binder from Tome of Magic (if he'll allow it).

Bind Amun for a breath attack every 5 rounds for 1d6 per Binding level.

[HunterColt22]

A third option for a breath weapon fighter is the Binder from Tome of Magic (if he'll allow it).

Bind Amun for a breath attack every 5 rounds for 1d6 per Binding level.

Minus the fact I think he is going for the other two for a shorter recharge time on the breathweapon. Isn't there also some debate about meta breath feats being applied to DFA's because it doesn't measure in rounds, it just kind of goes like the Energizer Bunny? Just a thought to consider if your DM is thinking along those lines also. Also while alter shape does help keep down on the book keeping, why not just go Shape changing ranger? Far less spells to book keep, loose combat styles, can only shape change into small and medium animals, and you can move a bit further ala barb. but you still get a feel for how a druid can play for later use if she wants more and a bigger pile of note books beside her.

[TheTick]

EDIT: Well, it turns out "core" is a little broader than I thought he meant. He's happy so long as we just stick with WotC material, and FR races, so I have a feeling I'll likely wind up going the DS or DFA route. Sorry to have wasted time.

;) Physician, heal thyself.

[TheTick]

Aww, you deleted it, now my post doesn't make sense.

[Traken]

EDIT: If this is your wife's first time playing 3.5 (which I think is what I understood) I would also suggest helping her make her Druid using the Shapeshifter ACF from PH II. It cuts down on about two thirds of the Druids book keeping and is way simpler to use than wildshape.

Thanks for the advice. I know nothing about druid really, and am so rusty, that I'll definitely let her know about that.


Minus the fact I think he is going for the other two for a shorter recharge time on the breathweapon. Isn't there also some debate about meta breath feats being applied to DFA's because it doesn't measure in rounds, it just kind of goes like the Energizer Bunny? Just a thought to consider if your DM is thinking along those lines also. Also while alter shape does help keep down on the book keeping, why not just go Shape changing ranger? Far less spells to book keep, loose combat styles, can only shape change into small and medium animals, and you can move a bit further ala barb. but you still get a feel for how a druid can play for later use if she wants more and a bigger pile of note books beside her.

Yeah, if I go DFA, it'll be a Dragonborn of Bahamut templated character, one for flavor, and two for a breath weapon that is counted in rounds, just to cover all the bases.



Aww, you deleted it, now my post doesn't make sense.

I deleted something? :|

[Snowbluff]

Minus the fact I think he is going for the other two for a shorter recharge time on the breathweapon.

Except the Binder's weapon is considerably more powerful than either weapon. Twice as powerful as the Shaman's, more so versus the DFA. Sure you don't get invocations, but you makes up for it with natural attacks and other binding factors. Such as factors.

[HunterColt22]

Except the Binder's weapon is considerably more powerful than either weapon. Twice as powerful as the Shaman's, more so versus the DFA. Sure you don't get invocations, but you makes up for it with natural attacks and other binding factors. Such as factors.

I don't know the binder specifics for that one since I have never played one or really read up on it fully to argue. What I can say is that DFA has fivefold breath which hurts, alot, plus they can also shape their breath to be a certain shape and type etc. Plus a bind needs to be refreshed daily from what little I have read on the class which is a gift and curse depending on how you are building him. Also what is the binder breath weapon? Is it a specific energy type, can it change daily, can you choose when you first make the bind? These are all question I ask because how binding works from what I understand, and what I know about the other two classes.

[Snowbluff]

I don't know the binder specifics for that one since I have never played one or really read up on it fully to argue. What I can say is that DFA has fivefold breath which hurts, alot, plus they can also shape their breath to be a certain shape and type etc. Plus a bind needs to be refreshed daily from what little I have read on the class which is a gift and curse depending on how you are building him. Also what is the binder breath weapon? Is it a specific energy type, can it change daily, can you choose when you first make the bind? These are all question I ask because how binding works from what I understand, and what I know about the other two classes.

Allow me to educate you then. :smallbiggrin:

The binding process involves a check (1d20+Cha+Binder level) versus the Vestige's Binding DC. If you fail, you merely get screwed in your contract. You still get the abilities, but the Vestiges gets to affect your personality.

Amon is (one of) the available breath weapons. It's a 10 feet/level (max 50) line of 1d6/level fire. If you can get a ruling, it says Fire Breath is the name of the ruling, so you might be able to allow metabreath to get the typed changed.

There is a later vestige that you get later that is similar, but it untyped damage. Orthos, with his whirlwind breath.

I had an easier time picking up Binding that other systems like Incarnum, due to better editing, etc. Binder is rather interesting, but I have not gotten to play it uet.

5fold is nice, but the caveats of being evil and dealing damage to yourself sounds like a rather big pain. :smallredface:

[Traken]

Not sure if he'd allow binding, or if I'd play it, but I'm definitely going to give it a read. Sounds interesting.

[HunterColt22]

Allow me to educate you then. :smallbiggrin:

The binding process involves a check (1d20+Cha+Binder level) versus the Vestige's Binding DC. If you fail, you merely get screwed in your contract. You still get the abilities, but the Vestiges gets to affect your personality.

Amon is (one of) the available breath weapons. It's a 10 feet/level (max 50) line of 1d6/level fire. If you can get a ruling, it says Fire Breath is the name of the ruling, so you might be able to allow metabreath to get the typed changed.

There is a later vestige that you get later that is similar, but it untyped damage. Orthos, with his whirlwind breath.

I had an easier time picking up Binding that other systems like Incarnum, due to better editing, etc. Binder is rather interesting, but I have not gotten to play it uet.

5fold is nice, but the caveats of being evil and dealing damage to yourself sounds like a rather big pain. :smallredface:

Thanks, however DFA still has a few more tricks then you are giving credit for I feel. Your breath weapon actually is bigger in the longer run than the binders, 30/60 vs a straight 50 max it seems, small, but something nice to think on. Also of note is that you do not have to be evil or good to use Five Fold or Bahamuts variant of the attack as well. Yes you do take more damage for doing so, but with CON being your biggest ability score as a DFA (If it is not you are doing something odd, and should be a warlock if you want inovcations then.) and on top of that a d8 hit die, the extra 80 damage at level twenty while annoying, is still something that you can easily mitigate. Also of note is that with DFA you can change your breath on the fly, while with binder, even if your DM is willing to allow it to change, is still fire type, at least for the first one, and thus is stuck for the whole day like that rather than a few rounds or so. Also in damage I can't argue, but again fire is the most resisted type and thus its damage output can go down pretty fast.

Both classes have their ups and downs it just depends on what he wants to do. Go DFA if you want to be your own person and love dragons, binder is more if you like having a spirit of some type hanging around and you want an extra person to talk to and make the DM act out.

[Randomguy]

You could try a Fighter/Sorcerer/Dragon disciple, to go with the dragony feel. Or maybe Bard/Dragon Disciple. It wouldn't be very powerful, but it would have some nice fluff, and you'd get high strength from dragon disciple, decent-ish combat ability and a bit of casting, which you could use for utility spells or to boost your combat capability.

There was an Iron Chef contest that used Dragon Disciple recently. You could go looking there for ideas.

[Mithril Leaf]

Thanks, however DFA still has a few more tricks then you are giving credit for I feel. Your breath weapon actually is bigger in the longer run than the binders, 30/60 vs a straight 50 max it seems, small, but something nice to think on. Also of note is that you do not have to be evil or good to use Five Fold or Bahamuts variant of the attack as well. Yes you do take more damage for doing so, but with CON being your biggest ability score as a DFA (If it is not you are doing something odd, and should be a warlock if you want inovcations then.) and on top of that a d8 hit die, the extra 80 damage at level twenty while annoying, is still something that you can easily mitigate. Also of note is that with DFA you can change your breath on the fly, while with binder, even if your DM is willing to allow it to change, is still fire type, at least for the first one, and thus is stuck for the whole day like that rather than a few rounds or so. Also in damage I can't argue, but again fire is the most resisted type and thus its damage output can go down pretty fast.

Both classes have their ups and downs it just depends on what he wants to do. Go DFA if you want to be your own person and love dragons, binder is more if you like having a spirit of some type hanging around and you want an extra person to talk to and make the DM act out.

On the other hand, binders are stronger overall, and have more versatility outside of blasting.

[Snowbluff]

Well, yeah. DFA has some nice tricks. Binder can summon though.

I like warlocks as well. Warlocks are bauss. They have the best tricks.

Also, lol at roleplaying apparent schizophrenia. :smallbiggrin: